Cornell 2024

[faircornell]

It hurts to watch teams like Denver and JHU and PSU lay complete eggs in the league tourneys with no risk of losing a bid and have those putrid efforts in somewhat meaningless games cost Cornell a bid.

Couldn't agree more. I understand the NCAA wanting to create some end of season drama but if theres little incentive for a team like JHU to even show up to the B1G tourney, it creates a situation where a league like the B1G can sneak an extra bid to the tourney.

Maybe the committee should leave out UMD in a situation like this, essentially having Michigan take a B1G bid instead of a bid from another conference.

I agree too, but...

Cornell controlled their own destiny. Beat a Penn team, at home, and they're in. Very disappointed in the end result in that game; Penn beat Cornell and it wasn't even really all that close. They were in control of that game from the first quarter forward.

I agree 100%. I never got the feeling the entire game, that Cornell could come back and win that game, and not because Cornell was playing poorly, but because Penn was playing so good. They were terrific on D, they were terrific on the ground, they were so patient on offense, they fought for every inch of ground at the Kopf and their goalie was standing on his head. That's the best team game I have seen at the Kopf, against Cornell, since the Syracuse, Randy Staats game about 6 or 7 years ago.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

JoeWillie,

Sorry I haven't commented earlier. I'm really bummed Cornell is not in the NCAA Tournament. They clearly have the talent, and further the tournament could have benefited seeing the electric playmaking of Kirst and Long. Cornell had a run in them; no telling how far they'd have gotten.

There are several teams that imo should not have made it, which makes this harder to accept. But such is life. Princeton killed Yale's chances, and Penn hurt Cornell's.

The good news is that Cornell appears to be a top-5 preseason ranked team for 2025, assuming Kirst returns obviously.

Thanks for doing the polls all year.

Fin

Thanks seconded!

[Ezra White]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

Based on my experience, I have to agree with you about Cornell's culture. Here are a few anecdotes:

• I recall reading an interesting assessment by an alumnus. They attribute Cornell's intensity to Ithaca's relatively isolated location. Compared to other academic institutions I've been at, located in Greater Boston, Los Angeles, Berkeley, etc., this is certainly a valid observation.
• While working towards my MEng degree, a group of us Engineering students audited an introductory, graduate economics course in the Business school. After the first prelim, a student stood up in front of perhaps 300 students in the lecture hall and said (to the best of my recollection), "Professor! In all my undergraduate years at Yale, I've never had a course like this; the pace and workload is insane." I still remember the row of Engineering students in which I was sitting. We all looked at each other and smiled because this course, while tough, was not even close to the undergraduate courses in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. that we had all taken.
• Similarly, back in the Engineering school, we had a few students from other universities who had enrolled in one of Cornell's graduate engineering programs. I do remember one student, also from Yale, who was lost because he lacked the Cornell graduates' knowledge of mathematical transformation functions. We all had to help him out.
• To be fair, the shoe was on the other foot when, a few years later, I was at MIT and stumped at how to solve a certain calculus problem. So, I went to the TA to ask for help, and the first thing he said was: "You didn't go to MIT as an undergrad, did you? Because all MIT undergraduates know how to solve such problems." In retrospect, I think I must have forgotten how to solve this genre of problem, rather than never learning how to do so. But I do think that at times the pace and abstract emphasis of some of my undergraduate courses at Cornell may have made mastery (and retention) of more nuts-and-bolts knowledge less likely.
• Perhaps a good example of this was the required introductory statistics course I took. The textbook was Charles Lindgren's Statistical Theory. A few years later, while browsing in Berkeley's bookstore, I came across a second edition of the book, this time as the required text for Statistics 601. According to Berkeley's numbering conventions, a 601 course would typically be a required, introductory course for students in the department's PhD program. In short, what Cornell required me to learn my junior year is what Berkeley requires its Statistics PhD students to learn their first year in the PhD program. I suspect I didn't retain comparable knowledge of certain details, but I'm very thankful for the abstract, almost philosophical, understanding of the subject I learned at Cornell. (Even if it still does make me grind my teeth when I hear a newscaster say, "The margin of error was ....")
• (Added) As a high-school senior, after I sent in my deposit, Cornell's Engineering School sent me a pamphlet about workload. One thing I remember is that it said for every hour in-class, Cornell expects 3 hours out of class. And since engineering students typically take between 16 and 18 credit hours per semester, this works out to a work week of 64 to 72 hrs. I always thought this was common until, in later years, I learned that most other schools formally expect a ratio of 2:1 instead of 3:1. This is true even when -- or perhaps especially when -- the average SAT score is a few hundred points lower than at Cornell.
• Etc.

