Trump's Russian Collusion

[CU88]

What is needed is a Mueller to meathead translator. Meatheads hate translators (they are elite ). So they tune back in to reality TV.

Mueller needs his own version of Michael Keegan Key. Trump pretty much does that job himself, but also has Hannity, Rush, Rudy etc. etc. etc. pitching in too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkAK9QRe4ds

I agree, most people, and Congress, appear to have NOT read the report, and are relying on media for their instructions.

Curious to see how long the Mueller bump lasts from todays clip. Not long I suspect.

[old salt]

It's becoming ever more clear (at least to me) that we no longer live in a democracy.

As has happened before in many other countries, a strongman has risen to the highest position of political leadership, and commands a majority of one of the key legislative bodies (the one that does not have proportional representation). He has also stacked the highest court with enough cronies (with more to come) to get a favorable (to him) decision on any case he cares about, and is busy cramming the lower courts with still more cronies. His loyal apparatchiks at lower levels of government paved the way for him (and continue to pave it) by rigging voter registration, district maps, and election rules in his favor, by enough to overcome the fact that he is supported by only about 40% of the voting (under fair rules, anyway) population. But this is more than enough to keep him and his family and his hand-picked successors in power forever.

I see no way to recover from this.

RIP, USA.

Let's hope Constitutional self-correction doesn't come too late.
Otherwise, you'll be right.

Congress could save the Republic immediately, if it actually was in jeopardy.

Failing that, the people decide again in just 17 mos. Both are Constitutional.

[foreverlax]

It's becoming ever more clear (at least to me) that we no longer live in a democracy.

As has happened before in many other countries, a strongman has risen to the highest position of political leadership, and commands a majority of one of the key legislative bodies (the one that does not have proportional representation). He has also stacked the highest court with enough cronies (with more to come) to get a favorable (to him) decision on any case he cares about, and is busy cramming the lower courts with still more cronies. His loyal apparatchiks at lower levels of government paved the way for him (and continue to pave it) by rigging voter registration, district maps, and election rules in his favor, by enough to overcome the fact that he is supported by only about 40% of the voting (under fair rules, anyway) population. But this is more than enough to keep him and his family and his hand-picked successors in power forever.

I see no way to recover from this.

RIP, USA.

Let's hope Constitutional self-correction doesn't come too late.
Otherwise, you'll be right.

Congress could save the Republic immediately, if it actually was in jeopardy.

Failing that, the people decide again in just 17 mos. Both are Constitutional.

Nope. Rs in the Senate seems to have all the hand.

[old salt]

It's becoming ever more clear (at least to me) that we no longer live in a democracy.

As has happened before in many other countries, a strongman has risen to the highest position of political leadership, and commands a majority of one of the key legislative bodies (the one that does not have proportional representation). He has also stacked the highest court with enough cronies (with more to come) to get a favorable (to him) decision on any case he cares about, and is busy cramming the lower courts with still more cronies. His loyal apparatchiks at lower levels of government paved the way for him (and continue to pave it) by rigging voter registration, district maps, and election rules in his favor, by enough to overcome the fact that he is supported by only about 40% of the voting (under fair rules, anyway) population. But this is more than enough to keep him and his family and his hand-picked successors in power forever.

I see no way to recover from this.

RIP, USA.

Let's hope Constitutional self-correction doesn't come too late.
Otherwise, you'll be right.

Congress could save the Republic immediately, if it actually was in jeopardy.

Failing that, the people decide again in just 17 mos. Both are Constitutional.

Nope. Rs in the Senate seems to have all the hand.

...& who elected them ?

[ggait]

I agree, most people, and Congress, appear to have NOT read the report, and are relying on media for their instructions.

Totally. It is all there is black and white in plain view. But unless it can get bounced around in 140 characters, it pretty much doesn't exist.

TLDR of Mueller's statement (and also any testimony he gives): "Um, could you just read my freaking report!!!"

[foreverlax]

It's becoming ever more clear (at least to me) that we no longer live in a democracy.

