You ever notice the similarities in circumstances around Alexander and Jesus?PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:57 amWe “know” Jesus walked the Earth, or some believe so. Ever study epistomology?OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:10 am Following up on a few rabbit trails that developed under the 2024 topic a couple few days ago...
We know Jesus walked the earth. We have what he said preserved in the four gospels. He affirmed the stories of Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah, the Flood, Lot, Sodom and Gomorrah, and many other stories and figures of the Old Testament.
The Bible is a remarkably preserved and reliable historical and archaeological document. There is a science to verifying and authenticating ancient manuscripts. When were they written? How long a period between the time they were written and the first fragments/copies appeared? How many fragments/copies do we now have? How many discrepancies occur in comparing the fragments/copies? In all this criteria, the 66 books/letters that make up the Bible are THE most reliable ancient manuscripts in history. None of the others come close to measuring up to them. If we question the reliability of the books of the Bible under the established and accepted criteria for verifying ancient manuscripts, then all ancient manuscripts fail miserably.
The Old Testament is stunning in its many fulfilled prophecies, including minute details about the life, method of execution and resurrection of Christ hundreds of years before he was born. Not to mention the reforming of the State of Israel after thousands of years of exile.
Jesus spoke about sexual immorality (from the Greek word porneia, translated as fornication in old English King James). But what was he referencing? He knew what the Law (first five books of the Old Testament) said about it. Paul also affirmed what the Law said about sexual immorality.
Apologists against the value/truthfulness/reliability of the Scriptures (literally: the Writings) have been around for centuries. But let those with (credit to Kellyanne Conway for the phrase) alternative facts have at it.
Religion in America
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Re: Jesus is the Key
“I wish you would!”
- OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Jesus is the Key
I'd be interested to hear more. Any examples?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:30 am You ever notice the similarities in circumstances around Alexander and Jesus?
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Re: Jesus is the Key
I read a book The Nature of Alexander maybe 20 years ago. I just noticed some similarities. I just ran across this:OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:44 amI'd be interested to hear more. Any examples?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:30 am You ever notice the similarities in circumstances around Alexander and Jesus?
https://www.quora.com/Was-Jesus-Christ- ... -the-Great
And this:
Abstract
Alexander the Great and Jesus Christ are diametrically opposed. One lived a life of violence, the other shed his own blood for the sake of humanity. One was an agonistic and egotistic leader of men, the other walked selflessly and alone. One gained his victories in this world, the other is to do so in the next. The example set by Alexander inspired a fashion of self-divinization. The influence of this new-found fashion on the philosophy of religion is manifest in the famous theory of Euhemeros the Messenian, who argued that Ouranos, Kronos, and Zeus had all once been humans, and that they were deified as a reward for their benefactions to mankind. Yet there are also many memes shared by both Jesus and Alexander, including Divine sonship, dual paternity, virgin birth, moral choice in the face of temptation, world rule, mission for the benefit of humankind, death at a young age before the mission is complete and, finally, apotheosis.
There were definitely similarities in their stories.
“I wish you would!”
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Re: Jesus is the Key
Very interesting. Thank you.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:44 amI read a book The Nature of Alexander maybe 20 years ago. I just noticed some similarities. I just ran across this:OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:44 amI'd be interested to hear more. Any examples?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:30 am You ever notice the similarities in circumstances around Alexander and Jesus?
https://www.quora.com/Was-Jesus-Christ- ... -the-Great
And this:
Abstract
Alexander the Great and Jesus Christ are diametrically opposed. One lived a life of violence, the other shed his own blood for the sake of humanity. One was an agonistic and egotistic leader of men, the other walked selflessly and alone. One gained his victories in this world, the other is to do so in the next. The example set by Alexander inspired a fashion of self-divinization. The influence of this new-found fashion on the philosophy of religion is manifest in the famous theory of Euhemeros the Messenian, who argued that Ouranos, Kronos, and Zeus had all once been humans, and that they were deified as a reward for their benefactions to mankind. Yet there are also many memes shared by both Jesus and Alexander, including Divine sonship, dual paternity, virgin birth, moral choice in the face of temptation, world rule, mission for the benefit of humankind, death at a young age before the mission is complete and, finally, apotheosis.
There were definitely similarities in their stories.
