Or Frisco apparently.
I was just abbreviating, should have used SF or, if a nickname, "the City".
I guess the natives are a bit touchy. Yes, I'm just a tourist.
Or Frisco apparently.
Huh, you been to New Orleans or pretty much anywhere in Alabama?6ftstick wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 11:05 amNot sure men an women are openly defecating on the streets in Alabama Louisianna or Kansas. Downtown outside expensive restaurants and office towers. Or that there are used hypodermics everywhere in the streets.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 8:53 amYup.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 6:44 am The failed economic states like AL, LA.KS etc need CA to be a high growth economic success so they can be net users of those fed tax dollars. That said RE prices are high because demand is high. Demand is high because people want to live there among other reasons because there is better opportunity. In general people find they cooperate better and diversity boosts productivity
Which is why it made me chuckle to hear how undesirable San Fran is according to the Manhattan Institute pub.
But I guess its what you're willing to accept as symbols of productivety and affluence.
If you are responding to me, thatsmell, those were the states that 6ft cited, not me. I was just responding to those specifics.thatsmell wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:51 am So is Baltimore a success? Because it has been under Democrat rule and sucking off the teat of Baltimore, Montgomery, Howard and Harford Counties for a couple decades now. Just curious how I should feel about Baltimore is comparison to the states you listed.
The word you are looking for is "civilized". San Francisco is civilized.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 6:44 am The failed economic states like AL, LA.KS etc need CA to be a high growth economic success so they can be net users of those fed tax dollars. That said RE prices are high because demand is high. Demand is high because people want to live there among other reasons because there is better opportunity. In general people find they cooperate better and diversity boosts productivity
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:13 amIf you are responding to me, thatsmell, those were the states that 6ft cited, not me. I was just responding to those specifics.thatsmell wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:51 am So is Baltimore a success? Because it has been under Democrat rule and sucking off the teat of Baltimore, Montgomery, Howard and Harford Counties for a couple decades now. Just curious how I should feel about Baltimore is comparison to the states you listed.
On Baltimore, you and I probably agree that we've had a whole series of either inept or corrupt or overly racialized (or a combination) leaders of my city (I say 'my' because, though I live in Baltimore County, I consider Charm City my city. Born and raised half my childhood in the City, went to elementary, middle and high school in the City, sent my son to those same schools, worked downtown for a number of years, enjoy the cultural institutions, restaurants, etc, serve on boards of orgs focused on the City.
I don't correlate that ineptness to D vs R, but I do think one party rule has inherent issues. It invites/protects ineptitude and corruption.
But the issues of Baltimore are far more complex than just the elected leadership (I think Willy Don Schaefer was our last truly effective elected leader).
I'm sure we could have a really interesting discussion of the corruption of those officials by big monied interests, primarily real estate oriented, and how that led, from a policy perspective, to tax breaks for the big commercial property owners, while elevating tax rates on residential ownership. Huge error. Both SF and Boston were in far worse shape in the 70's than Baltimore. But we went the direction of raising residential rates, while they actually decreased. (All 3 under Dem elected leadership.)
Or we could discuss the effects of redlining, both institutionally protected through even the '70's, and de facto even today.
Or we could discuss the ridiculousness of the artificial division of Baltimore from its surrounding counties, for which it is indeed the city centre for the region.
Or we could discuss the cowardice and downright treachery of business executives who sold great anchor corporations to more ambitious acquirers in order to personally get ridiculously rich, but destroying the employment and philanthropic base.
Lots of topics a cold beer and some time could cover.
Yes, redlining was a huge factor. Both governmentally endorsed and de facto.jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:03 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:13 amIf you are responding to me, thatsmell, those were the states that 6ft cited, not me. I was just responding to those specifics.thatsmell wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:51 am So is Baltimore a success? Because it has been under Democrat rule and sucking off the teat of Baltimore, Montgomery, Howard and Harford Counties for a couple decades now. Just curious how I should feel about Baltimore is comparison to the states you listed.
