Tewaaraton Award 2024

[coda]

What time is the announcement made?

Made. Pat Kavanagh

Well-deserved. I'm a little disappointed for Shellenberger, but there are worse things in life.

Is it me or is this a year where it’s hard to have a strong opinion about who should win? I would voted Shelly, but nothing I would argue strenuously

[Laxguy703]

Well deserved for Kav. Best offensive player on the best team.

Bummer that Shelly is leaving Charlottesville without a tewey to his name. I personally believe he’s been the best player in college lacrosse the last few years. The kid could’ve put up 7 points a game if he really wanted to but his unselfish style of play would never let that happen. Makes the right play every time.

Going to be weird not seeing some of these legends not playing college ball anymore next year.

[keno in reno]

Bought a ticket for the dinner; I like to go when I can. Thought I'd be out of town but am staying local. It's a good event and the T Foundation has done a nice job in building up the live event over the years. I'm predicting either a Liam E or a Liam E/Pat Kav shared win.

Mark my words: Connor Shellenberger.

You heard it here first.

[Laxguy703]

What time is the announcement made?

Made. Pat Kavanagh

Well-deserved. I'm a little disappointed for Shellenberger, but there are worse things in life.

Is it me or is this a year where it’s hard to have a strong opinion about who should win? I would voted Shelly, but nothing I would argue strenuously

They could’ve given it to anyone outside of O’Neill. All other candidates had some sort of reason why they could’ve won it and they also have a reason they shouldn’t have.

- Brandau had the best regular season but not making the playoffs hurt him. If they were to make the tournament he probably would’ve won the award.
- O’Neill had too many stinkers to warrant him receiving this award.
- Entenmann was the best player in the country at times but had a few shaky games that probably took him out of the race. If he was a 60%+ goalie he probably would’ve won but his #‘s didn’t stand out to warrant a first ever tewaarton goalie.
- Kav had a great year but as I said in another post, he probably had one of the best supporting casts tailored to him which helped his game a ton. Team couldn’t focus soley on him like they would to Shelly/Brandau. His brother Chris is an elite shooter/dodger, midfield of Faison/Dobson/Mclane, and then the best inside guy in the country with Jake Taylor. Put a solid passer around that cast and it’s hard not to hit 50+ assist.
- Shelly had a great year and really carried that UVA team. Without him I don’t see them making the tourney. I think if he had a big game against UMD in the final 4 then he would’ve won it since he was playing really well these playoffs but a 2 point game won’t cut it. He’s been the best player in college lacrosse the last few years, but has fallen so short both times.

[norcalhop]

No gripes from me given ND won and Kav had 5 points

[BetweenTheLines]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Bought a ticket for the dinner; I like to go when I can. Thought I'd be out of town but am staying local. It's a good event and the T Foundation has done a nice job in building up the live event over the years. I'm predicting either a Liam E or a Liam E/Pat Kav shared win.

Mark my words: Connor Shellenberger.

You heard it here first.

I tried to warn you. 3 days ago! Maybe Shelly will get PLL MVP or something nice for his trophy case.

[BetweenTheLines]

What time is the announcement made?

Made. Pat Kavanagh

Well-deserved. I'm a little disappointed for Shellenberger, but there are worse things in life.

Is it me or is this a year where it’s hard to have a strong opinion about who should win? I would voted Shelly, but nothing I would argue strenuously

They could’ve given it to anyone outside of O’Neill. All other candidates had some sort of reason why they could’ve won it and they also have a reason they shouldn’t have.

- Brandau had the best regular season but not making the playoffs hurt him. If they were to make the tournament he probably would’ve won the award.
- O’Neill had too many stinkers to warrant him receiving this award.
- Entenmann was the best player in the country at times but had a few shaky games that probably took him out of the race. If he was a 60%+ goalie he probably would’ve won but his #‘s didn’t stand out to warrant a first ever tewaarton goalie.
- Kav had a great year but as I said in another post, he probably had one of the best supporting casts tailored to him which helped his game a ton. Team couldn’t focus soley on him like they would to Shelly/Brandau. His brother Chris is an elite shooter/dodger, midfield of Faison/Dobson/Mclane, and then the best inside guy in the country with Jake Taylor. Put a solid passer around that cast and it’s hard not to hit 50+ assist.
- Shelly had a great year and really carried that UVA team. Without him I don’t see them making the tourney. I think if he had a big game against UMD in the final 4 then he would’ve won it since he was playing really well these playoffs but a 2 point game won’t cut it. He’s been the best player in college lacrosse the last few years, but has fallen so short both times.