[mfp]

CJ Kirst is not a Tewaaraton finalist. https://twitter.com/LacrosseNetwork/sta ... 9529777383

Finalists:

• Pat Kavanagh
• Liam Entenmann
• Brennan O'Neill
• Connor Shellenberger
• Matt Brandau

[mfp]

CJ Kirst is not a Tewaaraton finalist. https://twitter.com/LacrosseNetwork/sta ... 9529777383

Finalists:

• Pat Kavanagh
• Liam Entenmann
• Brennan O'Neill
• Connor Shellenberger
• Matt Brandau

But, somehow, he is a first-team All American while Brennan O'Neill is a second-team All American.

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/5/9 ... tions.aspx

[faircornell]

I wonder when the Media All America team comes out.

On a second note, the change in leadership at Cornell could be positive for athletics.

[wgdsr]

CJ Kirst is not a Tewaaraton finalist. https://twitter.com/LacrosseNetwork/sta ... 9529777383

Finalists:

• Pat Kavanagh
• Liam Entenmann
• Brennan O'Neill
• Connor Shellenberger
• Matt Brandau

But, somehow, he is a first-team All American while Brennan O'Neill is a second-team All American.

https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/5/9 ... tions.aspx

that's a magazine. usila comes out i think during the final four, voted on this week.

tewaaraton is a group of different people. they're all awards. it'll be okay.

[laxfan1313]

I wonder when the Media All America team comes out.

On a second note, the change in leadership at Cornell could be positive for athletics.

As compared to her, it can't be a negative.

[DocBarrister]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

Based on my experience, I have to agree with you about Cornell's culture. Here are a few anecdotes:

• I recall reading an interesting assessment by an alumnus. They attribute Cornell's intensity to Ithaca's relatively isolated location. Compared to other academic institutions I've been at, located in Greater Boston, Los Angeles, Berkeley, etc., this is certainly a valid observation.
• While working towards my MEng degree, a group of us Engineering students audited an introductory, graduate economics course in the Business school. After the first prelim, a student stood up in front of perhaps 300 students in the lecture hall and said (to the best of my recollection), "Professor! In all my undergraduate years at Yale, I've never had a course like this; the pace and workload is insane." I still remember the row of Engineering students in which I was sitting. We all looked at each other and smiled because this course, while tough, was not even close to the undergraduate courses in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. that we had all taken.
• Similarly, back in the Engineering school, we had a few students from other universities who had enrolled in one of Cornell's graduate engineering programs. I do remember one student, also from Yale, who was lost because he lacked the Cornell graduates' knowledge of mathematical transformation functions. We all had to help him out.
• To be fair, the shoe was on the other foot when, a few years later, I was at MIT and stumped at how to solve a certain calculus problem. So, I went to the TA to ask for help, and the first thing he said was: "You didn't go to MIT as an undergrad, did you? Because all MIT undergraduates know how to solve such problems." In retrospect, I think I must have forgotten how to solve this genre of problem, rather than never learning how to do so. But I do think that at times the pace and abstract emphasis of some of my undergraduate courses at Cornell may have made mastery (and retention) of more nuts-and-bolts knowledge less likely.
• Perhaps a good example of this was the required introductory statistics course I took. The textbook was Charles Lindgren's Statistical Theory. A few years later, while browsing in Berkeley's bookstore, I came across a second edition of the book, this time as the required text for Statistics 601. According to Berkeley's numbering conventions, a 601 course would typically be a required, introductory course for students in the department's PhD program. In short, what Cornell required me to learn my junior year is what Berkeley requires its Statistics PhD students to learn their first year in the PhD program. I suspect I didn't retain comparable knowledge of certain details, but I'm very thankful for the abstract, almost philosophical, understanding of the subject I learned at Cornell. (Even if it still does make me grind my teeth when I hear a newscaster say, "The margin of error was ....")
• (Added) As a high-school senior, after I sent in my deposit, Cornell's Engineering School sent me a pamphlet about workload. One thing I remember is that it said for every hour in-class, Cornell expects 3 hours out of class. And since engineering students typically take between 16 and 18 credit hours per semester, this works out to a work week of 64 to 72 hrs. I always thought this was common until, in later years, I learned that most other schools formally expect a ratio of 2:1 instead of 3:1. This is true even when -- or perhaps especially when -- the average SAT score is a few hundred points lower than at Cornell.
• Etc.

