All Things Russia & Ukraine

[cradleandshoot]

So back to the nitty gritty boys. The Ukrainian military had the gathering invasion force in their gun sights and could have wiped them out where they were organizing for an invasion of Ukraine. Why was that not allowed to happen??? Why??? Because attacking them while organizing their assault while still on Russian soil was against the policy of the US government. So why are all of you blue and yellow flag wavers not upset about this travesty of justice? Why Doc 72 should be at the rifle range right now honing his marksmanship skills. He is boldly flying the Ukrainian Flag. I'm guessing he will make a BFT for Russian snipers. It ain't like he would ever be willing to put his money where his mouth is. This is something any FLP worth their salt would understand. Typically when your living fat, dumb and happy on your PhD rear end common sense was never a requirement for your doctorate. Maybe some sort of comprehension of common sense should be included in all of the requirements to attain your doctorate. That would send a great number of you liberal melon heads into a tailspin. Common sense was NEVER discussed or even suggested by your professors now was it?

[a fan]

So back to the nitty gritty boys. The Ukrainian military had the gathering invasion force in their gun sights and could have wiped them out where they were organizing for an invasion of Ukraine. Why was that not allowed to happen??? Why??? Because attacking them while organizing their assault while still on Russian soil was against the policy of the US government. So why are all of you blue and yellow flag wavers not upset about this travesty of justice? Why Doc 72 should be at the rifle range right now honing his marksmanship skills. He is boldly flying the Ukrainian Flag. I'm guessing he will make a BFT for Russian snipers. It ain't like he would ever be willing to put his money where his mouth is. This is something any FLP worth their salt would understand. Typically when your living fat, dumb and happy on your PhD rear end common sense was never a requirement for your doctorate. Maybe some sort of comprehension of common sense should be included in all of the requirements to attain your doctorate. That would send a great number of you liberal melon heads into a tailspin. Common sense was NEVER discussed or even suggested by your professors now was it?

Once again, this is why the a little bit pregnant approach NEVER works.

[cradleandshoot]

So back to the nitty gritty boys. The Ukrainian military had the gathering invasion force in their gun sights and could have wiped them out where they were organizing for an invasion of Ukraine. Why was that not allowed to happen??? Why??? Because attacking them while organizing their assault while still on Russian soil was against the policy of the US government. So why are all of you blue and yellow flag wavers not upset about this travesty of justice? Why Doc 72 should be at the rifle range right now honing his marksmanship skills. He is boldly flying the Ukrainian Flag. I'm guessing he will make a BFT for Russian snipers. It ain't like he would ever be willing to put his money where his mouth is. This is something any FLP worth their salt would understand. Typically when your living fat, dumb and happy on your PhD rear end common sense was never a requirement for your doctorate. Maybe some sort of comprehension of common sense should be included in all of the requirements to attain your doctorate. That would send a great number of you liberal melon heads into a tailspin. Common sense was NEVER discussed or even suggested by your professors now was it?

Once again, this is why the a little bit pregnant approach NEVER works.

I'm not sure if a agree or disagree with your point. A little bit pregnant in NYS isn't an issue.

[old salt]

The US purchased Alaska from Russia, just as we purchased most of our territory west of the Mississippi from France.
Ukraine was an integral part of the original territory of the Russian nation. Just as our original 13 states were part of the USA.

I raised the question about choosing between Ukraine & Belarus because that is the question that thousands of Ukrainian young men currently face.
I find it revealing that Ukraine has still not made every citizen > 18 subject to conscription & mandatory service as Israel does. That is what most nations would do if they were fighting for their survival & their citizens felt their nation, government & way of life were worth fighting & dying for.

After 1992, Ukraine faced the same choices & opportunities that the other Soviet Republics faced. They were more favorably located & equipped to become a western democracy than any other former Soviet Republic. They could have followed the lead of the 3 Baltic states, become free democracies & earned entry into the EU & NATO before Russia turned to Putin. Instead, they chose to follow Russia, Belarus & other former Soviet Republics into becoming corrupt oligarchies....despite 2 revolutions & regime changes fomented by the US & EU.

Zelensky calculated that he could commit to join the EU & NATO & that Russia would not respond, despite the invasion of 2014 in response to the Maidan revolution & vows then to join the EU & NATO. Zelensky, the US, the EU & NATO all underestimated Putin's determination to follow through on his threat, his ability to retain the support of his population, & his ability to mobilize his nation & put his economy on a war footing. We (the West) are still playing catch up & have yet to mobilize sufficiently to ensure that we can or will equip Ukraine to the extent necessary to prevent defeat, let alone win back all their lost territory.

