2024

[MDlaxfan76]

The law behind the paperwork form is that it is illegal for addicts to purchase a gun.

Had he not lied on the form, he would not have been permitted to purchase the gun.

The paperwork form is part of the enforcement mechanism. If he was an addict, it was illegal to purchase & possess the gun.

Where's the support for gun control, dismissing it as a mere paperwork crime ?

The woman living with him felt it was dangerous enough to dispose of the gun, in a reckless manner.

It was not a mere paperwork error.

Assuming he's found guilty, it will be because a jury found him, beyond a reasonable doubt, to have knowingly and intentionally falsely filed the paperwork that allowed the therefore illegal purchase of the gun. The gun itself was not illegal, but it was allegedly illegally obtained because he allegedly falsely represented his status as an addict.

This not a mere error nor is it mere paperwork, just as filing false paperwork to hide the intention of affecting the 2016 election and related tax and campaign finance law violations, is not mere error nor mere paperwork.

But the scale of Trump's crime, which has indeed been adjudicated by a jury as proven beyond a reasonable doubt, is far, far greater than an addict purchasing a gun when he was half out of his mind. Happens all the time, rarely prosecuted unless there's a related crime committed to which the gun was important. (Now, if he'd used the gun to kill someone, commit assault, etc could make an argument as to importance.)

Even more so, Trump's other indicted crimes dwarf this one.

Back to Hunter. The defense will argue that Hunter did not think he was an addict, an habitual user, at the moment of his filling out the gun purchase form. They will attempt to provide a basis for reasonable doubt as to intent.

May not be sufficient to convince a jury, but many jurors have a likelihood of having addicts in their lives who they understand were not thinking clearly when under the influence of addiction. They may have some empathy for the notion that either at the moment of filling out the form he actually thought he'd kicked it, or that he was in such denial that he simply wasn't willing to believe what anyone around him would have said about his state of addiction. And they may see his later recovery an admissions of addiction as coming from a very different time and perspective, having come to grips with the reality of his addiction.

Or they'll find that implausible and convict. Or they'd disagree and be hung.

In either case, the crime is a matter of false representation to the government.

Tax avoidance is obviously white collar.

Note that Trump needed to be found to have had the intent to make illegal false representations AND that he intended it to benefit his Presidential campaign. They found both beyond a reasonable doubt. 34 times.

[a fan]

The law behind the paperwork form is that it is illegal for addicts to purchase a gun.

Had he not lied on the form, he would not have been permitted to purchase the gun.

The paperwork form is part of the enforcement mechanism. If he was an addict, it was illegal to purchase & possess the gun.

Yep. That's right.

It's still white collar. And that's all I'm claiming.

Why don't you give up on this Hunter thing? He's not a politician. He committed the type of crime you think is no big deal: "victimless crime"...your words, not mine.

He's got no connection to Joe with these crimes.

So why are you wasting your time on here trying to convince us that this is the worst crime ever, while previously lecturing to us that felonies that were committed by Republicans are just no big deal?

Just let it go, and discuss more interesting things, and keep you and I from, as you put it----going "round and round".

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

George C. Marshall. Yep--did great things to help Europe rebuild, but he was a Jew-hater from way back. I'm glad Truman ignored Marshall's ultimatum and went ahead with his support for a State of Israel anyway.

This is such a pipe dream. I'd love for those things in the last three paragraphs to happen too but trends, especially in the negative areas mentioned, are only going to get worse, no matter who gets elected--sad to say.

And yet it remains possible for us to weather this storm of indecency and strive to lift up those of good character, whether in politics, business, law, any walk of life.

History will be the judge, but let's understand that if the extremist autocrats of any persuasion gain power, that 'history' may be entirely and purposely false for generations to come.

We still have the capacity to reject the extremism, the indecent, in our political choices.

We have a stark opportunity to do so in 2024, just as we had in 2020.