To summarize:

(1) MIT kids really are smarter than everyone else;
(2) Yale, predictably, offers a wussy undergraduate education; and
(3) Cornell is hellacious, godforsaken misery manifest on Earth.

I think those are all reasonable descriptions. Thank you.

DocBarrister

[another fan]

Melkonian is winning faceoffs over his last 4 games at 85%-- against Roslyn (much improved team with a good fogo), Manhasset, Massapequa, and Long Beach. He is also a big threat to score off the draw, and had 3 goals against Long Beach.

Hopefully, he and Ricci can make the jump to D1 success. Psyllos was tireless and an inspiration regardless of his win %. Even if Cascadden is mostly or fully recovered, he will need relief and the team will benefit from depth and different looks.

[RedIvy]

The 2024 team may be one of the best Big Red Teams to miss the NCAA’s (fair with how close things were this year). I agree with the impact injuries had this year.

I watched all the games (live or replay) and don’t recall seeing any major injuries happen during games. I also understand practices can be pretty intense.

The team plays with a lot of intensity which I’m sure comes from practice but could there be a better balance?

[laxjuris]

The 2024 team may be one of the best Big Red Teams to miss the NCAA’s (fair with how close things were this year). I agree with the impact injuries had this year.

I watched all the games (live or replay) and don’t recall seeing any major injuries happen during games. I also understand practices can be pretty intense.

The team plays with a lot of intensity which I’m sure comes from practice but could there be a better balance?

I believe Bozzi got hurt during the Denver game.

[norcalhop]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

Based on my experience, I have to agree with you about Cornell's culture. Here are a few anecdotes:

• I recall reading an interesting assessment by an alumnus. They attribute Cornell's intensity to Ithaca's relatively isolated location. Compared to other academic institutions I've been at, located in Greater Boston, Los Angeles, Berkeley, etc., this is certainly a valid observation.
• While working towards my MEng degree, a group of us Engineering students audited an introductory, graduate economics course in the Business school. After the first prelim, a student stood up in front of perhaps 300 students in the lecture hall and said (to the best of my recollection), "Professor! In all my undergraduate years at Yale, I've never had a course like this; the pace and workload is insane." I still remember the row of Engineering students in which I was sitting. We all looked at each other and smiled because this course, while tough, was not even close to the undergraduate courses in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. that we had all taken.
• Similarly, back in the Engineering school, we had a few students from other universities who had enrolled in one of Cornell's graduate engineering programs. I do remember one student, also from Yale, who was lost because he lacked the Cornell graduates' knowledge of mathematical transformation functions. We all had to help him out.
• To be fair, the shoe was on the other foot when, a few years later, I was at MIT and stumped at how to solve a certain calculus problem. So, I went to the TA to ask for help, and the first thing he said was: "You didn't go to MIT as an undergrad, did you? Because all MIT undergraduates know how to solve such problems." In retrospect, I think I must have forgotten how to solve this genre of problem, rather than never learning how to do so. But I do think that at times the pace and abstract emphasis of some of my undergraduate courses at Cornell may have made mastery (and retention) of more nuts-and-bolts knowledge less likely.
• Perhaps a good example of this was the required introductory statistics course I took. The textbook was Charles Lindgren's Statistical Theory. A few years later, while browsing in Berkeley's bookstore, I came across a second edition of the book, this time as the required text for Statistics 601. According to Berkeley's numbering conventions, a 601 course would typically be a required, introductory course for students in the department's PhD program. In short, what Cornell required me to learn my junior year is what Berkeley requires its Statistics PhD students to learn their first year in the PhD program. I suspect I didn't retain comparable knowledge of certain details, but I'm very thankful for the abstract, almost philosophical, understanding of the subject I learned at Cornell. (Even if it still does make me grind my teeth when I hear a newscaster say, "The margin of error was ....")
• (Added) As a high-school senior, after I sent in my deposit, Cornell's Engineering School sent me a pamphlet about workload. One thing I remember is that it said for every hour in-class, Cornell expects 3 hours out of class. And since engineering students typically take between 16 and 18 credit hours per semester, this works out to a work week of 64 to 72 hrs. I always thought this was common until, in later years, I learned that most other schools formally expect a ratio of 2:1 instead of 3:1. This is true even when -- or perhaps especially when -- the average SAT score is a few hundred points lower than at Cornell.
• Etc.

