Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
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Re: Allstate 12?
“I wish you would!”
Re: Allstate 12?
i don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around. pay it! if it's free, that means they want to collect more x!Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:01 pmSpoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
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- Joined: Tue May 14, 2024 11:08 pm
Re: Allstate 12?
Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:23 pmi don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around. pay it! if it's free, that means they want to collect more x!Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:01 pmSpoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
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- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: Allstate 12?
Non competes have been all but invalidated in court already.Late Slide wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:42 pmPlaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:23 pmi don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around. pay it! if it's free, that means they want to collect more x!Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:01 pmSpoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Re: Allstate 12?
The latter two.wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:23 pmi don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around...Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:01 pmSpoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
No issue with their "getting a piece of the pie." But what has gradually happened in college football and basketball over the past 40 or so years has resulted in my paying them no attention. I will follow college lacrosse, hockey and wrestling until they go too far down the same path. NIL and the transfer portal are the start of that.ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2024 4:30 pmJust out of curiosity: Why is that?
The money generated by these sports has been huge for decades now, and a number of people related to the largest revenue-generators have been making a killing for years, too...starting with the coaches, who make millions.
I mean, there are a lot of genies I'd love to shove back into a lot of bottles, but I have zero issue with the athletes who are central to these enormous windfalls finally getting a piece of the pie.
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Re: Allstate 12?
Yeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:48 amNon competes have been all but invalidated in court already.Late Slide wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:42 pm
Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.
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- Joined: Tue May 14, 2024 11:08 pm
Re: Allstate 12?
There are many versions of a "noncompete" that limit an employee's ability to transport their talents and which courts will continue to enforce. We shall see.PulpExposure wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:27 amYeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:48 amNon competes have been all but invalidated in court already.Late Slide wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:42 pm
Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.
Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
This is 180 degrees wrong.Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees.
The schools and NCAA are currently under constant assault by anti-trust lawsuits. And they lose almost all of those cases because, in the words of Justice Kavanaugh "the NCAA's business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America."
There are only two ways out for the $$$ college sports.
First, Congress grants an antitrust exemption. Possible, but not likely.
Second, reasonable restrictive rules (which all sports leagues absolutely need to operate) are collectively bargained with a player union. Unions are exempt from antitrust. So otherwise illegal collusive things like salary caps, transfer/free agency restrictions are tranformed into legally permissible when COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED FOR WITH A UNION. Without a union and collective bargaining, any unilaterally proposed and imposed NCAA rule is presumed to be an illegal restraint of trade. [Lawyer talking here fyi.]
Colleges are over-flowing with scholarship students who are also paid employees (including a couple of my own kids). They work in the library, cafeteria, as research assistants, teaching assistants, resident doctors in hospitals, etc. etc. etc. Colleges have like 100 years of experience dealing with student-employees. There is literally no legal reason why you could not easily turn student-athletes into student-athlete-employees.
And if you did that, then the new collectively bargained NCAA model would be presumptively legal rather than the current presumptively illegal model.
You may not like having $$$ college players be unionized employees. But (absent Congressional action) it is literally the ONLY legally viable path.
P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Re: Allstate 12?
Late Slide wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:38 amThere are many versions of a "noncompete" that limit an employee's ability to transport their talents and which courts will continue to enforce. We shall see.PulpExposure wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:27 amYeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:48 amNon competes have been all but invalidated in court already.Late Slide wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:42 pm
Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.
There are many states that have or are moving to ban non competes but I hear you. I think the better angle is contracts - a pro hoops player cant enter the portal mid year. Its nuts - need contracts to make the games meaningful as opposed to pick up games where you can switch teams here and there at your leisure. I believe they are working on this (legislatively)
Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
what i'm trying to figure out is are the nc$$ honchos playing roger staubach for now and relying on the congressional hail mary... still... or just trying to run out the string for a couple more years before they're forced to sit down? seems like several more years of lawsuits from all directions and upheaval to about everything isn't worth the squeeze. best i can surmise, they think the risk that the number is gonna be much bigger is too great.ggait wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:31 pmThis is 180 degrees wrong.Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees.
The schools and NCAA are currently under constant assault by anti-trust lawsuits. And they lose almost all of those cases because, in the words of Justice Kavanaugh "the NCAA's business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America."
There are only two ways out for the $$$ college sports.
First, Congress grants an antitrust exemption. Possible, but not likely.
Second, reasonable restrictive rules (which all sports leagues absolutely need to operate) are collectively bargained with a player union. Unions are exempt from antitrust. So otherwise illegal collusive things like salary caps, transfer/free agency restrictions are tranformed into legally permissible when COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED FOR WITH A UNION. Without a union and collective bargaining, any unilaterally proposed and imposed NCAA rule is presumed to be an illegal restraint of trade. [Lawyer talking here fyi.]
Colleges are over-flowing with scholarship students who are also paid employees (including a couple of my own kids). They work in the library, cafeteria, as research assistants, teaching assistants, resident doctors in hospitals, etc. etc. etc. Colleges have like 100 years of experience dealing with student-employees. There is literally no legal reason why you could not easily turn student-athletes into student-athlete-employees.
And if you did that, then the new collectively bargained NCAA model would be presumptively legal rather than the current presumptively illegal model.
You may not like having $$$ college players be unionized employees. But (absent Congressional action) it is literally the ONLY legally viable path.
P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.
Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
You do if you want to limit compensation, roster sizes, and a whole mess of other things related to compensation.ggait wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:31 pm
P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.