No choice is perfect, no person unflawed, no policy without unintended consequences, but the 'character' that Admiral McRaven speaks to is provided an opportunity to prevail, uniquely, in the form of government the United States has pioneered. It's messy, often frustrating, sometimes infuriating, but it enables, with time, for that arc of history to bend toward justice unlike any other form of government.

I hear you--but I think we as a country have devolved in so many areas that any of what you are holding out hope for ain't gonna happen. We've gone too far down the road to come back from the cavernous divide in this country. Both Red and Blue are in it up their necks, and both are participating with both hands earnestly (not to mention, greedily. There's a lot more money in war than peace).

I suspect that you, too, hope that dire prediction is 'wrong' and that we come through this fractured time successfully.

Where I disagree, somewhat, is that I don't think there's anything close to an equivalence in how far 'gone' each party is toward its extremes.

One party is full on in cult mode and fully given up on democratic, small d, governance, whereas the other, however inept and sometimes corrupt and often feckless, rejects the autocratic formula.

Not that I couldn't see the hard left embracing an autocratic response to the criminality and endorsement of criminality being exhibited on the hard right, the hard left is just not remotely close to being dominant in that party. No personality cult. No cult of extremism.

Could the boomerang get them there?
Sure, but not if it's the center left and center right that sways the difference.

But man, we really need to get rid of gerrymandering and we really need some regulation of social media, especially removal of protection from lawsuits.

It's a matter of perspective. I see both parties as too far down the road. They both reek in their own ways. I actually don't see that prediction as wrong. I'm fully convinced that's where we're headed, as a country, and as a world. What we have today, in all its obnoxious excesses, growing in intensity.

[MDlaxfan76]

George C. Marshall. Yep--did great things to help Europe rebuild, but he was a Jew-hater from way back. I'm glad Truman ignored Marshall's ultimatum and went ahead with his support for a State of Israel anyway.

This is such a pipe dream. I'd love for those things in the last three paragraphs to happen too but trends, especially in the negative areas mentioned, are only going to get worse, no matter who gets elected--sad to say.

And yet it remains possible for us to weather this storm of indecency and strive to lift up those of good character, whether in politics, business, law, any walk of life.

History will be the judge, but let's understand that if the extremist autocrats of any persuasion gain power, that 'history' may be entirely and purposely false for generations to come.

We still have the capacity to reject the extremism, the indecent, in our political choices.

We have a stark opportunity to do so in 2024, just as we had in 2020.

No choice is perfect, no person unflawed, no policy without unintended consequences, but the 'character' that Admiral McRaven speaks to is provided an opportunity to prevail, uniquely, in the form of government the United States has pioneered. It's messy, often frustrating, sometimes infuriating, but it enables, with time, for that arc of history to bend toward justice unlike any other form of government.

I hear you--but I think we as a country have devolved in so many areas that any of what you are holding out hope for ain't gonna happen. We've gone too far down the road to come back from the cavernous divide in this country. Both Red and Blue are in it up their necks, and both are participating with both hands earnestly (not to mention, greedily. There's a lot more money in war than peace).

I suspect that you, too, hope that dire prediction is 'wrong' and that we come through this fractured time successfully.

Where I disagree, somewhat, is that I don't think there's anything close to an equivalence in how far 'gone' each party is toward its extremes.

One party is full on in cult mode and fully given up on democratic, small d, governance, whereas the other, however inept and sometimes corrupt and often feckless, rejects the autocratic formula.

Not that I couldn't see the hard left embracing an autocratic response to the criminality and endorsement of criminality being exhibited on the hard right, the hard left is just not remotely close to being dominant in that party. No personality cult. No cult of extremism.

Could the boomerang get them there?
Sure, but not if it's the center left and center right that sways the difference.

But man, we really need to get rid of gerrymandering and we really need some regulation of social media, especially removal of protection from lawsuits.

It's a matter of perspective. I see both parties as too far down the road. They both reek in their own ways. I actually don't see that prediction as wrong. I'm fully convinced that's where we're headed, as a country, and as a world. What we have today, in all its obnoxious excesses, growing in intensity.

