Way too early 2025 top 5

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'm not sure one can really have confidence in any order going into next year

Notre Dame will likely be Top 5 based off the last couple years and they still do have a good amount of talent.

Maryland will be in there because they'll get the benefit of the doubt after this past year and Tillman's history

Princeton, Cuse, Cornell, UNC have the most returning but most/all of Princeton's guys from the 2022 Final Four team are gone, Cuse hasn't yet broken through to a Final Four, Cornell has to figure out that defense, and UNC has to prove it before they get that ranking

I'll guess ND, Maryland, Princeton, Cuse, and UVA; who with 4 Final Fours in the last 5 years has also earned a good amount of benefit of doubt

Who does Cornell return from their 2022 Final Four team?

[Gobigred]

I'm not sure one can really have confidence in any order going into next year

Notre Dame will likely be Top 5 based off the last couple years and they still do have a good amount of talent.

Maryland will be in there because they'll get the benefit of the doubt after this past year and Tillman's history

Princeton, Cuse, Cornell, UNC have the most returning but most/all of Princeton's guys from the 2022 Final Four team are gone, Cuse hasn't yet broken through to a Final Four, Cornell has to figure out that defense, and UNC has to prove it before they get that ranking

I'll guess ND, Maryland, Princeton, Cuse, and UVA; who with 4 Final Fours in the last 5 years has also earned a good amount of benefit of doubt

Who does Cornell return from their 2022 Final Four team?

Kirst, Long, Kelleher, Bozzi, Davis, Holmes, Knust, Caddigan, Singer and Wallace

[norcalhop]

I'm surprised UNC isn't being considered for top 5 by more people. They return a ton and have upgraded at goal and other positions via transfer portal. Don't forget their Duke win late season either.

[Finster]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

[Finster]

I'm surprised UNC isn't being considered for top 5 by more people. They return a ton and have upgraded at goal and other positions via transfer portal. Don't forget their Duke win late season either.

Just answered above

[HopFan16]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

Gianforcaro is the only guy there who moves the needle.

Dupuis seems like a pretty close replacement for McGovern. It is probably not a good sign that there isn't a single attackman on the roster Breschi trusts to start alongside Duffy and Dom Petro. You've gotta bring in a guy from Stony Brook? Their depth is extraordinarily suspect. Certain highly touted recruits have not panned out.

Wirtheim and O'Berry, fine, sure, whatever. Could help a bit. Not seeing the jump from 7-7, three years of mediocrity to suddenly top 10 because Duffy, Petro, and Wambach are a year older. Unlike Maryland, they have not earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

[Powellfan22]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

Gianforcaro is the only guy there who moves the needle.

Dupuis seems like a pretty close replacement for McGovern. It is probably not a good sign that there isn't a single attackman on the roster Breschi trusts to start alongside Duffy and Dom Petro. You've gotta bring in a guy from Stony Brook? Their depth is extraordinarily suspect. Certain highly touted recruits have not panned out.

Wirtheim and O'Berry, fine, sure, whatever. Could help a bit. Not seeing the jump from 7-7, three years of mediocrity to suddenly top 10 because Duffy, Petro, and Wambach are a year older. Unlike Maryland, they have not earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

Krieg is gone too. Kind of amazing that a four year starter in goal gets so overlooked. Gianforcaro is a good addition, but I don’t really think that goalie was an issue for them last year. “Winning” the portal doesn’t really look like past years if this is what qualifies.

UNCs midfield has been a wasteland the last two years. Wirtham is a good add, but they need much more. They have top recruits coming in, but they do every year and the transition to college midfield is perhaps the hardest. I agree they are nowhere near top five.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I'm not sure one can really have confidence in any order going into next year

Notre Dame will likely be Top 5 based off the last couple years and they still do have a good amount of talent.

Maryland will be in there because they'll get the benefit of the doubt after this past year and Tillman's history

Princeton, Cuse, Cornell, UNC have the most returning but most/all of Princeton's guys from the 2022 Final Four team are gone, Cuse hasn't yet broken through to a Final Four, Cornell has to figure out that defense, and UNC has to prove it before they get that ranking

I'll guess ND, Maryland, Princeton, Cuse, and UVA; who with 4 Final Fours in the last 5 years has also earned a good amount of benefit of doubt

Who does Cornell return from their 2022 Final Four team?

Kirst, Long, Kelleher, Bozzi, Davis, Holmes, Knust, Caddigan, Singer and Wallace

Thanks…Freshmen in 2022? Cornell’s players seem to always be under appreciated.

[Laxitup21]

No way on UNC. On paper, maybe. Based on the profile of their recruits but they’ve shown nothing.

