Collegiate Lacrosse Coverage is Lacking

[Late Slide]

It's interesting to me that there are so few, comprehensive online resources for collegiate lacrosse news, developments, etc. when considering the total number of D1-D3 lacrosse programs, the purported growth year over year via US Lacrosse's annual report, the emergence and growth of the PLL, and the saturation insanity of youth club.

Sure there's Inside Lacrosse and a few others, but the coverage and resources committed or available are fairly sparse. Even this Forum is one of the very few locations for broad discourse.

What's it going to take? Or has the sport's coverage peaked? I'm talking across the board, not just ACC, Ivies, etc.

[LaxPundit07]

This is a good question.

Inside Lacrosse and lacrosse media in general really peaked between 2005 and 2015. This is when IL had their media partnership with ESPN. They were essentially ESPN’s arm for the sport of lacrosse. They hosted their own events where top teams would play in top NFL stadiums during the season, in places like the Meadowlands and Ravens stadium. You would see more games on the mothership during regular season and coverage was more broad. In my opinion, the advent of streaming actually hurt the sport. Broadcast partners like ESPN could throw the sport on ESPN+ instead of airing it over the air. So while we have more access to the sport from a streaming perspective, we have less access to the sport in high profile places. At least that is my opinion.

As much as Rabil and the PLL get ragged on, I’ve listened to him enough to really believe in what they are trying to do. Paul and Mike are many things, but they are not hasty. They've invested in a lot of market research and understanding other leagues and their successes. They’ve talked a lot about building their brand through big, marketable names like Rabil, Schreiber, etc. Some of their commercial spots during the NCAA tournament were great examples of that (specially the one commercial that showed all their big name guys as kids playing the game). They are trying to go the NBA route where the majority of their fans will really rally around their “guy” not just their team. They are betting folks will create a connection with individual players and their stories and journeys.

All of this is to say, I think the college game has really fallen off in terms of media coverage….and Rabil and company are trying to build a brand and product that command more eyeballs, interest, and coverage.

[norcalhop]

Attendance at games is around 3k for most venues? Not enough revenue in the sport. When commentators continuously explain the rules (it's not where the ball goes out of bounds etc, etc), It will remain niche for a while.

[DocBarrister]

This is a good question.

Inside Lacrosse and lacrosse media in general really peaked between 2005 and 2015. This is when IL had their media partnership with ESPN. They were essentially ESPN’s arm for the sport of lacrosse. They hosted their own events where top teams would play in top NFL stadiums during the season, in places like the Meadowlands and Ravens stadium. You would see more games on the mothership during regular season and coverage was more broad. In my opinion, the advent of streaming actually hurt the sport. Broadcast partners like ESPN could throw the sport on ESPN+ instead of airing it over the air. So while we have more access to the sport from a streaming perspective, we have less access to the sport in high profile places. At least that is my opinion.

As much as Rabil and the PLL get ragged on, I’ve listened to him enough to really believe in what they are trying to do. Paul and Mike are many things, but they are not hasty. They've invested in a lot of market research and understanding other leagues and their successes. They’ve talked a lot about building their brand through big, marketable names like Rabil, Schreiber, etc. Some of their commercial spots during the NCAA tournament were great examples of that (specially the one commercial that showed all their big name guys as kids playing the game). They are trying to go the NBA route where the majority of their fans will really rally around their “guy” not just their team. They are betting folks will create a connection with individual players and their stories and journeys.

All of this is to say, I think the college game has really fallen off in terms of media coverage….and Rabil and company are trying to build a brand and product that command more eyeballs, interest, and coverage.

Well, Rabil and his PLL pretty much wiped out the MLL in just a couple of years. Guy knows how to run a business and promote the heck out of it. Rabil is also a bit ruthless (in a good way).

DocBarrister

[CU77]

It's interesting to me that there are so few, comprehensive online resources for collegiate lacrosse news, developments, etc.

No money in it. Whoever bought the old laxpower site tried to monetize it and failed.

[LaxPundit07]

This is a good question.

