Private Schools vs Public Schools in State Playoffs

[MA Lax Fan]

As was said earlier St John’s Prep (Mass) is about to win its 3rd D1 title (in a row). It’s made D1 playoffs a snooze fest.

St. John’s now reclasses kids in 8th grade which is a huge advantage on top of already having 1,200 boys on campus.

I’m not sure of the exact number but St John’s Prep draws from roughly over 50 towns.

So, it’s a problem.

They should form a New England Catholic League with Bishop Guertin, NH - LaSalle, RI, - Fairfield Prep, CT - Boston College HS, MA - Saint John’s Prep, MA - Xaverian, MA - etc….

It would be an incredibly competitive league but would cost some money with travel expenses.

[LI13]

As was said earlier St John’s Prep (Mass) is about to win its 3rd D1 title (in a row). It’s made D1 playoffs a snooze fest.

St. John’s now reclasses kids in 8th grade which is a huge advantage on top of already having 1,200 boys on campus.

I’m not sure of the exact number but St John’s Prep draws from roughly over 50 towns.

So, it’s a problem.

They should form a New England Catholic League with Bishop Guertin, NH - LaSalle, RI, - Fairfield Prep, CT - Boston College HS, MA - Saint John’s Prep, MA - Xaverian, MA - etc….

It would be an incredibly competitive league but would cost some money with travel expenses.

The Boston area schools are already in a Catholic league (the three mentioned with Malden Catholic I believe).

[MA Lax Fan]

I understand that but come tournament time they should compete against the large Catholics of NE and have their own championship. They should not be competing for a public school championship

[wgdsr]

To be fair fellas, I lost a regional championship to a private school this year and thought it was unfair. Especially seeing how 3 starters would've ended up at my school. They went through my district K-8 and then were recruited by their club coach (who also coaches at the Private).

Worries me for the future... Am I going to have to fight off my best kids from getting recruited? Are kids going to see the success of this private school and ditch their publics? How does this effect the lacrosse in the area, overall? Plenty of underclassmen rode pine all year, but could've been all-conference players at a public.

As a public school guy myself- I hate seeing privates that can recruit run the lacrosse landscape. Especially in the nontraditional hotbeds. Someone mentioned NC, how many students would be more inclined to stay at their public school- if they knew they couldn't compete for a state championship at a private?

ok, gotcha. your question was much more about in general, and not nys state at all. 1st thing i'll say, nys has a great balance as it is for the time being, so my responses on that front remain.

but next, we're all a product of our environment. from what you've said, you're maybe at a non-hotbed which has different dynamics. you're a public school guy, i am, too.

not going to throw a lot of stuff you already know, but some that you do that i think matters:
- keep doing what you're doing. there's a lot of good in it past regional champs.
- you will lose guys. we're out i think 6 this year to privates, just those i know about and i don't investigate. our goal is to make it as an attractive place to play at as possible.. parents will make decisions, they include things out of our control.
- competitively, winning.... without knowing much about your spot, many places have pulled out public, unicorn results. something to strive for, and if you pull it off knocking them out it'll be all the sweeter. i say next 3 years.

hope it happens!

[thedisciple516]

It would be a problem IMO if they consistantly dominated but they don't. Since the advent of the NY State Lacrosse Tournament in 1977 Private schools have won exactly twice (McQuaid in 2024 and Syracuse CBA in 2017). Where is the competative advantage? In theory yes they have one because they can "recruit" but in practice it hasn't turned out that way. You're complaining now that they won this year but weren't complaining when they weren't winning 95% of the time?

Most of the upstate private schools are small (unlike St. Anthony's and Chaminade) and play in the higher classifications so there isn't much of a competative advanatage. All of the big private schools are not in the NYSPHAA (downstate and Buffalo).

[Laxboy78]

As was said earlier St John’s Prep (Mass) is about to win its 3rd D1 title (in a row). It’s made D1 playoffs a snooze fest.

St. John’s now reclasses kids in 8th grade which is a huge advantage on top of already having 1,200 boys on campus.

I’m not sure of the exact number but St John’s Prep draws from roughly over 50 towns.

So, it’s a problem.

They should form a New England Catholic League with Bishop Guertin, NH - LaSalle, RI, - Fairfield Prep, CT - Boston College HS, MA - Saint John’s Prep, MA - Xaverian, MA - etc….

It would be an incredibly competitive league but would cost some money with travel expenses.

It would be their 4th in a row! Do you have info that the school is telling kids to reclass or their crazy parents do it on their own?

[flyerfan17]

As was said earlier St John’s Prep (Mass) is about to win its 3rd D1 title (in a row). It’s made D1 playoffs a snooze fest.

St. John’s now reclasses kids in 8th grade which is a huge advantage on top of already having 1,200 boys on campus.

I’m not sure of the exact number but St John’s Prep draws from roughly over 50 towns.

So, it’s a problem.

They should form a New England Catholic League with Bishop Guertin, NH - LaSalle, RI, - Fairfield Prep, CT - Boston College HS, MA - Saint John’s Prep, MA - Xaverian, MA - etc….

