Johns Hopkins 2025

[coda]

One of my favorite things about this regime is that while they might not be getting the 5 star IL cover boys like Petro did, they really seem to be exhausting all options to use the portal to boost the roster. Whether this works in the end is another matter, but it's really hard to argue against the effort they're making and the positions they've added at. You can feel a sense of urgency that really wasn't there towards the end with the last regime aside from the early recruiting.

Petro's teams didn't want to take the ball away and struggled to find good goaltending and decent SSDMs.
As a result, they got blown out a lot.
The current group values takeaways on defense, getting transfers to play in goal as opposed to early recruits, and doesn't get blown out.
Philosophical changes have gone a long way for the current program, despite the lack of high profile recruits.

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

[jhu06]

https://umbcretrievers.com/sports/mens- ... shaar/8451

In 3 games against towson (the only common jhu/umbc) he has 4gbs 4cts and 2 turnovers. He had 2 cts and 2gbs this year against the tigers. We'd more than take that.

5'11 180 also seems like decent size for an ssdm. I'm sure with whatever training they'll get him he can add whatever tweaks they may want from him between now and february 2025.

[steel_hop]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

[coda]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

heard the same story when Petro got to Hop and Cuse from DPoles. Basically said if you are not 6ft or taller, you are not going to play here. He definitely has type.

[norcalhop]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

heard the same story when Petro got to Hop and Cuse from DPoles. Basically said if you are not 6ft or taller, you are not going to play here. He definitely has type.

That is surprising as he had some small players during his tenure. Are you referring to defense specifically? Even then, it seems false.

[Late Slide]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

heard the same story when Petro got to Hop and Cuse from DPoles. Basically said if you are not 6ft or taller, you are not going to play here. He definitely has type.

And those are exactly the type that athletic middies love to pull out on a press. Come get me big boy!

[51percentcorn]

This is all bunk IMO
First off - we should let the ghost of Petro fade away - next year will be 5 years - who cares if he had a type - which again IMO he didn't (other than he wanted good players) - let's take a brief walk down memory lane post Rabil/Huntley etc.
2009 - Starting midfield - Kimmel/Bryan/Christopher - not huge people
Then starting in 2010 - we had the Greeley/Ranigan/Coppersmith etc. where the middies were definitely bigger
2014 - Starting Middies - Guida/Reed/Cattoni - again not big people at all
Then in the latter part of the decade there are really smaller players everywhere - Baskin/Keogh/Concannon/even Epstein etc. etc.

As far as an LSM not playing if he is over 6 ft tall - could have fooled me - Petro would have played Michael Pellegrino every second of every game if he could have and Pellegrino would need a step stool to get to 6 ft. - listed on the Hopkins web-site as 5'8" - A much under appreciated LSM - the Kandi man - played a key role in the 2007 title game - was 5'10"

[coda]

This is all bunk IMO
First off - we should let the ghost of Petro fade away - next year will be 5 years - who cares if he had a type - which again IMO he didn't (other than he wanted good players) - let's take a brief walk down memory lane post Rabil/Huntley etc.
2009 - Starting midfield - Kimmel/Bryan/Christopher - not huge people
Then starting in 2010 - we had the Greeley/Ranigan/Coppersmith etc. where the middies were definitely bigger
2014 - Starting Middies - Guida/Reed/Cattoni - again not big people at all
Then in the latter part of the decade there are really smaller players everywhere - Baskin/Keogh/Concannon/even Epstein etc. etc.

As far as an LSM not playing if he is over 6 ft tall - could have fooled me - Petro would have played Michael Pellegrino every second of every game if he could have and Pellegrino would need a step stool to get to 6 ft. - listed on the Hopkins web-site as 5'8" - A much under appreciated LSM - the Kandi man - played a key role in the 2007 title game - was 5'10"

wasnt meant as slam in general. I have said the one thing I respect about Petro is there is a 95% chance you will see him in a golf cart at a big tournament. Definitely one of the few coaches that takes scouting seriously. He works.

[PotomacRiver]

This is all bunk IMO
First off - we should let the ghost of Petro fade away - next year will be 5 years - who cares if he had a type - which again IMO he didn't (other than he wanted good players) - let's take a brief walk down memory lane post Rabil/Huntley etc.
2009 - Starting midfield - Kimmel/Bryan/Christopher - not huge people
Then starting in 2010 - we had the Greeley/Ranigan/Coppersmith etc. where the middies were definitely bigger
2014 - Starting Middies - Guida/Reed/Cattoni - again not big people at all
Then in the latter part of the decade there are really smaller players everywhere - Baskin/Keogh/Concannon/even Epstein etc. etc.

As far as an LSM not playing if he is over 6 ft tall - could have fooled me - Petro would have played Michael Pellegrino every second of every game if he could have and Pellegrino would need a step stool to get to 6 ft. - listed on the Hopkins web-site as 5'8" - A much under appreciated LSM - the Kandi man - played a key role in the 2007 title game - was 5'10"

A bit further back but also PJ DiConza. He was generously listed at 5'9". Played bigger than his size and one of the few who could come close to matching feet with Mike Powell.