Inside Lacrosse and lacrosse media in general really peaked between 2005 and 2015. This is when IL had their media partnership with ESPN. They were essentially ESPN’s arm for the sport of lacrosse. They hosted their own events where top teams would play in top NFL stadiums during the season, in places like the Meadowlands and Ravens stadium. You would see more games on the mothership during regular season and coverage was more broad. In my opinion, the advent of streaming actually hurt the sport. Broadcast partners like ESPN could throw the sport on ESPN+ instead of airing it over the air. So while we have more access to the sport from a streaming perspective, we have less access to the sport in high profile places. At least that is my opinion.

As much as Rabil and the PLL get ragged on, I’ve listened to him enough to really believe in what they are trying to do. Paul and Mike are many things, but they are not hasty. They've invested in a lot of market research and understanding other leagues and their successes. They’ve talked a lot about building their brand through big, marketable names like Rabil, Schreiber, etc. Some of their commercial spots during the NCAA tournament were great examples of that (specially the one commercial that showed all their big name guys as kids playing the game). They are trying to go the NBA route where the majority of their fans will really rally around their “guy” not just their team. They are betting folks will create a connection with individual players and their stories and journeys.

All of this is to say, I think the college game has really fallen off in terms of media coverage….and Rabil and company are trying to build a brand and product that command more eyeballs, interest, and coverage.

Well, Rabil and his PLL pretty much wiped out the MLL in just a couple of years. Guy knows how to run a business and promote the heck out of it. Rabil is also a bit ruthless (in a good way).

DocBarrister

I took great joy in watching them bankrupt Brendan Kelly and the rest of the MLL old heads who thought their glorified beer league would persevere long term. Good riddance.

[10stone5]

^---- that was a disaster re: LP.

[jrn19]

It’s a niche sport. In the mid to late aughts there was a lot of interest in the sport and it looked like it had a massive head of steam (fastest growing sport and all that), so ESPN put a good amount of attention into it, there was more money and interest in it.

Eventually that boom waned off and the attention, interest, and $ backed off. Inside Lacrosse was really running low on funding till Tsai bought it.

For better or worse though, the sport’s interest is largely going to be driven by what ESPN puts into it and I don’t think this is down to streaming entirely (it sort of is connected)….but ESPN has just been slashing their budget for sports repeatedly over the last 5-6 years. Talent cuts, production cuts clearly, etc. What ESPN puts into its live events and a lot of its content in general is nowhere near what it was in the 2010s across the board. Lacrosse, as a sport near the bottom of the totem pole, is going to feel that acutely. They used to show highlights of other games at halftime or heck, even the game they’re broadcasting! They used to have studio coverage for the entire NCAA Tournament, not just the Final Four. All of these things have gone by the wayside and now it’s a bare bones production. You’ll get Carc’s segment with Charlotte North or previously reLaxin over and over and over and that’s it.

If there was more viewership in the sport and it got eyeballs baseball and softball got, they’d probably skimp for more. And frankly they still probably should, BTN and CBS Sports Net do such a better job. But the ROI is that this sport doesn’t draw a ton of eyeballs and we’re in budget slashing mode, so it’s get the minimal we can give it.

[OCanada]

It's interesting to me that there are so few, comprehensive online resources for collegiate lacrosse news, developments, etc.

No money in it. Whoever bought the old laxpower site tried to monetize it and failed.

I don’t know if it could ever have succeeded but it failed at least as much because of bad decision making and events external to laxpower itself. Laxpower itself was a rounding error in the new organization with no real rabbi

[shoothi]

Couple of thoughts on this.

when there is nobody at games during February and early March, playing in some venues surrounded by snow banks, does not make for good tv
why is it the most important game, the ncaa championship finals, played on one days rest but during the season it's one game a week.....revamping scheduling for a midweek game would make for better crowds and weather....all pluses for tv

playing on a lined football field is very confusing for the viewer....does not make for good tv....notice how nice it was to watch the semi and finals on a real lacrosse field.....if you want to be major sport, you need to have your own fields....not sharing a confusing football lined field.

the ball very seldom comes out of the stick.....it's ridiculous.....free up action with ground balls, these sticks need to changed so the ball comes out when checked..

get rid of the fogo, does not make for good tv in my opinion for the new viewer and only midfielders during faceoffs, no defense sticks on the wings

provide better commentary during games and every once in a while let somebody hit somebody without a ridiculous whistle

put a radar gun behind the goal so people can see the speed of the shot.

