Trump's Russian Collusion

[jhu72]

Dems would be wise to stick to those two themes, "corruption" and "cover-up", rather than "collusion" and "obstruction".

Well sure, "if at first you don't succeed"...

Legally, there is no such thing as 'collusion". There are, of course, legal elements that point to collusion, but "Collusion" is not something with prescribed legal consequences. Ask your lawyer.

"Obstruction of Justice" reads as 'Defiance of the Deep State" to Trump fans. This issue has no legs if you want to change minds.

MD76 has a point, though, that Trump is and has been corrupt since day one (my extrapolation) , and he is not being transparent to the people despite his claims to the contrary.

I don't know if Congress has the stones to hoist Trump onto his own petard which is needed to drive these points home.

KISS principle.

I simply think that communicating in simpler, easier to demonstrate, terms would be to the Dems benefit. Pound on the themes that are easy for most voters, even the lowest common denominator voters, to comprehend.

And focus where you don't need the DOJ under this AG to make clear that the charge sticks. If you can get further validation from various prosecutors and testimony in front of Congress, all the better, but don't depend upon it.

"corruption" can be shown in all sorts of ways, by Trump himself, his businesses, his family, his cronies, his appointees...very long list, and I think it's very easy to cite. Some are criminal forms of corruption, some are just major embarrassments. Throughout his life, Trump has lied and lied and lied, cheated others, and then lied some more. And the people he has attracted to him are corrupt as all get out. For decades in his business, during his campaign, and as he runs his Administration. Pound that message.

"cover-up" is much easier to demonstrate than "obstruction of justice" which may well be prosecuted and convicted after he leaves office, but it's not going to be prosecuted by this AG and his reports. So, go after what is eminently clear: he lies and lies and lies in order to cover-up misdeeds, whether criminal or just embarrassments; but there's no question that he lies flagrantly, and has done so again and again and again. His claims of "transparency" are flat out laughable, so pound on that theme.

And of course, follow the money.
That's where most of the corruption lies, and where the efforts to cover-up are most intense, most obvious.
He's panicked by it.

I'd note that these messages were impossible for HRC to emphasize.

Only a few of the Dem candidates can do this, but for those who can, like Mayor Pete and Seth Moulton and Tulsi Gabbard, the theme of "coward" is a theme that will stick. Pound it.

This is the problem with the Mueller report. You have to have a brain to understand it. It is filled with instances of collusion, it is filled with instances of attempts to obstruct justice. The report is written so the intelligent can read it without need for hyperbole or being beaten over the head. Just the facts mam. Meatheads can't read it and understand it (it's too long, and uses two + syllables words). Meatheads can't listen to Mueller and understand what he is saying. What is needed is a Mueller to meathead translator. Meatheads hate translators (they are elite ). So they tune back in to reality TV.

[a fan]

It is pretty funny, actually.

I can't wait to see what Trump does over the next two years now that Mueller has told him that he can break any law he wishes, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. If I'm Trump? I"d spend the next two years fleecing the US Treasury, and sending it all to my family. While my fans cheer me on.

Pass the popcorn.

[jhu72]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

[OCanada]

Muller said quite a lot regardless of what some are trying to claim.



“The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion,” Mueller wrote. This help “favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.”

The Trump campaign “expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts,” and it “welcomed” this help.

There is insufficient evidence to accuse the Trump campaign of criminal conspiracy with its Russian benefactors. However, “the social media campaign and the GRU hacking operations coincided with a series of contacts between Trump Campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government.”

These contacts were covered up by a series of lies, both to the special counsel and to Congress. Lying by the Trump campaign successfully obscured much of what happened in 2016. The special counsel in some cases “was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.” In particular, the investigation never did determine what happened to proprietary Trump-campaign polling data shared with the Russians.

Within hours of the appointment of a special counsel to investigate 2016 events, Trump began defaming him. Trump had already fired the FBI director who investigated these events. His first order to fire the special counsel appointed in the director’s place was issued on June 17, 2017, a month after Mueller’s appointment. That order would be followed by many more. Trump directed his staff to lie about these orders.

Over and above his efforts to fire the special counsel, “the President engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation.”

The subversion of the investigation was brazen. “Many of the President’s acts directed at witnesses, including discouragement of cooperation with the government and suggestions of possible future pardons, occurred in public view.”

Obstruction of justice, though, need not be clandestine to count as a crime. What matters is intent—and that must be judged by Congress, not a special counsel subordinate to the Department of Justice and bound by its rule that a president cannot be indicted.