This is funny. I've met my fair share of summa cum laude grads from Cornell Engineering with GPAs over 4.1 in my Mech E grad school programs. They didn't have any advanced training or above average performance over most of the other kids in the program from purdue, umichigan, georgia tech in addition to the usual top private Yale, Columbia, MIT, Stanford, Caltech etc etc type students.

[10stone5]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

Based on my experience, I have to agree with you about Cornell's culture. Here are a few anecdotes:

• I recall reading an interesting assessment by an alumnus. They attribute Cornell's intensity to Ithaca's relatively isolated location. Compared to other academic institutions I've been at, located in Greater Boston, Los Angeles, Berkeley, etc., this is certainly a valid observation.
• While working towards my MEng degree, a group of us Engineering students audited an introductory, graduate economics course in the Business school. After the first prelim, a student stood up in front of perhaps 300 students in the lecture hall and said (to the best of my recollection), "Professor! In all my undergraduate years at Yale, I've never had a course like this; the pace and workload is insane." I still remember the row of Engineering students in which I was sitting. We all looked at each other and smiled because this course, while tough, was not even close to the undergraduate courses in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. that we had all taken.
• Similarly, back in the Engineering school, we had a few students from other universities who had enrolled in one of Cornell's graduate engineering programs. I do remember one student, also from Yale, who was lost because he lacked the Cornell graduates' knowledge of mathematical transformation functions. We all had to help him out.
• To be fair, the shoe was on the other foot when, a few years later, I was at MIT and stumped at how to solve a certain calculus problem. So, I went to the TA to ask for help, and the first thing he said was: "You didn't go to MIT as an undergrad, did you? Because all MIT undergraduates know how to solve such problems." In retrospect, I think I must have forgotten how to solve this genre of problem, rather than never learning how to do so. But I do think that at times the pace and abstract emphasis of some of my undergraduate courses at Cornell may have made mastery (and retention) of more nuts-and-bolts knowledge less likely.
• Perhaps a good example of this was the required introductory statistics course I took. The textbook was Charles Lindgren's Statistical Theory. A few years later, while browsing in Berkeley's bookstore, I came across a second edition of the book, this time as the required text for Statistics 601. According to Berkeley's numbering conventions, a 601 course would typically be a required, introductory course for students in the department's PhD program. In short, what Cornell required me to learn my junior year is what Berkeley requires its Statistics PhD students to learn their first year in the PhD program. I suspect I didn't retain comparable knowledge of certain details, but I'm very thankful for the abstract, almost philosophical, understanding of the subject I learned at Cornell. (Even if it still does make me grind my teeth when I hear a newscaster say, "The margin of error was ....")
• (Added) As a high-school senior, after I sent in my deposit, Cornell's Engineering School sent me a pamphlet about workload. One thing I remember is that it said for every hour in-class, Cornell expects 3 hours out of class. And since engineering students typically take between 16 and 18 credit hours per semester, this works out to a work week of 64 to 72 hrs. I always thought this was common until, in later years, I learned that most other schools formally expect a ratio of 2:1 instead of 3:1. This is true even when -- or perhaps especially when -- the average SAT score is a few hundred points lower than at Cornell.
• Etc.

