Tewaaraton Award 2024

[DMac]

Subjective, yes, but can't agree with the if ever there were a year part, I just don't see any year in which a GK can be considered the best lacrosse player in the game for the reasons stated above. You've not presented much (any) of a case there.

[coda]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.

He had 6 games below 50% that is 35% of his games. Nobody would talk about a attackman that played 35% of his games below average. YOu have guy like Fracyon that finished just ahead of him in save percentage and had 3 bad games (19%), playing behind a less talented defense. I think PSU played defense by goalie. He saw a lot of good shots. Emmet Carroll led the nation in save percentage. He had 2 games below 50% (13%). His worst game was .478 save percentage in game 1. Again behind a less talented defense. Carroll would get my vote for the best goalie in 2024.

[laxfan1313]

Subjective, yes, but can't agree with the if ever there were a year part, I just don't see any year in which a GK can be considered the best lacrosse player in the game for the reasons stated above. You've not presented much (any) of a case there.

The last thing I want to do on May 31st is debate you. Have a great summer!

[laxfan1313]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.

He had 6 games below 50% that is 35% of his games. Nobody would talk about a attackman that played 35% of his games below average. YOu have guy like Fracyon that finished just ahead of him in save percentage and had 3 bad games (19%), playing behind a less talented defense. I think PSU played defense by goalie. He saw a lot of good shots. Emmet Carroll led the nation in save percentage. He had 2 games below 50% (13%). His worst game was .478 save percentage in game 1. Again behind a less talented defense. Carroll would get my vote for the best goalie in 2024.

It's not a big deal, but numbers don't tell the whole story. A goalie does more than try to stop shots. He calls out picks and slides. He leads the clear. He barks out instructions. Entenmann is the "captain" of the defense of the national champion. That carries a lot of weight.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Does anyone know when votes are actually cast versus when the award is announced?

[DMac]

Subjective, yes, but can't agree with the if ever there were a year part, I just don't see any year in which a GK can be considered the best lacrosse player in the game for the reasons stated above. You've not presented much (any) of a case there.

The last thing I want to do on May 31st is debate you. Have a great summer!

Was respectful, simply asked a reasonable question looking for your input as to how a player in such a specialized position who doesn't play in so much of the game can be considered the best player in the game. Pretty much figured you'd turn into an aszwhole (spare me, I know how to spell that...and recognize one) going in as you never disappoint in that respect. Oh, and it wouldn't have mattered if it were May 31st, December 24th, or Veteran's Day.
You have yourself a good summer too.

[coda]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.

He had 6 games below 50% that is 35% of his games. Nobody would talk about a attackman that played 35% of his games below average. YOu have guy like Fracyon that finished just ahead of him in save percentage and had 3 bad games (19%), playing behind a less talented defense. I think PSU played defense by goalie. He saw a lot of good shots. Emmet Carroll led the nation in save percentage. He had 2 games below 50% (13%). His worst game was .478 save percentage in game 1. Again behind a less talented defense. Carroll would get my vote for the best goalie in 2024.

It's not a big deal, but numbers don't tell the whole story. A goalie does more than try to stop shots. He calls out picks and slides. He leads the clear. He barks out instructions. Entenmann is the "captain" of the defense of the national champion. That carries a lot of weight.

It should not. Does anyone believe that ND would not have won the NC with Carroll or Fracyon as their goalie. It is an individual award, not a team award. I do not understand the idea of conflating the 2.

[laxfan1313]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.

He had 6 games below 50% that is 35% of his games. Nobody would talk about a attackman that played 35% of his games below average. YOu have guy like Fracyon that finished just ahead of him in save percentage and had 3 bad games (19%), playing behind a less talented defense. I think PSU played defense by goalie. He saw a lot of good shots. Emmet Carroll led the nation in save percentage. He had 2 games below 50% (13%). His worst game was .478 save percentage in game 1. Again behind a less talented defense. Carroll would get my vote for the best goalie in 2024.

It's not a big deal, but numbers don't tell the whole story. A goalie does more than try to stop shots. He calls out picks and slides. He leads the clear. He barks out instructions. Entenmann is the "captain" of the defense of the national champion. That carries a lot of weight.

It should not. Does anyone believe that ND would not have won the NC with Carroll or Fracyon as their goalie. It is an individual award, not a team award. I do not understand the idea of conflating the 2.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

[laxfan1313]

Subjective, yes, but can't agree with the if ever there were a year part, I just don't see any year in which a GK can be considered the best lacrosse player in the game for the reasons stated above. You've not presented much (any) of a case there.

The last thing I want to do on May 31st is debate you. Have a great summer!

