QF #2 Duke vs #7 Maryland Saturday 2:30

[Wheels]

I wasn't surprised by this. Had the Terps winning 15-12 in a preview.

It's not surprising that Jesse sent Ajax to Zawada. The last 2 years, Makar always took the bull dodger so Ajax could erase the opponents' distributor. Make the other team 1 dimensional. Disrupting McAdorey was also crucial, and he was a total non-factor.

Naso is probably still a little banged up, but it wasn't surprising to see Wierman dominate him. Getting 2 goals out of him really changed the game.

Kudos to Ryan Siracusa. He's been Maryland's most consistent offensive player all season. He's a great story and a great kid. It's wonderful to see someone like that work hard, figure things out, and really blossom.

Duke had 4 total goal scorers. If not for Maryland literally throwing the ball away like a rec team at times, who knows what the outcome would have been.

Maryland's defense put on a clinic in the 2nd half. With Wierman dominating, they just choked out Duke's offense. Not surprising at all.

O'Neill is a generational talent, and he'll do great in the pros when he's surrounded by other all-stars. He did well in the World Games because teams had to short him. Seems like a great kid. Has handled the spotlight really well, but he's not the alpha Duke needed (last year and this year). Just doesn't want to take over games when everyone knows he can.

Never bet against John Tillman in a QF. He's now 10-1. That's absurd. They might not win next Saturday, and you'd have to be the biggest homer ever to think they will win the whole thing. But the team has confidence. They've played both UVA and JHU. The stage won't scare them.

[keno in reno]

You cannot say Dino is anywhere close to the level of Breshi with wasted talent. This team was in the championship game last year.

But were they really?

[azim21]

Can we talk about how wild it will be if UMD and UVA face off in the final four? Both teams were controversial picks just to make the tourney, and one will be in the championship in that scenario

Apparently you don’t recall when Notre Dame got in over Georgetown and went to the finals despite being very mediocre in the reg season. That was more controversial than them being not selected in 22. GT should’ve got that last At large

They weren't that controversial considering they were both seeded

Okay maybe it was only controversial in Instagram comment sections but I swear I didn’t imagine people saying they shouldn’t get in clearly the Terps have proven all those naysayers wrong

[masondixonlax]

Can we talk about how wild it will be if UMD and UVA face off in the final four? Both teams were controversial picks just to make the tourney, and one will be in the championship in that scenario

Apparently you don’t recall when Notre Dame got in over Georgetown and went to the finals despite being very mediocre in the reg season. That was more controversial than them being not selected in 22. GT should’ve got that last At large

They weren't that controversial considering they were both seeded

Okay maybe it was only controversial in Instagram comment sections but I swear I didn’t imagine people saying they shouldn’t get in clearly the Terps have proven all those naysayers wrong

It was controversial in the ivy league forum haha

[azim21]

Can we talk about how wild it will be if UMD and UVA face off in the final four? Both teams were controversial picks just to make the tourney, and one will be in the championship in that scenario

Apparently you don’t recall when Notre Dame got in over Georgetown and went to the finals despite being very mediocre in the reg season. That was more controversial than them being not selected in 22. GT should’ve got that last At large

They weren't that controversial considering they were both seeded

Okay maybe it was only controversial in Instagram comment sections but I swear I didn’t imagine people saying they shouldn’t get in clearly the Terps have proven all those naysayers wrong

It was controversial in the ivy league forum haha

Haha true! Well Princeton didn’t do them any favors in that regard

[Chousnake]

O’Neill’s legacy on the line.

DocBarrister

He had 3-4 goals… Real problem is the flow of the offense. Just a dodge and watch offense for most the game. Aggressive dodge that draws a slide and then a throw back to a non-threatening player.. This game was face-off and coaching mismatch

No championship.

Look, I like Charles Barkley, but he ain’t a champion.

O’Neill is a great player, but the lack of a championship matters.

I think his Tewaaraton chances are now nil.

Tillman … best lax coach of his generation.

DocBarrister

I think sports fans and commentators have gotten so over the top with judging team sports athletes based on championships in recent years. I don't think O'Neill is the best player in the sport, but it's not because of the lack of titles. In a team sport, it takes a team (I know this is a Captain Obvious statement). Duke didn't lose today because of O'Neill. They lost because Maryland dominated face offs and had a huge advantage in goal. I think Jamison went a quarter and a half in the second half without a save. When a team is not getting possessions or stops, it makes it pretty hard for an offensive player to take over a game.