[jhu06]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

I think he meant with defensemen.

[HopFan16]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

I think he meant with defensemen.

It's still not really true even if you limit it to defensemen.

Regardless, he'd hardly be the only coach who preferred big defensemen. Not sure that's an indefensible approach as long as you are open to smaller guys when it's clear they can play (aka Mike Pellegrino).

The bigger issue is that he didn't seem to care much about size when it came to SSDMs.

Not sure why we're talking about this but I guess it's late June and there's not a whole lot else.

[PotomacRiver]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

I think he meant with defensemen.

It's still not really true even if you limit it to defensemen.

Regardless, he'd hardly be the only coach who preferred big defensemen. Not sure that's an indefensible approach as long as you are open to smaller guys when it's clear they can play (aka Mike Pellegrino).

The bigger issue is that he didn't seem to care much about size when it came to SSDMs.

Not sure why we're talking about this but I guess it's late June and there's not a whole lot else.

Dog days of summer...

[51percentcorn]

The bigger issue is that he didn't seem to care much about size when it came to SSDMs.

Again - I hate to raise the ugly issue but it comes down to early recruiting IMO. Take Danny Jones for example. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to find an article that he verballed to Hopkins somewhere around late 2012 - early 2013. The article I saw was published January 23, 2013. He was what? 5 months into his sophomore year at St. Anthony's which logically suggests Hopkins was in contact with him in 2012? So you might well expect that essentially a high school freshman that was 5'8" whatever soaking wet - might be 5'10/5'11" 170 lbs by the time he shows up in 2015 and starts on the roster in 2016, It didn't happen - that scenario rinsed and repeated itself way too often.

[jhu06]

The bigger issue is that he didn't seem to care much about size when it came to SSDMs.

Again - I hate to raise the ugly issue but it comes down to early recruiting IMO. Take Danny Jones for example. Doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to find an article that he verballed to Hopkins somewhere around late 2012 - early 2013. The article I saw was published January 23, 2013. He was what? 5 months into his sophomore year at St. Anthony's which logically suggests Hopkins was in contact with him in 2012? So you might well expect that essentially a high school freshman that was 5'8" whatever soaking wet - might be 5'10/5'11" 170 lbs by the time he shows up in 2015 and starts on the roster in 2016, It didn't happen - that scenario rinsed and repeated itself way too often.

I leave the recruiting stats to HF16, but next year should be the first year of this regime where especially on offense most of the guys in the lineup are true PM/JK recruits or transfers, I think where we're not looking at a lineup full of guys signed when they were freshmen in hs by the old regime.

I don't pay attention to Ivy League Lacrosse so I don't know how beyond the early recruiting stuff PM's true freshmen recruits there looked different than what we've been watching from Petro's guys.

[coda]

Petro has always been a size queen. I thought late in his tenure Hopkins really lacked athleticism.

You would never know it by some of the shrimps he recruited at SSDM. Though I think part of it was he reliance on early recruiting and kids didn't grow.

I think he meant with defensemen.

It's still not really true even if you limit it to defensemen.

Regardless, he'd hardly be the only coach who preferred big defensemen. Not sure that's an indefensible approach as long as you are open to smaller guys when it's clear they can play (aka Mike Pellegrino).

The bigger issue is that he didn't seem to care much about size when it came to SSDMs.

Not sure why we're talking about this but I guess it's late June and there's not a whole lot else.

I know it is true. Heard it from Hopkins and Cuse players. He covets tall defensemen. He has coached for 30+ years, so it wont be hard to find some exceptions. Nobody said it was indefensible, people just tend to want to take any statement on the internet and make it an argument.

[Sagittarius A*]

I know it is true. Heard it from Hopkins and Cuse players. He covets tall defensemen. He has coached for 30+ years, so it wont be hard to find some exceptions. Nobody said it was indefensible, people just tend to want to take any statement on the internet and make it an argument.

I think after the success of Navy teams in the 60's, Chic and Scott concluded you needed bigger players to win. So you had a lot of size on defense and midfields like the 78-80 teams, and again in the mid 80's with Petro, Dressel, Kru, Mitchell etc. You had some smaller players like DeTo, who was about ~6', probably would have played football at Penn State if he'd gotten much bigger though. Smaller players saw the field, but the superstars were usually bigger players. Lacrosse is definitely less size determinative than football or basketball, but size can't be discounted in the sport for most roles. It would be nice to see superstars again, whatever size or shape they come in.

[coda]

I know it is true. Heard it from Hopkins and Cuse players. He covets tall defensemen. He has coached for 30+ years, so it wont be hard to find some exceptions. Nobody said it was indefensible, people just tend to want to take any statement on the internet and make it an argument.