Duffy and Don will be a nice duo. I expect them to take a step like Spallina and Hiltz did this year but lacrosse is the ultimate team game. Until UNC has midfielders who can score and true maturity from their attack men then it’s another long year.

That Princeton goalie should help and strong defenders scattered but they need to show something before they would be considered.

[JerrysWorld]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

Gianforcaro is the only guy there who moves the needle.

Dupuis seems like a pretty close replacement for McGovern. It is probably not a good sign that there isn't a single attackman on the roster Breschi trusts to start alongside Duffy and Dom Petro. You've gotta bring in a guy from Stony Brook? Their depth is extraordinarily suspect. Certain highly touted recruits have not panned out.

Wirtheim and O'Berry, fine, sure, whatever. Could help a bit. Not seeing the jump from 7-7, three years of mediocrity to suddenly top 10 because Duffy, Petro, and Wambach are a year older. Unlike Maryland, they have not earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

This is spot on IMO

[coda]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

Gianforcaro is the only guy there who moves the needle.

Dupuis seems like a pretty close replacement for McGovern. It is probably not a good sign that there isn't a single attackman on the roster Breschi trusts to start alongside Duffy and Dom Petro. You've gotta bring in a guy from Stony Brook? Their depth is extraordinarily suspect. Certain highly touted recruits have not panned out.

Wirtheim and O'Berry, fine, sure, whatever. Could help a bit. Not seeing the jump from 7-7, three years of mediocrity to suddenly top 10 because Duffy, Petro, and Wambach are a year older. Unlike Maryland, they have not earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

I agree. I suspect culture is the issue, not talent. That view was only bolstered by the Duffy rumors

[Finster]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

Gianforcaro is the only guy there who moves the needle.

Dupuis seems like a pretty close replacement for McGovern. It is probably not a good sign that there isn't a single attackman on the roster Breschi trusts to start alongside Duffy and Dom Petro. You've gotta bring in a guy from Stony Brook? Their depth is extraordinarily suspect. Certain highly touted recruits have not panned out.

Wirtheim and O'Berry, fine, sure, whatever. Could help a bit. Not seeing the jump from 7-7, three years of mediocrity to suddenly top 10 because Duffy, Petro, and Wambach are a year older. Unlike Maryland, they have not earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

This is spot on IMO

You fella's are underestimating (by A LOT!) the impact of Wambach; this kid began to excel in late season games. Got better with each game. UNC will get the ball far more often than not next year, allowing the offense to gel and the defense to rest. Wambach got the jump on or tied up Colletti, Naso, Kohn...all the big names at FO. He will do REALLY well next year.

Meanwhile the rest of the ACC is losing significant production...every team.

Top 10. Zero doubt.

[HopFan16]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

Gianforcaro is the only guy there who moves the needle.

Dupuis seems like a pretty close replacement for McGovern. It is probably not a good sign that there isn't a single attackman on the roster Breschi trusts to start alongside Duffy and Dom Petro. You've gotta bring in a guy from Stony Brook? Their depth is extraordinarily suspect. Certain highly touted recruits have not panned out.

Wirtheim and O'Berry, fine, sure, whatever. Could help a bit. Not seeing the jump from 7-7, three years of mediocrity to suddenly top 10 because Duffy, Petro, and Wambach are a year older. Unlike Maryland, they have not earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

This is spot on IMO

You fella's are underestimating (by A LOT!) the impact of Wambach; this kid began to excel in late season games. Got better with each game. UNC will get the ball far more often than not next year, allowing the offense to gel and the defense to rest. Wambach got the jump on or tied up Colletti, Naso, Kohn...all the big names at FO. He will do REALLY well next year.

Meanwhile the rest of the ACC is losing significant production...every team.

Top 10. Zero doubt.

Actually he was a lot better in the first half of the season. Over 50% in all seven games. Then over the second half he wore down a bit. Over 50% in just three of seven. Competition had something to do with that for sure but "got better with each game" just isn't true. He is a very good FOGO, but he was a very good FOGO this year, and it didn't help them much. And now they lose Tyeryar, who was more than just a change of pace option. 62% on 120 draws. They'll have to find someone else to spell Wambach. More reps increases the injury and wear-and-tear risk.

UNC is losing significant production too, it's just that people don't really care because they weren't good. They're losing something like 11 seniors and grad students who got regular minutes including guys I didn't mention before like their top SSDM Striano

Again, do think they will be better, won't be surprised if they make some noise and contend for a spot in the tourney, but there absolutely should be some doubt about a preseason top 10 ranking. Guess we'll have to check back here in a year.