The full report is rich with details. But that’s the essence. A foreign power interfered in the U.S. election to help the Trump campaign. The Trump campaign welcomed the help and repeatedly lied about it. The lying successfully obscured some questions the investigation sought to answer; in the end, it found insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy. President Trump, in public and in private, worked to stop the investigation.

Those are the facts. What are the remedies? Mueller underscored at his press statement: He did not exonerate the president. Under the Department of Justice rules he was subject to, he lacked the power to act.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration refuses to take steps to secure the next presidential election against the interference that swayed the last. The question of why Russia so strongly wished to help Trump remains as mysterious as ever. In particular, if you wish to understand the breadth and depth of Trump’s Russian business connections before he declared for president in 2015, Mueller’s report will not help you.

David Frum excerpt

Mueller says he can do no more. The rest, Congress, is up to you.

[jhu72]

Muller said quite a lot regardless of what some are trying to claim.



“The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion,” Mueller wrote. This help “favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.”

The Trump campaign “expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts,” and it “welcomed” this help.

There is insufficient evidence to accuse the Trump campaign of criminal conspiracy with its Russian benefactors. However, “the social media campaign and the GRU hacking operations coincided with a series of contacts between Trump Campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government.”

These contacts were covered up by a series of lies, both to the special counsel and to Congress. Lying by the Trump campaign successfully obscured much of what happened in 2016. The special counsel in some cases “was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.” In particular, the investigation never did determine what happened to proprietary Trump-campaign polling data shared with the Russians.

Within hours of the appointment of a special counsel to investigate 2016 events, Trump began defaming him. Trump had already fired the FBI director who investigated these events. His first order to fire the special counsel appointed in the director’s place was issued on June 17, 2017, a month after Mueller’s appointment. That order would be followed by many more. Trump directed his staff to lie about these orders.

Over and above his efforts to fire the special counsel, “the President engaged in a second phase of conduct, involving public attacks on the investigation, non-public efforts to control it, and efforts in both public and private to encourage witnesses not to cooperate with the investigation.”

The subversion of the investigation was brazen. “Many of the President’s acts directed at witnesses, including discouragement of cooperation with the government and suggestions of possible future pardons, occurred in public view.”

Obstruction of justice, though, need not be clandestine to count as a crime. What matters is intent—and that must be judged by Congress, not a special counsel subordinate to the Department of Justice and bound by its rule that a president cannot be indicted.

The full report is rich with details. But that’s the essence. A foreign power interfered in the U.S. election to help the Trump campaign. The Trump campaign welcomed the help and repeatedly lied about it. The lying successfully obscured some questions the investigation sought to answer; in the end, it found insufficient evidence to charge a broader conspiracy. President Trump, in public and in private, worked to stop the investigation.

Those are the facts. What are the remedies? Mueller underscored at his press statement: He did not exonerate the president. Under the Department of Justice rules he was subject to, he lacked the power to act.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration refuses to take steps to secure the next presidential election against the interference that swayed the last. The question of why Russia so strongly wished to help Trump remains as mysterious as ever. In particular, if you wish to understand the breadth and depth of Trump’s Russian business connections before he declared for president in 2015, Mueller’s report will not help you.

David Frum excerpt

Mueller says he can do no more. The rest, Congress, is up to you.

That is the big take away. Mueller called on congress to do their job.

[cradleandshoot]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

Yet again 72... given the source as always I consider anything you say about me as a compliment. . For the record... You don't think once the dust settles that someone will offer Mueller a kings ransom to write a book about this?

[Typical Lax Dad]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

Yet again 72... given the source as always I consider anything you say about me as a compliment. . For the record... You don't think once the dust settles that someone will offer Mueller a kings ransom to write a book about this?

Why do you care? You don’t have to buy the book or watch the movie.

[cradleandshoot]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

Yet again 72... given the source as always I consider anything you say about me as a compliment. . For the record... You don't think once the dust settles that someone will offer Mueller a kings ransom to write a book about this?

Why do you care? You don’t have to buy the book or watch the movie.

Who said I care?? I won't read the book or watch the movie. I am guessing what Mueller will do when someone hands him a check with enough zeroes on it.

[MDlaxfan76]

Yeah, money has always been his motivation.
Hooboy

[Typical Lax Dad]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

Yet again 72... given the source as always I consider anything you say about me as a compliment. . For the record... You don't think once the dust settles that someone will offer Mueller a kings ransom to write a book about this?

