Israel and West Bank Settlements

[Matnum PI]

... I'm glad that my dad and so many others of his generation gave so much and sacrificed so much.

amen

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/politics ... index.html

[jhu72]

Military personnel to tell congress to stop funding Israel.

They trying to break the world record for Irony?

... different men and woman at a different time.

Maybe. Do we know if these folks were part of the Drone program? Or were part of hammering Syria?

We'd have to ask them. But you have to admit, having the US Military lecture folks about unintentionally killing civilians is a bit......something.

... certainly doing it and claiming they spoke for the entire military. These folks are doing it as private citizens. They same way some college kids are, the same way some American Jews are, etc. You had one recent vet do his best Buddhist monk impersonation a few months back over this issue.

Protest is the most American thing you can do.

I just hope these troops aren't surprised when they're put into a warzone....well, I hope they're NEVER in one, obviously.....but warzones call for immoral actions every day.

Isn’t war just socially condoned immorality?

Yep. Which is what Cradle has been trying to tell folks.

It's why we're supposed to avoid them at all costs. Outthink our problems, and find smart solutions...... instead of shooting first, and worrying about the death and destruction part later.

When does immorality pass into genocide??

[jhu72]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/07/politics ... index.html

... no surprise.

[Matnum PI]

When does immorality pass into genocide??

72, who are you suggesting is attempting, let alone committing genocide?

gen·o·cide
/ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

[a fan]

Military personnel to tell congress to stop funding Israel.

They trying to break the world record for Irony?

... different men and woman at a different time.

Maybe. Do we know if these folks were part of the Drone program? Or were part of hammering Syria?

We'd have to ask them. But you have to admit, having the US Military lecture folks about unintentionally killing civilians is a bit......something.

... certainly doing it and claiming they spoke for the entire military. These folks are doing it as private citizens. They same way some college kids are, the same way some American Jews are, etc. You had one recent vet do his best Buddhist monk impersonation a few months back over this issue.

Protest is the most American thing you can do.

I just hope these troops aren't surprised when they're put into a warzone....well, I hope they're NEVER in one, obviously.....but warzones call for immoral actions every day.

Isn’t war just socially condoned immorality?

Yep. Which is what Cradle has been trying to tell folks.

It's why we're supposed to avoid them at all costs. Outthink our problems, and find smart solutions...... instead of shooting first, and worrying about the death and destruction part later.

When does immorality pass into genocide??

For me? After years of pounding the Afghanis AFTER we popped Bin Laden. Or arming the Iraq's under Reagan, and then showing up to wipe them out a few years later under Bush. Or how about our drone program? If you stuck a microphone in front of an American, could they tell you how many civilians we killed over in Afghanistan over twenty years of war? Twenty years!!!!!y

I condemn ALL of this sh9t. Every last bit of pointless war, where the old men who start the wars sit back and suck on quail bones while women, children, and young men get slaughtered over.....nothing.

[jhu72]

When does immorality pass into genocide??

72, who are you suggesting is attempting, let alone committing genocide?

gen·o·cide
/ˈjenəˌsīd/
noun
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

... sure looks like what is going on in Gaza under the direction of some in the Israeli government. The government can't keep saying "oops we didn't mean too, it was an accident", before civilized people are going to start calling it something besides an accident. I can't believe you are happy about what is going on in Gaza.

[cradleandshoot]

Military personnel to tell congress to stop funding Israel.

They trying to break the world record for Irony?

... different men and woman at a different time.

Maybe. Do we know if these folks were part of the Drone program? Or were part of hammering Syria?

We'd have to ask them. But you have to admit, having the US Military lecture folks about unintentionally killing civilians is a bit......something.

... certainly doing it and claiming they spoke for the entire military. These folks are doing it as private citizens. They same way some college kids are, the same way some American Jews are, etc. You had one recent vet do his best Buddhist monk impersonation a few months back over this issue.