I heard the same nonsense about Caitlin Clarke in March. And it works the other way too. Tom Brady is the best QB ever because "he" won 7 Super Bowls? Really? That's the measuring stick? Tom Brady is the LOAT - luckiest player of all time. He had the good fortune to play for the best defensive mind in NFL history, had games won by some unbelievably clutch FG kicker, had some bonehead coaching blunders by opposing teams. In other words, in a team sport, a lot of things need to go your way to win a championship and, more often than not, individual players benefit from a whole series of things that lead to the title.

So the lack of a title is not an indictment of O'Neill any more than another championship would anoint Pat Kavanaugh as an all time great. Kavanaugh has been surrounded by talent and that enabled ND to win with him hobbled with an injury last year and without him needing to shoulder the load this season. Teams win, not individual players. It takes 20 guys to win, not one. Put O'Neill on ND and Kavanaugh on Duke and the outcomes of both games today are the same.

[keno in reno]

Sowers, O'Neill, Nakei Montgomery, Giles-Harris, Brower, Dyson Williams, Naso, Danenza, McAdorey, Carpenter, Zawada, Leadmon etc. That's a lot of top level college talent the last 4 years

[norcalhop]

You cannot say Dino is anywhere close to the level of Breshi with wasted talent. This team was in the championship game last year.

But were they really?

They played it. Whether they had a shot is a different matter.

[coda]

I wasn't surprised by this. Had the Terps winning 15-12 in a preview.

It's not surprising that Jesse sent Ajax to Zawada. The last 2 years, Makar always took the bull dodger so Ajax could erase the opponents' distributor. Make the other team 1 dimensional. Disrupting McAdorey was also crucial, and he was a total non-factor.

Naso is probably still a little banged up, but it wasn't surprising to see Wierman dominate him. Getting 2 goals out of him really changed the game.

Kudos to Ryan Siracusa. He's been Maryland's most consistent offensive player all season. He's a great story and a great kid. It's wonderful to see someone like that work hard, figure things out, and really blossom.

Duke had 4 total goal scorers. If not for Maryland literally throwing the ball away like a rec team at times, who knows what the outcome would have been.

Maryland's defense put on a clinic in the 2nd half. With Wierman dominating, they just choked out Duke's offense. Not surprising at all.

O'Neill is a generational talent, and he'll do great in the pros when he's surrounded by other all-stars. He did well in the World Games because teams had to short him. Seems like a great kid. Has handled the spotlight really well, but he's not the alpha Duke needed (last year and this year). Just doesn't want to take over games when everyone knows he can.

Never bet against John Tillman in a QF. He's now 10-1. That's absurd. They might not win next Saturday, and you'd have to be the biggest homer ever to think they will win the whole thing. But the team has confidence. They've played both UVA and JHU. The stage won't scare them.

ONeill is a scorer. That is what he does. He has never been a guy that can QB an offense. Crazy talented, but still hasn’t hit his potential. That is part of Duke’s issue. They are all scorers. (Zawaada being the exception)

[jrn19]

It’s time for Danowski to go. That offense Duke had was pitiful. It’s like only 2 people had the green light to ever truly go.

You had a dodger and a measley throwback, rise, wash and repeat as their o

Probably a hard decision to make but surprised they stuck with Naso as long as they did with Weinerman dominating and Girard performing well recently.

Ultimately, you are know for May and Duke struck out big time with O’Neill.

If I was coach of this team, Macadorey would have been the right wing at attack and Dyson Williams would be playing crease only coming out of the box.

Duke offense went full club lacrosse. Outside of dodge past the guy in front of you, it was hard to see a plan. ONeill is ONeill, he came in a great scorer and left a great scorer. Hasn’t added much to his game. MacAdorey is the same guy we saw as a freshmen. That might be the biggest knock on the Duke staff

I agree. I think the main issue was Oniell and Dyson Williams provide the same trait, they are scorers and lefty’s. Both do not quarterback a team at all. That’s no knock on them, they are incredible players obviously but I always found that to be an awkward overlap.

I would have made Dyson a designated crease guy because of this. Him on the LW never made sense with Brennan. It shows vs the good teams.

Macadorey is a good player but they have him playing all over the place. Him vs Cuse in ACCt was his best game and at attack.

