Trump Rally and Possible Shooting or Explosions?

[DMac]

When did someone with any authority to do something about it see the shooter? How much time elapsed from that moment to the shooter actually shooting? Minutes? How much time is enough to do something about it? If it was plenty of time, then it was botched, agreed? ALSO, how did the shooter get up there? Was that botched a well?

There's a video posted here somewhere that shows people in the crowd telling cops there's a guy up on the roof.
The cop goes up, gets a rifle pointed at him and lets go and drops to the ground. That's a long time, plenty of time to get the word to your snipers and tell them to get their eyes on that roof. Sure seems like it to me from my couch.

[Kismet]

MAGA moron Tom Fitton complains that Orange Fatso was in more danger than first thought because female agents on his protective detail were overweight and too short.

[njbill]

I don’t disagree with much of the above commentary, but to me, it still gets back to the fact that they should’ve had law enforcement on the roof well before Trump got near the stage.

Pretty simple.

Go to Dunkin’ Donuts.

Buy two big boxes of donuts.

Put them on the roof.

Put out a notice on all channels that there are free donuts on the roof.

[cradleandshoot]

I don’t disagree with much of the above commentary, but to me, it still gets back to the fact that they should’ve had law enforcement on the roof well before Trump got near the stage.

Pretty simple.

Go to Dunkin’ Donuts.

Buy two big boxes of donuts.

Put them on the roof.

Put out a notice on all channels that there are free donuts on the roof.

Betcha the press would have been on the roof first. You forgot about the coffee for dunking.

[njbill]

Well, if the cops and the press had been duking it out for donuts, no chance the shooter would’ve been able to get on that roof unnoticed.

[Seacoaster(1)]

MAGA moron Tom Fitton complains that Orange Fatso was in more danger than first thought because female agents on his protective detail were overweight and too short.

Right, the “DEI hires.” We just need well-muscled white dudes, like Steroid Tom.

[youthathletics]

The pro DEI leader of the SS now argues on national TV , that she didn’t want CAT snipers on a slanted roof. Yet, the very snipers that took out the 20 year old killer gunman were on stationed on slanted roof.

[a fan]

The pro DEI leader of the SS now argues on national TV , that she didn’t want CAT snipers on a slanted roof. Yet, the very snipers that took out the 20 year old killer gunman were on stationed on slanted roof.

Want to check the scoreboard for protecting Presidents when the White Guys were in charge, YA?

Your critique is warranted. I know you're trying for a bit of humor here, but leave the DEI out. Pretty please.

[old salt]

Yeah, I know, bloviating, lying, and self aggrandizing, but seriously, that's where I see this crashing down...

As to Salty's "not a mass shooting"...8 shots in a mere seconds, one dead, two injured, and only through the marksmanship of the counter sniper was this not many more dead.

Typical objective analysis. The gunman targeted Trump. If it was a mass shooting, he had time to get off more shots.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Yeah, I know, bloviating, lying, and self aggrandizing, but seriously, that's where I see this crashing down...

As to Salty's "not a mass shooting"...8 shots in a mere seconds, one dead, two injured, and only through the marksmanship of the counter sniper was this not many more dead.

Typical objective analysis. The gunman targeted Trump. If it was a mass shooting, he had time to get off more shots.

True, he could have killed a lot more people if that was his objective. But own your analysis shows just how bad things are.

The gunman targeted Trump and a targeted assassination turned into a mass shooting in seconds because of the gun and ammo and the situation.

The gunman didn't care about what was behind his target. A targeted assassination became a mass shooting.

[old salt]

It depends on how you define a mass shooting. Was his objective to kill as many people as possible or to eliminate Trump ?

Re oversight of rooftops, there is a water tower with a railed walkway that could be used by a 2 man overwatch counter-sniper team with a clear view of numerous rooftops, including the one used by the shooter.

[Kismet]

It depends on how you define a mass shooting. Was his objective to kill as many people as possible or to eliminate Trump ?

Re oversight of rooftops, there is a water tower with a railed walkway that could be used by a 2 man overwatch counter-sniper team with a clear view of numerous rooftops, including the one used by the shooter.

Don't think the problem was locations for sniper teams - one of the teams dispatched the shooter within minutes. The issue is why the elevated location of where the shooter was located wasn't properly covered.

In fact, one sniper team inside the building took pictures of him using a rangefinder before the shooting. They then subsequently lost him.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sniper-pic ... n-attempt/

"A sniper from a local tactical team deployed to assist the U.S. Secret Service at former President Donald Trump's rally on Saturday took a picture of the gunman and saw him looking through a rangefinder minutes before he tried to assassinate the former president, a local law enforcement officer with direct knowledge of the events told CBS News.