Protest is the most American thing you can do.

I just hope these troops aren't surprised when they're put into a warzone....well, I hope they're NEVER in one, obviously.....but warzones call for immoral actions every day.

Isn’t war just socially condoned immorality?

Yep. Which is what Cradle has been trying to tell folks.

It's why we're supposed to avoid them at all costs. Outthink our problems, and find smart solutions...... instead of shooting first, and worrying about the death and destruction part later.

When does immorality pass into genocide??

For me? After years of pounding the Afghanis AFTER we popped Bin Laden. Or arming the Iraq's under Reagan, and then showing up to wipe them out a few years later under Bush. Or how about our drone program? If you stuck a microphone in front of an American, could they tell you how many civilians we killed over in Afghanistan over twenty years of war? Twenty years!!!!!y

I condemn ALL of this sh9t. Every last bit of pointless war, where the old men who start the wars sit back and suck on quail bones while women, children, and young men get slaughtered over.....nothing.

You accidentally left out BHOs missile attacks to take out bad actors hiding in Pakistan. Hell I thought Pakistan was on our side? That is neither here nor there. Anybody know what the collateral casualty rates were?

[jhu72]

Military personnel to tell congress to stop funding Israel.

They trying to break the world record for Irony?

... different men and woman at a different time.

Maybe. Do we know if these folks were part of the Drone program? Or were part of hammering Syria?

We'd have to ask them. But you have to admit, having the US Military lecture folks about unintentionally killing civilians is a bit......something.

... certainly doing it and claiming they spoke for the entire military. These folks are doing it as private citizens. They same way some college kids are, the same way some American Jews are, etc. You had one recent vet do his best Buddhist monk impersonation a few months back over this issue.

Protest is the most American thing you can do.

I just hope these troops aren't surprised when they're put into a warzone....well, I hope they're NEVER in one, obviously.....but warzones call for immoral actions every day.

Isn’t war just socially condoned immorality?

Yep. Which is what Cradle has been trying to tell folks.

It's why we're supposed to avoid them at all costs. Outthink our problems, and find smart solutions...... instead of shooting first, and worrying about the death and destruction part later.

When does immorality pass into genocide??

For me? After years of pounding the Afghanis AFTER we popped Bin Laden. Or arming the Iraq's under Reagan, and then showing up to wipe them out a few years later under Bush. Or how about our drone program? If you stuck a microphone in front of an American, could they tell you how many civilians we killed over in Afghanistan over twenty years of war? Twenty years!!!!!y

I condemn ALL of this sh9t. Every last bit of pointless war, where the old men who start the wars sit back and suck on quail bones while women, children, and young men get slaughtered over.....nothing.

... never had a doubt you felt this way. The world in this case believes they see a line that has been crossed. This really looks like it has become something beyond the typical national hypocrisy. It is the numbers.

[a fan]

Military personnel to tell congress to stop funding Israel.

They trying to break the world record for Irony?

... different men and woman at a different time.

Maybe. Do we know if these folks were part of the Drone program? Or were part of hammering Syria?

We'd have to ask them. But you have to admit, having the US Military lecture folks about unintentionally killing civilians is a bit......something.

... certainly doing it and claiming they spoke for the entire military. These folks are doing it as private citizens. They same way some college kids are, the same way some American Jews are, etc. You had one recent vet do his best Buddhist monk impersonation a few months back over this issue.

Protest is the most American thing you can do.

I just hope these troops aren't surprised when they're put into a warzone....well, I hope they're NEVER in one, obviously.....but warzones call for immoral actions every day.

Isn’t war just socially condoned immorality?

Yep. Which is what Cradle has been trying to tell folks.

It's why we're supposed to avoid them at all costs. Outthink our problems, and find smart solutions...... instead of shooting first, and worrying about the death and destruction part later.

When does immorality pass into genocide??