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Re: Jesus is the Key
The book The Nature of Alexander is excellent. Many references to real time writings about Alexander and events surrounding him. An Iranian friend talked so much about Alexander when we were in graduate school that it prompted me to read more about him. Really a remarkable person. Influenced the way we live today. Same is true of Napoleon.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:59 amVery interesting. Thank you.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 10:44 amI read a book The Nature of Alexander maybe 20 years ago. I just noticed some similarities. I just ran across this:OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:44 amI'd be interested to hear more. Any examples?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:30 am You ever notice the similarities in circumstances around Alexander and Jesus?
https://www.quora.com/Was-Jesus-Christ- ... -the-Great
And this:
Abstract
Alexander the Great and Jesus Christ are diametrically opposed. One lived a life of violence, the other shed his own blood for the sake of humanity. One was an agonistic and egotistic leader of men, the other walked selflessly and alone. One gained his victories in this world, the other is to do so in the next. The example set by Alexander inspired a fashion of self-divinization. The influence of this new-found fashion on the philosophy of religion is manifest in the famous theory of Euhemeros the Messenian, who argued that Ouranos, Kronos, and Zeus had all once been humans, and that they were deified as a reward for their benefactions to mankind. Yet there are also many memes shared by both Jesus and Alexander, including Divine sonship, dual paternity, virgin birth, moral choice in the face of temptation, world rule, mission for the benefit of humankind, death at a young age before the mission is complete and, finally, apotheosis.
There were definitely similarities in their stories.
“I wish you would!”
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rattlesnake thru jesus
any good books on Joseph Brandt ?
but, whle the voices in the creek beds, gorges, etc. continue to astound suck (voices are ever lasting "waves", yes? waves, continue, onward, stated the physics Prof. )............the jesus that suck knows is the America's jesus.
jesus' killing of fellow humans, during his 17 year disappearances and crack cocaine binging of 17 years. ( only STIMULANTS in the America's, not debbie downer, type drugs. Think about it. Coke. Chocolate. Coffee. Tobacco. frog acid, mushrooms. Not pot or heroin, downer stuff.
I can't wait to find a "stone pipe" in a creek bed. Maybe jesus smoked tobacco thru it. who knows.
although........not sure if jesus was speaking to me, when seeing a timber rattlesnake curving its massive girth over a fallen branch......slowing making its way towards me. about covid social distancing away. What a beautiful create, rattlesnake jesus. Easily 6 feet long.
Katholics eat jesus' body. rattlesnake, roasted on a fire.....ummy good.
thank you jesus rattlesnake, for providing suck your body and blood.
guess rattlesnake jesus, upon his return to the "holy land", acted like crack whore Hunter, and just couldn't help but hanging out with low lifes.......like rattlesnake jesus did in the America's. (man.....the blood bath human sacrifices while all coked up are almost unforgiveable. almost. When rattlesnake jesus headed "north", he stopped his slaughtering ways. Tobacco is a more mellow buzz. and, when only quitting, does one get enraged.
but, whle the voices in the creek beds, gorges, etc. continue to astound suck (voices are ever lasting "waves", yes? waves, continue, onward, stated the physics Prof. )............the jesus that suck knows is the America's jesus.
jesus' killing of fellow humans, during his 17 year disappearances and crack cocaine binging of 17 years. ( only STIMULANTS in the America's, not debbie downer, type drugs. Think about it. Coke. Chocolate. Coffee. Tobacco. frog acid, mushrooms. Not pot or heroin, downer stuff.
I can't wait to find a "stone pipe" in a creek bed. Maybe jesus smoked tobacco thru it. who knows.
although........not sure if jesus was speaking to me, when seeing a timber rattlesnake curving its massive girth over a fallen branch......slowing making its way towards me. about covid social distancing away. What a beautiful create, rattlesnake jesus. Easily 6 feet long.
Katholics eat jesus' body. rattlesnake, roasted on a fire.....ummy good.
thank you jesus rattlesnake, for providing suck your body and blood.
guess rattlesnake jesus, upon his return to the "holy land", acted like crack whore Hunter, and just couldn't help but hanging out with low lifes.......like rattlesnake jesus did in the America's. (man.....the blood bath human sacrifices while all coked up are almost unforgiveable. almost. When rattlesnake jesus headed "north", he stopped his slaughtering ways. Tobacco is a more mellow buzz. and, when only quitting, does one get enraged.
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
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Re: Religion in America
What most scholars think is that stories evolved, passed down mostly orally, taking on the characteristics of other stories which audiences found particularly compelling. This is across cultures exposed to one another and across time.
So, features of a story told to promote a particular agenda (e.g. we should follow Jesus) may well have their genesis in earlier stories and may have little basis in historical fact. Indeed, none of the gospels were written by those who actually knew Jesus, they are not eyewitness accounts.
There's a lot in the stories of the Bible (and other religious sacred texts) which have these characteristics of interplay with earlier stories and across cultures.
This needn't invalidate the virtues of the compelling story, in particular the lessons we can glean in how to live good lives , but to suggest historical accuracy is pretty foolish. Rather these stories include matters of belief and faith, often becoming dogma that is required for one to be accepted as a member of a particular group or sect. Acceptance is a powerful motivation for conformity, especially in a hostile world.