Let's just say that my perspective is that democracy and the rule of law not men, are self-correcting...as long they can be maintained as such. Imperfect, frustrating, ('reeking' perhaps) but self-correcting. The alternative is only 'corrected' through violence.

And only one party in America is currently on the pathway to autocracy.
If you and too many others think that's merely 'perspective', I guess that's what may well be our doom.
The notion that truth is 'relative'.

I just don't think it's too late.
Late, perhaps, but not too late.

[PizzaSnake]

George C. Marshall. Yep--did great things to help Europe rebuild, but he was a Jew-hater from way back. I'm glad Truman ignored Marshall's ultimatum and went ahead with his support for a State of Israel anyway.

This is such a pipe dream. I'd love for those things in the last three paragraphs to happen too but trends, especially in the negative areas mentioned, are only going to get worse, no matter who gets elected--sad to say.

And yet it remains possible for us to weather this storm of indecency and strive to lift up those of good character, whether in politics, business, law, any walk of life.

History will be the judge, but let's understand that if the extremist autocrats of any persuasion gain power, that 'history' may be entirely and purposely false for generations to come.

We still have the capacity to reject the extremism, the indecent, in our political choices.

We have a stark opportunity to do so in 2024, just as we had in 2020.

No choice is perfect, no person unflawed, no policy without unintended consequences, but the 'character' that Admiral McRaven speaks to is provided an opportunity to prevail, uniquely, in the form of government the United States has pioneered. It's messy, often frustrating, sometimes infuriating, but it enables, with time, for that arc of history to bend toward justice unlike any other form of government.

I hear you--but I think we as a country have devolved in so many areas that any of what you are holding out hope for ain't gonna happen. We've gone too far down the road to come back from the cavernous divide in this country. Both Red and Blue are in it up their necks, and both are participating with both hands earnestly (not to mention, greedily. There's a lot more money in war than peace).

I suspect that you, too, hope that dire prediction is 'wrong' and that we come through this fractured time successfully.

Where I disagree, somewhat, is that I don't think there's anything close to an equivalence in how far 'gone' each party is toward its extremes.

One party is full on in cult mode and fully given up on democratic, small d, governance, whereas the other, however inept and sometimes corrupt and often feckless, rejects the autocratic formula.

Not that I couldn't see the hard left embracing an autocratic response to the criminality and endorsement of criminality being exhibited on the hard right, the hard left is just not remotely close to being dominant in that party. No personality cult. No cult of extremism.

Could the boomerang get them there?
Sure, but not if it's the center left and center right that sways the difference.

But man, we really need to get rid of gerrymandering and we really need some regulation of social media, especially removal of protection from lawsuits.

It's a matter of perspective. I see both parties as too far down the road. They both reek in their own ways. I actually don't see that prediction as wrong. I'm fully convinced that's where we're headed, as a country, and as a world. What we have today, in all its obnoxious excesses, growing in intensity.

“ Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”. — Yeats


I quote this often because it becomes more appropriate by the day.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

George C. Marshall. Yep--did great things to help Europe rebuild, but he was a Jew-hater from way back. I'm glad Truman ignored Marshall's ultimatum and went ahead with his support for a State of Israel anyway.

This is such a pipe dream. I'd love for those things in the last three paragraphs to happen too but trends, especially in the negative areas mentioned, are only going to get worse, no matter who gets elected--sad to say.

And yet it remains possible for us to weather this storm of indecency and strive to lift up those of good character, whether in politics, business, law, any walk of life.

History will be the judge, but let's understand that if the extremist autocrats of any persuasion gain power, that 'history' may be entirely and purposely false for generations to come.

We still have the capacity to reject the extremism, the indecent, in our political choices.

We have a stark opportunity to do so in 2024, just as we had in 2020.

No choice is perfect, no person unflawed, no policy without unintended consequences, but the 'character' that Admiral McRaven speaks to is provided an opportunity to prevail, uniquely, in the form of government the United States has pioneered. It's messy, often frustrating, sometimes infuriating, but it enables, with time, for that arc of history to bend toward justice unlike any other form of government.