just my thoughts

[henryben]

FWIW I was talking with a buddy who was involved in pro lacrosse from the business side, his point was that advertisers *already* have (via other sports) the lacrosse “demographic” so the whole thing is a bit duplicative and not really worth significant $$$…

[Late Slide]

Couple of thoughts on this.

when there is nobody at games during February and early March, playing in some venues surrounded by snow banks, does not make for good tv
why is it the most important game, the ncaa championship finals, played on one days rest but during the season it's one game a week.....revamping scheduling for a midweek game would make for better crowds and weather....all pluses for tv

playing on a lined football field is very confusing for the viewer....does not make for good tv....notice how nice it was to watch the semi and finals on a real lacrosse field.....if you want to be major sport, you need to have your own fields....not sharing a confusing football lined field.

the ball very seldom comes out of the stick.....it's ridiculous.....free up action with ground balls, these sticks need to changed so the ball comes out when checked..

get rid of the fogo, does not make for good tv in my opinion for the new viewer and only midfielders during faceoffs, no defense sticks on the wings

provide better commentary during games and every once in a while let somebody hit somebody without a ridiculous whistle

put a radar gun behind the goal so people can see the speed of the shot.

just my thoughts

Excellent observations. You, Sir, have the job.

[BigTom5]

Beyond the amount of coverage being limited, the quality of coverage, particularly at Inside Lacrosse, has also taken a nosedive recently.

In a world where everyone is listening to 3-7 podcasts regularly, its a major disservice to our sport that the options out there are mediocre to unlistenable.

Terry Foy and Nick Osello being the flagship podcast at inside lacrosse says it all. Ossello is a try hard fake tough guy who clearly doesn’t watch a lot of the games and try’s to find ways to incorporate his mildly successful college and “pro” careers into every topic (almost as much as Mdlaxfan tries to force stories about his, his sons, or his dads playing days into every thread ). I think Terry Foy is well spoken and knows lacrosse, but when paired with Ossello it gives off the vibe of someone who desperately wants to sit at the cool kidS table and finally have inside jokes with people. People want a Monday morning podcast that gives insightful analysis on the weekends games, not 15 minutes on how many beers Nick drank that weekend and how it relates to that one time junior year when you had a sick rager after beating Albany in the playoffs.

Mark Dixon and Dan Flynn are bad in a different way. They are just super dry and boring and are only saved when they get an interesting interviewee. Also, no one cares for your 20 minute “give and go” rankings of your favorite Easter dishes. That’s not what people want in a lacrosse podcast.

Inside Lacrosse used to have decent stuff with the old Quint podcast, the Kyle Devitte / Dan Aburn podcast, and the Ty Xanders recruiting podcast, which gave good analysis and were entertaining. Now it’s just drivel.

The peak of podcasting was the Andy Towers NCAA lacrosse podcast (first with Ryan Danehy and then with Jamie Munro). Those were awesome. Great insights, highly entertaining. Can we please bring those back!

[GaitsRightHand]

I'll take Ossello and Foy's Tailgate over the Crease Dive with Doogs and Jordie.

Jordie isn't that bad, sometimes pretty funny. But Doogs is so annoying. Just the stereotypical, opinionated rich kid (with bad opinions).

[wgdsr]

Couple of thoughts on this.

when there is nobody at games during February and early March, playing in some venues surrounded by snow banks, does not make for good tv

why is it the most important game, the ncaa championship finals, played on one days rest but during the season it's one game a week.....revamping scheduling for a midweek game would make for better crowds and weather....all pluses for tv
it's not just tv, it's crowds, markets, competitive play. we've all played in bad weather, but the creep in game schedules to early feb (and then all of feb) is far from optimal just to give coaches more chances to "game plan". a later allowed start date, likely creating more midweek games again, probably helps. the final four weekend is an institution, any other proposals to me would likely make it substandard.

