Home Stretch / National Rankings

[PhillyChillax]

I love this time of the year - teams start to separate themselves from one another in the rankings as championships approach.  I typically think that the IWLCA rankings are most accurate, however this week's DIII women’s poll is a bit curious, especially as it relates to F&M...

#2 Franklin & Marshall
Top 20 Wins (2, including 1 top 10 win):
+1 (OT) over #5 Salisbury
+4 over #19 York
Worst losses
-7 to #7 Washington & Lee
-9 to # 1 Middlebury

#3 Tufts
Top 20 Wins (5, including 1 top 10 win):
+2 over #7 Washington & Lee
+9 over #11 Colby
+8 over #16 Williams
+12 over #17 MIT
+14 over #20 Trinity
Worst losses
-2 to #4 Wesleyan
-1 to # 1 Middlebury

#4 Wesleyan
Top 20 Wins (6, including 3 top 10 wins):
+2 over #3 Tufts
+6 over #5 Salisbury
+3 over #6 William Smith
+9 over #14 Amherst
+4 over #16 Williams
+4 over #20 Trinity
Worst losses
-2 to #11 Colby
-2 to # 1 Middlebury

In short,
F&M has only 1 top 10 win, and only 1 other top 20 W
F&M was trounced by Middlebury (both Wesleyan and Tufts took Middlebury to the very end)

US Lacrosse is probably a bit more accurate here w/
#2 Wesleyan (based on head-to-head W over Tufts and 3 top 10 wins)
#3 Tufts
#4 Franklin & Marshall
 
Mike Faith is a top coach, but maybe he’s an even better politician??

[rollwave]

Agreed, there doesn't seem to be any competitive justification for F&M at #2. They have a nice win vs. Salisbury, but were beat pretty bad by the other top teams they played (Midd and W&L). Wes and Tufts simply have better resumes. Based on results, F&M probably belongs somewhere in the 4-8 range, and I don't think a win tomorrow vs. Gettysburg would change that.

It's unfortunate, but I guess not unexpected, that political motives / regional biases factor into the rankings. If the NCAA bracket is similar to last year, there will be a region (and host) that is noticeably worse than the rest due to geographic criteria, so being considered a top-3 team at the end of the year will be important for hosting regions.

[laxfan22]

I think that’s valid. Not sure it’s a huge deal. Frankly I think some of the bigger misses are lower down. No way Ithaca should be behind Stevens for example. I’m not sure TCNJ should remain in the top 10 either, as they simply don’t have a good win. Pomona plays one decent team in Williams and loses by 7 and barely moves (although they lost the #1 vote lol). Should be in the 17-20 range.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Does the current way of choosing NCAA tournament teams hurt the NESCAC teams? Are they all -- Middlebury, Wes, Tufts -- bunched into the same region...so that there is no chance of meeting in the semis or final? Sorry; I just don't follow the selection process with enough care.

[laxfan22]

Last year, the ncaa made one bracket that was a walk to the final 4 for F&M - they were sent to the “west” bracket while basically the rest of the top teams played in 3 brackets with the nescac schools in 2 of them and I think the bracket that played at W&L had 4 of the top 11 ranked teams? Something like that.

Additionally, the NCAA really hurts the second tier NESCAC teams like Amherst as well as teams like Ithaca and Haverford who don’t get at large bids bc teams like DePauw and John Carroll were given at large bids. Simply, they aren’t taking the best at large teams on the d3 level, unlike every other sport/level (that I’m aware of). It’s a shame.

[Bart]

Does the current way of choosing NCAA tournament teams hurt the NESCAC teams? Are they all -- Middlebury, Wes, Tufts -- bunched into the same region...so that there is no chance of meeting in the semis or final? Sorry; I just don't follow the selection process with enough care.

This is the selection criteria for this year.
You can find the 23-24 manual here(click on the pre link:https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/11/5/d ... rosse.aspx

The following are the primary criteria:
PRIMARY CRITERIA The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
● Won-lost percentage against Division III opponents.
● Division III head-to-head competition.
● Results versus common Division III opponents.
● Results versus ranked Division III teams as established by the final ranking. Conference postseason contests are included.
● Division III strength of schedule. Opponents’ Average Winning Percentage (OWP). Opponents’ Opponents’ Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).

Secondary criteria:
If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be reviewed. All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order). The secondary criteria introduce results against out-ofregion Division III and all other opponents including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NAIA, NCAA Divisions I and II).
● Won-lost percentage during the last 25% of the season;
● Non-Division III won-lost percentage; ● Results versus common non-Division III opponents; and
● Division III non-conference strength of schedule. Additionally, input is provided by regional advisory committees for consideration by the Division III Women’s Lacrosse Committee. In order to be considered for selection for Pools B or C, an institution must play at least 70% of its competition against in-region opponents. Coaches’ polls and/or any other outside polls or rankings are not used by the Division III Women’s Lacrosse Committee for selection purposes.

Determination of teams
Once automatic qualifiers are identified and the Pools B and C teams are selected, the following guidelines should be followed:
● Teams will be grouped in clusters according to natural geographic proximity. Teams shall then be paired according to geographic proximity. A team may be moved to numerically balance the bracket if geographic proximity is maintained. Teams shall be paired and eligible according to geographic proximity (within 500 miles). An exception may be granted when there are not enough teams within the 500-mile radius to fill the region.
● Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional-selection criteria. However, geographic proximity shall take precedence over seeding. ● Teams from the same conference shall not play one another in the first round.
● The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria shall be selected as the host institution, provided geographic proximity is maintained.