I hear you--but I think we as a country have devolved in so many areas that any of what you are holding out hope for ain't gonna happen. We've gone too far down the road to come back from the cavernous divide in this country. Both Red and Blue are in it up their necks, and both are participating with both hands earnestly (not to mention, greedily. There's a lot more money in war than peace).

I suspect that you, too, hope that dire prediction is 'wrong' and that we come through this fractured time successfully.

Where I disagree, somewhat, is that I don't think there's anything close to an equivalence in how far 'gone' each party is toward its extremes.

One party is full on in cult mode and fully given up on democratic, small d, governance, whereas the other, however inept and sometimes corrupt and often feckless, rejects the autocratic formula.

Not that I couldn't see the hard left embracing an autocratic response to the criminality and endorsement of criminality being exhibited on the hard right, the hard left is just not remotely close to being dominant in that party. No personality cult. No cult of extremism.

Could the boomerang get them there?
Sure, but not if it's the center left and center right that sways the difference.

But man, we really need to get rid of gerrymandering and we really need some regulation of social media, especially removal of protection from lawsuits.

It's a matter of perspective. I see both parties as too far down the road. They both reek in their own ways. I actually don't see that prediction as wrong. I'm fully convinced that's where we're headed, as a country, and as a world. What we have today, in all its obnoxious excesses, growing in intensity.

Let's just say that my perspective is that democracy and the rule of law not men, are self-correcting...as long they can be maintained as such. Imperfect, frustrating, ('reeking' perhaps) but self-correcting. The alternative is only 'corrected' through violence.

And only one party in America is currently on the pathway to autocracy.
If you and too many others think that's merely 'perspective', I guess that's what may well be our doom.
The notion that truth is 'relative'.

I just don't think it's too late.
Late, perhaps, but not too late.

I have no faith they can be maintained as such. An autocracy won't work in this country, either. To allude to the Yeats PizzaSnake quoted, even that would quickly fall apart. Sure Trump has his staunch supporters but look what a disaster he is. So he gets in power for another four years. That will also collapse.

The trends in this country, and the world, in so many areas, are speeding on the road to excess, and ain't no Palace of Wisdom at the end of the line.

I hear where you're coming from--but I don't see any possible way this all gets corrected with man at the wheel. The Yeats passage is right on--and as PizzaSnake said, "it becomes more appropriate by the day".

[MDlaxfan76]

George C. Marshall. Yep--did great things to help Europe rebuild, but he was a Jew-hater from way back. I'm glad Truman ignored Marshall's ultimatum and went ahead with his support for a State of Israel anyway.

This is such a pipe dream. I'd love for those things in the last three paragraphs to happen too but trends, especially in the negative areas mentioned, are only going to get worse, no matter who gets elected--sad to say.

And yet it remains possible for us to weather this storm of indecency and strive to lift up those of good character, whether in politics, business, law, any walk of life.

History will be the judge, but let's understand that if the extremist autocrats of any persuasion gain power, that 'history' may be entirely and purposely false for generations to come.

We still have the capacity to reject the extremism, the indecent, in our political choices.

We have a stark opportunity to do so in 2024, just as we had in 2020.

No choice is perfect, no person unflawed, no policy without unintended consequences, but the 'character' that Admiral McRaven speaks to is provided an opportunity to prevail, uniquely, in the form of government the United States has pioneered. It's messy, often frustrating, sometimes infuriating, but it enables, with time, for that arc of history to bend toward justice unlike any other form of government.

I hear you--but I think we as a country have devolved in so many areas that any of what you are holding out hope for ain't gonna happen. We've gone too far down the road to come back from the cavernous divide in this country. Both Red and Blue are in it up their necks, and both are participating with both hands earnestly (not to mention, greedily. There's a lot more money in war than peace).

I suspect that you, too, hope that dire prediction is 'wrong' and that we come through this fractured time successfully.

Where I disagree, somewhat, is that I don't think there's anything close to an equivalence in how far 'gone' each party is toward its extremes.