As has happened before in many other countries, a strongman has risen to the highest position of political leadership, and commands a majority of one of the key legislative bodies (the one that does not have proportional representation). He has also stacked the highest court with enough cronies (with more to come) to get a favorable (to him) decision on any case he cares about, and is busy cramming the lower courts with still more cronies. His loyal apparatchiks at lower levels of government paved the way for him (and continue to pave it) by rigging voter registration, district maps, and election rules in his favor, by enough to overcome the fact that he is supported by only about 40% of the voting (under fair rules, anyway) population. But this is more than enough to keep him and his family and his hand-picked successors in power forever.

I see no way to recover from this.

RIP, USA.

Let's hope Constitutional self-correction doesn't come too late.
Otherwise, you'll be right.

Congress could save the Republic immediately, if it actually was in jeopardy.

Failing that, the people decide again in just 17 mos. Both are Constitutional.

Nope. Rs in the Senate seems to have all the hand.

...& who elected them ?

Duh...what's the point, vote them out? Good one!!

[dislaxxic]

Are "This", "and this", "and THIS", below, still too equivocal for you, Cradle? These words have been out there for weeks now, but the cover-up is in full swing.

What part of these actual words from Robert Mueller gives you pause?

C&S wrote: "...Mueller still did nothing to confirm nor deny anything he found out about Trump...."

Well, umm, there is the Report, which has quite a bit of -- maybe even voluminous -- detail about the stuff the Special Counsel "found out about Trump." You have to do at least a little spade work here. For example:

“Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.”

And this:

"While it may be more difficult to establish that public-facing acts were motivated by a corrupt intent, the President’s power to influence actions, persons, and events is enhanced by his unique ability to attract attention through use of mass communications. And no principle of law excludes public acts from the scope of obstruction statutes. If the likely effect of the acts is to intimidate witnesses or alter their testimony, the justice system’s integrity is equally threatened."

And this:

"The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests. Comey did not end the investigation of Flynn, which ultimately resulted in Flynn’s prosecution and conviction for lying to the FBI. McGahn did not tell the Acting Attorney General that the Special Counsel must be removed, but was instead prepared to resign over the President’s order. Lewandowski and Dearborn did not deliver the President’s message to Sessions that he should confine the Russia investigation to future election meddling only. And McGahn refused to recede from his recollections about events surrounding the President’s direction to have the Special Counsel removed, despite the President’s multiple demands that he do so. Consistent with that pattern, the evidence we obtained would not support potential obstruction charges against the President’s aides and associates beyond those already filed."

Again, you've heard it since we were kids: reading is fundamental. And it prevents bloviating that is unencumbered by stuff like facts.

[cradleandshoot]

Yeah, money has always been his motivation.
Hooboy

I did not say that MD... sometimes you need to stop thinking like a Republican. If someone came up to you and offered you a million dollars for your life story I am sure you would say I have not lived my life for the money... go away. What I have said was when the time is right, someone is going to offer Mueller an awful lot of money to tell his side of the story. Where ever you got the notion that I was implying he was in it for the money is not correct. Let me clarify what I am saying. Robert Mueller has a story to tell. There are a boatload of people that want to hear his story. There are a boatload of people willing to pay him big money to tell his story. When the time is right in his mind he may take them up on the offer. He may just as well want to tell DC to go to hell and live the rest of his life in peace far away from the DC stupidity. Does that clarify it enough for you? some of you folks out there will overthink every damn thing.

[cradleandshoot]

Are "This", "and this", "and THIS", below, still too equivocal for you, Cradle? These words have been out there for weeks now, but the cover-up is in full swing.

What part of these actual words from Robert Mueller gives you pause?

C&S wrote: "...Mueller still did nothing to confirm nor deny anything he found out about Trump...."

Well, umm, there is the Report, which has quite a bit of -- maybe even voluminous -- detail about the stuff the Special Counsel "found out about Trump." You have to do at least a little spade work here. For example:

“Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.”