It would be an incredibly competitive league but would cost some money with travel expenses.

It would be their 4th in a row! Do you have info that the school is telling kids to reclass or their crazy parents do it on their own?

You can't be 19 years old and play HS in NYS. Wouldn't a lot of re-classing bring kids to 19 as a senior ? Is that allowed in MA ?

[Laxboy78]

I think in Mass if you turn 19 during senior year you can play.

[Can Opener]

As was said earlier St John’s Prep (Mass) is about to win its 3rd D1 title (in a row). It’s made D1 playoffs a snooze fest.

St. John’s now reclasses kids in 8th grade which is a huge advantage on top of already having 1,200 boys on campus.

I’m not sure of the exact number but St John’s Prep draws from roughly over 50 towns.

So, it’s a problem.

They should form a New England Catholic League with Bishop Guertin, NH - LaSalle, RI, - Fairfield Prep, CT - Boston College HS, MA - Saint John’s Prep, MA - Xaverian, MA - etc….

It would be an incredibly competitive league but would cost some money with travel expenses.

It would be their 4th in a row! Do you have info that the school is telling kids to reclass or their crazy parents do it on their own?

You can't be 19 years old and play HS in NYS. Wouldn't a lot of re-classing bring kids to 19 as a senior ? Is that allowed in MA ?

You can play in NYS after you turn 19 as long as you turned 19 after July 1 going into your senior year. That’s why you don’t see kids sitting out their senior season just because they were held back once in elementary school for academic, health or family reasons.
https://www.hufsd.edu/assets/pdfs/athle ... bility.pdf

[pcowlax]

That seems a very weird rule. The only time the “you can only play until your 19th birthday” part would seem to apply then is if you turn 19 while still a junior. Even with repeats and holdbacks, that is very, very old.

[wgdsr]

That seems a very weird rule. The only time the “you can only play until your 19th birthday” part would seem to apply then is if you turn 19 while still a junior. Even with repeats and holdbacks, that is very, very old.

it isn't for going into senior year, the op is incorrect. it's making an exception if a spring sport bleeds into july. you essentially cannot turn 19 and be playing.

[LI13]

IMO you should not be able to play if you were 19 before the season began. That's very old for a high school senior. It's one thing to turn 19 just before graduation or something but to be 19 even before the school year starts?

To be fair I've developed stronger feelings on this since I've had a son and started him early in kindergarten due to academic and social factors. Grade based sports are all basically "playing up" for him now. He will be 16 for a full month as a senior in high school and it's crazy to me that kids more than 2 years older than him could be in the same grade.

[Laxxal22]

I think NEPSAC and the MIAA (Massachusetts version) have the same age rule, you can't be 19 before 9/1 of your graduating year, but I believe the MIAA only allows you to play four years of high school sports. So unless you start kindergarten at an age that would have you finish high school at 19, you need to repeat at some point to graduate at prep school age. I believe that is why MA Lax Fan referenced St. John's Prep having kids reclass in middle school, and use a loophole to reclass before the four year clock on the MIAA goes into effect. ISL schools can welcome reclasses later in the process and a lot of other NEPSAC schools will take PGs. All should be playing under the same maximum age guideline though.

[wgdsr]

IMO you should not be able to play if you were 19 before the season began. That's very old for a high school senior. It's one thing to turn 19 just before graduation or something but to be 19 even before the school year starts?

To be fair I've developed stronger feelings on this since I've had a son and started him early in kindergarten due to academic and social factors. Grade based sports are all basically "playing up" for him now. He will be 16 for a full month as a senior in high school and it's crazy to me that kids more than 2 years older than him could be in the same grade.

head on a swivel bc it looks like the ihsaa rule is you can't have turned 20 by the scheduled state champ date for your sport. i'll reiterate, in ny you cannot play if you are 19 years old (unless spring games go into july).

might be time to be thinking about coming home again! i know of more than a couple people who were very young or even skipped a grade. all very successful, without exception.

[LI13]

IMO you should not be able to play if you were 19 before the season began. That's very old for a high school senior. It's one thing to turn 19 just before graduation or something but to be 19 even before the school year starts?

To be fair I've developed stronger feelings on this since I've had a son and started him early in kindergarten due to academic and social factors. Grade based sports are all basically "playing up" for him now. He will be 16 for a full month as a senior in high school and it's crazy to me that kids more than 2 years older than him could be in the same grade.

head on a swivel bc it looks like the ihsaa rule is you can't have turned 20 by the scheduled state champ date for your sport. i'll reiterate, in ny you cannot play if you are 19 years old (unless spring games go into july).

might be time to be thinking about coming home again! i know of more than a couple people who were very young or even skipped a grade. all very successful, without exception.

You will not find me arguing that the IHSAA does everything right! But under the NY rule as I understand it, a kid can play in the state championship if he turns 20 in 3 weeks, so not much better for spring sports.