Regardless of scheme, Duke, like UNC, lack multiple inside box guys. Dyson obviously can finish but besides that it’s an open O that rely on middies to out run their man, again, hard vs top teams.

Never really had the second QB or ball movement inside to make this o work. O Neil could have spent more time inside as well to throw them off. They all camped out in their natural spot, which they all excelled at, but never was able to throw in the wrinkles vs the good teams

I put this in Maryland thread, but Zawaada killed Maryland in both games last year. He had 13 pts in 2 games in a different system. Michigan had him dodge from everywhere

This is the key with everything regarding Duke and that offense. It’s all so static. Everyone is stationary. They have their roles and play them and nothing changes. No interchange of positions, no picks or two man games. Dodge and win your matchup, if you do, hit the open man. When O’Neill is on it, it works perfectly. If not…it’s just flat.

I’ll admit my fault on Terps putting someone else on O’Neill and leaving Zaps to guard Zawada. Zawada dodged from one spot and he was out of the game completely. That’s not how Zawada killed the Terps.

They’re one of the easiest teams to scout in every facet. Same offense every week, no ride, no transition. It’s all about the talent.

Sometimes, great coaching beats great talent

[jrn19]

I wasn't surprised by this. Had the Terps winning 15-12 in a preview.

It's not surprising that Jesse sent Ajax to Zawada. The last 2 years, Makar always took the bull dodger so Ajax could erase the opponents' distributor. Make the other team 1 dimensional. Disrupting McAdorey was also crucial, and he was a total non-factor.

Naso is probably still a little banged up, but it wasn't surprising to see Wierman dominate him. Getting 2 goals out of him really changed the game.

Kudos to Ryan Siracusa. He's been Maryland's most consistent offensive player all season. He's a great story and a great kid. It's wonderful to see someone like that work hard, figure things out, and really blossom.

Duke had 4 total goal scorers. If not for Maryland literally throwing the ball away like a rec team at times, who knows what the outcome would have been.

Maryland's defense put on a clinic in the 2nd half. With Wierman dominating, they just choked out Duke's offense. Not surprising at all.

O'Neill is a generational talent, and he'll do great in the pros when he's surrounded by other all-stars. He did well in the World Games because teams had to short him. Seems like a great kid. Has handled the spotlight really well, but he's not the alpha Duke needed (last year and this year). Just doesn't want to take over games when everyone knows he can.

Never bet against John Tillman in a QF. He's now 10-1. That's absurd. They might not win next Saturday, and you'd have to be the biggest homer ever to think they will win the whole thing. But the team has confidence. They've played both UVA and JHU. The stage won't scare them.

ONeill is a scorer. That is what he does. He has never been a guy that can QB an offense. Crazy talented, but still hasn’t hit his potential. That is part of Duke’s issue. They are all scorers. (Zawaada being the exception)

They had Michael Sowers, a generational X attackmen, and the offense looked exactly the same. It's not a personnel thing. The sets are the same every time, they don't add any wrinkles, they don't adjust based on what teams do to them. It's all the same, all the time and if you solve it once....you've solved it for the game

[AreaLax]

Md’s press conference
https://youtu.be/-xzRrqkfg3E?si=Qa1K6O1vRbcpSYXg

[Farfromgeneva]

It’s time for Danowski to go. That offense Duke had was pitiful. It’s like only 2 people had the green light to ever truly go.

You had a dodger and a measley throwback, rise, wash and repeat as their o

Probably a hard decision to make but surprised they stuck with Naso as long as they did with Weinerman dominating and Girard performing well recently.

Ultimately, you are know for May and Duke struck out big time with O’Neill.

If I was coach of this team, Macadorey would have been the right wing at attack and Dyson Williams would be playing crease only coming out of the box.

Duke offense went full club lacrosse. Outside of dodge past the guy in front of you, it was hard to see a plan. ONeill is ONeill, he came in a great scorer and left a great scorer. Hasn’t added much to his game. MacAdorey is the same guy we saw as a freshmen. That might be the biggest knock on the Duke staff

I agree. I think the main issue was Oniell and Dyson Williams provide the same trait, they are scorers and lefty’s. Both do not quarterback a team at all. That’s no knock on them, they are incredible players obviously but I always found that to be an awkward overlap.

I would have made Dyson a designated crease guy because of this. Him on the LW never made sense with Brennan. It shows vs the good teams.