Right now, today, per SCOTUS ruling........ you cannot, for example, limit the number of scholarships a school gives out via a third party. So Hopkins can hand out 20 full rides for next year, and there's nothing the NCAA or the ACC can do. Can't collude to limit compensation.
Or am I missing something?
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Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
Even so-called “non-revenue” sports generate money for someone … just look at the college sports events that populate the ESPN streaming service, including lacrosse. ESPN is not showing those sports on their streaming and cable television platforms out of charity.
All college athletes should be unionized if their school is part of any media deal. Negotiated deals will vary by conference, but all college athletes should get a proportional share of the revenue.
DocBarrister
All college athletes should be unionized if their school is part of any media deal. Negotiated deals will vary by conference, but all college athletes should get a proportional share of the revenue.
DocBarrister
@DocBarrister
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Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
180 seems fairly definitive. Why not 162? I didn't realize there were exceptions under federal and state laws that would exempt actions for discrimination, wrongful termination, harassment, hostile work environment, retaliation, wage and hour, breach of contract, defamation, negligence, workplace safety standards, invasion of privacy, whistleblower claims, and others. Because that's apparently the case, I accept my error.ggait wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:31 pmThis is 180 degrees wrong.Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees.
The schools and NCAA are currently under constant assault by anti-trust lawsuits. And they lose almost all of those cases because, in the words of Justice Kavanaugh "the NCAA's business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America."
There are only two ways out for the $$$ college sports.
First, Congress grants an antitrust exemption. Possible, but not likely.
Second, reasonable restrictive rules (which all sports leagues absolutely need to operate) are collectively bargained with a player union. Unions are exempt from antitrust. So otherwise illegal collusive things like salary caps, transfer/free agency restrictions are tranformed into legally permissible when COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED FOR WITH A UNION. Without a union and collective bargaining, any unilaterally proposed and imposed NCAA rule is presumed to be an illegal restraint of trade. [Lawyer talking here fyi.]
Colleges are over-flowing with scholarship students who are also paid employees (including a couple of my own kids). They work in the library, cafeteria, as research assistants, teaching assistants, resident doctors in hospitals, etc. etc. etc. Colleges have like 100 years of experience dealing with student-employees. There is literally no legal reason why you could not easily turn student-athletes into student-athlete-employees.
And if you did that, then the new collectively bargained NCAA model would be presumptively legal rather than the current presumptively illegal model.
You may not like having $$$ college players be unionized employees. But (absent Congressional action) it is literally the ONLY legally viable path.
P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.
Last edited by Late Slide on Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Allstate 12?
In this just basketball championship dinner or would it perhaps also include women beach volleyball teams and if so what would you want for said ticket?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:01 pmSpoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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- Posts: 23826
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: Allstate 12?
Wait until you’ve got guys like Lee Wexler running around the OSU locker room like the antagonist widow owner in Major League or how Donald Sterling is portrayed in this new miniseries.10stone5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:20 amThe latter two.wgdsr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:23 pmi don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around...Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:01 pmSpoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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- Posts: 23826
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: Allstate 12?
We will, and I’m in the camp that that your projection is a bad bet. The courts will continue to enforce isn’t true. I’ve broken three in just my middling career and some cats fought me hard and got shut down. They weren’t really enforceable much before just the threat of litigation scared off prospective new lawyers it was always a strong arm tactic.Late Slide wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:38 amThere are many versions of a "noncompete" that limit an employee's ability to transport their talents and which courts will continue to enforce. We shall see.PulpExposure wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:27 amYeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:48 amNon competes have been all but invalidated in court already.Late Slide wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:42 pm
Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.
The optics of doing it to college kids is worse than the labor mobility for middle class folks story that’s altered driving things and legal opinions still come loaded with optics and interpretation. Any focus on what Lina Khan is doing with respect to this is kind of irrelevant (she’s stumbled upon being right in Atlanta on the AI doesn’t dismiss rent discrimination laws which is a stupid argument to begin with)
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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- Posts: 23826
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
You know ESPN is less than three years from being another cow for PE to “milk and churn” right?DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:32 pm Even so-called “non-revenue” sports generate money for someone … just look at the college sports events that populate the ESPN streaming service, including lacrosse. ESPN is not showing those sports on their streaming and cable television platforms out of charity.
All college athletes should be unionized if their school is part of any media deal. Negotiated deals will vary by conference, but all college athletes should get a proportional share of the revenue.
DocBarrister
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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- Posts: 34200
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm
Re: Allstate 12?
I would replace MLB with Beach Volleyball if ran a network.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:46 pmIn this just basketball championship dinner or would it perhaps also include women beach volleyball teams and if so what would you want for said ticket?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:01 pmSpoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!
“I wish you would!”
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- Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:00 pm
Re: NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al
PE firms are like the aliens in Independence Day … destructive locusts that move from target to target. A day of reckoning will come, just as it did for the mortgage-backed security scam/industry.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 9:57 pmYou know ESPN is less than three years from being another cow for PE to “milk and churn” right?DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:32 pm Even so-called “non-revenue” sports generate money for someone … just look at the college sports events that populate the ESPN streaming service, including lacrosse. ESPN is not showing those sports on their streaming and cable television platforms out of charity.
All college athletes should be unionized if their school is part of any media deal. Negotiated deals will vary by conference, but all college athletes should get a proportional share of the revenue.
DocBarrister
DocBarrister
@DocBarrister