Why do you care? You don’t have to buy the book or watch the movie.

Who said I care?? I won't read the book or watch the movie. I am guessing what Mueller will do when someone hands him a check with enough zeroes on it.

I don't care so it never crossed my mind..... I was just wondering why it crossed yours?....I assumed you "cared".... my bad.

[cradleandshoot]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

Yet again 72... given the source as always I consider anything you say about me as a compliment. . For the record... You don't think once the dust settles that someone will offer Mueller a kings ransom to write a book about this?

Why do you care? You don’t have to buy the book or watch the movie.

Who said I care?? I won't read the book or watch the movie. I am guessing what Mueller will do when someone hands him a check with enough zeroes on it.

I don't care so it never crossed my mind..... I was just wondering why it crossed yours?....I assumed you "cared".... my bad.

I could be wrong. I only believe there is a part of Mueller that wants to tell the world what he believes Trump did even if he couldn't prove it. Maybe he can put it in his rearview and move on. I think once Trump is gone he will feel more inclined to speak his mind. The fact that in doing so he could earn a lot of money will be even more tempting.

[foreverlax]

With income exceeding two commas annually, net worth in 8 figures and speaking fees at $50k per...suspect money isn't his issue.

Mueller has told us what he believes - in his own words.

[dislaxxic]

THE GAME OF TELEPHONE THAT HAS ATTORNEY GENERAL WILLIAM BARR IN A LATHER

"Much of the current investigation into the investigation, then, stems from a hearing where:

- Mark Meadows and other Republicans let Papadopoulos testify about what he read in the news, but not key details about his first hand knowledge of events

- Papadopoulos’ inconsistent testimony replicated his past obstruction

- Meadows let someone who should know less than Meadows himself does about FISA misrepresent how it works as testimony

- Once again, FBI’s conservative approach with this investigation is instead cited as proof of spying

This is what has Attorney General in a lather right now: claims originating in this hearing."

..

[MDlaxfan76]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

Yet again 72... given the source as always I consider anything you say about me as a compliment. . For the record... You don't think once the dust settles that someone will offer Mueller a kings ransom to write a book about this?

Why do you care? You don’t have to buy the book or watch the movie.

Who said I care?? I won't read the book or watch the movie. I am guessing what Mueller will do when someone hands him a check with enough zeroes on it.

I don't care so it never crossed my mind..... I was just wondering why it crossed yours?....I assumed you "cared".... my bad.

I could be wrong. I only believe there is a part of Mueller that wants to tell the world what he believes Trump did even if he couldn't prove it. Maybe he can put it in his rearview and move on. I think once Trump is gone he will feel more inclined to speak his mind. The fact that in doing so he could earn a lot of money will be even more tempting.

Given that Mueller's career includes a series of decisions to forgo much, much higher pay in the private sector jobs he held to instead get paid far less as a public servant, and he's never previously cashed in though the book route despite tons of inside information and experiences as a top prosecutor and FBI chief during some of the most interesting periods of our lives, I think "a lot of money" is just not a factor for Mueller.

Suggesting otherwise seems to be a typical sort of Trumpist projection.

Trump's driven his whole life driven by his self-interest, in all sorts of distasteful ways, but most importantly by excessive financial greed and display.

Trump accuses others of what he knows best fits himself.
His followers take his lead.

But it obviously doesn't fit Mueller.

Now...telling the world what he thinks could be important to him...but he's sure sending signals that he wants the Report to speak for itself and that he really doesn't want to be doing public speeches or testifying to Congress. In other words, he's already told the world what he thinks...read it.

That said, he sure didn't say he wouldn't testify, just that, if called, he wasn't expecting to reveal anything not included in the Report (he won't actually be able to limit that 100%, but he'll err to circumspection).

But as Justin Amash is making clear, the Report is very, very compelling all by itself. The problem, as Rep Amash says, is that not even most of Congress has bothered to read it.

So, having Mueller go through his Report, point by point, on live TV, will be how most Americans finally get a grasp on what it says. He doesn't have to say more than the Report...according to Rep Amash.

I think this may actually be done in a formal impeachment inquiry process, with staff or other hired counsel doing most of the questioning and downplaying the inevitable political grandstanding.

[Typical Lax Dad]

So Mueller pretty much said dickey doo. Close down his office, pick up all his toys, retire and ride off into the sunset. Mueller reminds me of the kid in HS who starts the food fight in the cafeteria then slinks out the back door once all the chaos has been started. I find it hard to believe Mueller has nothing left to say. Maybe the book deal down the road is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. After 2 years of investigating the nation has even more questions than it did at the start.