For me? After years of pounding the Afghanis AFTER we popped Bin Laden. Or arming the Iraq's under Reagan, and then showing up to wipe them out a few years later under Bush. Or how about our drone program? If you stuck a microphone in front of an American, could they tell you how many civilians we killed over in Afghanistan over twenty years of war? Twenty years!!!!!y

I condemn ALL of this sh9t. Every last bit of pointless war, where the old men who start the wars sit back and suck on quail bones while women, children, and young men get slaughtered over.....nothing.

... never had a doubt you felt this way. The world in this case believes they see a line that has been crossed. This really looks like it has become something beyond the typical national hypocrisy. It is the numbers.

And I agree with them!!!! I despise ALL this sh(t...what Hamas did on Oct. 7th, too!!! Counterproductive, and a pointless waste of life, for no reason.

[cradleandshoot]

Military personnel to tell congress to stop funding Israel.

They trying to break the world record for Irony?

... different men and woman at a different time.

Maybe. Do we know if these folks were part of the Drone program? Or were part of hammering Syria?

We'd have to ask them. But you have to admit, having the US Military lecture folks about unintentionally killing civilians is a bit......something.

... certainly doing it and claiming they spoke for the entire military. These folks are doing it as private citizens. They same way some college kids are, the same way some American Jews are, etc. You had one recent vet do his best Buddhist monk impersonation a few months back over this issue.

Protest is the most American thing you can do.

I just hope these troops aren't surprised when they're put into a warzone....well, I hope they're NEVER in one, obviously.....but warzones call for immoral actions every day.

Isn’t war just socially condoned immorality?

Yep. Which is what Cradle has been trying to tell folks.

It's why we're supposed to avoid them at all costs. Outthink our problems, and find smart solutions...... instead of shooting first, and worrying about the death and destruction part later.

When does immorality pass into genocide??

For me? After years of pounding the Afghanis AFTER we popped Bin Laden. Or arming the Iraq's under Reagan, and then showing up to wipe them out a few years later under Bush. Or how about our drone program? If you stuck a microphone in front of an American, could they tell you how many civilians we killed over in Afghanistan over twenty years of war? Twenty years!!!!!y

I condemn ALL of this sh9t. Every last bit of pointless war, where the old men who start the wars sit back and suck on quail bones while women, children, and young men get slaughtered over.....nothing.

... never had a doubt you felt this way. The world in this case believes they see a line that has been crossed. This really looks like it has become something beyond the typical national hypocrisy. It is the numbers.

A line was crossed on October 7. Hamas decided it was a good idea to declare war on Israel. Israel decided to oblige Hamas by declaring war on them. War is Hell Doc. That war in Ukraine that you so rabidly support is also causing a lot of death and destruction to make the grim reaper happy for years. Funny how your so adept at moving your war out of your conscience thoughts.

[Matnum PI]

... sure looks like what is going on in Gaza under the direction of some in the Israeli government. The government can't keep saying "oops we didn't mean too, it was an accident", before civilized people are going to start calling it something besides an accident.

As many have said within this thread, myself included, war is awful for many reasons including the inevitable death of civilians, of innocents. Israel and Hamas/Palestine are at war. Worse, this is a war where one side has explicitly and purposely chosen to use civilians as a weapon of war. An undeniably awful situation but far from a situation that would be defined as genocide.

I can't believe you are happy about what is going on in Gaza.

Why in heaven's name would you think I'm happy about what is going on in Gaza?!

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/is ... rt/3242032

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2024/is-isr ... e-in-gaza/

It’s a mess

[Matnum PI]

To insinuate that Israel is, let alone accuse Israel of being, a genocidal nation is no small matter. I'm fully aware that there are people on earth, including journalists, who will believe this to be true. Personally, I'd make sure that my information, my evidence was rock solid before making an accusation of this ilk. This, most certainly, is not a small accusation.