The sniper was one of three snipers, members of local tactical teams, who were stationed inside the building that the shooter used in the attack, the officer said. The operations plan had them stationed inside, looking out windows toward the rally, scanning the crowd.


One sniper inside spotted the gunman, Thomas Matthew Crooks, outside and looking up at the roof, observing the building and disappearing, according to the officer who spoke to CBS News. The sniper observed Crooks as he returned to the building, sat down and looked at his phone. At that point, one of the local snipers took a picture of Crooks.

Next, the local sniper observed Crooks looking through a rangefinder, an instrument routinely used by marksmen to determine the distance of a target, and he immediately radioed to the command post, according to the local law enforcement officer. The local sniper also attempted to send the photo of the gunman up the chain of command.

The command post, according to multiple law enforcement officials, served as a central hub to streamline communications between U.S. Secret Service and the local officers from nearby state and county police forces. It is unclear if the command post received the alert.

Officials then lost track of Crooks, who disappeared, but soon returned for a third time with a backpack. The local sniper team called for backup — alerting the command post that the gunman had a backpack and was walking toward the back of the building.

By the time other local officers responded to the backup request, the gunman had scaled the building, positioning himself above and behind the local snipers inside the building, according to the officer.

Two other municipal police officers who heard the call for back-up attempted to climb onto the roof. Butler County Sheriff Michael Sloupe told CBS Pittsburgh station KDKA that an armed municipal officer with Butler Township was hoisted by another officer onto the roof of the building where the gunman had taken a position. Crooks focused his rifle towards the officer who ultimately let go, falling off the roof. Moments later, the shooter began firing into the crowd.

A U.S. Secret Service sniper stationed in a building behind the former president fired off one round, according to multiple law enforcement officials, killing the gunman. Two federal law enforcement officers told CBS News the Secret Service team that ultimately killed the shooter was located on a building behind Trump's left shoulder."

[old salt]

It depends on how you define a mass shooting. Was his objective to kill as many people as possible or to eliminate Trump ?

Re oversight of rooftops, there is a water tower with a railed walkway that could be used by a 2 man overwatch counter-sniper team with a clear view of numerous rooftops, including the one used by the shooter.

Don't think the problem was locations for sniper teams - one of the teams dispatched the shooter within minutes. The issue is why the elevated location of where the shooter was located wasn't properly covered.

If a sniper team or just an overwatch team of a couple police with binoculars & radios, were placed on the water tower -- multiple rooftops could have been surveilled, including the rooftop the shooter used. The issue is not having enough snipers -- it's insufficient overwatch.

[youthathletics]

It depends on how you define a mass shooting. Was his objective to kill as many people as possible or to eliminate Trump ?

Re oversight of rooftops, there is a water tower with a railed walkway that could be used by a 2 man overwatch counter-sniper team with a clear view of numerous rooftops, including the one used by the shooter.

Don't think the problem was locations for sniper teams - one of the teams dispatched the shooter within minutes. The issue is why the elevated location of where the shooter was located wasn't properly covered.

If a sniper team or just an overwatch team of a couple police with binoculars & radios, were placed on the water tower -- multiple rooftops could have been surveilled, including the rooftop the shooter used. The issue is not having enough snipers -- it's insufficient overwatch.

Here is my analysis....based on what we now know:


The pitched roof where the gunman was positioned, provided him cover from the CAT (Counter Assault Team) as he was able to stay low enough below the peak pitch of the roof to stay unseen, until he popped up and got close enough to the top peak of the roof to take aim. Had the CAT team and/or overmatch team, been at a higher elevation than the gunman, they all would have not been handcuffed by visibility of the roof pitch.

My guess, is that when the local cop got on the roof, and the gunman had to turn and point his weapon at the cop making the cop retreat, that provided the CAT a chance to identify the shooter and begin to lock in on him.....it just so happens the gunman must have hurried after he reset from the altercation of the local cop event on the roof. So there was a simultaneous event taking place, in a very short window of time, as each were gaining lock on their target.....that is when the gunman fired first, the CAT sniper jumped at first shot, had to reset and focus, the gunman was able to get off a multiple shots as the CAT sniper was relocking and ultimately fired for the kill shot.

