The stick

[SCLaxAttack]

If stick design returned to Y shape w/ walls around 2.5", we might not see substantial change in average scores or gb's. But we probably would see more and better cradling.

And while we're talking about gb's, one thing I dislike about today's game is how common raking has become. When I played, we were taught to run through the ball and pick it up at speed. Now, it often resembles ice hockey players fighting for the puck in a corner.

you're right about raking, but gbs would skyrocket. the ball would be on the ground. again.

I’d guess ground ball pick up style is highly influenced by turf vs grass fields. Raking on a grass field of 30-40 years ago was a fool’s game. With today’s turf, and even with the technology and care of today’s grass fields, I’m surprised we don’t see bounce passing.

[SCLaxAttack]

The men's sticks have reached such a perverted level that they have somewhat ruined the game for me. Yes, I still watch but all too often I just shake my head and say that never should have happened. Can't remember which game it was but in one of them the ball carrier was getting banged around by three people, sticks clanging, he goes to the turf, gets back up and comes out of the pile with the ball. The commentator said (paraphrasing a bit but I'm pretty close), I can't believe he was able to hold onto the ball. No, he didn't hold onto the ball, it just wouldn't come out of his bagged pocket with sick hold stick and it's just wrong. That just goes against the essence of the game, it's not a level playing field, the balance is way out of whack and favors the O way too much. As if the O doesn't have enough of an advantage with the sticks, it seems as if it's been forgotten that warding off is against the rules and results in change of possession. I can't believe how much warding off I see with no call.
My buddy (a youngster at 62) was playing a little catch with his 11-12 yr old g-son a few days back. An 8th grader happened along with his stick and asked if he could join in and, of course, was welcomed to. He was also a FOGO and gave my buddy a lesson in stick manipulation and how to suck up a ball (pinch) with it. Was the first time my buddy had seen all of that up close and personal, his mind was blown and could only say that should be illegal (with which I fully agree). Tell that to the younger generation and they won't even understand what you're talking about though.
If you haven't tuned into the women's game, give it a look. In that game you'll see how a lacrosse stick is supposed to work.
You won't see anyone running up field with their stick vertical, being held by one hand at the throat and pumping their arms to attain max speed....you have to cradle the ball with a wlaxer's stick, as it should be. The men's sticks are an abomination and, yes, I fully understand that nothing is going change with them....well, maybe they'll find a way to give them even more sick hold and come up with a gripper ball so I guess there is a possibility for some change.
I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

i'm fine with the men's stick. if it were dialed to women's-ish, with the checks allowed to be thrown the ball was/would be on the ground too frequently. it's allowed more athletic plays to be made more frequently, scores haven't exploded, and enjoy watching teams of all levels.

women's seems to be a perfect fit as well for how it can be defensed, with the obligatory tweaks.

I’m not sure I’d agree with your description of plays as “athletic”. On a visit three weeks ago to my two young gsons it was time to upgrade them from their STX Fiddlesticks so we went to the nearest lacrosse store. Got them their upgrades and then decided to check higher quality sticks. I hadn’t picked up a new stick in a good ten years, and the change of technology - even without a customized pocket and with a mid-priced ($150) complete stick - was mind blowing. I was able to manipulate that stick and keep the ball in place in ways I’d never done before, and immediately improved some passes that had the gsons ooing and aahing. Those improvements had nothing to do with a sudden increase in athleticism, or even wrist dexterity, by this 67 yr old. I was never even close in talent to today’s players, but I’m now not amazed as I was four weeks ago when I’d see a pinpoint behind the back pass.

[Ezra White]

The men's sticks have reached such a perverted level that they have somewhat ruined the game for me. Yes, I still watch but all too often I just shake my head and say that never should have happened. Can't remember which game it was but in one of them the ball carrier was getting banged around by three people, sticks clanging, he goes to the turf, gets back up and comes out of the pile with the ball. The commentator said (paraphrasing a bit but I'm pretty close), I can't believe he was able to hold onto the ball. No, he didn't hold onto the ball, it just wouldn't come out of his bagged pocket with sick hold stick and it's just wrong. That just goes against the essence of the game, it's not a level playing field, the balance is way out of whack and favors the O way too much. As if the O doesn't have enough of an advantage with the sticks, it seems as if it's been forgotten that warding off is against the rules and results in change of possession. I can't believe how much warding off I see with no call.
My buddy (a youngster at 62) was playing a little catch with his 11-12 yr old g-son a few days back. An 8th grader happened along with his stick and asked if he could join in and, of course, was welcomed to. He was also a FOGO and gave my buddy a lesson in stick manipulation and how to suck up a ball (pinch) with it. Was the first time my buddy had seen all of that up close and personal, his mind was blown and could only say that should be illegal (with which I fully agree). Tell that to the younger generation and they won't even understand what you're talking about though.
If you haven't tuned into the women's game, give it a look. In that game you'll see how a lacrosse stick is supposed to work.
You won't see anyone running up field with their stick vertical, being held by one hand at the throat and pumping their arms to attain max speed....you have to cradle the ball with a wlaxer's stick, as it should be. The men's sticks are an abomination and, yes, I fully understand that nothing is going change with them....well, maybe they'll find a way to give them even more sick hold and come up with a gripper ball so I guess there is a possibility for some change.
I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