We (the West) have not yet collectively committed that we will do whatever is necessary for Ukraine to prevail.
...& we won't unless & until we have a Commander-in-Chief who is willing & able to make that case to the US public & convince our allies that we will follow through until the end. Biden has not done that & Trump won't.

[old salt]

Best case we can hope for. Take it.
Buy time to rearm Ukraine while they rebuild their army.
Trump will take it if Biden won't.
Make it an election issue.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... 024-05-24/

Exclusive: Putin wants Ukraine ceasefire on current frontlines
By Guy Faulconbridge and Andrew Osborn, May 24, 2024

Summary
Russian sources indicate Putin ready to halt conflict at front
Putin to take more land to pressure Kyiv to talk: sources
Does not want another national mobilisation: sources
Putin has no designs on NATO territory: sources
Russia concerned about nuclear escalation: sources

MOSCOW/LONDON, May 24 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin is ready to halt the war in Ukraine with a negotiated ceasefire that recognises the current battlefield lines, four Russian sources told Reuters, saying he is prepared to fight on if Kyiv and the West do not respond.
Three of the sources, familiar with discussions in Putin's entourage, said the veteran Russian leader had expressed frustration to a small group of advisers about what he views as Western-backed attempts to stymie negotiations and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy's decision to rule out talks.

"Putin can fight for as long as it takes, but Putin is also ready for a ceasefire – to freeze the war," said another of the four, a senior Russian source who has worked with Putin and has knowledge of top level conversations in the Kremlin.
He, like the others cited in this story, spoke on condition of anonymity given the matter's sensitivity.
For this account, Reuters spoke to a total of five people who work with or have worked with Putin at a senior level in the political and business worlds. The fifth source did not comment on freezing the war at the current frontlines.

Asked about the Reuters report at a news conference in Belarus on Friday, Putin said peace talks should restart.
"Let them resume," he said, adding that negotiations should be based on "the realities on the ground" and on a plan agreed during a previous attempt to reach a deal in the first weeks of the war. "Not on the basis of what one side wants," he said.
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said on X that the Russian leader was trying to derail a Ukrainian-initiated peace summit in Switzerland next month by using his entourage to send out "phony signals" about his alleged readiness to halt the war

"Putin currently has no desire to end his aggression against Ukraine. Only the principled and united voice of the global majority can force him to choose peace over war," said Kuleba.
Mykhailo Podolyak, a Ukrainian presidential adviser, said Putin wanted Western democracies to accept defeat.

NOT "ETERNAL WAR"
The appointment last week of economist Andrei Belousov as Russia's defence minister was seen by some Western military and political analysts as placing the Russian economy on a permanent war footing in order to win a protracted conflict.

It followed sustained battlefield pressure and territorial advances by Russia in recent weeks.
However, the sources said that Putin, re-elected in March for a new six-year term, would rather use Russia's current momentum to put the war behind him. They did not directly comment on the new defence minister.
Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov, in response to a request for comment, said the country did not want “eternal war.”
Based on their knowledge of conversations in the upper ranks of the Kremlin, two of the sources said Putin was of the view that gains in the war so far were enough to sell a victory to the Russian people.
Europe's biggest ground conflict since World War Two has cost tens of thousands of lives on both sides and led to sweeping Western sanctions on Russia's economy.
Three sources said Putin understood any dramatic new advances would require another nationwide mobilisation, which he didn't want, with one source, who knows the Russian president, saying his popularity dipped after the first mobilisation in September 2022.
The national call up spooked part of the population in Russia, triggering hundreds of thousands of draft age men to leave the country. Polls showed Putin’s popularity falling by several points.
Peskov said Russia had no need for mobilisation and was instead recruiting volunteer contractors to the armed forces.
The prospect of a ceasefire, or even peace talks, currently seems remote.
Zelenskiy has repeatedly said peace on Putin's terms is a non-starter. He has vowed to retake lost territory, including Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014. He signed a decree in 2022 that formally declared any talks with Putin "impossible."
One of the sources predicted no agreement could happen while Zelenskiy was in power, unless Russia bypassed him and struck a deal with Washington. However, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, speaking in Kyiv last week, told reporters he did not believe Putin was interested in serious negotiations.