This is funny. I've met my fair share of summa cum laude grads from Cornell Engineering with GPAs over 4.1 in my Mech E grad school programs. They didn't have any advanced training or above average performance over most of the other kids in the program from purdue, umichigan, georgia tech in addition to the usual top private Yale, Columbia, MIT, Stanford, Caltech etc etc type students.

So, you're saying Cornell Engineer grads are still top 10 nationally ?
That's how I read it.

That's pretty good.

[faircornell]

Well, these days, all of the engineering departments that you note (except for Yale) are ranked either approximately equal to Cornell or better than Cornell.

In my day, it seemed like the frighteningly brilliant students gravitated toward Engineering Physics or Electrical Engineering.

[Chousnake]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

I disagree with your hypothesis. As a Cornell alum and parent of two Cornell graduates, I have heard this culture argument and I don't necessarily dispute it. However, Cornell is a large university (from an Ivy standpoint) and is not monolithic. There are majors that require a ridiculous amount of work and some that do not and many that are in the middle. There are students that work incredibly hard and some that do not. Furthermore, I think the culture of the lacrosse team would be shaped more by the coaching staff and the tradition of the program rather than the university as a whole. To say that the culture of the campus and school leads to underperformance in a Friday night ILT game year after year seems unlikely to me. Plus, if the life of a Cornell student is wearing down the lax team for the late season ILT, that would mean it would carry over into the NCAA tourney as well. I'm not sure who has the better record in the NCAA tourney in recent years - Cornell or Yale, but I would be surprised if any Ivy League lax team has had more NCAA tourney wins or a better tourney record than Cornell over the past 20 or so years.

[Ezra White]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

Based on my experience, I have to agree with you about Cornell's culture. Here are a few anecdotes:

• I recall reading an interesting assessment by an alumnus. They attribute Cornell's intensity to Ithaca's relatively isolated location. Compared to other academic institutions I've been at, located in Greater Boston, Los Angeles, Berkeley, etc., this is certainly a valid observation.
• While working towards my MEng degree, a group of us Engineering students audited an introductory, graduate economics course in the Business school. After the first prelim, a student stood up in front of perhaps 300 students in the lecture hall and said (to the best of my recollection), "Professor! In all my undergraduate years at Yale, I've never had a course like this; the pace and workload is insane." I still remember the row of Engineering students in which I was sitting. We all looked at each other and smiled because this course, while tough, was not even close to the undergraduate courses in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. that we had all taken.
• Similarly, back in the Engineering school, we had a few students from other universities who had enrolled in one of Cornell's graduate engineering programs. I do remember one student, also from Yale, who was lost because he lacked the Cornell graduates' knowledge of mathematical transformation functions. We all had to help him out.
• To be fair, the shoe was on the other foot when, a few years later, I was at MIT and stumped at how to solve a certain calculus problem. So, I went to the TA to ask for help, and the first thing he said was: "You didn't go to MIT as an undergrad, did you? Because all MIT undergraduates know how to solve such problems." In retrospect, I think I must have forgotten how to solve this genre of problem, rather than never learning how to do so. But I do think that at times the pace and abstract emphasis of some of my undergraduate courses at Cornell may have made mastery (and retention) of more nuts-and-bolts knowledge less likely.
• Perhaps a good example of this was the required introductory statistics course I took. The textbook was Charles Lindgren's Statistical Theory. A few years later, while browsing in Berkeley's bookstore, I came across a second edition of the book, this time as the required text for Statistics 601. According to Berkeley's numbering conventions, a 601 course would typically be a required, introductory course for students in the department's PhD program. In short, what Cornell required me to learn my junior year is what Berkeley requires its Statistics PhD students to learn their first year in the PhD program. I suspect I didn't retain comparable knowledge of certain details, but I'm very thankful for the abstract, almost philosophical, understanding of the subject I learned at Cornell. (Even if it still does make me grind my teeth when I hear a newscaster say, "The margin of error was ....")
• (Added) As a high-school senior, after I sent in my deposit, Cornell's Engineering School sent me a pamphlet about workload. One thing I remember is that it said for every hour in-class, Cornell expects 3 hours out of class. And since engineering students typically take between 16 and 18 credit hours per semester, this works out to a work week of 64 to 72 hrs. I always thought this was common until, in later years, I learned that most other schools formally expect a ratio of 2:1 instead of 3:1. This is true even when -- or perhaps especially when -- the average SAT score is a few hundred points lower than at Cornell.
• Etc.