[Laxitup21]

UNC doesn't belong anywhere near the top 5. They have a lot returning, yes, but they're returning from a team that hasn't been any good in three years. Their rising junior and senior classes have been complete duds. Not seeing a ton of experienced, proven veteran leadership on that team so while their rising soph class is quite talented, that's still a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it's not like they're losing nothing either — McGovern, Tyerar, Geppert, etc. are nontrivial losses. No one is going to be surprised if they're better next year and perhaps back in the playoff mix, but they shouldn't sniff the top 5 or frankly the top 10 just because they have a few promising freshmen returning from a team that stunk. I'm good with them around 12-15.

UNC so far us winning the transfer portal, with significant talent at critical positions:

Michael Gianforcaro (G, Princeton)
Spencer Wirtheim (M, Cornell)
Nick Dupuis (A, Stony Brook)
MAndrew O'Berry (SSDM, Harvard)

Given their returning FOGO, they will absolutely be top-10.

Gianforcaro is the only guy there who moves the needle.

Dupuis seems like a pretty close replacement for McGovern. It is probably not a good sign that there isn't a single attackman on the roster Breschi trusts to start alongside Duffy and Dom Petro. You've gotta bring in a guy from Stony Brook? Their depth is extraordinarily suspect. Certain highly touted recruits have not panned out.

Wirtheim and O'Berry, fine, sure, whatever. Could help a bit. Not seeing the jump from 7-7, three years of mediocrity to suddenly top 10 because Duffy, Petro, and Wambach are a year older. Unlike Maryland, they have not earned any kind of benefit of the doubt.

This is spot on IMO

You fella's are underestimating (by A LOT!) the impact of Wambach; this kid began to excel in late season games. Got better with each game. UNC will get the ball far more often than not next year, allowing the offense to gel and the defense to rest. Wambach got the jump on or tied up Colletti, Naso, Kohn...all the big names at FO. He will do REALLY well next year.

Meanwhile the rest of the ACC is losing significant production...every team.

Top 10. Zero doubt.

There’s no doubt unc will be better but all most of us are saying is they have shown us pretty minimal. Seriously, who on their midfield can score? Duffy, Dom, Wambach, and 1-2 others are legit but they have as many question marks as other teams. Lucky for them, Duffy and Dom should be very good and an elite faceoff man is crucial but that o looked anemic this year.

[CU88a]

I’d actually swap UVA and Cuse or UNC and Cuse. Agreed the Princeton middies made them go.

I think people will really sleep on ND.

Duke is solid but attack is a major issue.

ND is buying titles, their roster has 14 graduate students listed as of today.

They are losing a LOT with 5 high impact graduate students departing (P. Kavanaugh, Entenmann, Conlin, Gray, McLane) and 3 high impact seniors (Dobson, Burgmaster, Parlette); collectively that represents 3 of their top 6 scorers; a starting attackman who is a double Tewaaraton finalist; 3 of the top offensive midfielders; 2 starting poles; one of their top 2 ssdms; most of the participants on the best EMO unit in memory; and arguably the best goalie in the nation on any given day. (And by the way, having this many 4 and 5 year guys in their line-up helps explain the two year dominant run by the Irish).

[BigTurn]

I’d actually swap UVA and Cuse or UNC and Cuse. Agreed the Princeton middies made them go.

I think people will really sleep on ND.

Duke is solid but attack is a major issue.

ND is buying titles, their roster has 14 graduate students listed as of today.

They are losing a LOT with 5 high impact graduate students departing (P. Kavanaugh, Entenmann, Conlin, Gray, McLane) and 3 high impact seniors (Dobson, Burgmaster, Parlette); collectively that represents 3 of their top 6 scorers; a starting attackman who is a double Tewaaraton finalist; 3 of the top offensive midfielders; 2 starting poles; one of their top 2 ssdms; most of the participants on the best EMO unit in memory; and arguably the best goalie in the nation on any given day. (And by the way, having this many 4 and 5 year guys in their line-up helps explain the two year dominant run by the Irish).

ND has a single new graduate transfer this year that plays: McClane. Conlin came last year and the rest are homegrown. Since I believe you’re a Yale guy Orfling, I don’t see how that’s any different than Brandau or any of the other Yale guys who left school to play extra seasons. A number of Cornell guys made that move as well. Essentially every other major ACC and B10 school also took on grad transfers. This was not something unique to ND

[Terpslax1991]

I'm surprised UNC isn't being considered for top 5 by more people. They return a ton and have upgraded at goal and other positions via transfer portal. Don't forget their Duke win late season either.
[/quote



The return the HC too….that may explain it

[The Orfling]

I’d actually swap UVA and Cuse or UNC and Cuse. Agreed the Princeton middies made them go.

I think people will really sleep on ND.

Duke is solid but attack is a major issue.

