NIL, Title IX, Power 5, future of Lax et al

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

[wgdsr]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

i don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around. pay it! if it's free, that means they want to collect more x!

[Late Slide]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

i don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around. pay it! if it's free, that means they want to collect more x!

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

i don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around. pay it! if it's free, that means they want to collect more x!

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.

Non competes have been all but invalidated in court already.

[10stone5]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

i don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around...

The latter two.

[Gobigred]

Honestly, I was a huge college football and basketball fan but my interest has certainly waned as "paying the athletes" issue has risen.

Just out of curiosity: Why is that?

The money generated by these sports has been huge for decades now, and a number of people related to the largest revenue-generators have been making a killing for years, too...starting with the coaches, who make millions.

I mean, there are a lot of genies I'd love to shove back into a lot of bottles, but I have zero issue with the athletes who are central to these enormous windfalls finally getting a piece of the pie.

No issue with their "getting a piece of the pie." But what has gradually happened in college football and basketball over the past 40 or so years has resulted in my paying them no attention. I will follow college lacrosse, hockey and wrestling until they go too far down the same path. NIL and the transfer portal are the start of that.

[PulpExposure]

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.

Non competes have been all but invalidated in court already.

Yeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.

[Late Slide]

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.

Non competes have been all but invalidated in court already.

Yeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.

There are many versions of a "noncompete" that limit an employee's ability to transport their talents and which courts will continue to enforce. We shall see.

[ggait]

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees.

This is 180 degrees wrong.

The schools and NCAA are currently under constant assault by anti-trust lawsuits. And they lose almost all of those cases because, in the words of Justice Kavanaugh "the NCAA's business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America."

There are only two ways out for the $$$ college sports.

First, Congress grants an antitrust exemption. Possible, but not likely.

Second, reasonable restrictive rules (which all sports leagues absolutely need to operate) are collectively bargained with a player union. Unions are exempt from antitrust. So otherwise illegal collusive things like salary caps, transfer/free agency restrictions are tranformed into legally permissible when COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED FOR WITH A UNION. Without a union and collective bargaining, any unilaterally proposed and imposed NCAA rule is presumed to be an illegal restraint of trade. [Lawyer talking here fyi.]

Colleges are over-flowing with scholarship students who are also paid employees (including a couple of my own kids). They work in the library, cafeteria, as research assistants, teaching assistants, resident doctors in hospitals, etc. etc. etc. Colleges have like 100 years of experience dealing with student-employees. There is literally no legal reason why you could not easily turn student-athletes into student-athlete-employees.

And if you did that, then the new collectively bargained NCAA model would be presumptively legal rather than the current presumptively illegal model.

You may not like having $$$ college players be unionized employees. But (absent Congressional action) it is literally the ONLY legally viable path.

P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.

[IvyBrown]

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.

Non competes have been all but invalidated in court already.

Yeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.

There are many versions of a "noncompete" that limit an employee's ability to transport their talents and which courts will continue to enforce. We shall see.

There are many states that have or are moving to ban non competes but I hear you. I think the better angle is contracts - a pro hoops player cant enter the portal mid year. Its nuts - need contracts to make the games meaningful as opposed to pick up games where you can switch teams here and there at your leisure. I believe they are working on this (legislatively)

[wgdsr]

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees.

This is 180 degrees wrong.

The schools and NCAA are currently under constant assault by anti-trust lawsuits. And they lose almost all of those cases because, in the words of Justice Kavanaugh "the NCAA's business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America."

There are only two ways out for the $$$ college sports.

First, Congress grants an antitrust exemption. Possible, but not likely.

Second, reasonable restrictive rules (which all sports leagues absolutely need to operate) are collectively bargained with a player union. Unions are exempt from antitrust. So otherwise illegal collusive things like salary caps, transfer/free agency restrictions are tranformed into legally permissible when COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED FOR WITH A UNION. Without a union and collective bargaining, any unilaterally proposed and imposed NCAA rule is presumed to be an illegal restraint of trade. [Lawyer talking here fyi.]

Colleges are over-flowing with scholarship students who are also paid employees (including a couple of my own kids). They work in the library, cafeteria, as research assistants, teaching assistants, resident doctors in hospitals, etc. etc. etc. Colleges have like 100 years of experience dealing with student-employees. There is literally no legal reason why you could not easily turn student-athletes into student-athlete-employees.

And if you did that, then the new collectively bargained NCAA model would be presumptively legal rather than the current presumptively illegal model.

You may not like having $$$ college players be unionized employees. But (absent Congressional action) it is literally the ONLY legally viable path.

P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.

what i'm trying to figure out is are the nc$$ honchos playing roger staubach for now and relying on the congressional hail mary... still... or just trying to run out the string for a couple more years before they're forced to sit down? seems like several more years of lawsuits from all directions and upheaval to about everything isn't worth the squeeze. best i can surmise, they think the risk that the number is gonna be much bigger is too great.

[a fan]

P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.

You do if you want to limit compensation, roster sizes, and a whole mess of other things related to compensation.


Right now, today, per SCOTUS ruling........ you cannot, for example, limit the number of scholarships a school gives out via a third party. So Hopkins can hand out 20 full rides for next year, and there's nothing the NCAA or the ACC can do. Can't collude to limit compensation.

Or am I missing something?

[DocBarrister]

Even so-called “non-revenue” sports generate money for someone … just look at the college sports events that populate the ESPN streaming service, including lacrosse. ESPN is not showing those sports on their streaming and cable television platforms out of charity.

All college athletes should be unionized if their school is part of any media deal. Negotiated deals will vary by conference, but all college athletes should get a proportional share of the revenue.

DocBarrister

[Late Slide]

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees.