SWISS TALKS
The Swiss peace summit in June is aimed at unifying international opinion on how to end the war. The talks were convened at the initiative of Zelenskiy who has said Putin should not attend. Switzerland has not invited Russia.
Moscow has said the talks are not credible without it being there. Ukraine and Switzerland want Russian allies including China to attend.
Speaking in China on May 17, Putin said Ukraine may use the Swiss talks to get a broader group of countries to back Zelenskiy’s demand for a total Russian withdrawal, which Putin said would be an imposed condition rather than a serious peace negotiation.
The Swiss foreign ministry did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
In response to questions for this story, a U.S. State Department spokesperson said any initiative for peace must respect Ukraine’s “territorial integrity, within its internationally recognised borders” and described Russia as the sole obstacle to peace in Ukraine.
“The Kremlin has yet to demonstrate any meaningful interest in ending its war, quite the opposite,” the spokesperson said.
Kyiv says Putin, whose team repeatedly denied he was planning a war before invading Ukraine in 2022, cannot be trusted to honour any deal.
Both Russia and Ukraine have also said they fear the other side would use any ceasefire to re-arm.
Kyiv and its Western backers are banking on a $61 billion U.S. aid package and additional European military aid to reverse what Zelenskiy described to Reuters this week as "one of the most difficult moments" of the full scale war.
As well as shortages of ammunition after U.S. delays in approving the package, Ukraine has admitted it is struggling to recruit enough troops and last month lowered the age for men who can be drafted to 25 from 27.

TERRITORY
Putin's insistence on locking in any battlefield gains in a deal is non-negotiable, all of the sources suggested.
Putin would, however, be ready to settle for what land he has now and freeze the conflict at the current front lines, four of the sources said.
"Putin will say that we won, that NATO attacked us and we kept our sovereignty, that we have a land corridor to Crimea, which is true," one of them said, giving their own analysis.
Freezing the conflict along current lines would leave Russia in possession of substantial chunks of four Ukrainian regions he formally incorporated into Russia in September 2022, but without full control of any of them.
Such an arrangement would fall short of the goals Moscow set for itself at the time, when it said the four of Ukraine's regions - Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson - now belonged to it in their entirety.
Peskov said that there could be no question of handing back the four regions which were now permanently part of Russia according to its own constitution.
Another factor playing into the Kremlin chief's view that the war should end is that the longer it drags on, the more battle-hardened veterans return to Russia, dissatisfied with post-war job and income prospects, potentially creating tensions in society, said one of the sources, who has worked with Putin.

'RUSSIA WILL PUSH FURTHER'
In February, three Russian sources told Reuters the United States rejected a previous Putin suggestion of a ceasefire to freeze the war.
In the absence of a ceasefire, Putin wants to take as much territory as possible to ratchet up pressure on Ukraine while seeking to exploit unexpected opportunities to acquire more, three of the sources said.
Russian forces control around 18% of Ukraine and this month thrust into the northeastern region of Kharkiv.
Putin is counting on Russia's large population compared to Ukraine to sustain superior manpower even without a mobilisation, bolstered by unusually generous pay packets for those who sign up.
"Russia will push further," the source who has worked with Putin said.
Putin will slowly conquer territories until Zelenskiy comes up with an offer to stop, the person said, saying the Russian leader had expressed the view to aides that the West would not provide enough weapons, sapping Ukraine's morale.
U.S. and European leaders have said they will stand by Ukraine until its security sovereignty is guaranteed. NATO countries and allies say they are trying to accelerate deliveries of weapons.
“Russia could end the war at any time by withdrawing its forces from Ukraine, instead of continuing to launch brutal attacks against Ukraine’s cities, ports, and people every day,” the State Department said in response to a question about weapons supplies.
All five sources said Putin had told advisers he had no designs on NATO territory, reflecting his public comments on the matter. Two of the sources cited Russian concerns about the growing danger of escalation with the West, including nuclear escalation, over the Ukraine standoff.
The State Department said the United States had not adjusted its nuclear posture, nor seen any sign that Russia was preparing to use a nuclear weapon.
“We continue to monitor the strategic environment and remain ready,” the spokesperson said.

Reporting by Guy Faulconbridge in Moscow and Andrew Osborn in London Writing by Andrew Osborn Editing by Frank Jack Daniel

[NattyBohChamps04]

They could sign the deal in Munich!