One party is full on in cult mode and fully given up on democratic, small d, governance, whereas the other, however inept and sometimes corrupt and often feckless, rejects the autocratic formula.

Not that I couldn't see the hard left embracing an autocratic response to the criminality and endorsement of criminality being exhibited on the hard right, the hard left is just not remotely close to being dominant in that party. No personality cult. No cult of extremism.

Could the boomerang get them there?
Sure, but not if it's the center left and center right that sways the difference.

But man, we really need to get rid of gerrymandering and we really need some regulation of social media, especially removal of protection from lawsuits.

It's a matter of perspective. I see both parties as too far down the road. They both reek in their own ways. I actually don't see that prediction as wrong. I'm fully convinced that's where we're headed, as a country, and as a world. What we have today, in all its obnoxious excesses, growing in intensity.

Let's just say that my perspective is that democracy and the rule of law not men, are self-correcting...as long they can be maintained as such. Imperfect, frustrating, ('reeking' perhaps) but self-correcting. The alternative is only 'corrected' through violence.

And only one party in America is currently on the pathway to autocracy.
If you and too many others think that's merely 'perspective', I guess that's what may well be our doom.
The notion that truth is 'relative'.

I just don't think it's too late.
Late, perhaps, but not too late.

I have no faith they can be maintained as such. An autocracy won't work in this country, either. To allude to the Yeats PizzaSnake quoted, even that would quickly fall apart. Sure Trump has his staunch supporters but look what a disaster he is. So he gets in power for another four years. That will also collapse.

The trends in this country, and the world, in so many areas, are speeding on the road to excess, and ain't no Palace of Wisdom at the end of the line.

I hear where you're coming from--but I don't see any possible way this all gets corrected with man at the wheel. The Yeats passage is right on--and as PizzaSnake said, "it becomes more appropriate by the day".

Just was listening to a discussion of the times pre D Day, the debate among Allies as to whether Operation Overlord was doomed to fail, a pivot point in history in which optimism and sacrifice prevailed over pessimism and prevarication, and ultimately prevailed over true darkness.

Without optimism and sacrifice, our internal darkness will not be overcome, rather pessimism will lead to darkness.

What I am saying is that we still have an opportunity to, without violence, reject the darkness that Trump and MAGA represents.

That’s not a prediction, as the more likely coming challenge will include violence at least at the fringes, whether individuals acting or mob action. But at our core, the center must indeed hold against the extremes. And that opportunity is not violent, rather it’s the urgency of voting, it’s the urgency to clarify continuing support for democracy and the rule of law.

If we fail in this, I truly think we may not see another real opportunity in my lifetime. The organization of those who claim some righteous justification to seize and hold power is worlds different than in 2016, with no comparable analog in American history. They are organizing to radically reshape government to be an instrument of retribution, with no constraints or boundaries.

It’s a full on form of fascism with the veneer of controlled elections with engineered outcomes. In the most powerful nation in the world, with the second and third most powerful nations being full on authoritarian regimes as well.

What you are saying is that you have lost faith and are resigned to that future. I’m not.

I’d simply invite you and anyone else of like resignation, but repulsed by that outcome, to find ways to renew your faith and commitment to democracy and the rule of law, with an urgency based on a hard nosed view of the alternative.

[SCLaxAttack]

So back to Yeats, if “the best lack all conviction”, then we are doomed.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

What I am saying is that we still have an opportunity to, without violence, reject the darkness that Biden and liberals represent.

I'd just like to comment on this because this is a point where we differ. You'll notice I changed the above names. I fully believe we are slated for just as much darkness with them. A different shade of darkness, admittedly--but darkness nonetheless.

[youthathletics]

The pendulum is at its most extreme point when it is on its way back...I'd hope we are in a correction phase. I think Biden and the extreme liberals have swung us too far, the Trump fringe base is the other extreme (arguably) trying to overcorrect.

Many here seem to have been hooked by the political tactics, tolerate damned near anything from the extreme sides, for the sole reason that it is counter to the other side...being played by the divisiveness of partisan politics.

