Johns Hopkins 2025

[jhu06]

Seems like everyone is in the SSDM market, Hopkins included. Great SSDMs are like gold in the current game.

This doesn't make sense to me. How hard can it be to find good athletes. In theory, it doesn't even need to be a lacrosse player.

because everyone want to score. Nobody grows up saying I want to be a bad ass SSDM. 10-20% go to D-Pole. The rest want to score goals. Lacrosse losses a lot of those high end athletes to sports like football.

No one grows up wanting to be a middle reliever either but the Jesse Oroscos and Jeff Nelsons of the world take those jobs because they're jobs. They successfully transitioned Jaronski (an lsm), mcdermott/raposo (originally offensive middies), we'll see where they go whether it's the names 51 or hf16 suggested who are already in house, kids they add from the outside or kids they move from other positions. I thought they never really replaced Mazzone on the long stick part of the wing this year so they have that issue as well.

On the very positive side, a lot of Petro teams at the end of his tenure were undone by injuries and kids who had off field issues. They seemed to do a really good job this season helping kids stay on the field health/academics/behavioral wise. You also did not see the size/speed/athleticism concerns that caused a lot of unhappy springs a few years ago.

[coda]

Seems like everyone is in the SSDM market, Hopkins included. Great SSDMs are like gold in the current game.

This doesn't make sense to me. How hard can it be to find good athletes. In theory, it doesn't even need to be a lacrosse player.

because everyone want to score. Nobody grows up saying I want to be a bad ass SSDM. 10-20% go to D-Pole. The rest want to score goals. Lacrosse losses a lot of those high end athletes to sports like football.

No one grows up wanting to be a middle reliever either but the Jesse Oroscos and Jeff Nelsons of the world take those jobs because they're jobs. They successfully transitioned Jaronski (an lsm), mcdermott/raposo (originally offensive middies), we'll see where they go whether it's the names 51 or hf16 suggested who are already in house, kids they add from the outside or kids they move from other positions. I thought they never really replaced Mazzone on the long stick part of the wing this year so they have that issue as well.

On the very positive side, a lot of Petro teams at the end of his tenure were undone by injuries and kids who had off field issues. They seemed to do a really good job this season helping kids stay on the field health/academics/behavioral wise. You also did not see the size/speed/athleticism concerns that caused a lot of unhappy springs a few years ago.

No one grows up wanting to be a middle reliever either but the Jesse Oroscos and Jeff Nelsons of the world take those jobs because they're jobs

I dont think that is a good comp. Pitchers pitch there whole career. SSDM mostly play defense. Middie mostly plays offense. The focus of your training is different. You are right a lot of the transition happens in college. That makes it tough to find guys that excel. Most of the players in college have been honing their skills for 4-8 years prior. A lot of SSDM are just beginning to work on those skills in college. They are behind the guys they are covering in that aspect.

[HopFan16]

Think you're starting to see more kids specialize in SSDM in high school (or at least play on teams where they're needed on both ends of the field) and subsequently come to college more prepared. I'd be surprised if a guy like Reece DiCicco is not ready to play early in his career. The Jays have a 4-star '25 recruit, Joey Levenberg, who also plays exclusively d-mid in high school. You'll still see offensive middies (Martin, Raposo) and poles (Jaronski) converted to SSDM in college, but teams are going to rely on those types of players less and less. The top HS programs all have kids either specializing in defensive midfield or playing both ways.

In any case, I don't think there's a coach in the country who can build up the position as well as Coach K. Like I said earlier, just give that guy somebody with decent size and speed and he'll make them a solid SSDM, regardless of what position they played in high school.

[coda]

Think you're starting to see more kids specialize in SSDM in high school (or at least play on teams where they're needed on both ends of the field) and subsequently come to college more prepared. I'd be surprised if a guy like Reece DiCicco is not ready to play early in his career. The Jays have a 4-star '25 recruit, Joey Levenberg, who also plays exclusively d-mid in high school. You'll still see offensive middies (Martin, Raposo) and poles (Jaronski) converted to SSDM in college, but teams are going to rely on those types of players less and less. The top HS programs all have kids either specializing in defensive midfield or playing both ways.

In any case, I don't think there's a coach in the country who can build up the position as well as Coach K. Like I said earlier, just give that guy somebody with decent size and speed and he'll make them a solid SSDM, regardless of what position they played in high school.

I do think the big prep teams have more of that going on. That is more the exception to the rule. Lawrenceville has mostly runs a 4 man midfield. They have 6-8 D1 middies, so they move people early. Seem to like to move the Canadians, since they have more experience playing 2 ways in box. I dont think the majority of HS programs have that kind of depth to do that.

[jhu06]

Think you're starting to see more kids specialize in SSDM in high school (or at least play on teams where they're needed on both ends of the field) and subsequently come to college more prepared. I'd be surprised if a guy like Reece DiCicco is not ready to play early in his career. The Jays have a 4-star '25 recruit, Joey Levenberg, who also plays exclusively d-mid in high school. You'll still see offensive middies (Martin, Raposo) and poles (Jaronski) converted to SSDM in college, but teams are going to rely on those types of players less and less. The top HS programs all have kids either specializing in defensive midfield or playing both ways.