Unfortunately the taxes and cost of living make Long Island not a particularly convenient place to live, in any case.

[LI13]

IMO you should not be able to play if you were 19 before the season began. That's very old for a high school senior. It's one thing to turn 19 just before graduation or something but to be 19 even before the school year starts?

To be fair I've developed stronger feelings on this since I've had a son and started him early in kindergarten due to academic and social factors. Grade based sports are all basically "playing up" for him now. He will be 16 for a full month as a senior in high school and it's crazy to me that kids more than 2 years older than him could be in the same grade.

head on a swivel bc it looks like the ihsaa rule is you can't have turned 20 by the scheduled state champ date for your sport. i'll reiterate, in ny you cannot play if you are 19 years old (unless spring games go into july).

might be time to be thinking about coming home again! i know of more than a couple people who were very young or even skipped a grade. all very successful, without exception.

I do appreciate the anecdotes about being young and successful. I worry about whether I've done the right thing because he loves sports but he is always competing with kids who are 12-18 months older than he is. Not that I expect him to be a D1 athlete but I've been watching the current hold back and reclass trend with some trepidation.

[wgdsr]

IMO you should not be able to play if you were 19 before the season began. That's very old for a high school senior. It's one thing to turn 19 just before graduation or something but to be 19 even before the school year starts?

To be fair I've developed stronger feelings on this since I've had a son and started him early in kindergarten due to academic and social factors. Grade based sports are all basically "playing up" for him now. He will be 16 for a full month as a senior in high school and it's crazy to me that kids more than 2 years older than him could be in the same grade.

head on a swivel bc it looks like the ihsaa rule is you can't have turned 20 by the scheduled state champ date for your sport. i'll reiterate, in ny you cannot play if you are 19 years old (unless spring games go into july).

might be time to be thinking about coming home again! i know of more than a couple people who were very young or even skipped a grade. all very successful, without exception.

I do appreciate the anecdotes about being young and successful. I worry about whether I've done the right thing because he loves sports but he is always competing with kids who are 12-18 months older than he is. Not that I expect him to be a D1 athlete but I've been watching the current hold back and reclass trend with some trepidation.

i'm sure you're doing and will do the right thing. one thing i'll say that can meaningfully close that gap is strength training. which can bleed to speed, fast twitch on workouts. course i don't know if he's in 2nd grade or whatever. wish i'd done it sooner than college, and encouraged it earlier for one of my guys.

elementary or middle school, that's like pushups, situps and same type for legs. here's the trick -- males are vain, like anybody. doesn't have to be a marinovich situation. tell him to give you 3 or 4 weeks, with some carrot at the end for a reachable/unreachable goal (i.e. 100 pushups in a row). if he wants to pause after that, no biggie. you can see significant gains, and the kid that sees not only that but how it projects positively for them on and off the field will want to continue.

either way, sounds like he may win on academics and other. good luck!

[ardilla secreta]

Lets look at Delaware.
Salesianium School in Wilmington, DE has built quite a program and dominates the state and they can do so by routinely pulling players from nearby hotspots in Chester County PA. They were ranked #15 by IL with loses only to #1 Lawrenceville 8-9 OT and #6 Malvern Prep 8-9 and wins over St Mary’s Annapolis, Chaminade and Radnor. Yet they still choose to plow through the other schools for state titles. Maybe it’s time to move on.

They’ve won state titles in 1995, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024. This year they won the final by 16-6 which is pretty routine now.

[wgdsr]

Lets look at Delaware.
Salesianium School in Wilmington, DE has built quite a program and dominates the state and they can do so by routinely pulling players from nearby hotspots in Chester County PA. They were ranked #15 by IL with loses only to #1 Lawrenceville 8-9 OT and #6 Malvern Prep 8-9 and wins over St Mary’s Annapolis, Chaminade and Radnor. Yet they still choose to plow through the other schools for state titles. Maybe it’s time to move on.

They’ve won state titles in 1995, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024. This year they won the final by 16-6 which is pretty routine now.

agreed. 13 state titles since 2007 for a private, can legitimately schedule anyone they want, i'd say that ship left the port awhile ago.

[LI13]

Lets look at Delaware.
Salesianium School in Wilmington, DE has built quite a program and dominates the state and they can do so by routinely pulling players from nearby hotspots in Chester County PA. They were ranked #15 by IL with loses only to #1 Lawrenceville 8-9 OT and #6 Malvern Prep 8-9 and wins over St Mary’s Annapolis, Chaminade and Radnor. Yet they still choose to plow through the other schools for state titles. Maybe it’s time to move on.

They’ve won state titles in 1995, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024. This year they won the final by 16-6 which is pretty routine now.

agreed. 13 state titles since 2007 for a private, can legitimately schedule anyone they want, i'd say that ship left the port awhile ago.

This is what happened with Culver in Indiana. They used to compete for state titles but as they started getting better and pulling kids from further away they left the state association and scheduled nationally. They field a B team that competes for state titles and is usually in the top 5 or 6 in the state.