[old salt]

The area that Russia currently controls contains the highest %'s of ethnic Russians & Russian speakers.
It also comprises most of Novorossiya, which Putin vowed to annex.
He could declare victory & mission accomplished.

It does not need to be another Munich if the West continues to arm & fund Ukraine
& if Ukrainians mobilize completely & men of fighting age return & they all agree to defend their country.
...but that will take time & a cease fire/frozen conflict could provide that time.

[cradleandshoot]

So back to the nitty gritty boys. The Ukrainian military had the gathering invasion force in their gun sights and could have wiped them out where they were organizing for an invasion of Ukraine. Why was that not allowed to happen??? Why??? Because attacking them while organizing their assault while still on Russian soil was against the policy of the US government. So why are all of you blue and yellow flag wavers not upset about this travesty of justice? Why Doc 72 should be at the rifle range right now honing his marksmanship skills. He is boldly flying the Ukrainian Flag. I'm guessing he will make a BFT for Russian snipers. It ain't like he would ever be willing to put his money where his mouth is. This is something any FLP worth their salt would understand. Typically when your living fat, dumb and happy on your PhD rear end common sense was never a requirement for your doctorate. Maybe some sort of comprehension of common sense should be included in all of the requirements to attain your doctorate. That would send a great number of you liberal melon heads into a tailspin. Common sense was NEVER discussed or even suggested by your professors now was it?

Once again, this is why the a little bit pregnant approach NEVER works.

The Ukrainian military had them in their sites massing on the Russian side of the border. They had a golden opportunity to wipe them out. This is the stupid chit that happens when politics over rules common sense. So all of you folks out there waving your yellow and blue flags, I hope all of you ask the Biden administration why they wouldn't allow the Ukrainian military to do take advantage of the situation? Why, was Biden scared of ticking off Putin? Y'all yellow and blue flag wavers want Ukraine to win. How are they going to accomplish that with one arm tied behind their back.

Never underestimate Bidens ability to eff things up.

[jhu72]

So back to the nitty gritty boys. The Ukrainian military had the gathering invasion force in their gun sights and could have wiped them out where they were organizing for an invasion of Ukraine. Why was that not allowed to happen??? Why??? Because attacking them while organizing their assault while still on Russian soil was against the policy of the US government. So why are all of you blue and yellow flag wavers not upset about this travesty of justice? Why Doc 72 should be at the rifle range right now honing his marksmanship skills. He is boldly flying the Ukrainian Flag. I'm guessing he will make a BFT for Russian snipers. It ain't like he would ever be willing to put his money where his mouth is. This is something any FLP worth their salt would understand. Typically when your living fat, dumb and happy on your PhD rear end common sense was never a requirement for your doctorate. Maybe some sort of comprehension of common sense should be included in all of the requirements to attain your doctorate. That would send a great number of you liberal melon heads into a tailspin. Common sense was NEVER discussed or even suggested by your professors now was it?

Once again, this is why the a little bit pregnant approach NEVER works.

The Ukrainian military had them in their sites massing on the Russian side of the border. They had a golden opportunity to wipe them out. This is the stupid chit that happens when politics over rules common sense. So all of you folks out there waving your yellow and blue flags, I hope all of you ask the Biden administration why they wouldn't allow the Ukrainian military to do take advantage of the situation? Why, was Biden scared of ticking off Putin? Y'all yellow and blue flag wavers want Ukraine to win. How are they going to accomplish that with one arm tied behind their back.

Never underestimate Bidens ability to eff things up.

... more ahistorical bullsh*t from Gomer Pyle. I am sure your wife thinks you are smart.

[cradleandshoot]

So back to the nitty gritty boys. The Ukrainian military had the gathering invasion force in their gun sights and could have wiped them out where they were organizing for an invasion of Ukraine. Why was that not allowed to happen??? Why??? Because attacking them while organizing their assault while still on Russian soil was against the policy of the US government. So why are all of you blue and yellow flag wavers not upset about this travesty of justice? Why Doc 72 should be at the rifle range right now honing his marksmanship skills. He is boldly flying the Ukrainian Flag. I'm guessing he will make a BFT for Russian snipers. It ain't like he would ever be willing to put his money where his mouth is. This is something any FLP worth their salt would understand. Typically when your living fat, dumb and happy on your PhD rear end common sense was never a requirement for your doctorate. Maybe some sort of comprehension of common sense should be included in all of the requirements to attain your doctorate. That would send a great number of you liberal melon heads into a tailspin. Common sense was NEVER discussed or even suggested by your professors now was it?