In any case, I don't think there's a coach in the country who can build up the position as well as Coach K. Like I said earlier, just give that guy somebody with decent size and speed and he'll make them a solid SSDM, regardless of what position they played in high school.

I do think the big prep teams have more of that going on. That is more the exception to the rule. Lawrenceville has mostly runs a 4 man midfield. They have 6-8 D1 middies, so they move people early. Seem to like to move the Canadians, since they have more experience playing 2 ways in box. I dont think the majority of HS programs have that kind of depth to do that.

I don't follow the recruiting nuts and bolts. The 25 roster will have no kids who signed on before their jr year of hs correct? No more hs freshmen or sophomore signers and the srs are the last petro guys?

[coda]

Think you're starting to see more kids specialize in SSDM in high school (or at least play on teams where they're needed on both ends of the field) and subsequently come to college more prepared. I'd be surprised if a guy like Reece DiCicco is not ready to play early in his career. The Jays have a 4-star '25 recruit, Joey Levenberg, who also plays exclusively d-mid in high school. You'll still see offensive middies (Martin, Raposo) and poles (Jaronski) converted to SSDM in college, but teams are going to rely on those types of players less and less. The top HS programs all have kids either specializing in defensive midfield or playing both ways.

In any case, I don't think there's a coach in the country who can build up the position as well as Coach K. Like I said earlier, just give that guy somebody with decent size and speed and he'll make them a solid SSDM, regardless of what position they played in high school.

I do think the big prep teams have more of that going on. That is more the exception to the rule. Lawrenceville has mostly runs a 4 man midfield. They have 6-8 D1 middies, so they move people early. Seem to like to move the Canadians, since they have more experience playing 2 ways in box. I dont think the majority of HS programs have that kind of depth to do that.

I don't follow the recruiting nuts and bolts. The 25 roster will have no kids who signed on before their jr year of hs correct? No more hs freshmen or sophomore signers and the srs are the last petro guys?

Yes. Contact is not permitted between player and coaches until Sept 1 of a players Junior year. Academies are the exception to the rule, they can talk couple months earlier.

[10stone5]

Plus,

there's the old - kid re-classified to a later starting class - loophole.

[norcalhop]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward

[coda]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward

I wonder if it will be more like football. Generally, stars are found from the lower tier programs. You could almost argue mid-majors are to college football programs like triple AAA is to MLB. I wonder if you see the same in lacrosse

[coda]

Doc, I like you, but I saw this and thought of you (the one from Ice Age)

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7P4hS-hlmK ... N1ZzlyN3d6

[norcalhop]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward

I wonder if it will be more like football. Generally, stars are found from the lower tier programs. You could almost argue mid-majors are to college football programs like triple AAA is to MLB. I wonder if you see the same in lacrosse

I see this happening already. But what will be more interesting is if there is movement amongst the top teams (Duke -> Hopkins for instance).

[wgdsr]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward.

they've made things interesting for decades. what'll be a bit more up in the air and worth watching is how coaches and programs adjust without having gobs of grad students available.

[norcalhop]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward.

they've made things interesting for decades. what'll be a bit more up in the air and worth watching is how coaches and programs adjust without having gobs of grad students available.

we're just starting to see star undergraduate players transfer in higher volumes in the other DI sports vs prior years due in particular to NIL and playing time changes. lacrosse will follow accordingly.

[wgdsr]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward.

they've made things interesting for decades. what'll be a bit more up in the air and worth watching is how coaches and programs adjust without having gobs of grad students available.

we're just starting to see star undergraduate players transfer in higher volumes in the other DI sports vs prior years due in particular to NIL and playing time changes. lacrosse will follow accordingly.

ok, but which sports?

[norcalhop]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward.

they've made things interesting for decades. what'll be a bit more up in the air and worth watching is how coaches and programs adjust without having gobs of grad students available.

we're just starting to see star undergraduate players transfer in higher volumes in the other DI sports vs prior years due in particular to NIL and playing time changes. lacrosse will follow accordingly.

ok, but which sports?

Baseball, Basketball, Football for now. I'm sure there are other sports I'm not following as closely.

[wgdsr]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward.

they've made things interesting for decades. what'll be a bit more up in the air and worth watching is how coaches and programs adjust without having gobs of grad students available.

we're just starting to see star undergraduate players transfer in higher volumes in the other DI sports vs prior years due in particular to NIL and playing time changes. lacrosse will follow accordingly.

ok, but which sports?

Baseball, Basketball, Football for now. I'm sure there are other sports I'm not following as closely.

ok, but those sports are unique (along with women's hoops and ice hockey) in that they carried a year in residence limitation. so if you wanted to transfer, you had to sit a year. then in jan 2020 the doj told the nc$$ in no uncertain terms if they liked their anti-trust protections, then the sit out rule (among other things) was to go bye bye. the portal was created at the same time, but it was the no sit out for those sports that's responsible for the increase you saw, because without that nil, portals, etc. wouldn't have those sports in the transfer tsunami.

lacrosse has always been no sit out. the exception was being able to transfer intra-conference. conferences, not coaches necessarily, made that hard to impossible. that's now gone, but not really material.

the portal hasn't changed any of those things for lacrosse. but it's a cool name, makes us feel like we're watching star trek.

if nil comes into play as it has in the revenue sports, then that movement will be because of... nil.