i'm fine with the men's stick. if it were dialed to women's-ish, with the checks allowed to be thrown the ball was/would be on the ground too frequently. it's allowed more athletic plays to be made more frequently, scores haven't exploded, and enjoy watching teams of all levels.

women's seems to be a perfect fit as well for how it can be defensed, with the obligatory tweaks.

I’m not sure I’d agree with your description of plays as “athletic”. On a visit three weeks ago to my two young gsons it was time to upgrade them from their STX Fiddlesticks so we went to the nearest lacrosse store. Got them their upgrades and then decided to check higher quality sticks. I hadn’t picked up a new stick in a good ten years, and the change of technology - even without a customized pocket and with a mid-priced ($150) complete stick - was mind blowing. I was able to manipulate that stick and keep the ball in place in ways I’d never done before, and immediately improved some passes that had the gsons ooing and aahing. Those improvements had nothing to do with a sudden increase in athleticism, or even wrist dexterity, by this 67 yr old. I was never even close in talent to today’s players, but I’m now not amazed as I was four weeks ago when I’d see a pinpoint behind the back pass.

+1

[wgdsr]

The men's sticks have reached such a perverted level that they have somewhat ruined the game for me. Yes, I still watch but all too often I just shake my head and say that never should have happened. Can't remember which game it was but in one of them the ball carrier was getting banged around by three people, sticks clanging, he goes to the turf, gets back up and comes out of the pile with the ball. The commentator said (paraphrasing a bit but I'm pretty close), I can't believe he was able to hold onto the ball. No, he didn't hold onto the ball, it just wouldn't come out of his bagged pocket with sick hold stick and it's just wrong. That just goes against the essence of the game, it's not a level playing field, the balance is way out of whack and favors the O way too much. As if the O doesn't have enough of an advantage with the sticks, it seems as if it's been forgotten that warding off is against the rules and results in change of possession. I can't believe how much warding off I see with no call.
My buddy (a youngster at 62) was playing a little catch with his 11-12 yr old g-son a few days back. An 8th grader happened along with his stick and asked if he could join in and, of course, was welcomed to. He was also a FOGO and gave my buddy a lesson in stick manipulation and how to suck up a ball (pinch) with it. Was the first time my buddy had seen all of that up close and personal, his mind was blown and could only say that should be illegal (with which I fully agree). Tell that to the younger generation and they won't even understand what you're talking about though.
If you haven't tuned into the women's game, give it a look. In that game you'll see how a lacrosse stick is supposed to work.
You won't see anyone running up field with their stick vertical, being held by one hand at the throat and pumping their arms to attain max speed....you have to cradle the ball with a wlaxer's stick, as it should be. The men's sticks are an abomination and, yes, I fully understand that nothing is going change with them....well, maybe they'll find a way to give them even more sick hold and come up with a gripper ball so I guess there is a possibility for some change.
I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

i'm fine with the men's stick. if it were dialed to women's-ish, with the checks allowed to be thrown the ball was/would be on the ground too frequently. it's allowed more athletic plays to be made more frequently, scores haven't exploded, and enjoy watching teams of all levels.

women's seems to be a perfect fit as well for how it can be defensed, with the obligatory tweaks.

I’m not sure I’d agree with your description of plays as “athletic”. On a visit three weeks ago to my two young gsons it was time to upgrade them from their STX Fiddlesticks so we went to the nearest lacrosse store. Got them their upgrades and then decided to check higher quality sticks. I hadn’t picked up a new stick in a good ten years, and the change of technology - even without a customized pocket and with a mid-priced ($150) complete stick - was mind blowing. I was able to manipulate that stick and keep the ball in place in ways I’d never done before, and immediately improved some passes that had the gsons ooing and aahing. Those improvements had nothing to do with a sudden increase in athleticism, or even wrist dexterity, by this 67 yr old. I was never even close in talent to today’s players, but I’m now not amazed as I was four weeks ago when I’d see a pinpoint behind the back pass.

what i was getting to or trying to say was not necessarily that they have made plays more athletic, but they've allowed them to make more of those athletic plays, more often. in dodging, diving, shooting, etc. rather than the ball being on the ground or not having been attempted. kind of exactly like how your grandsons think you're the man now.