Keep in mind, how many times have we heard that Trumps policies were zilch, he did nothing...other than give the left almost everything they wanted when it was time to negotiate spending; the dems won each and every time.

How ironic that the Biden Admin boasts that they are rolling back all of TRumps Border policies in 2020, open the flood gates, create a crisis, and now conveniently election time, Biden is now talking like he cares about the border again. Biden Issues Order Allowing Temporary Border Closure to Migrants Silly politicians playing us once again. I suppose they forgot that when Trump was building the wall he also said it would have a new beautiful door.

....so I wonder, was the crisis really just an opportunity to get our population up, get some added cheap labor in here as we navigate bringing manufacturing back from overseas, show just how touchy feely we are, otherwise...why did do it?

We are all being played, picking sides seems intentionally planned, if we allow them to pit us against one another. Their end goal is expand their base....

What if we collectively changed our voter registrations to independent, what are the repercussions of that?

[MDlaxfan76]

What I am saying is that we still have an opportunity to, without violence, reject the darkness that Biden and liberals represent.

I'd just like to comment on this because this is a point where we differ. You'll notice I changed the above names. I fully believe we are slated for just as much darkness with them. A different shade of darkness, admittedly--but darkness nonetheless.

Really. Biden represents darkness? Liberals represent darkness?
Please explain fully.

I might understand saying‘extremists’ represent darkness or are a danger in some way, but conservatives and liberals coexist in a functioning democracy. And proudly, respectfully and civilly so, confident that that their views will be heard and considered through many cycles of opportunity to be given a chance, within the democratic system and rule of law, And with Constitutional boundaries and protection of key liberties. Only extremists insist upon absolute power to enforce only their views in perpetuity without challenge.

[MDlaxfan76]

The pendulum is at its most extreme point when it is on its way back...I'd hope we are in a correction phase. I think Biden and the extreme liberals have swung us too far, the Trump fringe base is the other extreme (arguably) trying to overcorrect.

Many here seem to have been hooked by the political tactics, tolerate damned near anything from the extreme sides, for the sole reason that it is counter to the other side...being played by the divisiveness of partisan politics.

Keep in mind, how many times have we heard that Trumps policies were zilch, he did nothing...other than give the left almost everything they wanted when it was time to negotiate spending; the dems won each and every time.

How ironic that the Biden Admin boasts that they are rolling back all of TRumps Border policies in 2020, open the flood gates, create a crisis, and now conveniently election time, Biden is now talking like he cares about the border again. Biden Issues Order Allowing Temporary Border Closure to Migrants Silly politicians playing us once again. I suppose they forgot that when Trump was building the wall he also said it would have a new beautiful door.

....so I wonder, was the crisis really just an opportunity to get our population up, get some added cheap labor in here as we navigate bringing manufacturing back from overseas, show just how touchy feely we are, otherwise...why did do it?

We are all being played, picking sides seems intentionally planned, if we allow them to pit us against one another. Their end goal is expand their base....

What if we collectively changed our voter registrations to independent, what are the repercussions of that?

To your last question , little to none. The system presents only two viable options each cycle. Begin a new party like Teddy Roosevelt if you want, but independent still means making a final choice and ultimately it comes down to needing to decide between two alternatives…for one cycle.

That is, unless one Party is hellbent on removing the possibility of a viable alternative, as we’ve seen around the world in other fascistic authoritarian autocracies that moved from democracy to autocracy.

I just don’t see that from Biden and the moderate wing of the Dems he represents but the MAGA dominated GOP is explicitly telling us they so intend.

Believe them. They are very organized this time.

[MDlaxfan76]

So back to Yeats, if “the best lack all conviction”, then we are doomed.

Excellently put.

[njbill]

How ironic that the Biden Admin boasts that they are rolling back all of TRumps Border policies in 2020, open the flood gates, create a crisis, and now conveniently election time, Biden is now talking like he cares about the border again.

Let's not forget that Congress agreed on a bipartisan border deal (which would have been landmark legislation), largely drafted by conservative Senator Lankford, but Trump "ordered" his lemmings not to vote for it.