Once again, this is why the a little bit pregnant approach NEVER works.

The Ukrainian military had them in their sites massing on the Russian side of the border. They had a golden opportunity to wipe them out. This is the stupid chit that happens when politics over rules common sense. So all of you folks out there waving your yellow and blue flags, I hope all of you ask the Biden administration why they wouldn't allow the Ukrainian military to do take advantage of the situation? Why, was Biden scared of ticking off Putin? Y'all yellow and blue flag wavers want Ukraine to win. How are they going to accomplish that with one arm tied behind their back.

Never underestimate Bidens ability to eff things up.

... more ahistorical bullsh*t from Gomer Pyle. I am sure your wife thinks you are smart.

Your the one flying the blue and yellow flag. Now that you have the personal attack out of your system do feel like your capable of responding to the issue at hand? The Ukrainian military had the massed Russian assault force zeroed in for obliteration. Your boy rumbling, bumbling and stumbling Joe Biden is responsible for these rules of engagement. Time to take your yellow and blue flag down doc and raise the solid white one. I was under the impression you wanted Ukraine to be victorious in the war against Russia. It looks like kissing Bidens ass is your bigger priority. No surprise there.

[cradleandshoot]

So can somebody on this forum please clarify this issue for me? I was under the impression a good number of you folks were avid supporters of Ukraine being successful in this conflagration with Russia. So I take notice of the fact the Ukes had a large Russian assault force just over the border dialed in and ready to blow them to chit. No the US says you can't use the weapons we gave you until AFTER the Russians have crossed the border and began blowing the Ukrainian military to chit. The US leadership under Biden verified his former bosses opinion of him. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE BIDENS ABILITY TO F**K THINGS UP. What a deal, the US is now shipping boat loads full of new ordnance to the Ukraine with the caveat of the US telling Ukraine how they can and can't use that ordnance. War will always be hell. It doesn't need to be STUPID at the same time.

[NattyBohChamps04]

So can somebody on this forum please clarify this issue for me? I was under the impression a good number of you folks were avid supporters of Ukraine being successful in this conflagration with Russia. So I take notice of the fact the Ukes had a large Russian assault force just over the border dialed in and ready to blow them to chit. No the US says you can't use the weapons we gave you until AFTER the Russians have crossed the border and began blowing the Ukrainian military to chit. The US leadership under Biden verified his former bosses opinion of him. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE BIDENS ABILITY TO F**K THINGS UP. What a deal, the US is now shipping boat loads full of new ordnance to the Ukraine with the caveat of the US telling Ukraine how they can and can't use that ordnance. War will always be hell. It doesn't need to be STUPID at the same time.

You didn't learn much in your time in the Army did you? Same with your preference to carry more Jerry cans than fewer?

I'm sure you'll respond with some unrelated anecdote, so go ahead and get it out of the way.

[cradleandshoot]

So can somebody on this forum please clarify this issue for me? I was under the impression a good number of you folks were avid supporters of Ukraine being successful in this conflagration with Russia. So I take notice of the fact the Ukes had a large Russian assault force just over the border dialed in and ready to blow them to chit. No the US says you can't use the weapons we gave you until AFTER the Russians have crossed the border and began blowing the Ukrainian military to chit. The US leadership under Biden verified his former bosses opinion of him. NEVER UNDERESTIMATE BIDENS ABILITY TO F**K THINGS UP. What a deal, the US is now shipping boat loads full of new ordnance to the Ukraine with the caveat of the US telling Ukraine how they can and can't use that ordnance. War will always be hell. It doesn't need to be STUPID at the same time.

You didn't learn much in your time in the Army did you? Same with your preference to carry more Jerry cans than fewer?

I'm sure you'll respond with some unrelated anecdote, so go ahead and get it out of the way.