And this:

"While it may be more difficult to establish that public-facing acts were motivated by a corrupt intent, the President’s power to influence actions, persons, and events is enhanced by his unique ability to attract attention through use of mass communications. And no principle of law excludes public acts from the scope of obstruction statutes. If the likely effect of the acts is to intimidate witnesses or alter their testimony, the justice system’s integrity is equally threatened."

And this:

"The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests. Comey did not end the investigation of Flynn, which ultimately resulted in Flynn’s prosecution and conviction for lying to the FBI. McGahn did not tell the Acting Attorney General that the Special Counsel must be removed, but was instead prepared to resign over the President’s order. Lewandowski and Dearborn did not deliver the President’s message to Sessions that he should confine the Russia investigation to future election meddling only. And McGahn refused to recede from his recollections about events surrounding the President’s direction to have the Special Counsel removed, despite the President’s multiple demands that he do so. Consistent with that pattern, the evidence we obtained would not support potential obstruction charges against the President’s aides and associates beyond those already filed."

Again, you've heard it since we were kids: reading is fundamental. And it prevents bloviating that is unencumbered by stuff like facts.

Dis I could give 2 flying figs about the Mueller report. 72 already made it very clear I am not smart enough to understand it anyway. I have very good reading comprehension. I would rather stick knitting needles in both my eyes than sift through 400 plus pages of any report. If I want to read 400 plus pages of anything in better have Tom Clancys name on it or even Steven King. My point Dis... I don't give a fudge about Donald Trump, Robert Mueller or any of the other people playing out. I will PM you to tell you why.

[MDlaxfan76]

It's becoming ever more clear (at least to me) that we no longer live in a democracy.

As has happened before in many other countries, a strongman has risen to the highest position of political leadership, and commands a majority of one of the key legislative bodies (the one that does not have proportional representation). He has also stacked the highest court with enough cronies (with more to come) to get a favorable (to him) decision on any case he cares about, and is busy cramming the lower courts with still more cronies. His loyal apparatchiks at lower levels of government paved the way for him (and continue to pave it) by rigging voter registration, district maps, and election rules in his favor, by enough to overcome the fact that he is supported by only about 40% of the voting (under fair rules, anyway) population. But this is more than enough to keep him and his family and his hand-picked successors in power forever.

I see no way to recover from this.

RIP, USA.

Let's hope Constitutional self-correction doesn't come too late.
Otherwise, you'll be right.

Congress could save the Republic immediately, if it actually was in jeopardy.

Failing that, the people decide again in just 17 mos. Both are Constitutional.

I agree, both are Constitutional.
But neither can be assumed to get it done.

CU77 is describing an environment in which partisanship has become so extreme that a minority of the population actually ensures an authoritarian outcome.

Frog is in warm water, then hot, then boiling water...too late to jump out.

We may already be boiling and it's too late.

Right now, McConnell has made eminently clear that there is no level to which he will not sink in defense of his partisan objective. His comment yesterday admitting, with a smirk, that he'd of course pass a Trump SCOTUS nominee through in an election year is just the latest evidence.

So, we're faced with a near certainty that the House would easily achieve an impeachment indictment, but an equally likely lack of a conviction in the Senate. It could get close, but the reality of the partisan dynamics right now, the fear of being primaried on the right, is that 60%, even 70%, of Americans could ultimately favor impeachment and removal and the GOP Senate would still fall well short.

And we have a current reality that there's no GOP politician nor set of GOP politicians who, no matter how much they felt Trump should resign and not force them to vote, to whom Trump would actually listen. He's not leaving, period.

And we also have a situation in which it's quite clear that the GOP will go to absolutely ANY lengths to achieve an Electoral College majority.

The latter is not entirely assured, but the set-up is in place to have epic levels of electioneering fraud, machine tampering, voter suppression, and an open invitation to the dictators of the world currying favor to help support the Trump Campaign.

What happens if it's even remotely close?
For the reasons I just laid out, I would expect the Electoral College situation to be close even if Trump only wins 40% of the national vote.

And close could then get bumped to SCOTUS.