On Baltimore, you and I probably agree that we've had a whole series of either inept or corrupt or overly racialized (or a combination) leaders of my city (I say 'my' because, though I live in Baltimore County, I consider Charm City my city. Born and raised half my childhood in the City, went to elementary, middle and high school in the City, sent my son to those same schools, worked downtown for a number of years, enjoy the cultural institutions, restaurants, etc, serve on boards of orgs focused on the City.
I don't correlate that ineptness to D vs R, but I do think one party rule has inherent issues. It invites/protects ineptitude and corruption.
But the issues of Baltimore are far more complex than just the elected leadership (I think Willy Don Schaefer was our last truly effective elected leader).
I'm sure we could have a really interesting discussion of the corruption of those officials by big monied interests, primarily real estate oriented, and how that led, from a policy perspective, to tax breaks for the big commercial property owners, while elevating tax rates on residential ownership. Huge error. Both SF and Boston were in far worse shape in the 70's than Baltimore. But we went the direction of raising residential rates, while they actually decreased. (All 3 under Dem elected leadership.)
Or we could discuss the effects of redlining, both institutionally protected through even the '70's, and de facto even today.
Or we could discuss the ridiculousness of the artificial division of Baltimore from its surrounding counties, for which it is indeed the city centre for the region.
Or we could discuss the cowardice and downright treachery of business executives who sold great anchor corporations to more ambitious acquirers in order to personally get ridiculously rich, but destroying the employment and philanthropic base.
Lots of topics a cold beer and some time could cover.
Yup, feel pretty much the same way. Baltimore, like Detroit and other early 20th century industrial centers developed its significant economic problems during my lifetime. Economic trends caused the problem, the politicians failed, by giving the white population what they wanted. Significantly assisted by real estate developers, local business men, county residents and politicians and most significantly the inherent (soft) racism of too much of the area population.
The two cities I have spent the largest fractions of my life in, are Baltimore and San Francisco. Moving between the two areas a number of times. The difference is night and day. If Baltimore had been just a little more like San Francisco in terms of its population's acceptance of "the other", Baltimore would be a significantly better place today.
6ftstick wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:40 am Come on there has to be a few of you liberal progressives who'll applaud the city of Los Angeles democrats for legislating TYPHUS (and maybe the black plague) back into our 21st century civilization.
After 31.5 million dollars litigated with the homeless in LA, City & State democrats are left with the same homeless ghetto, 125 cases of TYPHUS and all the rats you could ever want. Typhus boys and girls. Enough rats to have some health experts worried about the plaque.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la- ... ch+Results
https://ktla.com/2019/05/11/los-angeles ... last-year/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ty ... ea-n917271
And democrats tell us they can clean up the carbon levels of the entire planet. But they can't clean up 50 square blocks in a city they've controlled for decades.
I think we did this to ourselves as a region, largely by not assuring all stakeholders were considered. Basic lizard brain reaction to a problem.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:11 pmYes, redlining was a huge factor. Both governmentally endorsed and de facto.jhu72 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:03 pmMDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 9:13 amIf you are responding to me, thatsmell, those were the states that 6ft cited, not me. I was just responding to those specifics.thatsmell wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 8:51 am So is Baltimore a success? Because it has been under Democrat rule and sucking off the teat of Baltimore, Montgomery, Howard and Harford Counties for a couple decades now. Just curious how I should feel about Baltimore is comparison to the states you listed.
On Baltimore, you and I probably agree that we've had a whole series of either inept or corrupt or overly racialized (or a combination) leaders of my city (I say 'my' because, though I live in Baltimore County, I consider Charm City my city. Born and raised half my childhood in the City, went to elementary, middle and high school in the City, sent my son to those same schools, worked downtown for a number of years, enjoy the cultural institutions, restaurants, etc, serve on boards of orgs focused on the City.