This is funny. I've met my fair share of summa cum laude grads from Cornell Engineering with GPAs over 4.1 in my Mech E grad school programs. They didn't have any advanced training or above average performance over most of the other kids in the program from purdue, umichigan, georgia tech in addition to the usual top private Yale, Columbia, MIT, Stanford, Caltech etc etc type students.

Just to be clear: I was pointing to the intensity; but for the most part, I wasn't claiming the intensity produced noticeably better performance, especially compared to other top engineering schools.

[Farfromgeneva]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

Based on my experience, I have to agree with you about Cornell's culture. Here are a few anecdotes:

• I recall reading an interesting assessment by an alumnus. They attribute Cornell's intensity to Ithaca's relatively isolated location. Compared to other academic institutions I've been at, located in Greater Boston, Los Angeles, Berkeley, etc., this is certainly a valid observation.
• While working towards my MEng degree, a group of us Engineering students audited an introductory, graduate economics course in the Business school. After the first prelim, a student stood up in front of perhaps 300 students in the lecture hall and said (to the best of my recollection), "Professor! In all my undergraduate years at Yale, I've never had a course like this; the pace and workload is insane." I still remember the row of Engineering students in which I was sitting. We all looked at each other and smiled because this course, while tough, was not even close to the undergraduate courses in thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, etc. that we had all taken.
• Similarly, back in the Engineering school, we had a few students from other universities who had enrolled in one of Cornell's graduate engineering programs. I do remember one student, also from Yale, who was lost because he lacked the Cornell graduates' knowledge of mathematical transformation functions. We all had to help him out.
• To be fair, the shoe was on the other foot when, a few years later, I was at MIT and stumped at how to solve a certain calculus problem. So, I went to the TA to ask for help, and the first thing he said was: "You didn't go to MIT as an undergrad, did you? Because all MIT undergraduates know how to solve such problems." In retrospect, I think I must have forgotten how to solve this genre of problem, rather than never learning how to do so. But I do think that at times the pace and abstract emphasis of some of my undergraduate courses at Cornell may have made mastery (and retention) of more nuts-and-bolts knowledge less likely.
• Perhaps a good example of this was the required introductory statistics course I took. The textbook was Charles Lindgren's Statistical Theory. A few years later, while browsing in Berkeley's bookstore, I came across a second edition of the book, this time as the required text for Statistics 601. According to Berkeley's numbering conventions, a 601 course would typically be a required, introductory course for students in the department's PhD program. In short, what Cornell required me to learn my junior year is what Berkeley requires its Statistics PhD students to learn their first year in the PhD program. I suspect I didn't retain comparable knowledge of certain details, but I'm very thankful for the abstract, almost philosophical, understanding of the subject I learned at Cornell. (Even if it still does make me grind my teeth when I hear a newscaster say, "The margin of error was ....")
• (Added) As a high-school senior, after I sent in my deposit, Cornell's Engineering School sent me a pamphlet about workload. One thing I remember is that it said for every hour in-class, Cornell expects 3 hours out of class. And since engineering students typically take between 16 and 18 credit hours per semester, this works out to a work week of 64 to 72 hrs. I always thought this was common until, in later years, I learned that most other schools formally expect a ratio of 2:1 instead of 3:1. This is true even when -- or perhaps especially when -- the average SAT score is a few hundred points lower than at Cornell.
• Etc.