[cradleandshoot]

So what does a cease fire solve? The desired effect is the unfettered flow of food and medicine into Gaza. A noble goal if Hamas has NOTHING to do with the distribution of this side. At the end of the day despite the lack of a formal declaration Israel and Hamas are at war.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Thousands of Jewish nationalists, some of them chanting “Death to Arabs” and other racist slogans, paraded on Thursday through the main Palestinian thoroughfare of Jerusalem’s Old City, in an annual display that caused new friction between Jews and Palestinians in the tense city.

"Several lawmakers in Israel’s new far-right governing coalition, including National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, joined the procession."

[Typical Lax Dad]

To insinuate that Israel is, let alone accuse Israel of being, a genocidal nation is no small matter. I'm fully aware that there are people on earth, including journalists, who will believe this to be true. Personally, I'd make sure that my information, my evidence was rock solid before making an accusation of this ilk. This, most certainly, is not a small accusation.

There are no clean hands in this mess. Just to be clear, I would not equate what Israel is doing as genocide. I am not making any accusations other than two wrongs don’t make a right but that is naive. When I saw the issue of genocide raised here, I wondered if anyone else had looked into it and the rationale for their assessment. Usually people posting here are not the first people to think of it so I wanted to post what other people that have spent more time on the issue think of it. Disregard for innocent people don’t automatically make it genocide in my opinion. Since it came up, I was wondering what the standard is for “genocide” and I imagine there is a point in which killing could be classified as such. Some of the examples given in those articles are clear examples. I don’t believe Israel’s response should be characterized as genocide but at some point someone may characterize it as such. Who knows.

It’s awful. Hamas is a terrorist organization that doesn’t represent many of the people being killed, unfortunately. Pretty sure you know more about the issues there than I do. I just really started looking into these issues two or three months ago so I really can’t conclude much of anything other than there has been a lot of indiscriminate killing on both sides. It’s a mess.

[jhu72]

Thousands of Jewish nationalists, some of them chanting “Death to Arabs” and other racist slogans, paraded on Thursday through the main Palestinian thoroughfare of Jerusalem’s Old City, in an annual display that caused new friction between Jews and Palestinians in the tense city.

"Several lawmakers in Israel’s new far-right governing coalition, including National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir, joined the procession."

,,, none of this is new as of Oct 7!!! Israeli right wing hard liners, fascist Israeli's, have been attacking and killing Palestinians in the Golan trying to drive them out, for years and years. Raising tensions, while ignoring Hamas and Gaza, waiting for that pot to boil! Israeli hard liners are trying to use the Hamas reaction on Oct. 7 as an excuse. It's all the Palestinian's fault. Bullsh*t! Only fools think this was all started by Hamas!! Bibi and his fascist friends are absolutely complicit! They think the world is going to buy their excuse, their false flag operation -- the world won't and in the end neither will the citizens of the U.S. All the Israeli propaganda currently directed at the U.S. will not change the arc now developing in the U.S.

Hamas are bad actors, the current Israeli government is no better!

You want to save Israel -- stop killing Palestinians! Stop trying to sell it as "war is hell" acceptable casualties.

PS - Natty this is not directed at you, just a place to put my response, I was reading your post - you obviously get it.

[jhu72]

... sure looks like what is going on in Gaza under the direction of some in the Israeli government. The government can't keep saying "oops we didn't mean too, it was an accident", before civilized people are going to start calling it something besides an accident.

As many have said within this thread, myself included, war is awful for many reasons including the inevitable death of civilians, of innocents. Israel and Hamas/Palestine are at war. Worse, this is a war where one side has explicitly and purposely chosen to use civilians as a weapon of war. An undeniably awful situation but far from a situation that would be defined as genocide.

I can't believe you are happy about what is going on in Gaza.

Why in heaven's name would you think I'm happy about what is going on in Gaza?!

Should have phrased it "I don't believe ..." Sorry.

[jhu72]

Jerusalem Post: The end of Bibism. We'll see.