ND is buying titles, their roster has 14 graduate students listed as of today.

They are losing a LOT with 5 high impact graduate students departing (P. Kavanaugh, Entenmann, Conlin, Gray, McLane) and 3 high impact seniors (Dobson, Burgmaster, Parlette); collectively that represents 3 of their top 6 scorers; a starting attackman who is a double Tewaaraton finalist; 3 of the top offensive midfielders; 2 starting poles; one of their top 2 ssdms; most of the participants on the best EMO unit in memory; and arguably the best goalie in the nation on any given day. (And by the way, having this many 4 and 5 year guys in their line-up helps explain the two year dominant run by the Irish).

ND has a single new graduate transfer this year that plays: McClane. Conlin came last year and the rest are homegrown. Since I believe you’re a Yale guy Orfling, I don’t see how that’s any different than Brandau or any of the other Yale guys who left school to play extra seasons. A number of Cornell guys made that move as well. Essentially every other major ACC and B10 school also took on grad transfers. This was not something unique to ND

The red text part about "buying titles" wasn't from me -- that was a later poster. I was actually just making a regular sports point about how experienced their roster has been these past two years and that next year they'll have a lot of talent but also lose some really high impact experienced starters. I have no issue with somebody like Pat Kav who hung in there to get to play his four full seasons or a handful of guys like Brian Tevlin, Chris Fake (both of whom I rooted for last year), or Devon McClane taking their COVID year at Notre Dame. That's the current landscape and Notre Dame has navigated it the best -- tip of the cap (or the tam o'shanter) to them.

[Farfromgeneva]

I’d actually swap UVA and Cuse or UNC and Cuse. Agreed the Princeton middies made them go.

I think people will really sleep on ND.

Duke is solid but attack is a major issue.

ND is buying titles, their roster has 14 graduate students listed as of today.

They are losing a LOT with 5 high impact graduate students departing (P. Kavanaugh, Entenmann, Conlin, Gray, McLane) and 3 high impact seniors (Dobson, Burgmaster, Parlette); collectively that represents 3 of their top 6 scorers; a starting attackman who is a double Tewaaraton finalist; 3 of the top offensive midfielders; 2 starting poles; one of their top 2 ssdms; most of the participants on the best EMO unit in memory; and arguably the best goalie in the nation on any given day. (And by the way, having this many 4 and 5 year guys in their line-up helps explain the two year dominant run by the Irish).

ND has a single new graduate transfer this year that plays: McClane. Conlin came last year and the rest are homegrown. Since I believe you’re a Yale guy Orfling, I don’t see how that’s any different than Brandau or any of the other Yale guys who left school to play extra seasons. A number of Cornell guys made that move as well. Essentially every other major ACC and B10 school also took on grad transfers. This was not something unique to ND

Not really apples to apples - being at one place vs multiple after being a known college quantity.

[BigTurn]

I’d actually swap UVA and Cuse or UNC and Cuse. Agreed the Princeton middies made them go.

I think people will really sleep on ND.

Duke is solid but attack is a major issue.

ND is buying titles, their roster has 14 graduate students listed as of today.

They are losing a LOT with 5 high impact graduate students departing (P. Kavanaugh, Entenmann, Conlin, Gray, McLane) and 3 high impact seniors (Dobson, Burgmaster, Parlette); collectively that represents 3 of their top 6 scorers; a starting attackman who is a double Tewaaraton finalist; 3 of the top offensive midfielders; 2 starting poles; one of their top 2 ssdms; most of the participants on the best EMO unit in memory; and arguably the best goalie in the nation on any given day. (And by the way, having this many 4 and 5 year guys in their line-up helps explain the two year dominant run by the Irish).

ND has a single new graduate transfer this year that plays: McClane. Conlin came last year and the rest are homegrown. Since I believe you’re a Yale guy Orfling, I don’t see how that’s any different than Brandau or any of the other Yale guys who left school to play extra seasons. A number of Cornell guys made that move as well. Essentially every other major ACC and B10 school also took on grad transfers. This was not something unique to ND

The red text part about "buying titles" wasn't from me -- that was a later poster. I was actually just making a regular sports point about how experienced their roster has been these past two years and that next year they'll have a lot of talent but also lose some really high impact experienced starters. I have no issue with somebody like Pat Kav who hung in there to get to play his four full seasons or a handful of guys like Brian Tevlin, Chris Fake (both of whom I rooted for last year), or Devon McClane taking their COVID year at Notre Dame. That's the current landscape and Notre Dame has navigated it the best -- tip of the cap (or the tam o'shanter) to them.

Got it, didn’t realize it was someone else. I don’t love the covid years either, but everyone’s doing it. Agree with your points here.