This is funny. I've met my fair share of summa cum laude grads from Cornell Engineering with GPAs over 4.1 in my Mech E grad school programs. They didn't have any advanced training or above average performance over most of the other kids in the program from purdue, umichigan, georgia tech in addition to the usual top private Yale, Columbia, MIT, Stanford, Caltech etc etc type students.

I have a few Purdue unsergrad or mba friends and they are all very smart and hard workers. None are very dynamic or good as the face of an org. One was CFO of McKinsey for a while but didn’t want to leave Atlanta. Anecdotal but I’m biased in a positive direction towards Purdue kids for a relatively random Midwest school and me being a coastal finance guy.

[Red4Life]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

I disagree with your hypothesis. As a Cornell alum and parent of two Cornell graduates, I have heard this culture argument and I don't necessarily dispute it. However, Cornell is a large university (from an Ivy standpoint) and is not monolithic. There are majors that require a ridiculous amount of work and some that do not and many that are in the middle. There are students that work incredibly hard and some that do not. Furthermore, I think the culture of the lacrosse team would be shaped more by the coaching staff and the tradition of the program rather than the university as a whole. To say that the culture of the campus and school leads to underperformance in a Friday night ILT game year after year seems unlikely to me. Plus, if the life of a Cornell student is wearing down the lax team for the late season ILT, that would mean it would carry over into the NCAA tourney as well. I'm not sure who has the better record in the NCAA tourney in recent years - Cornell or Yale, but I would be surprised if any Ivy League lax team has had more NCAA tourney wins or a better tourney record than Cornell over the past 20 or so years.

Agree with this CSnake…..having gotten my undergrad from CU - the hardest part was getting IN….getting out is a function of doing what needs to be done - it is the rare athlete that is hunkered in the Engineering Labs or Architecture program at all let alone during seasons (yes there are definitely some- but they are the exception and It the rule!)
Cornell - great school - bright kids etc….but this just in folks - so are many many schools in the country! I have my diploma proudly framed in my office and it definitely garners some respectful conversations - but it is very short sighted mixed with a bit of “pride of degree” to think that earning a Cornell degree is harder to earn than at any other competitive school. I would offer that the non classroom skills I honed at CU have served me far better than the in classroom education!
One man’s view!

Tough watching the ncaas without the big red participating !!

[Red4Life]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

I disagree with your hypothesis. As a Cornell alum and parent of two Cornell graduates, I have heard this culture argument and I don't necessarily dispute it. However, Cornell is a large university (from an Ivy standpoint) and is not monolithic. There are majors that require a ridiculous amount of work and some that do not and many that are in the middle. There are students that work incredibly hard and some that do not. Furthermore, I think the culture of the lacrosse team would be shaped more by the coaching staff and the tradition of the program rather than the university as a whole. To say that the culture of the campus and school leads to underperformance in a Friday night ILT game year after year seems unlikely to me. Plus, if the life of a Cornell student is wearing down the lax team for the late season ILT, that would mean it would carry over into the NCAA tourney as well. I'm not sure who has the better record in the NCAA tourney in recent years - Cornell or Yale, but I would be surprised if any Ivy League lax team has had more NCAA tourney wins or a better tourney record than Cornell over the past 20 or so years.

Agree with this CSnake…..having gotten my undergrad from CU - the hardest part was getting IN….getting out is a function of doing what needs to be done - it is the rare athlete that is hunkered in the Engineering Labs or Architecture program at all let alone during seasons (yes there are definitely some- but they are the exception and It the rule!)
Cornell - great school - bright kids etc….but this just in folks - so are many many schools in the country! I have my diploma proudly framed in my office and it definitely garners some respectful conversations - but it is very short sighted mixed with a bit of “pride of degree” to think that earning a Cornell degree is harder to earn than at any other competitive school. I would offer that the non classroom skills I honed at CU have served me far better than the in classroom education!
One man’s view!

Tough watching the ncaas without the big red participating !!