[wgdsr]

If stick design returned to Y shape w/ walls around 2.5", we might not see substantial change in average scores or gb's. But we probably would see more and better cradling.

And while we're talking about gb's, one thing I dislike about today's game is how common raking has become. When I played, we were taught to run through the ball and pick it up at speed. Now, it often resembles ice hockey players fighting for the puck in a corner.

you're right about raking, but gbs would skyrocket. the ball would be on the ground. again.

I’d guess ground ball pick up style is highly influenced by turf vs grass fields. Raking on a grass field of 30-40 years ago was a fool’s game. With today’s turf, and even with the technology and care of today’s grass fields, I’m surprised we don’t see bounce passing.

raking still isn't very optimal in any kind of scrum very often, but yes turf and better grass has made it easier.

on bounce passes, catching one especially in game conditions is a good deal more difficult. the backspin will either dissipate a ton or reverse. catch it like normal and anywhere near the top of the pocket and good chance it's coming out.

[viho]

I for one would like to see the rebirth of the art of the take away check. They can be just as exciting as a goal. That won’t happen with today’s sticks.

[PizzaSnake]

If stick design returned to Y shape w/ walls around 2.5", we might not see substantial change in average scores or gb's. But we probably would see more and better cradling.

And while we're talking about gb's, one thing I dislike about today's game is how common raking has become. When I played, we were taught to run through the ball and pick it up at speed. Now, it often resembles ice hockey players fighting for the puck in a corner.

That and standing on top of the ball with their stick nearly vertical. FFS kick it out so you can run through stick parallel to the ground, back hand driving the stick, front guiding. It is though they don't remember how to pick up a gb at all, much less at speed. Hate it.

Of course, once they have it in the "bag," it is almost impossible to dislodge. Fcuking ridiculous.

[Farfromgeneva]

If stick design returned to Y shape w/ walls around 2.5", we might not see substantial change in average scores or gb's. But we probably would see more and better cradling.

And while we're talking about gb's, one thing I dislike about today's game is how common raking has become. When I played, we were taught to run through the ball and pick it up at speed. Now, it often resembles ice hockey players fighting for the puck in a corner.

you're right about raking, but gbs would skyrocket. the ball would be on the ground. again.

I’d guess ground ball pick up style is highly influenced by turf vs grass fields. Raking on a grass field of 30-40 years ago was a fool’s game. With today’s turf, and even with the technology and care of today’s grass fields, I’m surprised we don’t see bounce passing.

raking still isn't very optimal in any kind of scrum very often, but yes turf and better grass has made it easier.

on bounce passes, catching one especially in game conditions is a good deal more difficult. the backspin will either dissipate a ton or reverse. catch it like normal and anywhere near the top of the pocket and good chance it's coming out.

Along with "stop hacking and leaping, poke and lift!" I am constantly yelling at my son and the others "get low and drive through the ball!"

[faircornell]

This may have already been mentioned, but with today's sticks, "scooping through" on ground balls is much more efficient with the new stick design. Occasionally, I see players take advantage of this. Gavin Adler of Cornell noted that his high school coach was highly focused on ground balls, and Adler was a master of scooping through beautifully.

[shaadb-man]

This is a real get off my lawn subject. I guess everyone here has stopped watching golf as well right?

[NattyBohChamps04]

This is a real get off my lawn subject. I guess everyone here has stopped watching golf as well right?

Golf regularly bans various new clubs and balls that are non-conforming. The the most prestigious clubs in the world have added tons of yardage over the decades. There's a huge fight regarding dialing back various technology advances.

Baseball, basketball, golf, swimming, and more sports have limited technological advances to preserve safety and the spirit of the sport in the past few decades. Many times resulting in increased viewership.

So yeah, get off my lawn I guess? You are probably just killing grass.

[shaadb-man]

Titanium heads and graphite shafts, balls with insane spin, get out of here that it isn't close to what lacrosse innovations have. Woods were wood!

WR gloves you can catch a ball one handed

swim suits that have shed seconds off times, 2024 olympic approved for now are suppose to be similar to the full suits that were banned after the '08 Olympics

Bike frames and rims in carbon fiber making lighter and stronger

tennis rackets using carbon fiber and synthetic strings

All on par to what the stick has seen

[10stone5]

The best were those old style Titleist Pros - soft cover, a lot of lot of spin.

[DMac]

Titanium heads and graphite shafts, balls with insane spin, get out of here that it isn't close to what lacrosse innovations have. Woods were wood!