I think after the success of Navy teams in the 60's, Chic and Scott concluded you needed bigger players to win. So you had a lot of size on defense and midfields like the 78-80 teams, and again in the mid 80's with Petro, Dressel, Kru, Mitchell etc. You had some smaller players like DeTo, who was about ~6', probably would have played football at Penn State if he'd gotten much bigger though. Smaller players saw the field, but the superstars were usually bigger players. Lacrosse is definitely less size determinative than football or basketball, but size can't be discounted in the sport for most roles. It would be nice to see superstars again, whatever size or shape they come in.

I think it is positional. Early in this thread I talked about some recruits and said better players, than recruits. I think when it comes to defense and middies, you want "physical specimens" (in lacrosse terms). That is the preference and most likely path to success. Like all things recruiting related that holds true in the aggregate, but not at the individual level. I think attack is a bit different, much more variety there.

[jhu06]

I know it is true. Heard it from Hopkins and Cuse players. He covets tall defensemen. He has coached for 30+ years, so it wont be hard to find some exceptions. Nobody said it was indefensible, people just tend to want to take any statement on the internet and make it an argument.

I think after the success of Navy teams in the 60's, Chic and Scott concluded you needed bigger players to win. So you had a lot of size on defense and midfields like the 78-80 teams, and again in the mid 80's with Petro, Dressel, Kru, Mitchell etc. You had some smaller players like DeTo, who was about ~6', probably would have played football at Penn State if he'd gotten much bigger though. Smaller players saw the field, but the superstars were usually bigger players. Lacrosse is definitely less size determinative than football or basketball, but size can't be discounted in the sport for most roles. It would be nice to see superstars again, whatever size or shape they come in.

I think it is positional. Early in this thread I talked about some recruits and said better players, than recruits. I think when it comes to defense and middies, you want "physical specimens" (in lacrosse terms). That is the preference and most likely path to success. Like all things recruiting related that holds true in the aggregate, but not at the individual level. I think attack is a bit different, much more variety there.

There were games with the 2010-2013 Durkin crew where the size on tv really really stood out. There was one game-maybe Ranagan against umbc where he just bull dodged a umbc ssdm or middie and his shoulder broke the kids stick in half. Size is nice but too many of Petro's later defensemen like kelly/enright struggled mightily in particular against the sankey/bitter 2 man game.

Don't know what happened to the inflatable Pierce Bassett Blue Jay they had at homecoming 15 years ago but loved that.

I would argue 3 of the most important moments/players of the Petro era-Benson Erwin/Jake Byrne/Schwartzmann were under 6'0.

HF16 mentioned there are some quality ssdms coming in/already on the roster who were recruited as freshmen. We saw Kilrain supplant Stuebner so it's not like the UMBC kid is sharpied into anything.

[HopFan16]

I would argue 3 of the most important moments/players of the Petro era-Benson Erwin/Jake Byrne/Schwartzmann were under 6'0.

Two of those guys were above 6'0''. You literally go out of your way to be wrong about things. Like, you didn't even need to say this. But you couldn't help yourself. It's staggering the degree to which someone can be so consistently wrong about basic facts.

[coda]

I know it is true. Heard it from Hopkins and Cuse players. He covets tall defensemen. He has coached for 30+ years, so it wont be hard to find some exceptions. Nobody said it was indefensible, people just tend to want to take any statement on the internet and make it an argument.

I think after the success of Navy teams in the 60's, Chic and Scott concluded you needed bigger players to win. So you had a lot of size on defense and midfields like the 78-80 teams, and again in the mid 80's with Petro, Dressel, Kru, Mitchell etc. You had some smaller players like DeTo, who was about ~6', probably would have played football at Penn State if he'd gotten much bigger though. Smaller players saw the field, but the superstars were usually bigger players. Lacrosse is definitely less size determinative than football or basketball, but size can't be discounted in the sport for most roles. It would be nice to see superstars again, whatever size or shape they come in.

I think it is positional. Early in this thread I talked about some recruits and said better players, than recruits. I think when it comes to defense and middies, you want "physical specimens" (in lacrosse terms). That is the preference and most likely path to success. Like all things recruiting related that holds true in the aggregate, but not at the individual level. I think attack is a bit different, much more variety there.

There were games with the 2010-2013 Durkin crew where the size on tv really really stood out. There was one game-maybe Ranagan against umbc where he just bull dodged a umbc ssdm or middie and his shoulder broke the kids stick in half. Size is nice but too many of Petro's later defensemen like kelly/enright struggled mightily in particular against the sankey/bitter 2 man game.

Don't know what happened to the inflatable Pierce Bassett Blue Jay they had at homecoming 15 years ago but loved that.

I would argue 3 of the most important moments/players of the Petro era-Benson Erwin/Jake Byrne/Schwartzmann were under 6'0.

HF16 mentioned there are some quality ssdms coming in/already on the roster who were recruited as freshmen. We saw Kilrain supplant Stuebner so it's not like the UMBC kid is sharpied into anything.

Benson Erwin listed at 6'1" 200
Bryne 5'11 and 195 at attack
Schwartzmann listed 6'1 220.

not single one of them would be considered small at the time.