God help us if the Dem wins a landslide of votes, but the Electoral College is secured through fraud and/or SCOTUS.

Trump unleashed.
Frog dead.

[MDlaxfan76]

Are "This", "and this", "and THIS", below, still too equivocal for you, Cradle? These words have been out there for weeks now, but the cover-up is in full swing.

What part of these actual words from Robert Mueller gives you pause?

C&S wrote: "...Mueller still did nothing to confirm nor deny anything he found out about Trump...."

Well, umm, there is the Report, which has quite a bit of -- maybe even voluminous -- detail about the stuff the Special Counsel "found out about Trump." You have to do at least a little spade work here. For example:

“Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.”

And this:

"While it may be more difficult to establish that public-facing acts were motivated by a corrupt intent, the President’s power to influence actions, persons, and events is enhanced by his unique ability to attract attention through use of mass communications. And no principle of law excludes public acts from the scope of obstruction statutes. If the likely effect of the acts is to intimidate witnesses or alter their testimony, the justice system’s integrity is equally threatened."

And this:

"The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests. Comey did not end the investigation of Flynn, which ultimately resulted in Flynn’s prosecution and conviction for lying to the FBI. McGahn did not tell the Acting Attorney General that the Special Counsel must be removed, but was instead prepared to resign over the President’s order. Lewandowski and Dearborn did not deliver the President’s message to Sessions that he should confine the Russia investigation to future election meddling only. And McGahn refused to recede from his recollections about events surrounding the President’s direction to have the Special Counsel removed, despite the President’s multiple demands that he do so. Consistent with that pattern, the evidence we obtained would not support potential obstruction charges against the President’s aides and associates beyond those already filed."

Again, you've heard it since we were kids: reading is fundamental. And it prevents bloviating that is unencumbered by stuff like facts.

Dis I could give 2 flying figs about the Mueller report. 72 already made it very clear I am not smart enough to understand it anyway. I have very good reading comprehension. I would rather stick knitting needles in both my eyes than sift through 400 plus pages of any report. If I want to read 400 plus pages of anything in better have Tom Clancys name on it or even Steven King. My point Dis... I don't give a fudge about Donald Trump, Robert Mueller or any of the other people playing out. I will PM you to tell you why.

cradle, if you're unwilling to read the Report, stop expressing half-baked opinions on the topic.
If you don't care, stop commenting as if you do.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah, money has always been his motivation.
Hooboy

I did not say that MD... sometimes you need to stop thinking like a Republican. If someone came up to you and offered you a million dollars for your life story I am sure you would say I have not lived my life for the money... go away. What I have said was when the time is right, someone is going to offer Mueller an awful lot of money to tell his side of the story. Where ever you got the notion that I was implying he was in it for the money is not correct. Let me clarify what I am saying. Robert Mueller has a story to tell. There are a boatload of people that want to hear his story. There are a boatload of people willing to pay him big money to tell his story. When the time is right in his mind he may take them up on the offer. He may just as well want to tell DC to go to hell and live the rest of his life in peace far away from the DC stupidity. Does that clarify it enough for you? some of you folks out there will overthink every damn thing.

cradle, again, if you're gonna comment, you're gonna need to deal with the reaction.

You bring up the notion of a tell-all book and lots of money in a post. Then keep repeating that prediction. If you don't think you were implying money as a motivation, you need to read what you write before hitting 'submit'.

You imply it again above, 'big money', 'million dollars', etc. You do realize he could easily make a million + bucks a year in private practice and instead chose to take on the low paid gig in which he gets peed on by all sorts of scum?

Mueller can tell whatever story he wants without accepting a nickel to do so. He has all sorts of ways to tell that story, including in front of Congress.

Instead he says to read the Report.
He says he wrote it very carefully. He wants it read.

So, go read the Report.
Stop being lazy and making predictions that demean the man and his work.
Read the Report.

Or if you can't handle that many pages, just read all of Justin Amash's tweets.
Pretty darn good summary by a guy who Did bother to read it.

[old salt]

a drowsy frog :
I agree, both are Constitutional.
But neither can be assumed to get it done.