[norcalhop]

As a final note, and as I mentioned in passing, I've often wondered if Cornell's better performance in the regular season vs the ILT is partially due to the culture of the school. Cornell, generally, focuses on a highly rigorous daily routine, both in the classroom and on the field. Also, from social media, it looks like the team practices at dawn more than in the night time. I have often wondered if the ILT night games are a bit of a letdown, and if player's rhythms are a bit out of sync for these late evening contests. I certainly could be wrong in this observation.

This is an interesting observation. Do we know when the other Ivies work out or practice?

If Cornell can use sensors to research body functioning in order to design better hockey uniforms for women, surely there are students & faculty at Cornell who can investigate your hypothesis and, perhaps, help devise a better training regimen.

I am fairly sure that, with a few exceptions, the early morning practices are those held in the off season because fall sports are using the fields in the afternoon/early evening. One of the reasons that Cornell teams often practice before classes in the morning rather than at night is that there are evening prelims on Tuesdays and Thursdays and evening classes on Mondays and Wednesdays. It is hard to run a practice when you are missing an attackman from the first line or 2 goalies who happen to be taking the same class!

What if a random lacrosse roster is equally distributed among the four chronotypes? This could imply that 3/4 of the team are practicing when they should be sleeping, eating, etc.

I'll defer to the main point of my post, (Cornell's culture) with one final attempt to illustrate my point. Practice times aside, the thrust of my argument was the relative cultures of the different Ivy schools. I've had family friends' children attend Cornell, and they are always astounded by the work ethic and rigor of the daily routine. Personally, I was in a graduate degree program after Cornell that was populated with (at least) 90% Ivy grads,and "Ivy plus" grads (service academies, NESCAC, Stanford, MIT, Oxbridge). The Cornell grads were the hardest workers, the first people in their seats, the most focused note takers, and the most serious students (which didn't always translate into the best academic results or highest academic honors). So, my hypothesis is that the typical Cornell student is more worn down by the end of the day than those from other Ivy institutions, This cultural difference, I'd argue, is cumulative over years of study and habit. Thus, Cornell seems to underperform in ILT night games as a function of the ingrained habits of the athletes. My hypothesis is, certainly, open to dispute. However, ILT results versus the regular season seem to suggest that it is not completely absurd.

I disagree with your hypothesis. As a Cornell alum and parent of two Cornell graduates, I have heard this culture argument and I don't necessarily dispute it. However, Cornell is a large university (from an Ivy standpoint) and is not monolithic. There are majors that require a ridiculous amount of work and some that do not and many that are in the middle. There are students that work incredibly hard and some that do not. Furthermore, I think the culture of the lacrosse team would be shaped more by the coaching staff and the tradition of the program rather than the university as a whole. To say that the culture of the campus and school leads to underperformance in a Friday night ILT game year after year seems unlikely to me. Plus, if the life of a Cornell student is wearing down the lax team for the late season ILT, that would mean it would carry over into the NCAA tourney as well. I'm not sure who has the better record in the NCAA tourney in recent years - Cornell or Yale, but I would be surprised if any Ivy League lax team has had more NCAA tourney wins or a better tourney record than Cornell over the past 20 or so years.

Agree with this CSnake…..having gotten my undergrad from CU - the hardest part was getting IN….getting out is a function of doing what needs to be done - it is the rare athlete that is hunkered in the Engineering Labs or Architecture program at all let alone during seasons (yes there are definitely some- but they are the exception and It the rule!)
Cornell - great school - bright kids etc….but this just in folks - so are many many schools in the country! I have my diploma proudly framed in my office and it definitely garners some respectful conversations - but it is very short sighted mixed with a bit of “pride of degree” to think that earning a Cornell degree is harder to earn than at any other competitive school. I would offer that the non classroom skills I honed at CU have served me far better than the in classroom education!
One man’s view!

Tough watching the ncaas without the big red participating !!

Agreed. Cornell kids and other kids from good engineering or good privates mostly blend in. I have not seen uniformly students from Cornell Eng be harder working, more prepared, or more successful than ones from Yale Eng.