Note, faith can be, and often is, a very powerful force of good in one's life and potentially in the world. It's also extremely dangerous when misused to demand conformity.
So, features of a story told to promote a particular agenda (e.g. we should follow Jesus) may well have their genesis in earlier stories and may have little basis in historical fact. Indeed, none of the gospels were written by those who actually knew Jesus, they are not eyewitness accounts.
There's a lot in the stories of the Bible (and other religious sacred texts) which have these characteristics of interplay with earlier stories and across cultures.
This needn't invalidate the virtues of the compelling story, in particular the lessons we can glean in how to live good lives , but to suggest historical accuracy is pretty foolish. Rather these stories include matters of belief and faith, often becoming dogma that is required for one to be accepted as a member of a particular group or sect. Acceptance is a powerful motivation for conformity, especially in a hostile world.
Note, faith can be, and often is, a very powerful force of good in one's life and potentially in the world. It's also extremely dangerous when misused to demand conformity.
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Re: Jesus is the Key
Sounds suspiciously like a matter of faith, not fact.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:26 amWe most positively and certainly do. The gospels are, all four of them, accurate historical documents.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:57 am We “know” Jesus walked the Earth, or some believe so. Ever study epistomology?
By the by, were they accurate before the 4th century? Is Martin Luther's version an accurate historical document?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Re: Jesus is the Key
Blind faith is the cornerstone of every religion. If your looking for guarantees concerning your particular faith you'll be looking for a very long time.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:59 pmSounds suspiciously like a matter of faith, not fact.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:26 amWe most positively and certainly do. The gospels are, all four of them, accurate historical documents.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:57 am We “know” Jesus walked the Earth, or some believe so. Ever study epistomology?
By the by, were they accurate before the 4th century? Is Martin Luther's version an accurate historical document?
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Bob Ross:
Re: Jesus is the Key
I needed a good laugh! Thanks.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:26 amWe most positively and certainly do. The gospels are, all four of them, accurate historical documents.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:57 am We “know” Jesus walked the Earth, or some believe so. Ever study epistomology?
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
Re: Jesus is the Key
... you might want to mention that there are inconsistencies between the four gospels.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:59 pmSounds suspiciously like a matter of faith, not fact.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:26 amWe most positively and certainly do. The gospels are, all four of them, accurate historical documents.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:57 am We “know” Jesus walked the Earth, or some believe so. Ever study epistomology?
By the by, were they accurate before the 4th century? Is Martin Luther's version an accurate historical document?
STAND AGAINST FASCISM
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Re: Jesus is the Key
Or bring up the canon of the other Abrahamic faith…jhu72 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 4:04 pm... you might want to mention that there are inconsistencies between the four gospels.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:59 pmSounds suspiciously like a matter of faith, not fact.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:26 amWe most positively and certainly do. The gospels are, all four of them, accurate historical documents.PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2024 7:57 am We “know” Jesus walked the Earth, or some believe so. Ever study epistomology?
By the by, were they accurate before the 4th century? Is Martin Luther's version an accurate historical document?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Re: Religion in America
“In a statement to WFAA, Gateway Church said Morris underwent a two-year “restoration process” after a “moral failure” in his twenties.”Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:07 pm https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/us/rober ... index.html
Well okay then. All good now.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Re: Religion in America
rattlesnake Jesus continues to show
that rattlesnake Jesus is presence is shown to we, and so appreciate it
Not one, but two bears did suck witness while walking in the woods
suck me very well be on the longitude that Joseph Smith found his tablets on, but the glaciers didn't erase the presence of rattlesnake Jesus
suck believes, and thinks that sucks. Religion will prove to be the one and only true world religion as soon as I found those tablets and can understand the voices that the tablets reveal.
that rattlesnake Jesus is presence is shown to we, and so appreciate it
Not one, but two bears did suck witness while walking in the woods
suck me very well be on the longitude that Joseph Smith found his tablets on, but the glaciers didn't erase the presence of rattlesnake Jesus
suck believes, and thinks that sucks. Religion will prove to be the one and only true world religion as soon as I found those tablets and can understand the voices that the tablets reveal.
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
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Re: Religion in America
My, shame is still a thing.
“ Robert Morris has resigned as senior pastor at Gateway Church in Southlake, Texas, three days after confessing to engaging in “sexual behavior” with a child in the 1980s.
The board of elders at Gateway made the announcement Tuesday in a statement to NBC News.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna157806
“ Robert Morris has resigned as senior pastor at Gateway Church in Southlake, Texas, three days after confessing to engaging in “sexual behavior” with a child in the 1980s.
The board of elders at Gateway made the announcement Tuesday in a statement to NBC News.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna157806
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Re: Religion in America
Is he a descendant of Reverend Ike?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:13 pm https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... -sentenced