CU77 is describing an environment in which partisanship has become so extreme that a minority of the population actually ensures an authoritarian outcome.

Frog is in warm water, then hot, then boiling water...too late to jump out.

We may already be boiling and it's too late.

Right now, McConnell has made eminently clear that there is no level to which he will not sink in defense of his partisan objective. His comment yesterday admitting, with a smirk, that he'd of course pass a Trump SCOTUS nominee through in an election year is just the latest evidence.

So, we're faced with a near certainty that the House would easily achieve an impeachment indictment, but an equally likely lack of a conviction in the Senate. It could get close, but the reality of the partisan dynamics right now, the fear of being primaried on the right, is that 60%, even 70%, of Americans could ultimately favor impeachment and removal and the GOP Senate would still fall well short.

And we have a current reality that there's no GOP politician nor set of GOP politicians who, no matter how much they felt Trump should resign and not force them to vote, to whom Trump would actually listen. He's not leaving, period.

And we also have a situation in which it's quite clear that the GOP will go to absolutely ANY lengths to achieve an Electoral College majority.

The latter is not entirely assured, but the set-up is in place to have epic levels of electioneering fraud, machine tampering, voter suppression, and an open invitation to the dictators of the world currying favor to help support the Trump Campaign.

What happens if it's even remotely close?
For the reasons I just laid out, I would expect the Electoral College situation to be close even if Trump only wins 40% of the national vote.

And close could then get bumped to SCOTUS.

God help us if the Dem wins a landslide of votes, but the Electoral College is secured through fraud and/or SCOTUS.

Trump unleashed.
Frog dead.

If there had been evidence of a conspiracy between Trump & Russia, at least the necessary 20 (R)'s in the Senate would vote to convict.

They're not going to overturn an election, based on obstruction of an investigation into a non-crime, in which no solid evidence of obvious obstructive conduct like bribery, witness tampering, destroying evidence or suborning perjury was found. Especially in light of the volume of documents & witnesses provided.

The unfounded Russian conspiracy charges have been used for 3 years in attempts to prevent, then undermine the Trump Presidency,
There's no way (R) Senators are going to validate that, & (D) leaders recognize it for the political disaster it will be if the try.

[dislaxxic]

cradle, if you're unwilling to read the Report, stop expressing half-baked opinions on the topic. If you don't care, stop commenting as if you do.{Edit: baked AND half-baked!}

Quoted, for emphasis! Applies as well to many of our (now strangely quiet) FL Little r Trumpists...

..

[cradleandshoot]

Are "This", "and this", "and THIS", below, still too equivocal for you, Cradle? These words have been out there for weeks now, but the cover-up is in full swing.

What part of these actual words from Robert Mueller gives you pause?

C&S wrote: "...Mueller still did nothing to confirm nor deny anything he found out about Trump...."

Well, umm, there is the Report, which has quite a bit of -- maybe even voluminous -- detail about the stuff the Special Counsel "found out about Trump." You have to do at least a little spade work here. For example:

“Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.”

And this:

"While it may be more difficult to establish that public-facing acts were motivated by a corrupt intent, the President’s power to influence actions, persons, and events is enhanced by his unique ability to attract attention through use of mass communications. And no principle of law excludes public acts from the scope of obstruction statutes. If the likely effect of the acts is to intimidate witnesses or alter their testimony, the justice system’s integrity is equally threatened."

And this:

"The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests. Comey did not end the investigation of Flynn, which ultimately resulted in Flynn’s prosecution and conviction for lying to the FBI. McGahn did not tell the Acting Attorney General that the Special Counsel must be removed, but was instead prepared to resign over the President’s order. Lewandowski and Dearborn did not deliver the President’s message to Sessions that he should confine the Russia investigation to future election meddling only. And McGahn refused to recede from his recollections about events surrounding the President’s direction to have the Special Counsel removed, despite the President’s multiple demands that he do so. Consistent with that pattern, the evidence we obtained would not support potential obstruction charges against the President’s aides and associates beyond those already filed."