Macadorey is a good player but they have him playing all over the place. Him vs Cuse in ACCt was his best game and at attack.

Regardless of scheme, Duke, like UNC, lack multiple inside box guys. Dyson obviously can finish but besides that it’s an open O that rely on middies to out run their man, again, hard vs top teams.

Never really had the second QB or ball movement inside to make this o work. O Neil could have spent more time inside as well to throw them off. They all camped out in their natural spot, which they all excelled at, but never was able to throw in the wrinkles vs the good teams

I put this in Maryland thread, but Zawaada killed Maryland in both games last year. He had 13 pts in 2 games in a different system. Michigan had him dodge from everywhere

This is the key with everything regarding Duke and that offense. It’s all so static. Everyone is stationary. They have their roles and play them and nothing changes. No interchange of positions, no picks or two man games. Dodge and win your matchup, if you do, hit the open man. When O’Neill is on it, it works perfectly. If not…it’s just flat.

I’ll admit my fault on Terps putting someone else on O’Neill and leaving Zaps to guard Zawada. Zawada dodged from one spot and he was out of the game completely. That’s not how Zawada killed the Terps.

They’re one of the easiest teams to scout in every facet. Same offense every week, no ride, no transition. It’s all about the talent.

Sometimes, great coaching beats great talent

Tillman may be a better coach than Dano but let’s not forget the FO differential. Wiseman kept them in the game with his offense in fact in the first half. So it still feels like a shaky Duke loss for me we’re talking about losing to an elite coach who has elite 5th yr FOGO and goalie. Come on. That’s how Del went to the FF and Beynr beat Cuse in the playoffs and is probably the best odds of a user of any strategy or composition of a smaller/underdog team. Not to take anything away from Maltz et al but a sober view is that an excellent experienced coach beat another good coach with far superior play at FO and goal. If you go to the freshman of the year thread you’ll get prose on how great Jameison is and he saved like 35%.

[keno in reno]

Not to take anything away from Maltz et al but a sober view

Sober, really?

[DocBarrister]

O’Neill’s legacy on the line.

DocBarrister

He had 3-4 goals… Real problem is the flow of the offense. Just a dodge and watch offense for most the game. Aggressive dodge that draws a slide and then a throw back to a non-threatening player.. This game was face-off and coaching mismatch

No championship.

Look, I like Charles Barkley, but he ain’t a champion.

O’Neill is a great player, but the lack of a championship matters.

I think his Tewaaraton chances are now nil.

Tillman … best lax coach of his generation.

DocBarrister

I think sports fans and commentators have gotten so over the top with judging team sports athletes based on championships in recent years. I don't think O'Neill is the best player in the sport, but it's not because of the lack of titles. In a team sport, it takes a team (I know this is a Captain Obvious statement). Duke didn't lose today because of O'Neill. They lost because Maryland dominated face offs and had a huge advantage in goal. I think Jamison went a quarter and a half in the second half without a save. When a team is not getting possessions or stops, it makes it pretty hard for an offensive player to take over a game.

I heard the same nonsense about Caitlin Clarke in March. And it works the other way too. Tom Brady is the best QB ever because "he" won 7 Super Bowls? Really? That's the measuring stick? Tom Brady is the LOAT - luckiest player of all time. He had the good fortune to play for the best defensive mind in NFL history, had games won by some unbelievably clutch FG kicker, had some bonehead coaching blunders by opposing teams. In other words, in a team sport, a lot of things need to go your way to win a championship and, more often than not, individual players benefit from a whole series of things that lead to the title.

So the lack of a title is not an indictment of O'Neill any more than another championship would anoint Pat Kavanaugh as an all time great. Kavanaugh has been surrounded by talent and that enabled ND to win with him hobbled with an injury last year and without him needing to shoulder the load this season. Teams win, not individual players. It takes 20 guys to win, not one. Put O'Neill on ND and Kavanaugh on Duke and the outcomes of both games today are the same.

Pat Kavanaugh changes the team he plays for, far more than O’Neill.

O’Neill was a great college player, and I have no doubt he will be a great player in the PLL.

But a lack of championships does matter in terms of long term perception.

Take, for example, Terry Riordan. He’s got all the numbers … one of the top Division I goal scorers of all time. Turnbull and Enners awards. Four time AA, including first team AA twice.