Your response totally avoids the issue. You do remember what the issue was don't you? FTR Jerry cans are way cheaper than whizzing away hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars to solve an imaginary problem manufactured like bozos like yourself. Did you go to West Point? You think one like a typical westie...one dimension that is. I think that hole in your noggin provided the egress point for your brains to leak out onto your loafers. Here's your sign.
BTW since you forgot to respond to my original question...what do you think the Ukrainian military should have done? They had the Russian army dead to rights but Bidens policy said no no no no no no. You can't defend yourselves until the Russian army crosses the border and attacks you first. I always believed the objective if you had to go to war was to win. Hard to win a war with one arm tied behind your back while wearing a blindfold. So the USA gave these rockets to Ukraine to defend themselves. The catch is you can't use them until the Russian army is halfway done with kicking the chit out of your army. That is about as effing brilliant as Bidens withdrawal strategy from Afghanistan. At least Joe is consistent, he is an idiot 24/7/365

[PizzaSnake]

The US purchased Alaska from Russia, just as we purchased most of our territory west of the Mississippi from France.
Ukraine was an integral part of the original territory of the Russian nation. Just as our original 13 states were part of the USA.

I raised the question about choosing between Ukraine & Belarus because that is the question that thousands of Ukrainian young men currently face.
I find it revealing that Ukraine has still not made every citizen > 18 subject to conscription & mandatory service as Israel does. That is what most nations would do if they were fighting for their survival & their citizens felt their nation, government & way of life were worth fighting & dying for.

After 1992, Ukraine faced the same choices & opportunities that the other Soviet Republics faced. They were more favorably located & equipped to become a western democracy than any other former Soviet Republic. They could have followed the lead of the 3 Baltic states, become free democracies & earned entry into the EU & NATO before Russia turned to Putin. Instead, they chose to follow Russia, Belarus & other former Soviet Republics into becoming corrupt oligarchies....despite 2 revolutions & regime changes fomented by the US & EU.

Zelensky calculated that he could commit to join the EU & NATO & that Russia would not respond, despite the invasion of 2014 in response to the Maidan revolution & vows then to join the EU & NATO. Zelensky, the US, the EU & NATO all underestimated Putin's determination to follow through on his threat, his ability to retain the support of his population, & his ability to mobilize his nation & put his economy on a war footing. We (the West) are still playing catch up & have yet to mobilize sufficiently to ensure that we can or will equip Ukraine to the extent necessary to prevent defeat, let alone win back all their lost territory.

We (the West) have not yet collectively committed that we will do whatever is necessary for Ukraine to prevail.
...& we won't unless & until we have a Commander-in-Chief who is willing & able to make that case to the US public & convince our allies that we will follow through until the end. Biden has not done that & Trump won't.

When are you considering the formation of the "original Russian nation" occurred? The most obvious answer is the current entity, so the inception date would be post-Soviet Union breakup. Any prior date would be opening up a significant debate about what a nation is. Is a nation a unified, by force of arms or cooperative agreement, collection of peoples and cultures?

By that definition, is the United States of America the same "nation" as originally conceived and formed at its inception? What was that date? D of C? Constitutional Convention? One could certainly argue that the Civil War was a de facto re-birth of a new nation. And the history of the territory of the entity of the USA is certainly less complicated, in terms of European and other settlement and its attendant cultural claims and influences, than that of Ukraine.

[cradleandshoot]

The US purchased Alaska from Russia, just as we purchased most of our territory west of the Mississippi from France.
Ukraine was an integral part of the original territory of the Russian nation. Just as our original 13 states were part of the USA.

I raised the question about choosing between Ukraine & Belarus because that is the question that thousands of Ukrainian young men currently face.
I find it revealing that Ukraine has still not made every citizen > 18 subject to conscription & mandatory service as Israel does. That is what most nations would do if they were fighting for their survival & their citizens felt their nation, government & way of life were worth fighting & dying for.

After 1992, Ukraine faced the same choices & opportunities that the other Soviet Republics faced. They were more favorably located & equipped to become a western democracy than any other former Soviet Republic. They could have followed the lead of the 3 Baltic states, become free democracies & earned entry into the EU & NATO before Russia turned to Putin. Instead, they chose to follow Russia, Belarus & other former Soviet Republics into becoming corrupt oligarchies....despite 2 revolutions & regime changes fomented by the US & EU.

Zelensky calculated that he could commit to join the EU & NATO & that Russia would not respond, despite the invasion of 2014 in response to the Maidan revolution & vows then to join the EU & NATO. Zelensky, the US, the EU & NATO all underestimated Putin's determination to follow through on his threat, his ability to retain the support of his population, & his ability to mobilize his nation & put his economy on a war footing. We (the West) are still playing catch up & have yet to mobilize sufficiently to ensure that we can or will equip Ukraine to the extent necessary to prevent defeat, let alone win back all their lost territory.