How did you arrive at "best supporting cast" for Kav vs. Shelly "carried UVA" ? Each was the emotional leader of his team and each had stellar supporting casts.

Cormier and Millon put up 143 points! The points distributions for both teams look very similar.

[BigTurn]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Bought a ticket for the dinner; I like to go when I can. Thought I'd be out of town but am staying local. It's a good event and the T Foundation has done a nice job in building up the live event over the years. I'm predicting either a Liam E or a Liam E/Pat Kav shared win.

Mark my words: Connor Shellenberger.

You heard it here first.

I tried to warn you. 3 days ago! Maybe Shelly will get PLL MVP or something nice for his trophy case.

Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. A favorite Corrigan saying.

[The Orfling]

One nice moment from the ceremony: they showed highlight reels for all of the finalists. When they played the highlight reel for Entenmann there were audible gasps from the crowd unlike any other reaction at a couple of the saves (particularly the dive back across the cage save that many have seen).

[Laxguy703]

What time is the announcement made?

Made. Pat Kavanagh

Well-deserved. I'm a little disappointed for Shellenberger, but there are worse things in life.

Is it me or is this a year where it’s hard to have a strong opinion about who should win? I would voted Shelly, but nothing I would argue strenuously

They could’ve given it to anyone outside of O’Neill. All other candidates had some sort of reason why they could’ve won it and they also have a reason they shouldn’t have.

- Brandau had the best regular season but not making the playoffs hurt him. If they were to make the tournament he probably would’ve won the award.
- O’Neill had too many stinkers to warrant him receiving this award.
- Entenmann was the best player in the country at times but had a few shaky games that probably took him out of the race. If he was a 60%+ goalie he probably would’ve won but his #‘s didn’t stand out to warrant a first ever tewaarton goalie.
- Kav had a great year but as I said in another post, he probably had one of the best supporting casts tailored to him which helped his game a ton. Team couldn’t focus soley on him like they would to Shelly/Brandau. His brother Chris is an elite shooter/dodger, midfield of Faison/Dobson/Mclane, and then the best inside guy in the country with Jake Taylor. Put a solid passer around that cast and it’s hard not to hit 50+ assist.
- Shelly had a great year and really carried that UVA team. Without him I don’t see them making the tourney. I think if he had a big game against UMD in the final 4 then he would’ve won it since he was playing really well these playoffs but a 2 point game won’t cut it. He’s been the best player in college lacrosse the last few years, but has fallen so short both times.

How did you arrive at "best supporting cast" for Kav vs. Shelly "carried UVA" ? Each was the emotional leader of his team and each had stellar supporting casts.

Cormier and Millon put up 143 points! The points distributions for both teams look very similar.

Kav’s supporting cast is sooo much better. His attack was a guy who had more points than him and the best inside guy in the country. The midfield was Eric Dobson(3x AA), Jordan Faison(best freshman mid in country), and Devon Mclane(a legit AA attackman getting the 2nd d-mid). All three of those guys would’ve been UVA’s best midfielders. That doesn’t include the 2nd and 3rd line midfielders they were running who would start anywhere else.

Cormier and Millon were great but without Shelly I don’t see UVA going very far. The offense was too dependent on him at times. Without Kav, I still see the Irish making the ship. It’s not even a knock on him, they were such a good team top to bottom that even if you took one guy out, they’d still be a top team.

[Laxter]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Bought a ticket for the dinner; I like to go when I can. Thought I'd be out of town but am staying local. It's a good event and the T Foundation has done a nice job in building up the live event over the years. I'm predicting either a Liam E or a Liam E/Pat Kav shared win.

Mark my words: Connor Shellenberger.

You heard it here first.

I tried to warn you. 3 days ago! Maybe Shelly will get PLL MVP or something nice for his trophy case.

Probably good with his natty ring. I think he is a better overall player than Kav. But they gave it to the best offensive player on the best team. Can’t say I’m shocked.

[wgdsr]

congrats to kavanaugh. the tewaaraton gets mucho hype vs tradition (see: me commenting here vs an enners thread), tho well earned. me, would've gone with entenmann or brandau, but i don't have a vote. 'merica.

[keno in reno]

Kav’s supporting cast is sooo much better. His attack was a guy who had more points than him and the best inside guy in the country. The midfield was Eric Dobson(3x AA), Jordan Faison(best freshman mid in country), and Devon Mclane(a legit AA attackman getting the 2nd d-mid). All three of those guys would’ve been UVA’s best midfielders. That doesn’t include the 2nd and 3rd line midfielders they were running who would start anywhere else.