But Riordan never quite gets the esteem and adulation that his numbers and awards merit … I think mainly because he never won a national championship.

That’s just the way it is.

That is O’Neill’s fate.

And by the way, Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time, and it’s not even close.

DocBarrister

[AreaLax]

Duke’s press conference
https://youtu.be/nQbg_lakHfM?si=o_Bulav43Eu7cMmU

[Farfromgeneva]

Not to take anything away from Maltz et al but a sober view

Sober, really?

Your comment suggest I’m in left field. Ok. Man I don’t care if you feed your kids stolen cord blood from the Tillman family in your free time but if you can’t acknowledge what a major advantage in FO and Goal does for a team I can’t help you.

But sure Tillman is the new chuck Norris..hear he’s curing cancer while taking out a Korean crime syndicate all while using magic unknown to everyone else in the world to generate unthinkable upsets that shake our foundations of understanding of existence.

[jrn19]

It’s time for Danowski to go. That offense Duke had was pitiful. It’s like only 2 people had the green light to ever truly go.

You had a dodger and a measley throwback, rise, wash and repeat as their o

Probably a hard decision to make but surprised they stuck with Naso as long as they did with Weinerman dominating and Girard performing well recently.

Ultimately, you are know for May and Duke struck out big time with O’Neill.

If I was coach of this team, Macadorey would have been the right wing at attack and Dyson Williams would be playing crease only coming out of the box.

Duke offense went full club lacrosse. Outside of dodge past the guy in front of you, it was hard to see a plan. ONeill is ONeill, he came in a great scorer and left a great scorer. Hasn’t added much to his game. MacAdorey is the same guy we saw as a freshmen. That might be the biggest knock on the Duke staff

I agree. I think the main issue was Oniell and Dyson Williams provide the same trait, they are scorers and lefty’s. Both do not quarterback a team at all. That’s no knock on them, they are incredible players obviously but I always found that to be an awkward overlap.

I would have made Dyson a designated crease guy because of this. Him on the LW never made sense with Brennan. It shows vs the good teams.

Macadorey is a good player but they have him playing all over the place. Him vs Cuse in ACCt was his best game and at attack.

Regardless of scheme, Duke, like UNC, lack multiple inside box guys. Dyson obviously can finish but besides that it’s an open O that rely on middies to out run their man, again, hard vs top teams.

Never really had the second QB or ball movement inside to make this o work. O Neil could have spent more time inside as well to throw them off. They all camped out in their natural spot, which they all excelled at, but never was able to throw in the wrinkles vs the good teams

I put this in Maryland thread, but Zawaada killed Maryland in both games last year. He had 13 pts in 2 games in a different system. Michigan had him dodge from everywhere

This is the key with everything regarding Duke and that offense. It’s all so static. Everyone is stationary. They have their roles and play them and nothing changes. No interchange of positions, no picks or two man games. Dodge and win your matchup, if you do, hit the open man. When O’Neill is on it, it works perfectly. If not…it’s just flat.

I’ll admit my fault on Terps putting someone else on O’Neill and leaving Zaps to guard Zawada. Zawada dodged from one spot and he was out of the game completely. That’s not how Zawada killed the Terps.

They’re one of the easiest teams to scout in every facet. Same offense every week, no ride, no transition. It’s all about the talent.

Sometimes, great coaching beats great talent

Tillman may be a better coach than Dano but let’s not forget the FO differential. Wiseman kept them in the game with his offense in fact in the first half. So it still feels like a shaky Duke loss for me we’re talking about losing to an elite coach who has elite 5th yr FOGO and goalie. Come on. That’s how Del went to the FF and Beynr beat Cuse in the playoffs and is probably the best odds of a user of any strategy or composition of a smaller/underdog team. Not to take anything away from Maltz et al but a sober view is that an excellent experienced coach beat another good coach with far superior play at FO and goal. If you go to the freshman of the year thread you’ll get prose on how great Jameison is and he saved like 35%.

It's almost like this is a four year problem and not one game. They had the most talented roster in the sport for four years and missed the tournament once and lost today in a Quarterfinal that they were a 3-4 goal favorite in.

It's almost like the offense had problems with LONG scoring droughts even in games where they WON a bunch of faceoffs (first Syracuse game, BU, etc.)

It's almost like the complete lack of adjustments to O'Neill being played out of the game and the offense devolving into 1v1 iso ball has been a chronic issue brought up numerous times.