[norcalhop]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward.

they've made things interesting for decades. what'll be a bit more up in the air and worth watching is how coaches and programs adjust without having gobs of grad students available.

we're just starting to see star undergraduate players transfer in higher volumes in the other DI sports vs prior years due in particular to NIL and playing time changes. lacrosse will follow accordingly.

ok, but which sports?

Baseball, Basketball, Football for now. I'm sure there are other sports I'm not following as closely.

ok, but those sports are unique (along with women's hoops and ice hockey) in that they carried a year in residence limitation. so if you wanted to transfer, you had to sit a year. then in jan 2020 the doj told the nc$$ in no uncertain terms if they liked their anti-trust protections, then the sit out rule (among other things) was to go bye bye. the portal was created at the same time, but it was the no sit out for those sports that's responsible for the increase you saw, because without that nil, portals, etc. wouldn't have those sports in the transfer tsunami.

lacrosse has always been no sit out. the exception was being able to transfer intra-conference. conferences, not coaches necessarily, made that hard to impossible. that's now gone, but not really material.

the portal hasn't changed any of those things for lacrosse. but it's a cool name, makes us feel like we're watching star trek.

if nil comes into play as it has in the revenue sports, then that movement will be because of... nil.

It's a trickle at first followed by a gradual change in behavior. Compare number of players now in transfer portal for lacrosse vs 3 years ago even taking out the graduate students for decent division 1 programs (not just the smaller schools like Canisius). NIL is part of that but not the end all be all. It takes acceptance and time. When the current cohort of graduate transfers go, coaches will double down on recruiting undergrad transfers even more. The floodgates will open when you see actual star players in higher volumes begin transferring at the undergraduate level. It's a matter of if not when.

[norcalhop]

The one bright side is I don't care for any of the remaining games. Yes, I'll root for Maryland and Denver, but I won't go out of my way to watch the game now and will fully enjoy memorial day with the family.

[jhu06]

The one bright side is I don't care for any of the remaining games. Yes, I'll root for Maryland and Denver, but I won't go out of my way to watch the game now and will fully enjoy memorial day with the family.

Tomorrow could be an interesting day for the university.

Stevens will probably roll out 2025 lookaheads next week where we'll see in numerical terms what the Jays and rivals are losing to graduation and what the staff has to replace. It has to be a good time to be a veteran stud college lacrosse player with eligibility remaining and NIL out there because I'm guessing a lot of teams have big needs and lots of $ freed up with graduation.

There's also some ncaa litigation out there which the bigger conferences are settling. House or something. I'm not sure how much impact it has on Hopkins because the school is mostly d3 but our rivals in the big ten and acc especially should be on the hook for a nice piece of $.

[wgdsr]

The undergraduate transfer portal will certainly make things very interesting going forward.

they've made things interesting for decades. what'll be a bit more up in the air and worth watching is how coaches and programs adjust without having gobs of grad students available.

we're just starting to see star undergraduate players transfer in higher volumes in the other DI sports vs prior years due in particular to NIL and playing time changes. lacrosse will follow accordingly.

ok, but which sports?

Baseball, Basketball, Football for now. I'm sure there are other sports I'm not following as closely.

ok, but those sports are unique (along with women's hoops and ice hockey) in that they carried a year in residence limitation. so if you wanted to transfer, you had to sit a year. then in jan 2020 the doj told the nc$$ in no uncertain terms if they liked their anti-trust protections, then the sit out rule (among other things) was to go bye bye. the portal was created at the same time, but it was the no sit out for those sports that's responsible for the increase you saw, because without that nil, portals, etc. wouldn't have those sports in the transfer tsunami.

lacrosse has always been no sit out. the exception was being able to transfer intra-conference. conferences, not coaches necessarily, made that hard to impossible. that's now gone, but not really material.

the portal hasn't changed any of those things for lacrosse. but it's a cool name, makes us feel like we're watching star trek.

if nil comes into play as it has in the revenue sports, then that movement will be because of... nil.

It's a trickle at first followed by a gradual change in behavior. Compare number of players now in transfer portal for lacrosse vs 3 years ago even taking out the graduate students for decent division 1 programs (not just the smaller schools like Canisius). NIL is part of that but not the end all be all. It takes acceptance and time. When the current cohort of graduate transfers go, coaches will double down on recruiting undergrad transfers even more. The floodgates will open when you see actual star players in higher volumes begin transferring at the undergraduate level. It's a matter of if not when.

sure, speculation and that's one of the things the board is for. maybe somebody will make a comparison to how it's going on the trend. i don't see any big change from the past, but am speculating. nil according to some people has gotten substantial in a few places, i'm blind to that but also skeptical.

most athletes in football and hoops don't find a suitable home for them, much less an upgrade or lateral move. in lacrosse, i suspect most athletes will find a spot to continue their education, and hopefully one where their lacrosse and/or other experiences are better suited for them.