Cormier and Millon were great but without Shelly I don’t see UVA going very far. The offense was too dependent on him at times. Without Kav, I still see the Irish making the ship. It’s not even a knock on him, they were such a good team top to bottom that even if you took one guy out, they’d still be a top team.

Shellenberger was a Tewaaraton-worthy candidate for his entire career. I personally think he was the best this year. But the supporting cast argument is insane. UVA had 2 other #1 recruits in the country on the team this year. Plus 6th year NCAA leading scorer Cormier, plus a bunch of other top recruits. He was not at a disadvantage. Both were worthy, but Kavanagh earned it at the end. All Shelly had to do was beat a Maryland team that ND destroyed.

[BetweenTheLines]

They could’ve given it to anyone outside of O’Neill. All other candidates had some sort of reason why they could’ve won it and they also have a reason they shouldn’t have.

- Brandau had the best regular season but not making the playoffs hurt him. If they were to make the tournament he probably would’ve won the award.
- O’Neill had too many stinkers to warrant him receiving this award.
- Entenmann was the best player in the country at times but had a few shaky games that probably took him out of the race. If he was a 60%+ goalie he probably would’ve won but his #‘s didn’t stand out to warrant a first ever tewaarton goalie.
- Kav had a great year but as I said in another post, he probably had one of the best supporting casts tailored to him which helped his game a ton. Team couldn’t focus soley on him like they would to Shelly/Brandau. His brother Chris is an elite shooter/dodger, midfield of Faison/Dobson/Mclane, and then the best inside guy in the country with Jake Taylor. Put a solid passer around that cast and it’s hard not to hit 50+ assist.
- Shelly had a great year and really carried that UVA team. Without him I don’t see them making the tourney. I think if he had a big game against UMD in the final 4 then he would’ve won it since he was playing really well these playoffs but a 2 point game won’t cut it. He’s been the best player in college lacrosse the last few years, but has fallen so short both times.

How did you arrive at "best supporting cast" for Kav vs. Shelly "carried UVA" ? Each was the emotional leader of his team and each had stellar supporting casts.

Cormier and Millon put up 143 points! The points distributions for both teams look very similar.

Kav’s supporting cast is sooo much better. His attack was a guy who had more points than him and the best inside guy in the country. The midfield was Eric Dobson(3x AA), Jordan Faison(best freshman mid in country), and Devon Mclane(a legit AA attackman getting the 2nd d-mid). All three of those guys would’ve been UVA’s best midfielders. That doesn’t include the 2nd and 3rd line midfielders they were running who would start anywhere else.

Cormier and Millon were great but without Shelly I don’t see UVA going very far. The offense was too dependent on him at times. Without Kav, I still see the Irish making the ship. It’s not even a knock on him, they were such a good team top to bottom that even if you took one guy out, they’d still be a top team.

We'll never know the counterfactual. What we can see:

Kav was responsible for 12%, 30%, and 19% of the team's goals, assists, and points. Shelly was responsible for 13%, 33%, and 21%. Marginal difference. Brandau was 19%, 49%, and 29% -- that shows outsized dependency (and has been discussed on this thread a few weeks back).

The only place where "too dependent" is maybe borne out in the data is turnovers: Kav 25 vs. Shelly 41. I only watched a handful of UVA games. Were those possessions forced because others didn't/couldn't step up?

I'd love to know actual touches/possessions data. If we use TOs + points as proxy (in the denominator), Shelly turns the ball over 33% of the time vs. Kav 24%. Diminishing marginal returns from extra touches that he shouldn't have had?

[laxfan1313]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

[DMac]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

[Finster]

This a top 5 team of all time. PK or LE

Dang. Cornell is then in the top 10 all time? Lost by one and should’ve won.

Congrats Cornell: you’re now top 10 of all time.



(The recency bias here is off the charts)

Shoulda coulda woulda. If rankings were purely transitive, maybe they would've been in the playoffs.

This ND team is certainly up there in the top 5 or top 10. I'm not old enough to go too deep in the history books, but only 2006 UVA and 2022 MD are definitely better. Even 2005 Hopkins eeked out wins en route to the championship. This ND team just got better and better as the season wore on. They avenged their lone loss. As of today, they're one of the best teams ever.

Also, I thought you bet on ND in the end? Just be grateful you went with your brain and not your heart.