Perfect example of meathead take away.

Yet again 72... given the source as always I consider anything you say about me as a compliment. . For the record... You don't think once the dust settles that someone will offer Mueller a kings ransom to write a book about this?

Why do you care? You don’t have to buy the book or watch the movie.

Who said I care?? I won't read the book or watch the movie. I am guessing what Mueller will do when someone hands him a check with enough zeroes on it.

I don't care so it never crossed my mind..... I was just wondering why it crossed yours?....I assumed you "cared".... my bad.

I could be wrong. I only believe there is a part of Mueller that wants to tell the world what he believes Trump did even if he couldn't prove it. Maybe he can put it in his rearview and move on. I think once Trump is gone he will feel more inclined to speak his mind. The fact that in doing so he could earn a lot of money will be even more tempting.

Any you care about this why? or you don't care about it but its on your mind?

[CU77]

It's becoming ever more clear (at least to me) that we no longer live in a democracy.

As has happened before in many other countries, a strongman has risen to the highest position of political leadership, and commands a majority of one of the key legislative bodies (the one that does not have proportional representation). He has also stacked the highest court with enough cronies (with more to come) to get a favorable (to him) decision on any case he cares about, and is busy cramming the lower courts with still more cronies. His loyal apparatchiks at lower levels of government paved the way for him (and continue to pave it) by rigging voter registration, district maps, and election rules in his favor, by enough to overcome the fact that he is supported by only about 40% of the voting (under fair rules, anyway) population. But this is more than enough to keep him and his family and his hand-picked successors in power forever.

I see no way to recover from this.

RIP, USA.

[seacoaster]

C&S wrote: "...Mueller still did nothing to confirm nor deny anything he found out about Trump...."

Well, umm, there is the Report, which has quite a bit of -- maybe even voluminous -- detail about the stuff the Special Counsel "found out about Trump." You have to do at least a little spade work here. For example:

“Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.”

And this:

"While it may be more difficult to establish that public-facing acts were motivated by a corrupt intent, the President’s power to influence actions, persons, and events is enhanced by his unique ability to attract attention through use of mass communications. And no principle of law excludes public acts from the scope of obstruction statutes. If the likely effect of the acts is to intimidate witnesses or alter their testimony, the justice system’s integrity is equally threatened."

And this:

"The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests. Comey did not end the investigation of Flynn, which ultimately resulted in Flynn’s prosecution and conviction for lying to the FBI. McGahn did not tell the Acting Attorney General that the Special Counsel must be removed, but was instead prepared to resign over the President’s order. Lewandowski and Dearborn did not deliver the President’s message to Sessions that he should confine the Russia investigation to future election meddling only. And McGahn refused to recede from his recollections about events surrounding the President’s direction to have the Special Counsel removed, despite the President’s multiple demands that he do so. Consistent with that pattern, the evidence we obtained would not support potential obstruction charges against the President’s aides and associates beyond those already filed."

Again, you've heard it since we were kids: reading is fundamental. And it prevents bloviating that is unencumbered by stuff like facts.

[MDlaxfan76]

It's becoming ever more clear (at least to me) that we no longer live in a democracy.

As has happened before in many other countries, a strongman has risen to the highest position of political leadership, and commands a majority of one of the key legislative bodies (the one that does not have proportional representation). He has also stacked the highest court with enough cronies (with more to come) to get a favorable (to him) decision on any case he cares about, and is busy cramming the lower courts with still more cronies. His loyal apparatchiks at lower levels of government paved the way for him (and continue to pave it) by rigging voter registration, district maps, and election rules in his favor, by enough to overcome the fact that he is supported by only about 40% of the voting (under fair rules, anyway) population. But this is more than enough to keep him and his family and his hand-picked successors in power forever.

I see no way to recover from this.

RIP, USA.

Let's hope Constitutional self-correction doesn't come too late.
Otherwise, you'll be right.

[ggait]

What is needed is a Mueller to meathead translator. Meatheads hate translators (they are elite ). So they tune back in to reality TV.

Mueller needs his own version of Michael Keegan Key. Trump pretty much does that job himself, but also has Hannity, Rush, Rudy etc. etc. etc. pitching in too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkAK9QRe4ds

[CU88]

Mueller is so EXACT with his words:

Mueller said: "When a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators, it strikes at the core of the government’s effort to find the truth and hold wrong doers accountable."

Not "If a subject."

Hmmm...