WR gloves you can catch a ball one handed

swim suits that have shed seconds off times, 2024 olympic approved for now are suppose to be similar to the full suits that were banned after the '08 Olympics

Bike frames and rims in carbon fiber making lighter and stronger

tennis rackets using carbon fiber and synthetic strings

All on par to what the stick has seen

Nope, not really on par re the men's stick, the women's, yes. Try doing a pinch (this should not happen) and pop with a women's stick. Try running downfield holding your stick by the bottom of the head and pumping your arms like you're carrying a baton in a relay race with a woman's stick. The offset head and bagged pocket do most of the work of keeping the ball in your stick. Keeping the ball in your stick is not something the stick was ever intended to do for you, it was up to the player to master the stick in order to do that (which is actually the essence of the game). I believe there a lot of people who don't even understand that as the "new" sticks are all they know and think that's the way it's supposed to be. The women's stick has got it right, the men's not so much (way too much advantage for the O). It is what it is and it aint gonna change.

[Farfromgeneva]

This is a real get off my lawn subject. I guess everyone here has stopped watching golf as well right?

You watch golf? Even when I take clients to the PGA I just sit and makes sure they are getting enough booze to give me state secrets in a tent. Didn’t think people actually watched golf. We had that tent where Lynn Swann greets you at the masters a few years and almost no one in there watched much of the golf.

Oh and pimento cheese is garbage; if Coca Cola is the Champaign of the south (it’s not I still like Pepsi better and I live three blocks from a big park of land donated by the candler family which we benefit from), then pimento cheese is the port wine cheese of the south.

[wgdsr]

The best were those old style Titleist Pros - soft cover, a lot of lot of spin.

man, i loved those. no one else i knew played them. they cut and went out of round pretty quick, but damn they were fun to play. work the ball, the feel. everything else was a rock.

[SCLaxAttack]

This is a real get off my lawn subject. I guess everyone here has stopped watching golf as well right?

You watch golf? Even when I take clients to the PGA I just sit and makes sure they are getting enough booze to give me state secrets in a tent. Didn’t think people actually watched golf. We had that tent where Lynn Swann greets you at the masters a few years and almost no one in there watched much of the golf.

Oh and pimento cheese is garbage; if Coca Cola is the Champaign of the south (it’s not I still like Pepsi better and I live three blocks from a big park of land donated by the candler family which we benefit from), then pimento cheese is the port wine cheese of the south.

Cheerwine.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Titanium heads and graphite shafts, balls with insane spin, get out of here that it isn't close to what lacrosse innovations have. Woods were wood!

WR gloves you can catch a ball one handed

swim suits that have shed seconds off times, 2024 olympic approved for now are suppose to be similar to the full suits that were banned after the '08 Olympics

Bike frames and rims in carbon fiber making lighter and stronger

tennis rackets using carbon fiber and synthetic strings

All on par to what the stick has seen

Golf bans a ton of heads, shafts balls and other equipment that performs too well. We could be hitting the ball further and straighter.

Swimming banned full suits as well as buoyant suits, still in effect for 2024. We could have even faster times.

NCAA bats were deadened for performance and safety. MLB doesn't allow metal bats.

Basketball moved the 3-point line further back to make it harder to score.

A number of the grippy football gloves are illegal. Some are legal.

Track banned certain shoes that were too fast.

Tennis bans a variety of rackets and stringing techniques, and limits the size.

...

We can let technology advance the sport and yet still limit it to preserve certain things that make it great.

[Late Slide]

If stick design returned to Y shape w/ walls around 2.5", we might not see substantial change in average scores or gb's. But we probably would see more and better cradling.

And while we're talking about gb's, one thing I dislike about today's game is how common raking has become. When I played, we were taught to run through the ball and pick it up at speed. Now, it often resembles ice hockey players fighting for the puck in a corner.

That and standing on top of the ball with their stick nearly vertical. FFS kick it out so you can run through stick parallel to the ground, back hand driving the stick, front guiding. It is though they don't remember how to pick up a gb at all, much less at speed. Hate it.

Of course, once they have it in the "bag," it is almost impossible to dislodge. Fcuking ridiculous.

Which is another reason why defensive long sticks should remain part of the game IMO.

[Late Slide]

This is a real get off my lawn subject. I guess everyone here has stopped watching golf as well right?

You watch golf? Even when I take clients to the PGA I just sit and makes sure they are getting enough booze to give me state secrets in a tent. Didn’t think people actually watched golf. We had that tent where Lynn Swann greets you at the masters a few years and almost no one in there watched much of the golf.

Oh and pimento cheese is garbage; if Coca Cola is the Champaign of the south (it’s not I still like Pepsi better and I live three blocks from a big park of land donated by the candler family which we benefit from), then pimento cheese is the port wine cheese of the south.

Defaming pimento cheese sandwiches are fighting words.