Maybe throw money on PK now too since your GOAT had to watch today from PLL training camp.

Bought a ticket for the dinner; I like to go when I can. Thought I'd be out of town but am staying local. It's a good event and the T Foundation has done a nice job in building up the live event over the years. I'm predicting either a Liam E or a Liam E/Pat Kav shared win.

Mark my words: Connor Shellenberger.

You heard it here first.

I tried to warn you. 3 days ago! Maybe Shelly will get PLL MVP or something nice for his trophy case.

Probably good with his natty ring. I think he is a better overall player than Kav. But they gave it to the best offensive player on the best team. Can’t say I’m shocked.

I was hacked!!

I was writing ‘Izzy Scane’, OBVIOUSLY, and someone must have filched my password.

Congrats to Izzy, a well deserved winner.

Also to the third best Kavanaugh, Pat, I guess.

[coda]

What time is the announcement made?

Made. Pat Kavanagh

Well-deserved. I'm a little disappointed for Shellenberger, but there are worse things in life.

Is it me or is this a year where it’s hard to have a strong opinion about who should win? I would voted Shelly, but nothing I would argue strenuously

They could’ve given it to anyone outside of O’Neill. All other candidates had some sort of reason why they could’ve won it and they also have a reason they shouldn’t have.

- Brandau had the best regular season but not making the playoffs hurt him. If they were to make the tournament he probably would’ve won the award.
- O’Neill had too many stinkers to warrant him receiving this award.
- Entenmann was the best player in the country at times but had a few shaky games that probably took him out of the race. If he was a 60%+ goalie he probably would’ve won but his #‘s didn’t stand out to warrant a first ever tewaarton goalie.
- Kav had a great year but as I said in another post, he probably had one of the best supporting casts tailored to him which helped his game a ton. Team couldn’t focus soley on him like they would to Shelly/Brandau. His brother Chris is an elite shooter/dodger, midfield of Faison/Dobson/Mclane, and then the best inside guy in the country with Jake Taylor. Put a solid passer around that cast and it’s hard not to hit 50+ assist.
- Shelly had a great year and really carried that UVA team. Without him I don’t see them making the tourney. I think if he had a big game against UMD in the final 4 then he would’ve won it since he was playing really well these playoffs but a 2 point game won’t cut it. He’s been the best player in college lacrosse the last few years, but has fallen so short both times.

How did you arrive at "best supporting cast" for Kav vs. Shelly "carried UVA" ? Each was the emotional leader of his team and each had stellar supporting casts.

Cormier and Millon put up 143 points! The points distributions for both teams look very similar.

Kav’s supporting cast is sooo much better. His attack was a guy who had more points than him and the best inside guy in the country. The midfield was Eric Dobson(3x AA), Jordan Faison(best freshman mid in country), and Devon Mclane(a legit AA attackman getting the 2nd d-mid). All three of those guys would’ve been UVA’s best midfielders. That doesn’t include the 2nd and 3rd line midfielders they were running who would start anywhere else.

Cormier and Millon were great but without Shelly I don’t see UVA going very far. The offense was too dependent on him at times. Without Kav, I still see the Irish making the ship. It’s not even a knock on him, they were such a good team top to bottom that even if you took one guy out, they’d still be a top team.

I agree. I said last year I thought ND won the national championship, because the Kavs got hurt. That allowed that talented midfield to get way more involved. My biggest criticism on PKav prior to this year was he was so ball dominant. I think watching that offense hum in the playoffs, despite the injuries was a learning moment.

[coda]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

[laxfan1313]

I thought Entenmann deserved it. In a year when Ajax won the Enners that would have been poetic justice.

Entenmann is an outstanding GK, I don't believe that's even debatable. I struggle mightily, however, with crowning a GK the best player in all of college lacrosse inasmuch as there's just so much of the game that they don't participate in/are involved in. Respect your opinion but can you justify a GK being considered the best player in the game (not at his position or MVP of his team, but in the game). GKs have to have a separate award due to the uniqueness and specialization of the position, IMHO.
Don't feel any differently about a FOGO (I would if he stayed on the field and the GO were dropped from FOGO) either.

I agree. Better argument would be to ask if Entenmann is the best ND goalie ever. IF a guy like Baptiste could not win the Tewaarton, than I am not sure any non-goal scorer will ever win it again.

The decision is subjective. If ever there was a year for a goalie to receive it, this was the year, a year when a defenseman won the Enners. Congrats to Kavanagh. To the victors go the spoils.