All Things Russia & Ukraine

[old salt]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

[a fan]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

[a fan]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

[a fan]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

....which is why I would NEVER have gone overseas to fight in any of the dozens and dozens of optional wars, police actions, etc. if you tried to draft me.

Need me to protect the lower 48....my family friends and neighbors? Fine. No problem. Gimme a gun and some training. I'd fight even at my age for that.

[PizzaSnake]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

How did the wars end in Korea, Vietnam and Grenada?

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

What do you mean by " gives up"? I call that unconditional surrender. I guess Custer must have given up after the 7th Cavalry unit he commanded was wiped out to the last man. I guess that is sorta kinda like giving up. Technically the USA is still at war with North Korea. Amazingly that truce is still holding up, for now at least. Amazing enough is that neither side gave up. They have just put the war on a shelf for a date to be determined.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

What do you mean by " gives up"? I call that unconditional surrender. I guess Custer must have given up after the 7th Cavalry unit he commanded was wiped out to the last man. I guess that is sorta kinda like giving up. Technically the USA is still at war with North Korea. Amazingly that truce is still holding up, for now at least. Amazing enough is that neither side gave up. They have just put the war on a shelf for a date to be determined.

Did the USA surrender in Vietnam?

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

....which is why I would NEVER have gone overseas to fight in any of the dozens and dozens of optional wars, police actions, etc. if you tried to draft me.

Need me to protect the lower 48....my family friends and neighbors? Fine. No problem. Gimme a gun and some training. I'd fight even at my age for that.

That is the new fangled ideology where you don't call em wars anymore. You call em " police actions" That is much more convenient and palatable than declaring war. That just sounds way too harsh. The end result is still the same... death and destruction for everyone concerned.

[PizzaSnake]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

How did the wars end in Korea, Vietnam and Grenada?

Korean War never concluded with final peace agreement.

“During the 1954 Geneva Conference in Switzerland, Chinese Premier and foreign minister Zhou Enlai suggested that a peace treaty should be implemented on the Korean peninsula. However, the US secretary of state, John Foster Dulles, did not accommodate this attempt to achieve such a treaty. A final peace settlement has never been achieved.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

[Typical Lax Dad]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

How did the wars end in Korea, Vietnam and Grenada?

Korean War never concluded with final peace agreement.

“During the 1954 Geneva Conference in Switzerland, Chinese Premier and foreign minister Zhou Enlai suggested that a peace treaty should be implemented on the Korean peninsula. However, the US secretary of state, John Foster Dulles, did not accommodate this attempt to achieve such a treaty. A final peace settlement has never been achieved.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

You mean there was no total defeat or unconditional surrender by the USA?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/war ... t-win.html

[PizzaSnake]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

How did the wars end in Korea, Vietnam and Grenada?

Korean War never concluded with final peace agreement.

“During the 1954 Geneva Conference in Switzerland, Chinese Premier and foreign minister Zhou Enlai suggested that a peace treaty should be implemented on the Korean peninsula. However, the US secretary of state, John Foster Dulles, did not accommodate this attempt to achieve such a treaty. A final peace settlement has never been achieved.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

You mean there was no total defeat or unconditional surrender by the USA?

Maybe in the Magaverse…

[PizzaSnake]

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/war ... t-win.html

I guess this is why the “hills of Formosa” didn’t make it into the Marines’ song.

“With a thirst for revenge, the United States Navy and Marine Corps launched an attack on the Paiwan Natives until the latter were forced to retreat and disengage from war. However, the U.S. Navy, instead of going forward with decisively defeating the natives, retreated from Formosa and sailed back home. All the while, attacks on wrecked merchant ships by Formosan natives continued unabated.”

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

How did the wars end in Korea, Vietnam and Grenada?

Korean War never concluded with final peace agreement.

“During the 1954 Geneva Conference in Switzerland, Chinese Premier and foreign minister Zhou Enlai suggested that a peace treaty should be implemented on the Korean peninsula. However, the US secretary of state, John Foster Dulles, did not accommodate this attempt to achieve such a treaty. A final peace settlement has never been achieved.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

You mean there was no total defeat or unconditional surrender by the USA?

Maybe in the Magaverse…

Not involving an actual declaration of war. I don't know if unconditional surrender applies to a police action? It seems like in those circumstances people fight one another until one side gets bored and wants to do something else.

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

What do you mean by " gives up"? I call that unconditional surrender. I guess Custer must have given up after the 7th Cavalry unit he commanded was wiped out to the last man. I guess that is sorta kinda like giving up. Technically the USA is still at war with North Korea. Amazingly that truce is still holding up, for now at least. Amazing enough is that neither side gave up. They have just put the war on a shelf for a date to be determined.

Did the USA surrender in Vietnam?

Sort of old sod we quit. We shouldn't have been there in the first place. That damn domino theory and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution befuddled a lot of Democrats and Republicans in the early 60s. Had to stem the red tide we did.

[cradleandshoot]

The Cruise Missiles of June

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/28/europe/u ... index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... _d1_dbrief

So Putin is saying we can launch missiles at Ukraine but Ukraine had better not launch missiles at Russia. That would be unacceptable.

And the US is saying that the EU and the US can help Ukraine, but China can't help Russia.

Welcome to wartime "logic", cradle.

My logic is simple and I've said it numerous times. War is hell and most people can't wrap their brains around that.

Yep. Which is why you stay the F out of them, unless you are directly defending your own country, or your treaty-bound allies.

Also because most people can't stomach the reality of what it takes to win a war. It use to be the daily carnage wasn't broadcast on the nightly news. Hard to comprehend seeing little babies being pulled from bombed out buildings. Harder still to comprehend how any adversary would put those lives at risk by deliberately using them as human shields. I'll say it yet again war is hell and so is what it takes to win a war. I will say this and I know many of you will disagree... cease fires don't win wars. They can delay the inevitable but sooner or later the only thing that will win any war is total defeat or unconditional surrender.

Wars end when one “side” gives up.

How did the wars end in Korea, Vietnam and Grenada?

Korean War never concluded with final peace agreement.

“During the 1954 Geneva Conference in Switzerland, Chinese Premier and foreign minister Zhou Enlai suggested that a peace treaty should be implemented on the Korean peninsula. However, the US secretary of state, John Foster Dulles, did not accommodate this attempt to achieve such a treaty. A final peace settlement has never been achieved.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_ ... _Agreement

That is what I said. The conflict will begin again at a date, time and place to be determined. Probably the fact that the 2nd Infantry Division has been parked at the DMZ since 1953 might have something to do with that? Warrior Base the last time I knew was still the longest continually active fire base in the US Army. Those boys spend their days and nights patrolling the DMZ. Is that a fun job or what?