Was respectful, simply asked a reasonable question looking for your input as to how a player in such a specialized position who doesn't play in so much of the game can be considered the best player in the game. Pretty much figured you'd turn into an aszwhole (spare me, I know how to spell that...and recognize one) going in as you never disappoint in that respect. Oh, and it wouldn't have mattered if it were May 31st, December 24th, or Veteran's Day.
You have yourself a good summer too.

Why are you the only one on this website who curses?

[coda]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.

He had 6 games below 50% that is 35% of his games. Nobody would talk about a attackman that played 35% of his games below average. YOu have guy like Fracyon that finished just ahead of him in save percentage and had 3 bad games (19%), playing behind a less talented defense. I think PSU played defense by goalie. He saw a lot of good shots. Emmet Carroll led the nation in save percentage. He had 2 games below 50% (13%). His worst game was .478 save percentage in game 1. Again behind a less talented defense. Carroll would get my vote for the best goalie in 2024.

It's not a big deal, but numbers don't tell the whole story. A goalie does more than try to stop shots. He calls out picks and slides. He leads the clear. He barks out instructions. Entenmann is the "captain" of the defense of the national champion. That carries a lot of weight.

It should not. Does anyone believe that ND would not have won the NC with Carroll or Fracyon as their goalie. It is an individual award, not a team award. I do not understand the idea of conflating the 2.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

because most of the best players are on the best teams. Those teams recruit at high levels. Just because you see umbrellas when it is raining, does not mean umbrellas are responsible for the rain.

[wgdsr]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.

He had 6 games below 50% that is 35% of his games. Nobody would talk about a attackman that played 35% of his games below average. YOu have guy like Fracyon that finished just ahead of him in save percentage and had 3 bad games (19%), playing behind a less talented defense. I think PSU played defense by goalie. He saw a lot of good shots. Emmet Carroll led the nation in save percentage. He had 2 games below 50% (13%). His worst game was .478 save percentage in game 1. Again behind a less talented defense. Carroll would get my vote for the best goalie in 2024.

It's not a big deal, but numbers don't tell the whole story. A goalie does more than try to stop shots. He calls out picks and slides. He leads the clear. He barks out instructions. Entenmann is the "captain" of the defense of the national champion. That carries a lot of weight.

It should not. Does anyone believe that ND would not have won the NC with Carroll or Fracyon as their goalie. It is an individual award, not a team award. I do not understand the idea of conflating the 2.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

agreed on your points and then some. they're also directly involved in 30-40 shots a game, which is more than anyone else by a large margin. that's a play inside every 2 minutes. plus d coordinator, clears, every save that's corralled is a cto and stop. to say a goalie's not in a game like other players, especially ones that might get decent chunks of their production just by being nearest the goal is a little nutz. does notre dame win if shellenberger if brandau replace kavanaugh? it's entirely possible.

the fact that the award has gone to an att for ages now, after at least giving middies a look early, definitely gives the impression that it's not best player, but best attackman. the enners going to ajax this year is refreshing.

[Gorilla Fan]

PK’s production vs opponents

https://x.com/ndlacrosse/status/1796573 ... _jxZLgpS5g

[coda]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.

He had 6 games below 50% that is 35% of his games. Nobody would talk about a attackman that played 35% of his games below average. YOu have guy like Fracyon that finished just ahead of him in save percentage and had 3 bad games (19%), playing behind a less talented defense. I think PSU played defense by goalie. He saw a lot of good shots. Emmet Carroll led the nation in save percentage. He had 2 games below 50% (13%). His worst game was .478 save percentage in game 1. Again behind a less talented defense. Carroll would get my vote for the best goalie in 2024.

It's not a big deal, but numbers don't tell the whole story. A goalie does more than try to stop shots. He calls out picks and slides. He leads the clear. He barks out instructions. Entenmann is the "captain" of the defense of the national champion. That carries a lot of weight.

It should not. Does anyone believe that ND would not have won the NC with Carroll or Fracyon as their goalie. It is an individual award, not a team award. I do not understand the idea of conflating the 2.

So explain why most of the recipients are members of a team that went deep in the playoffs.

agreed on your points and then some. they're also directly involved in 30-40 shots a game, which is more than anyone else by a large margin. that's a play inside every 2 minutes. plus d coordinator, clears, every save that's corralled is a cto and stop. to say a goalie's not in a game like other players, especially ones that might get decent chunks of their production just by being nearest the goal is a little nutz. does notre dame win if shellenberger if brandau replace kavanaugh? it's entirely possible.

the fact that the award has gone to an att for ages now, after at least giving middies a look early, definitely gives the impression that it's not best player, but best attackman. the enners going to ajax this year is refreshing.