This is 180 degrees wrong.

The schools and NCAA are currently under constant assault by anti-trust lawsuits. And they lose almost all of those cases because, in the words of Justice Kavanaugh "the NCAA's business model would be flatly illegal in almost any other industry in America."

There are only two ways out for the $$$ college sports.

First, Congress grants an antitrust exemption. Possible, but not likely.

Second, reasonable restrictive rules (which all sports leagues absolutely need to operate) are collectively bargained with a player union. Unions are exempt from antitrust. So otherwise illegal collusive things like salary caps, transfer/free agency restrictions are tranformed into legally permissible when COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED FOR WITH A UNION. Without a union and collective bargaining, any unilaterally proposed and imposed NCAA rule is presumed to be an illegal restraint of trade. [Lawyer talking here fyi.]

Colleges are over-flowing with scholarship students who are also paid employees (including a couple of my own kids). They work in the library, cafeteria, as research assistants, teaching assistants, resident doctors in hospitals, etc. etc. etc. Colleges have like 100 years of experience dealing with student-employees. There is literally no legal reason why you could not easily turn student-athletes into student-athlete-employees.

And if you did that, then the new collectively bargained NCAA model would be presumptively legal rather than the current presumptively illegal model.

You may not like having $$$ college players be unionized employees. But (absent Congressional action) it is literally the ONLY legally viable path.

P.S. Only the players in the $$$ sports need to be unionized. No reason to unionize non-revenue sports like lax or wrestling. For the same reasons that you don't need to unionize the debate team or the glee club. $$$ college sports are a business. Lax, wrestling, debate team and glee club are all the same -- non-business student activities. Anti-trust only applies to commerce.

180 seems fairly definitive. Why not 162? I didn't realize there were exceptions under federal and state laws that would exempt actions for discrimination, wrongful termination, harassment, hostile work environment, retaliation, wage and hour, breach of contract, defamation, negligence, workplace safety standards, invasion of privacy, whistleblower claims, and others. Because that's apparently the case, I accept my error.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

In this just basketball championship dinner or would it perhaps also include women beach volleyball teams and if so what would you want for said ticket?

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

i don't know if it's cool, weird or insane that we have all these mini-owners running around...

The latter two.

Wait until you’ve got guys like Lee Wexler running around the OSU locker room like the antagonist widow owner in Major League or how Donald Sterling is portrayed in this new miniseries.

[Farfromgeneva]

Plaintiff's lawyers will eat colleges alive if athletes are broadly considered employees. Tuition will become unaffordable. And as a booster, do not ask me to pay the salary of random athlete who will move on because their feelings were hurt last week. But then being an employee will enable use of noncompetes which would likely be limited to prohibiting transfers in conference. Don't kid yourself about the FTC proposal about banning noncompetes.That will be killed in litigation.

Non competes have been all but invalidated in court already.

Yeah was going to post (as a practicing lawyer) non-competes were pretty much dead anyways. FTC is just putting a bow on that dead corpse.

There are many versions of a "noncompete" that limit an employee's ability to transport their talents and which courts will continue to enforce. We shall see.

We will, and I’m in the camp that that your projection is a bad bet. The courts will continue to enforce isn’t true. I’ve broken three in just my middling career and some cats fought me hard and got shut down. They weren’t really enforceable much before just the threat of litigation scared off prospective new lawyers it was always a strong arm tactic.

The optics of doing it to college kids is worse than the labor mobility for middle class folks story that’s altered driving things and legal opinions still come loaded with optics and interpretation. Any focus on what Lina Khan is doing with respect to this is kind of irrelevant (she’s stumbled upon being right in Atlanta on the AI doesn’t dismiss rent discrimination laws which is a stupid argument to begin with)

[Farfromgeneva]

Even so-called “non-revenue” sports generate money for someone … just look at the college sports events that populate the ESPN streaming service, including lacrosse. ESPN is not showing those sports on their streaming and cable television platforms out of charity.

All college athletes should be unionized if their school is part of any media deal. Negotiated deals will vary by conference, but all college athletes should get a proportional share of the revenue.

DocBarrister

You know ESPN is less than three years from being another cow for PE to “milk and churn” right?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.thescore.com/ncaab/news/2926271

damn, when i heard about this, thought it must be a mega-deal. everything's got a price, and theirs is $2-3 million a school? that's laughable, actually.

Spoke with my buddy that runs an NIL collective. He is hoping that the case making it’s way in California leads to public school athletes being declared as employees and then collectively bargain. Not sure how the $22.5 million cap came about and not sure it will stand but believes NIL will stick around to fill the gap between what the expected compensation is versus the school’s capacity to pay or willingness to pay to stay competitive. He believes the schools should be paying the players not boosters. Went onto say a lot of schools will struggle to come up with $22.5 million and schools in just a basketball league are likely to be in trouble. They are scrambling. Got an invite to the championship dinner. Don’t know if that means it’s free for me but I will find out!!

In this just basketball championship dinner or would it perhaps also include women beach volleyball teams and if so what would you want for said ticket?

I would replace MLB with Beach Volleyball if ran a network.

[DocBarrister]

Even so-called “non-revenue” sports generate money for someone … just look at the college sports events that populate the ESPN streaming service, including lacrosse. ESPN is not showing those sports on their streaming and cable television platforms out of charity.

All college athletes should be unionized if their school is part of any media deal. Negotiated deals will vary by conference, but all college athletes should get a proportional share of the revenue.

DocBarrister

You know ESPN is less than three years from being another cow for PE to “milk and churn” right?

PE firms are like the aliens in Independence Day … destructive locusts that move from target to target. A day of reckoning will come, just as it did for the mortgage-backed security scam/industry.

DocBarrister