I don't correlate that ineptness to D vs R, but I do think one party rule has inherent issues. It invites/protects ineptitude and corruption.
But the issues of Baltimore are far more complex than just the elected leadership (I think Willy Don Schaefer was our last truly effective elected leader).
I'm sure we could have a really interesting discussion of the corruption of those officials by big monied interests, primarily real estate oriented, and how that led, from a policy perspective, to tax breaks for the big commercial property owners, while elevating tax rates on residential ownership. Huge error. Both SF and Boston were in far worse shape in the 70's than Baltimore. But we went the direction of raising residential rates, while they actually decreased. (All 3 under Dem elected leadership.)
Or we could discuss the effects of redlining, both institutionally protected through even the '70's, and de facto even today.
Or we could discuss the ridiculousness of the artificial division of Baltimore from its surrounding counties, for which it is indeed the city centre for the region.
Or we could discuss the cowardice and downright treachery of business executives who sold great anchor corporations to more ambitious acquirers in order to personally get ridiculously rich, but destroying the employment and philanthropic base.
Lots of topics a cold beer and some time could cover.
Yup, feel pretty much the same way. Baltimore, like Detroit and other early 20th century industrial centers developed its significant economic problems during my lifetime. Economic trends caused the problem, the politicians failed, by giving the white population what they wanted. Significantly assisted by real estate developers, local business men, county residents and politicians and most significantly the inherent (soft) racism of too much of the area population.
The two cities I have spent the largest fractions of my life in, are Baltimore and San Francisco. Moving between the two areas a number of times. The difference is night and day. If Baltimore had been just a little more like San Francisco in terms of its population's acceptance of "the other", Baltimore would be a significantly better place today.
Is that what you are referring to by: "...giving the white population what they wanted." ? - yes, but not exclusively.
The raising of residential property tax rates, though, may have been the single biggest impetus for white flight (and later middle class black flight), though certainly the riots of the late 60's were a factor as well.
You may also be referring to the surrounding counties' 'soft racism', the unwillingness by too many to see Baltimore as worth investing in, always attacking the challenges of urban poverty and violence as an African American cultural issue rather than endemic to poverty period. Still that way. - I don't think the soft racism ended at the city-county line.
On the more macro economic level, the shift in industrialization, and most notably the loss of the steel industry hurt immensely. But we were also incredibly ill-served by a whole slew of corporate leaders too busy putting dough in their own pockets, rather than growing their business nationally and internationally. Became the acquired. Lost corporate HQ's.
There are paths back, but it's gonna be a battle, and not a sure thing that that the stars will align.
OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:03 pm Baltimore’s Renaissance, if you will began post 1968.
Redlining was a major contributor to problems. A few items that helped stall the progress led eg Rouse Developmebt, Johnny Paterakis developments etc wet the election of Kurt Schmoke and the discontinuation or the economic development efforts that were bearing fruit; the forced sale of Maryland National Bank by ambitious OCC regulators when it wasn’t necessary, the problems at USFG which led to its downfall, White flight from the ethnic communities to places like Rosedale, the retirement of highly qualified people who were replaced by less qualified persons, the change in the culture of the City, the shortsightedness to the leadership in some of the surrounding counties. I don’t think there was ever a competent R candidate for mayor post 1960s. Don was as much Republican as he was Democrat in many ways. He didn’t really want to be governor but circumstances pushed him to run and leave the city to pro tem mayor DuBurns who lost the next election to Kurt Schmoke and dominoes began to fall. Property tax rates did not jump under Schaefer
I worked in the Dollar House Program in 1979, did my Honors Thesis in dual majors, Government and Urban Studies, on gentrification and displacement. My thesis advisor at Dartmouth was an African American female prof, who coincidentally happened to be from one of the elite black families of Baltimore and Philadelphia. As one might imagine, my thesis proposition that gentrification should be welcomed as an essential tool in the ongoing revitalization and life of any successful city, (albeit therefore requiring policies to ameliorate displacement effects) was not particularly popular in either the Government or Urban studies debts at an Ivy school of that era, a time at which rent control and the like were ascendant as policy prescriptions. But to their credit and particularly that of my thesis advisor, while they pushed me very hard, debated somewhat caustically during my thesis defense, they ultimately gave me highest honors for the work.OCanada wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:03 pm Baltimore’s Renaissance, if you will began post 1968.