These are all things that have happened to this team over and over and over again.

[Farfromgeneva]

It’s time for Danowski to go. That offense Duke had was pitiful. It’s like only 2 people had the green light to ever truly go.

You had a dodger and a measley throwback, rise, wash and repeat as their o

Probably a hard decision to make but surprised they stuck with Naso as long as they did with Weinerman dominating and Girard performing well recently.

Ultimately, you are know for May and Duke struck out big time with O’Neill.

If I was coach of this team, Macadorey would have been the right wing at attack and Dyson Williams would be playing crease only coming out of the box.

Duke offense went full club lacrosse. Outside of dodge past the guy in front of you, it was hard to see a plan. ONeill is ONeill, he came in a great scorer and left a great scorer. Hasn’t added much to his game. MacAdorey is the same guy we saw as a freshmen. That might be the biggest knock on the Duke staff

I agree. I think the main issue was Oniell and Dyson Williams provide the same trait, they are scorers and lefty’s. Both do not quarterback a team at all. That’s no knock on them, they are incredible players obviously but I always found that to be an awkward overlap.

I would have made Dyson a designated crease guy because of this. Him on the LW never made sense with Brennan. It shows vs the good teams.

Macadorey is a good player but they have him playing all over the place. Him vs Cuse in ACCt was his best game and at attack.

Regardless of scheme, Duke, like UNC, lack multiple inside box guys. Dyson obviously can finish but besides that it’s an open O that rely on middies to out run their man, again, hard vs top teams.

Never really had the second QB or ball movement inside to make this o work. O Neil could have spent more time inside as well to throw them off. They all camped out in their natural spot, which they all excelled at, but never was able to throw in the wrinkles vs the good teams

I put this in Maryland thread, but Zawaada killed Maryland in both games last year. He had 13 pts in 2 games in a different system. Michigan had him dodge from everywhere

This is the key with everything regarding Duke and that offense. It’s all so static. Everyone is stationary. They have their roles and play them and nothing changes. No interchange of positions, no picks or two man games. Dodge and win your matchup, if you do, hit the open man. When O’Neill is on it, it works perfectly. If not…it’s just flat.

I’ll admit my fault on Terps putting someone else on O’Neill and leaving Zaps to guard Zawada. Zawada dodged from one spot and he was out of the game completely. That’s not how Zawada killed the Terps.

They’re one of the easiest teams to scout in every facet. Same offense every week, no ride, no transition. It’s all about the talent.

Sometimes, great coaching beats great talent

Tillman may be a better coach than Dano but let’s not forget the FO differential. Wiseman kept them in the game with his offense in fact in the first half. So it still feels like a shaky Duke loss for me we’re talking about losing to an elite coach who has elite 5th yr FOGO and goalie. Come on. That’s how Del went to the FF and Beynr beat Cuse in the playoffs and is probably the best odds of a user of any strategy or composition of a smaller/underdog team. Not to take anything away from Maltz et al but a sober view is that an excellent experienced coach beat another good coach with far superior play at FO and goal. If you go to the freshman of the year thread you’ll get prose on how great Jameison is and he saved like 35%.

It's almost like this is a four year problem and not one game. They had the most talented roster in the sport for four years and missed the tournament once and lost today in a Quarterfinal that they were a 3-4 goal favorite in.

It's almost like the offense had problems with LONG scoring droughts even in games where they WON a bunch of faceoffs (first Syracuse game, BU, etc.)

It's almost like the complete lack of adjustments to O'Neill being played out of the game and the offense devolving into 1v1 iso ball has been a chronic issue brought up numerous times.

These are all things that have happened to this team over and over and over again.

It’s almost like the sort Tillman lost in rd 1 in an Isley last rest while
Terrible Duke was in the finals

I absolutely think Danos offense is stale and the best thing they could do is take Matt “Lenny” Danowski out back and put down. Scotty ruined Urick’s legacy as well. And yet they have the talent that they still we in the finals last year and were sitting here wondering what a catastrophe a quarterfinals loss is. Wait until Tillman has a similar stretch of 1st -2nd rd exits it’s just math that it’ll happen eventually.