Who is playing politics? Trump desperately wants (needs) to win the election so he can stay out of jail. He cares about NOTHING else, certainly not the country or his supporters.

[youthathletics]

The pendulum is at its most extreme point when it is on its way back...I'd hope we are in a correction phase. I think Biden and the extreme liberals have swung us too far, the Trump fringe base is the other extreme (arguably) trying to overcorrect.

Many here seem to have been hooked by the political tactics, tolerate damned near anything from the extreme sides, for the sole reason that it is counter to the other side...being played by the divisiveness of partisan politics.

Keep in mind, how many times have we heard that Trumps policies were zilch, he did nothing...other than give the left almost everything they wanted when it was time to negotiate spending; the dems won each and every time.

How ironic that the Biden Admin boasts that they are rolling back all of TRumps Border policies in 2020, open the flood gates, create a crisis, and now conveniently election time, Biden is now talking like he cares about the border again. Biden Issues Order Allowing Temporary Border Closure to Migrants Silly politicians playing us once again. I suppose they forgot that when Trump was building the wall he also said it would have a new beautiful door.

....so I wonder, was the crisis really just an opportunity to get our population up, get some added cheap labor in here as we navigate bringing manufacturing back from overseas, show just how touchy feely we are, otherwise...why did do it?

We are all being played, picking sides seems intentionally planned, if we allow them to pit us against one another. Their end goal is expand their base....

What if we collectively changed our voter registrations to independent, what are the repercussions of that?

To your last question , little to none. The system presents only two viable options each cycle. Begin a new party like Teddy Roosevelt if you want, but independent still means making a final choice and ultimately it comes down to needing to decide between two alternatives…for one cycle.

That is, unless one Party is hellbent on removing the possibility of a viable alternative, as we’ve seen around the world in other fascistic authoritarian autocracies that moved from democracy to autocracy.

I just don’t see that from Biden and the moderate wing of the Dems he represents but the MAGA dominated GOP is explicitly telling us they so intend.

Believe them. They are very organized this time.

BUT....it send the message that their base is eroding, its the only way they 'hear' us, otherwise they are emboldened. Why is it congress/reps have such a low approval rating...~20% and yet a re-election rate almost the counter of that in percent. When they own the base, they own us, and their base is most often their registered constituency. My point is that it would take a couple few cycles, you got caught thinking immediately.

[Seacoaster(1)]

"Why is it congress/reps have such a low approval rating...~20% and yet a re-election rate almost the counter of that in percent."

Gerrymandered districts. They distort everything, including any semblance of democratic control of our trustees in the House.

[MDlaxfan76]

The pendulum is at its most extreme point when it is on its way back...I'd hope we are in a correction phase. I think Biden and the extreme liberals have swung us too far, the Trump fringe base is the other extreme (arguably) trying to overcorrect.

Many here seem to have been hooked by the political tactics, tolerate damned near anything from the extreme sides, for the sole reason that it is counter to the other side...being played by the divisiveness of partisan politics.

Keep in mind, how many times have we heard that Trumps policies were zilch, he did nothing...other than give the left almost everything they wanted when it was time to negotiate spending; the dems won each and every time.

How ironic that the Biden Admin boasts that they are rolling back all of TRumps Border policies in 2020, open the flood gates, create a crisis, and now conveniently election time, Biden is now talking like he cares about the border again. Biden Issues Order Allowing Temporary Border Closure to Migrants Silly politicians playing us once again. I suppose they forgot that when Trump was building the wall he also said it would have a new beautiful door.

....so I wonder, was the crisis really just an opportunity to get our population up, get some added cheap labor in here as we navigate bringing manufacturing back from overseas, show just how touchy feely we are, otherwise...why did do it?

We are all being played, picking sides seems intentionally planned, if we allow them to pit us against one another. Their end goal is expand their base....

What if we collectively changed our voter registrations to independent, what are the repercussions of that?