Again, you've heard it since we were kids: reading is fundamental. And it prevents bloviating that is unencumbered by stuff like facts.

Dis I could give 2 flying figs about the Mueller report. 72 already made it very clear I am not smart enough to understand it anyway. I have very good reading comprehension. I would rather stick knitting needles in both my eyes than sift through 400 plus pages of any report. If I want to read 400 plus pages of anything in better have Tom Clancys name on it or even Steven King. My point Dis... I don't give a fudge about Donald Trump, Robert Mueller or any of the other people playing out. I will PM you to tell you why.

cradle, if you're unwilling to read the Report, stop expressing half-baked opinions on the topic.
If you don't care, stop commenting as if you do.

I have my reasons why I don't care. If you want to read this report more power to you. I have read goodness knows how many different people expressing their opinion about what the report does and does not say. I did try and download vol.2 of the report but I may have been dead and buried before it downloaded on my laptop. Then I found out today that according to 72, I don't have the intelligence to comprehend it anyways. I guess I saved myself a lot of time then. If it makes you feel better... read it again for me.

[cradleandshoot]

cradle, if you're unwilling to read the Report, stop expressing half-baked opinions on the topic. If you don't care, stop commenting as if you do.{Edit: baked AND half-baked!}

Quoted, for emphasis! Applies as well to many of our (now strangely quiet) FL Little r Trumpists...

..

I am not a Trumpist… I have bigger things in my life to worry about right now. If you read my message to you then you understand.

[dislaxxic]

If there had been evidence of a conspiracy between Trump & Russia, at least the necessary 20 (R)'s in the Senate would vote to convict.

They're not going to overturn an election, based on obstruction of an investigation into a non-crime, in which no solid evidence of obvious obstructive conduct like bribery, witness tampering, destroying evidence or suborning perjury was found. Especially in light of the volume of documents & witnesses provided.

The unfounded Russian conspiracy charges have been used for 3 years in attempts to prevent, then undermine the Trump Presidency,
There's no way (R) Senators are going to validate that, & (D) leaders recognize it for the political disaster it will be if the try.

Sorta like how the R's sought to overturn an election because of perjury regarding a sex act?

This set of circumstances is SO much more egregious than that, and i buy the argument that if the Dems wimp out on an impeachment inquiry, with ALL that entails, would be an open invitation to ANY tin-pot dictator-lite coming down the American Political Pike to just throw up a middle finger to any effort to hold the chief executive accountable for treacherous, un-American behavior like this. OS makes this specious argument knowing full well that the full extent ot Don's depredations have not yet come to light. There is very little doubt that he has laundered Russian money and committed fraud with tax and financial matters in the recent past, along with a fairly lengthy list of other impeachable offenses. "Unfounded" Russian conspiracy?? What a sad, utterly laughable opinion. The Fox News Wet Dream.

An impeachment Inquiry will lay this all out in clear detail for Americans to make a decision prior to the 2020 election. The McConnell Senate is also a treacherous, un-American body as it is currently constituted and led by this snake with the turkey wattle. It is lost, at least until 2020.

All this said, i feel like the 2020 election will almost certainly take this stain from before our eyes...

..

[Typical Lax Dad]

a drowsy frog :
I agree, both are Constitutional.
But neither can be assumed to get it done.

CU77 is describing an environment in which partisanship has become so extreme that a minority of the population actually ensures an authoritarian outcome.

Frog is in warm water, then hot, then boiling water...too late to jump out.

We may already be boiling and it's too late.

Right now, McConnell has made eminently clear that there is no level to which he will not sink in defense of his partisan objective. His comment yesterday admitting, with a smirk, that he'd of course pass a Trump SCOTUS nominee through in an election year is just the latest evidence.

So, we're faced with a near certainty that the House would easily achieve an impeachment indictment, but an equally likely lack of a conviction in the Senate. It could get close, but the reality of the partisan dynamics right now, the fear of being primaried on the right, is that 60%, even 70%, of Americans could ultimately favor impeachment and removal and the GOP Senate would still fall well short.