The only portion of this that is fuzzy to me, is how the CAT sniper made his kill shot after the multiple rounds from the gunman. My guess, is that b/c of the elevation change between the CAT and the gunman, the CAT sniper never had a clean shot until the gunman actually tried to retreat after his shots, assuming his head was bobbing up and down as he was crawling back to exit roof.....or the CAT sniper made one phenomenal shot with the limited visibility to of the gunman and roof pitch. The gunman also had to know he was a dead-man regardless, b/c there were law enforcement waiting for him on the ground....so the gunman may have intentionally put himself in a position to be taken out after his shooting spree.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It depends on how you define a mass shooting. Was his objective to kill as many people as possible or to eliminate Trump ?

Re oversight of rooftops, there is a water tower with a railed walkway that could be used by a 2 man overwatch counter-sniper team with a clear view of numerous rooftops, including the one used by the shooter.

Don't think the problem was locations for sniper teams - one of the teams dispatched the shooter within minutes. The issue is why the elevated location of where the shooter was located wasn't properly covered.

In fact, one sniper team inside the building took pictures of him using a rangefinder before the shooting. They then subsequently lost him.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sniper-pic ... n-attempt/

"A sniper from a local tactical team deployed to assist the U.S. Secret Service at former President Donald Trump's rally on Saturday took a picture of the gunman and saw him looking through a rangefinder minutes before he tried to assassinate the former president, a local law enforcement officer with direct knowledge of the events told CBS News.

The sniper was one of three snipers, members of local tactical teams, who were stationed inside the building that the shooter used in the attack, the officer said. The operations plan had them stationed inside, looking out windows toward the rally, scanning the crowd.


One sniper inside spotted the gunman, Thomas Matthew Crooks, outside and looking up at the roof, observing the building and disappearing, according to the officer who spoke to CBS News. The sniper observed Crooks as he returned to the building, sat down and looked at his phone. At that point, one of the local snipers took a picture of Crooks.

Next, the local sniper observed Crooks looking through a rangefinder, an instrument routinely used by marksmen to determine the distance of a target, and he immediately radioed to the command post, according to the local law enforcement officer. The local sniper also attempted to send the photo of the gunman up the chain of command.

The command post, according to multiple law enforcement officials, served as a central hub to streamline communications between U.S. Secret Service and the local officers from nearby state and county police forces. It is unclear if the command post received the alert.

Officials then lost track of Crooks, who disappeared, but soon returned for a third time with a backpack. The local sniper team called for backup — alerting the command post that the gunman had a backpack and was walking toward the back of the building.

By the time other local officers responded to the backup request, the gunman had scaled the building, positioning himself above and behind the local snipers inside the building, according to the officer.

Two other municipal police officers who heard the call for back-up attempted to climb onto the roof. Butler County Sheriff Michael Sloupe told CBS Pittsburgh station KDKA that an armed municipal officer with Butler Township was hoisted by another officer onto the roof of the building where the gunman had taken a position. Crooks focused his rifle towards the officer who ultimately let go, falling off the roof. Moments later, the shooter began firing into the crowd.

A U.S. Secret Service sniper stationed in a building behind the former president fired off one round, according to multiple law enforcement officials, killing the gunman. Two federal law enforcement officers told CBS News the Secret Service team that ultimately killed the shooter was located on a building behind Trump's left shoulder."

I wonder how much time he had between his first shot and the first bullet he took. Old Soldier said he had plenty of time.

[Kismet]

I wonder how much time he had between his first shot and the first bullet he took. Old Soldier said he had plenty of time.

Time enough to squeeze off 8 shots - kill one person and injure three others including the apparent primary target

[old salt]

I wonder how much time he had between his first shot and the first bullet he took. Old Soldier said he had plenty of time.

Watch the video. In the audio from the video, there was a time gap between the initial shots & a second volley of shots.

It appears the first shots were from the shooter, the second volley was the counter-sniper team firing at the shooter.
That's what the TV commentators were saying.

The legal definition of a mass shooting is 3 or more killings in a single incident.

[Farfromgeneva]

I don’t disagree with much of the above commentary, but to me, it still gets back to the fact that they should’ve had law enforcement on the roof well before Trump got near the stage.

Pretty simple.

Go to Dunkin’ Donuts.

Buy two big boxes of donuts.

Put them on the roof.

Put out a notice on all channels that there are free donuts on the roof.

Dont they require cash in those boxes in dirty jersey along with the doughnuts as well?

[njbill]

That’s for the politicians like our soon to be ex-senator.

[ggait]

Bill is right.

All you needed was any old cop sitting on that roof. Could have had a cooler and a beach umbrella. Just need to keep bad guy from sneaking up there.