To your last question , little to none. The system presents only two viable options each cycle. Begin a new party like Teddy Roosevelt if you want, but independent still means making a final choice and ultimately it comes down to needing to decide between two alternatives…for one cycle.

That is, unless one Party is hellbent on removing the possibility of a viable alternative, as we’ve seen around the world in other fascistic authoritarian autocracies that moved from democracy to autocracy.

I just don’t see that from Biden and the moderate wing of the Dems he represents but the MAGA dominated GOP is explicitly telling us they so intend.

Believe them. They are very organized this time.

BUT....it send the message that their base is eroding, its the only way they 'hear' us, otherwise they are emboldened. Why is it congress/reps have such a low approval rating...~20% and yet a re-election rate almost the counter of that in percent. When they own the base, they own us, and their base is most often their registered constituency. My point is that it would take a couple few cycles, you got caught thinking immediately.

As seacoaster already responded, gerrymandering.

SCOTUS has disastrously upheld this noxious practice. Thank you right wing judicial activists.

Absent, a reshaping of the Court, it will likely require a Constitutional amendment to reform this.

But even with this in place, we see shifts in the parties in power…the issue immediately at hand, though, is that there is a large cohort which has explicitly decided they cannot achieve power by attracting the support of a majority of Americans. They understand birth rates and changing demographics weigh heavily in favor of social structure changes that they believe favor others, replacing their prior social hegemony.

We even see it at the state level where they have decided they can’t hold power without engineering minority control.

This cohort has spent the last 4 years preparing for an opportunity to again achieve power at the federal level without majority support and then to not allow credible opposition to reach power again…by any means necessary.

And a much larger mass of voters is oblivious to this organization, seduced by tribal sentiments, and overwhelmed bu organized propaganda.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

What I am saying is that we still have an opportunity to, without violence, reject the darkness that Biden and liberals represent.

I'd just like to comment on this because this is a point where we differ. You'll notice I changed the above names. I fully believe we are slated for just as much darkness with them. A different shade of darkness, admittedly--but darkness nonetheless.

Really. Biden represents darkness? Liberals represent darkness? Please explain fully.

Yes and yes and yes. Most to do with social issues in direct opposition to Judeo-Christian ethics. That's as fully as I'm going to explain. I'm sure you can figure it out from there.

BTW, please don’t quote anyone falsely. If you want to “correct” someone by replacing their words with others contrary to the original intent, make that obvious and call it out as such. Some people say that’s what they are doing and bold or color the changed text. Just good forum manners.

What do you think this was?

"You'll notice I changed the above names."

See, this is why I took a long break from interacting with you. I wrote four sentences--one of which was letting you know directly, in quoting you, that I changed the names to make my point. But that's not enough of a heads up--and (*shocker*)--here comes the pedantic finger-wagging.

Welp--interacting with you was mildly interesting while it lasted.

[youthathletics]

"Why is it congress/reps have such a low approval rating...~20% and yet a re-election rate almost the counter of that in percent."

Gerrymandered districts. They distort everything, including any semblance of democratic control of our trustees in the House.

I understand that, but I do not understand that.....

Some Q&A....
YA asks: If you are an elected democrat official in a heavily gerrymandered district and your district is heavily democratic (essentially a lock for you to win)....then, all of a sudden you see your district changing from (d) to (i) or (r)....how do you as the representative of that district handle that?

[a fan]

"Why is it congress/reps have such a low approval rating...~20% and yet a re-election rate almost the counter of that in percent."

Gerrymandered districts. They distort everything, including any semblance of democratic control of our trustees in the House.

I understand that, but I do not understand that.....

Some Q&A....
YA asks: If you are an elected democrat official in a heavily gerrymandered district and your district is heavily democratic (essentially a lock for you to win)....then, all of a sudden you see your district changing from (d) to (i) or (r)....how do you as the representative of that district handle that?

Have more moderate policies that appeal to more voters. SImple.

Or....lose. And get a new candidate that has more moderate policies that appeal to more voters.

The above is why gerrymandering is so dangerous, and why we have so many nutjobs in the House.