playing on a lined football field is very confusing for the viewer....does not make for good tv....notice how nice it was to watch the semi and finals on a real lacrosse field.....if you want to be major sport, you need to have your own fields....not sharing a confusing football lined field.
considering the quarters come up for bid, it should be a prereq... but 1st 2 are probably willingness and $$. so football lines don't get in that conversation, unfortunately.
the ball very seldom comes out of the stick.....it's ridiculous.....free up action with ground balls, these sticks need to changed so the ball comes out when checked..
they have changed the heads, it's better than 10 years ago, and the game is fine. imo. lot of talented players everywhere, and the shot clock has given defenses a reward.
get rid of the fogo, does not make for good tv in my opinion for the new viewer and only midfielders during faceoffs, no defense sticks on the wings
don't care about whether a new viewer likes faceoffs, and enjoy watching poles with skillz on wings.

provide better commentary during games and every once in a while let somebody hit somebody without a ridiculous whistle
the unnecessary roughness rule should be tweaked, but it likely won't.
put a radar gun behind the goal so people can see the speed of the shot.
assume you mean for more games, not just late nc$$ tournament games (which they had). probably picks up as time goes on if men's lax doesn't come under the chopping block.
just my thoughts

[BigTom5]

I'll take Ossello and Foy's Tailgate over the Crease Dive with Doogs and Jordie.

Jordie isn't that bad, sometimes pretty funny. But Doogs is so annoying. Just the stereotypical, opinionated rich kid (with bad opinions).

Yeah I wasn’t including the D-list podcasts of the world like Crease Dive or College Crosse. Those are clearly on the unlistenable end of the spectrum.

[jhu06]

I'll take Ossello and Foy's Tailgate over the Crease Dive with Doogs and Jordie.

Jordie isn't that bad, sometimes pretty funny. But Doogs is so annoying. Just the stereotypical, opinionated rich kid (with bad opinions).

Osello thinks Notre Dame Lacrosse is Alabama Football or Duke basketball and he's Gene Stallings or Grant Hill. There's a long list of insufferable people but he's the top. I loved Eamon Mcaneany. I thought he was a much better ambassador for that university, sport and program.

Doogs went to Dayton.

The problem across all the podcasts is the sound.

[MDlaxfan76]

Seems to me that the collegiate game, as is, is very exciting, with lots of drama. The caliber of play and the pace of play continues to improve era to era.

It's terrific that so many games are now available through streaming, albeit it would be even better if it attracted the TV coverage we see of some other relatively small sports. But it's just not warranted at present. That said, it's clear that the camera work is hugely better when it's a significant game broadcast by ESPN or such.

The game needs to continue to grow at the youth level, and that is being hampered, IMO, by getting away from affordable rec programs and shifting to pay to play club. Dunno what the fix is, but it's an issue.

In terms of scheduling, I think the season needs to be moved later as it's ridiculous to be playing in brutally cold conditions. And I think the league playoffs concept should be scrapped, returning the importance of league regular season games as paramount. That picks up a weekend and makes the regular season games the big deal.

I'd dump the NCAA altogether, and return to USILA management. I think a Championship tournament makes plenty of sense to run, but it should be run for the benefit of the sport, not the NCAA. That includes choosing venues most conducive to playing the game with the best potential for in-person crowds, with attractive youth pricing, with play-in games for the teams that win their conference regular season but aren't otherwise to be selected.

I'd run the Championship games of both Men's and Women's games in the same venue, and have a full week between Quarters, Semis and Finals. Forget the Memorial Day weekend format, go into June as needed.

[aubartolomei1]

Just out of curiosity... what are people looking for in terms of better lacrosse coverage? I'm just curious what the ideal looks like.

Many years ago, when I was more closely involved in both lacrosse and field hockey on a regular basis I recognized there was a gap and explored the possibilities around creating some freelance outlet that did reporting and podcasts. I had a couple of ideas at the time, but I think the reality is that there just isnt really a huge audience for someone to put in the time and effort to create content for so few people to read/listen to your content, which would make it really hard to monetize.

[steel_hop]

. Forget the Memorial Day weekend format, go into June as needed.

That is never going to happen as long as the games are being shown on ESPN. If you will look at ESPN right now, it is all college baseball and softball. Why, because it gets better numbers than lacrosse. Move the FF into June and you might as well move it to July, because it won't be on TV. Now, maybe that isn't the worst thing in the world - it would certainly drive up attendance at the games but likely not going to grow the sport.