And we have a current reality that there's no GOP politician nor set of GOP politicians who, no matter how much they felt Trump should resign and not force them to vote, to whom Trump would actually listen. He's not leaving, period.

And we also have a situation in which it's quite clear that the GOP will go to absolutely ANY lengths to achieve an Electoral College majority.

The latter is not entirely assured, but the set-up is in place to have epic levels of electioneering fraud, machine tampering, voter suppression, and an open invitation to the dictators of the world currying favor to help support the Trump Campaign.

What happens if it's even remotely close?
For the reasons I just laid out, I would expect the Electoral College situation to be close even if Trump only wins 40% of the national vote.

And close could then get bumped to SCOTUS.

God help us if the Dem wins a landslide of votes, but the Electoral College is secured through fraud and/or SCOTUS.

Trump unleashed.
Frog dead.

If there had been evidence of a conspiracy between Trump & Russia, at least the necessary 20 (R)'s in the Senate would vote to convict.

They're not going to overturn an election, based on obstruction of an investigation into a non-crime, in which no solid evidence of obvious obstructive conduct like bribery, witness tampering, destroying evidence or suborning perjury was found. Especially in light of the volume of documents & witnesses provided.

The unfounded Russian conspiracy charges have been used for 3 years in attempts to prevent, then undermine the Trump Presidency,
There's no way (R) Senators are going to validate that, & (D) leaders recognize it for the political disaster it will be if the try.

So Hillary won't become President if Trump is impeached?

[CU77]

Let's hope Constitutional self-correction doesn't come too late.

There is no such thing as Constitutional "self-correction". There are only people, people who act (or not) to support the rule of law and the restriction of political and governmental power to its lawful uses. Right now, there are not enough such people. The strongman has captured the support of 90% of the members of a political party who used to support (or at least claimed to support) the rule of law. They no longer do so; instead, they support the strongman. You can find several examples of such people right here at the WC. They are completely and unalterably convinced that they are in the right, and that the strongman is in the right to do whatever he wants. Because those who oppose the strongman are evil and hate their country and hate all that is good and true and beautiful, like the strongman himself.

[old salt]

If there had been evidence of a conspiracy between Trump & Russia, at least the necessary 20 (R)'s in the Senate would vote to convict.

They're not going to overturn an election, based on obstruction of an investigation into a non-crime, in which no solid evidence of obvious obstructive conduct like bribery, witness tampering, destroying evidence or suborning perjury was found. Especially in light of the volume of documents & witnesses provided.

The unfounded Russian conspiracy charges have been used for 3 years in attempts to prevent, then undermine the Trump Presidency,
There's no way (R) Senators are going to validate that, & (D) leaders recognize it for the political disaster it will be if the try.

Sorta like how the R's sought to overturn an election because of perjury regarding a sex act?

This set of circumstances is SO much more egregious than that, and i buy the argument that if the Dems wimp out on an impeachment inquiry, with ALL that entails, would be an open invitation to ANY tin-pot dictator-lite coming down the American Political Pike to just throw up a middle finger to any effort to hold the chief executive accountable for treacherous, un-American behavior like this. OS makes this specious argument knowing full well that the full extent ot Don's depredations have not yet come to light. There is very little doubt that he has laundered Russian money and committed fraud with tax and financial matters in the recent past, along with a fairly lengthy list of other impeachable offenses. "Unfounded" Russian conspiracy?? What a sad, utterly laughable opinion. The Fox News Wet Dream.

An impeachment Inquiry will lay this all out in clear detail for Americans to make a decision prior to the 2020 election. The McConnell Senate is also a treacherous, un-American body as it is currently constituted and led by this snake with the turkey wattle. It is lost, at least until 2020.

All this said, i feel like the 2020 election will almost certainly take this stain from before our eyes.....

Tough to ignore those tapes of Slick Willie coaching Monica on how to lie to FBI agents, especially when Isikoff had them, ready to publish.

That's why they re-wrote the SP law, downgrading it to a SC.