We (the West) have not yet collectively committed that we will do whatever is necessary for Ukraine to prevail.
...& we won't unless & until we have a Commander-in-Chief who is willing & able to make that case to the US public & convince our allies that we will follow through until the end. Biden has not done that & Trump won't.

When are you considering the formation of the "original Russian nation" occurred? The most obvious answer is the current entity, so the inception date would be post-Soviet Union breakup. Any prior date would be opening up a significant debate about what a nation is. Is a nation a unified, by force of arms or cooperative agreement, collection of peoples and cultures?

By that definition, is the United States of America the same "nation" as originally conceived and formed at its inception? What was that date? D of C? Constitutional Convention? One could certainly argue that the Civil War was a de facto re-birth of a new nation. And the history of the territory of the entity of the USA is certainly less complicated, in terms of European and other settlement and its attendant cultural claims and influences, than that of Ukraine.

Yeah the " rebirth of the nation" was a path blazed by the carpet baggers. Hell of a way to heal the nation? Before Lincoln was assassinated he is believed to have said that the South needed to be treated like misguided brothers rather than a conquered enemy.A hundred and fifty plus years later some of you demand the South continue to be treated like a conquered enemy. I wonder if Biden is going to apologize to the South for Sherman's March to the Sea? Probably not, that could be the only time in Bidens life that he ever understood the concept of " war is hell"

[a fan]

The area that Russia currently controls contains the highest %'s of ethnic Russians & Russian speakers.
It also comprises most of Novorossiya, which Putin vowed to annex.
He could declare victory & mission accomplished.

It does not need to be another Munich if the West continues to arm & fund Ukraine
& if Ukrainians mobilize completely & men of fighting age return & they all agree to defend their country.
...but that will take time & a cease fire/frozen conflict could provide that time.

If I'm Z, I take Putin up on his offer.

Once Ukraine is dug in, and can't be invaded because of US arms and training? All options are at Z's table.

[cradleandshoot]

I can't find the video that was on the Newsbreak feed on my phone ( the one a certain forum thinks is Chinese propaganda) the video was taken by a Russian soldier. The video shows this soldier walking among the aftermath of a Russian unit that was caught in a devastating artillery bombardment. It was one of the most horrific things I have ever seen. There had to have been hundreds of bodies and parts of bodies scattered over a large territory. The devastation was mind blowing. There was not a tree left standing that was nothing more than splinters. I have never in my life saw a video as horrific as this. War really is hell this video shows just how true that is. IMO it doesn't matter what side your on in this war.

[runrussellrun]

I can't find the video that was on the Newsbreak feed on my phone ( the one a certain forum thinks is Chinese propaganda) the video was taken by a Russian soldier. The video shows this soldier walking among the aftermath of a Russian unit that was caught in a devastating artillery bombardment. It was one of the most horrific things I have ever seen. There had to have been hundreds of bodies and parts of bodies scattered over a large territory. The devastation was mind blowing. There was not a tree left standing that was nothing more than splinters. I have never in my life saw a video as horrific as this. War really is hell this video shows just how true that is. IMO it doesn't matter what side your on in this war.

How is the oil painting going?

[cradleandshoot]

I can't find the video that was on the Newsbreak feed on my phone ( the one a certain forum thinks is Chinese propaganda) the video was taken by a Russian soldier. The video shows this soldier walking among the aftermath of a Russian unit that was caught in a devastating artillery bombardment. It was one of the most horrific things I have ever seen. There had to have been hundreds of bodies and parts of bodies scattered over a large territory. The devastation was mind blowing. There was not a tree left standing that was nothing more than splinters. I have never in my life saw a video as horrific as this. War really is hell this video shows just how true that is. IMO it doesn't matter what side your on in this war.

How is the oil painting going?

The motivation is there. I watch Bob Ross and his replacement Nicholas Hankerson all of the time. I do hope to get back to it. I actually just picked up my guitar yesterday from the shop. New strings and a complete tuneup. Now I have to start playing again and build up those callouses on my fingers. To anybody who has ever played guitar, that is not a fun process. Me and Neil Young were good friends 30 years ago.
I'm already working my way around old man...

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/europe/r ... index.html