Redlining was a major contributor to problems. A few items that helped stall the progress led eg Rouse Developmebt, Johnny Paterakis developments etc wet the election of Kurt Schmoke and the discontinuation or the economic development efforts that were bearing fruit; the forced sale of Maryland National Bank by ambitious OCC regulators when it wasn’t necessary, the problems at USFG which led to its downfall, White flight from the ethnic communities to places like Rosedale, the retirement of highly qualified people who were replaced by less qualified persons, the change in the culture of the City, the shortsightedness to the leadership in some of the surrounding counties. I don’t think there was ever a competent R candidate for mayor post 1960s. Don was as much Republican as he was Democrat in many ways. He didn’t really want to be governor but circumstances pushed him to run and leave the city to pro tem mayor DuBurns who lost the next election to Kurt Schmoke and dominoes began to fall. Property tax rates did not jump under Schaefer
keep grinding, cradle, it's what you're good at...cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:40 pm https://ktla.com/2019/06/04/l-a-county- ... n-tuesday/ Where are all of those FLP Hollywood folks? Too busy saving the planet to have time to save their own citizens. Maybe Los Angeles should provide free transportation to these people and relocate them to a more hospitable location in Beverly Hills. Sort of like a redo of the Beverly Hillbillies only with crack, heroin and whatever other drug thrown in for good measure. I forget... are these not the same Hollywood know it alls that lecture us on what we all need to do to help our fellow man/woman? Apparently these greedy little rich Hollywood FLP elitist snobs are not willing to pony up their own cash to help their fellow citizens where they all live way far away from all of the misery and suffering of the common folk. If I remember correctly didn't they put up a fence around the red carpet at the Oscars so the low life scum could not bother them or be seen? To quote rrr… EXACTLY.
I am not grinding. How many hours do you have under your belt helping the people in need in your community? I spent 2 plus years helping my sister and using my Class A license to drive Foodlink trucks on Saturdays to pick up and deliver food. You know NOTHING about me or the values my mom and dad gave me. You only know a very little about who I am and what I believe in... Tell us all how many times you have unselfishly donated your time/money/ expertise in anything to the people in your community that needed your help. I forget... you are a lazy ass little r republican. You probably write out checks and let the other "little" people get the blisters and calluses. In my house growing up MD there were all kinds of people who came in and out of our house. Some of them stayed a couple of nights some stayed a couple of weeks. Every single one of them was fed, given clothes when they needed, hot showers and they all had to listen to my mom give them advice on how to get their lives together.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:49 pmkeep grinding, cradle, it's what you're good at...cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:40 pm https://ktla.com/2019/06/04/l-a-county- ... n-tuesday/ Where are all of those FLP Hollywood folks? Too busy saving the planet to have time to save their own citizens. Maybe Los Angeles should provide free transportation to these people and relocate them to a more hospitable location in Beverly Hills. Sort of like a redo of the Beverly Hillbillies only with crack, heroin and whatever other drug thrown in for good measure. I forget... are these not the same Hollywood know it alls that lecture us on what we all need to do to help our fellow man/woman? Apparently these greedy little rich Hollywood FLP elitist snobs are not willing to pony up their own cash to help their fellow citizens where they all live way far away from all of the misery and suffering of the common folk. If I remember correctly didn't they put up a fence around the red carpet at the Oscars so the low life scum could not bother them or be seen? To quote rrr… EXACTLY.