Flights will be kept to a minimum.

So again the NCAA is using a regional classification season so some teams from the "better" regions will be left out. (IMO) I believe there is talk about the regional format and moving to a format that is similar for all sports.

The first regional rankings are set to drop April 17th.

[laxfan22]

Ridiculous. Only d3 gets this type of ncaa treatment.

[lax410]

Last year, the ncaa made one bracket that was a walk to the final 4 for F&M - they were sent to the “west” bracket while basically the rest of the top teams played in 3 brackets with the nescac schools in 2 of them and I think the bracket that played at W&L had 4 of the top 11 ranked teams? Something like that.

Additionally, the NCAA really hurts the second tier NESCAC teams like Amherst as well as teams like Ithaca and Haverford who don’t get at large bids bc teams like DePauw and John Carroll were given at large bids. Simply, they aren’t taking the best at large teams on the d3 level, unlike every other sport/level (that I’m aware of). It’s a shame.

This is my memory from last year as well. If you looked at the regional rankings, I don’t believe any team ranked below third (maybe fourth?) got in last year. Despite that the top six NESCAC teams were stronger than some of the central or western divisions at large bids.

Really seems to impact that NESCACs the most. Would they even advocate for it?

[laxfan8911]

Home Stretch will be exciting. There seems to be quite a few very strong teams in the top 10. Gettysburg has been dropped from 6th to 8th in coaches poll despite not losing a game since their loss to Salisbury on March 13th. After their win against F & M on 4/17 we will see if they have some upward movement. There is a lot of parity this season so I think the regions will have a more equal dispersion this year. (but who knows) Last year there was for sure one very weak bracket. It seems like they take the top 3 to four from each region to keep with the NCAAA Division III philosophy. Love the post season and watching some great lacrosse!!!

[laxfan8911]

Well --- Gettysburg 6 on IWCLA despite beating F and M and having a better record with more wins against Ranked teams. USA Lacrosse gave them 5th. I like looking at laxnumbers and massey ratings because it takes opinion out of the process. For sure Middlebury, Tufts and Wesleyan are top 3. NESCAC is very strong this year.

[lax410]

Super close game between the top Centennial teams. Could have gone either way. The rematch should be a good one.

Lax Numbers is really interesting re the teams in the outlier areas. Pomona stands out as a team that is in a very different spot on that site (37) v IWLCA polls (11).

[laxfan22]

I don’t think it’s that difficult to look at Pomona and their results and conclude they are ranked way too high.

[lovelax]

Keep in mind that coaches make up a large part of the voting block for IWLCA rankings and there is always some bias. F&M and Salisbury are perennially overrated. Why does Tufts outrank Wes and F&*M outrank the Bullets when head to head both higher-ranked teams lost? The only rankings that matter are the regional rankings for seeding and hosting regionals and who is # 1 as season's end.

[lovelax]

AND Pamona-Pitzer loses to a team in the NESCAC (Williams) who is teetering on even making an 8 team NESCAC conference playoff. Someone voting is sweet on PP! Still ranked too high and after the loss the holdout #1 voter for PP had to stop voting for them.

[laxfan22]

Lost by 7 to Williams too. There us nothing in that resume that justifies being as high as they are. And the #1 vote, as you noted, just absurd.

[Bart]

Second set of regional rankings.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/lacrosse- ... l-rankings

[laxfan22]

How is at Mary’s of Maryland in a region with Ohio and Illinois teams? That has to be a mistake, no?

[rollwave]

If you look at the 23-24 manual, the regions are broken down by specific conferences, not actual geographic locations. Per the manual, St. Mary's (MD)'s conference is in the same region as those IL and OH teams. Kind of odd, but not incorrect.

[laxfan22]

Thanks. That conference has no one west of central PA though lol. Wilson college, Lancaster Bible, cedar crest, notre dame of Maryland & bryn athyn.

[lovelax]

Best games for the upcoming weekend are Tufts/Wes in NESCAC semis and likely GBurg/F&M in Centennial (if all goes chalk) Tufts looking for revenge after giving up 6 unanswered goals in the 4th to lose the first game. Last year Wes also won the regular season math but lost conference semis and then NCAA game with Tufts. I see Tufts winning this and then will they have enough left to play Midd?

F&M also looking for revenge after a one-goal loss. Over most of the last several seasons the host of the finals has lost to the visiting team. The winner of this game was shipped to weakest region last year (F&M) but I think the winer gets to host regions in 2024. Last year's conference final loser (Bullets) had a brutal region with W&L, York and Salisbury and still made it to Salem.

Also William Smith and Ithaca will likely have a re-boot. I think this game will be different and the Herons will prevail. Ithaca dominated the draw last game (and the score) as one Bomber MF had 17 or so DC's. Wes showed how to shut down WS's dodgers with a zone as that game was not as close as the score. Will Ithaca do the same?

Other games include likely C2C finals with Salisbury v CNU who is solid and beat W&L earlier this season. ODAC is still owned by W&L but two conference foes have made this a bit tougher road to the ODAC championship.

Hopefully there is no mid-west host for regions this year. I think regions will/should hosted by Midd, Wes/Tufts winner, Gburg/F&M winner and maybe WS? Even if Midd loses the NESCAC finals they would still be the only 1 loss power team and still should host. Any other good matchups in conference finals?