I know I didnt say the goalie was not involved in the game. All I asked is does anyone believe that ND would not have been a NC, if their goalie was Fracyon or Carrol. (which went unanswered)

[Typical Lax Dad]

Anyone know when votes are submitted?

[DMac]

Subjective, yes, but can't agree with the if ever there were a year part, I just don't see any year in which a GK can be considered the best lacrosse player in the game for the reasons stated above. You've not presented much (any) of a case there.

The last thing I want to do on May 31st is debate you. Have a great summer!

Was respectful, simply asked a reasonable question looking for your input as to how a player in such a specialized position who doesn't play in so much of the game can be considered the best player in the game. Pretty much figured you'd turn into an aszwhole (spare me, I know how to spell that...and recognize one) going in as you never disappoint in that respect. Oh, and it wouldn't have mattered if it were May 31st, December 24th, or Veteran's Day.
You have yourself a good summer too.

Why are you the only one on this website who curses?

You need to wander outside the Cornell grounds and you'll find many a cursers on this website.

[laxfan1313]

Subjective, yes, but can't agree with the if ever there were a year part, I just don't see any year in which a GK can be considered the best lacrosse player in the game for the reasons stated above. You've not presented much (any) of a case there.

The last thing I want to do on May 31st is debate you. Have a great summer!

Was respectful, simply asked a reasonable question looking for your input as to how a player in such a specialized position who doesn't play in so much of the game can be considered the best player in the game. Pretty much figured you'd turn into an aszwhole (spare me, I know how to spell that...and recognize one) going in as you never disappoint in that respect. Oh, and it wouldn't have mattered if it were May 31st, December 24th, or Veteran's Day.
You have yourself a good summer too.

Why are you the only one on this website who curses?

You need to wander outside the Cornell grounds and you'll find many a cursers on this website.

Last I checked, this is the Tewaaraton thread. And I don't confine myself to just the Big Red. You're the only one who curses and also makes racist comments. Think about it over the summer.

[DMac]

You get an F in communication skills, Cornell educated and all.
You said on this website, not the Tewaaraton thread.

[Suitcase]

I’m
Not smart enough to decipher how accurate goalie stats are in telling us who the hardest
Guy to score on is. Love to hear from players who shoot on these guys in games and who they think is best stopper. In a few times seeing entenman up close , he has a unique style. Does not stand tall. He crouches and his 6’4 frame gets in the shooters visual I thjnk and shots ( net) they expect to see or
Take , don’t look great to them. I think he forces a lot
Of missed
Shots or non- shots when guys would usually hit the cage. Will be fun watching
Him in the PLL.

[BigTurn]

I’m
Not smart enough to decipher how accurate goalie stats are in telling us who the hardest
Guy to score on is. Love to hear from players who shoot on these guys in games and who they think is best stopper. In a few times seeing entenman up close , he has a unique style. Does not stand tall. He crouches and his 6’4 frame gets in the shooters visual I thjnk and shots ( net) they expect to see or
Take , don’t look great to them. I think he forces a lot
Of missed
Shots or non- shots when guys would usually hit the cage. Will be fun watching
Him in the PLL.

A lot of people pointing to entennmans <50% in several games (fair criticism), but what makes him great is that he stands on his head when the lights are brightest, and makes some saves in big moments that he has absolutely no business stopping. Talking diving save v. Michigan, diving save v. Cuse, butt end save v. Duke, clean save v colsey btb. His highlights from this season alone are ridiculous.

[coda]

I’m
Not smart enough to decipher how accurate goalie stats are in telling us who the hardest
Guy to score on is. Love to hear from players who shoot on these guys in games and who they think is best stopper. In a few times seeing entenman up close , he has a unique style. Does not stand tall. He crouches and his 6’4 frame gets in the shooters visual I thjnk and shots ( net) they expect to see or
Take , don’t look great to them. I think he forces a lot
Of missed
Shots or non- shots when guys would usually hit the cage. Will be fun watching
Him in the PLL.

A lot of people pointing to entennmans <50% in several games (fair criticism), but what makes him great is that he stands on his head when the lights are brightest, and makes some saves in big moments that he has absolutely no business stopping. Talking diving save v. Michigan, diving save v. Cuse, butt end save v. Duke, clean save v colsey btb. His highlights from this season alone are ridiculous.

I think this was true last year. He made some saves this year, but take a look at the close games..
Gtown- He was the worst goalie on the field
Cuse game- 2 goal win.. He was the worst goalie on the field
Cornell game OT win- 43% vs 44% by a kid who was benched.
those tight games, he was not at his best.