Duke wasn’t s**t until basically the 2000s and the biggest failure of all was
The 2005 and 2007 Playoff performances )as great as Harrison and the hop team
Was in 05) under Pressler/. Nobody talked about bouncing him after 05. Point being is Dano side better or worse effectively set the standard there. That’s a powerful chip with people at times. Point being I wouldn’t be surprised with their stale and predictable offense if they win 8/10 vs this MD team anyways notwithstanding the FO and goalie advantage/.

Is Dani slipping? Sure seems like it. Is he in the “hot seat” meaning at real risk of being fired by Duke. Get the fuuuuuudge out of here.

Set all that aside and tell explicitly what you think. It sounds like you don’t think the fo and goalie situation played a material role or is Mendon as an advantage/. Is this what you think and belie? Only the near derivative of gos Tillman could ever pull this off. I mean turd you guys are talking out of both sides of your mouth suggesting his wizardry is the only reason the win then suggesting a mentally underdeveloped yorkie is a better coach than dano.

Why can’t people just be cool with Tillman good, Better than dano but it’s likely a major reason for the less “talented” (underdog almost by definition) team pulled the upset was more the FO and goalie than the greatest out coaching ever. Nothing is being taken away from Tillman with this position.

It’s almost like I will definitely see a post within the next year from you skewing towards the players over coaching that’s wildly incongruous with the position you so stridently hold today.

The problem is this embedded assumption that any gimp could walk in and do way better but let’s spell that out. Wya better is like 5-6 titles in 1”
10-12yrs. And 8-9/12 FFs. So it’s easy to get anyone to run that

[keno in reno]

O’Neill’s legacy on the line.

DocBarrister

He had 3-4 goals… Real problem is the flow of the offense. Just a dodge and watch offense for most the game. Aggressive dodge that draws a slide and then a throw back to a non-threatening player.. This game was face-off and coaching mismatch

No championship.

Look, I like Charles Barkley, but he ain’t a champion.

O’Neill is a great player, but the lack of a championship matters.

I think his Tewaaraton chances are now nil.

Tillman … best lax coach of his generation.

DocBarrister

I think sports fans and commentators have gotten so over the top with judging team sports athletes based on championships in recent years. I don't think O'Neill is the best player in the sport, but it's not because of the lack of titles. In a team sport, it takes a team (I know this is a Captain Obvious statement). Duke didn't lose today because of O'Neill. They lost because Maryland dominated face offs and had a huge advantage in goal. I think Jamison went a quarter and a half in the second half without a save. When a team is not getting possessions or stops, it makes it pretty hard for an offensive player to take over a game.

I heard the same nonsense about Caitlin Clarke in March. And it works the other way too. Tom Brady is the best QB ever because "he" won 7 Super Bowls? Really? That's the measuring stick? Tom Brady is the LOAT - luckiest player of all time. He had the good fortune to play for the best defensive mind in NFL history, had games won by some unbelievably clutch FG kicker, had some bonehead coaching blunders by opposing teams. In other words, in a team sport, a lot of things need to go your way to win a championship and, more often than not, individual players benefit from a whole series of things that lead to the title.

So the lack of a title is not an indictment of O'Neill any more than another championship would anoint Pat Kavanaugh as an all time great. Kavanaugh has been surrounded by talent and that enabled ND to win with him hobbled with an injury last year and without him needing to shoulder the load this season. Teams win, not individual players. It takes 20 guys to win, not one. Put O'Neill on ND and Kavanaugh on Duke and the outcomes of both games today are the same.

Pat Kavanaugh changes the team he plays for, far more than O’Neill.

O’Neill was a great college player, and I have no doubt he will be a great player in the PLL.

But a lack of championships does matter in terms of long term perception.

Take, for example, Terry Riordan. He’s got all the numbers … one of the top Division I goal scorers of all time. Turnbull and Enners awards. Four time AA, including first team AA twice.

But Riordan never quite gets the esteem and adulation that his numbers and awards merit … I think mainly because he never won a national championship.

That’s just the way it is.

That is O’Neill’s fate.

And by the way, Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time, and it’s not even close.

DocBarrister

I agree. O'Neill is obviously great, comparable only to a few in the last 30+ years. One is Paul Rabil. Now that it's done, I'd say Rabil is well ahead of O'Neill on the hierarchy of greatest players. If BO won this year, along with a NC appearance last year and a Final 4, the discussion would be different. But Rabil won twice so that discussion is done. Shellenberger could join the Rabil discussion, and I suppose Kavanagh but he doesn't seem anywhere near the greatest conversation despite ND's dominance.