Them vs. U.S. - The Two Americas ...

[OCanada]

Perhaps avoid using good and evil which are very subjective try using true or false as to the underlying assumptions.

[OCanada]

Perhaps avoid using good and evil which are very subjective try using true or false as to the underlying assumptions.

[MDlaxfan76]

Fair question, Kram.

What exactly are these "fringe behaviors" and "personal choices" that are so "offensive"?

Surely we're not talking about a "personal choice" that is "offensive" to others because of religious beliefs?

Certain religious sects were certainly considered "fringe" and "offensive" to others holding other beliefs...and yet, that's a big part of the core rationale of America...

Or is this something "offensive" by some well-reasoned ethical standard? If so, what's that standard?

Kram,

I'm quoting myself because I think I above asked this set of questions in a polite way to actually get better informed as to your specific points.

And yet not answered....yet. You may have missed my questions.

I understand your later point with a fan to differentiate between beliefs and behaviors, but as soon as you say something is 'offensive' or that someone finds something 'offensive' we're into the thoughts and beliefs realm.

You specifically said: "But the left's desire to go a step further and celebrate fringe behaviors and very personal choices that is offensive."

Not quite grammatical, but that's not the confusion here, I think. It's what you exactly mean as the ' fringe behaviors' (specifically) that the 'left' 'celebrates' (how?) and are 'offensive' (why?).

Examples please.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This is how we used to deal with things that were offensive. We need more of this.

[cradleandshoot]

This is how we used to deal with things that were offensive. We need more of this.

To think I arrived at my Catholic HS for 4 years wearing a suit and tie ever day. I would be stunned if any student in HS today even knows how to tie a Windsor knot...

[Typical Lax Dad]

American History

[jhu72]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

[a fan]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

[jhu72]

... and then you compound this story with the many that are reporting the fact that American males are going to college at much lower rates than women (and graduating at lower rates). Not a pretty situation.

[Typical Lax Dad]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

I am hoping some of my fellow forum members that think college is a waste of time and money encourage their descendants not to go. I really hope they advise them against “elite” colleges. I am going to advise mine to reach….and with a smaller applicant pool, their chances of will be better. Works for me.

[JoeMauer89]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

I am hoping some of my fellow forum members that think college is a waste of time and money encourage their descendants not to go. I really hope they advise them against “elite” colleges. I am going to advise mine to reach….and with a smaller applicant pool, their chances of will be better. Works for me.

When in doubt, pull a George Costanza. I know you too well now!

Joe

[Typical Lax Dad]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

I am hoping some of my fellow forum members that think college is a waste of time and money encourage their descendants not to go. I really hope they advise them against “elite” colleges. I am going to advise mine to reach….and with a smaller applicant pool, their chances of will be better. Works for me.

When in doubt, pull a George Costanza. I know you too well now!

Joe

By all means…..please discourage everyone you know to not go to college. Go to ITT or Porter & Chester….if it has to be college, find something as cheap as possible that’s not “elite”….please.

[PizzaSnake]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

Same as it ever was, and will be.

[a fan]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

Same as it ever was, and will be.

No. In time? Gen X&Z will take power away from the Boomers that are ROYALLY screwing them with their game of kick the ladder out from under them. "Government help for me, and not for thee"......Kids are wising up to this game, and they'll run things soon enough.

The problem as I see it is: will this help come Federally? Or will the libs in Big Cities and States get sick of subsidizing States that are feverishly trying to take their rights away.....and simply give up on the Fed?

This part worries me. Because that will accelerate the gap between the haves and the have nots to light speed.

Because what's keeping the liberal States from banding together to have things like free health care and State Uni/vocational training? And telling the other States to F off because their reps keep fighting doing it on a Federal level?

Nothing. Nothing is stopping them. All it takes is a few smart 30 year olds. And we've got a ton of them.

[JoeMauer89]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

I am hoping some of my fellow forum members that think college is a waste of time and money encourage their descendants not to go. I really hope they advise them against “elite” colleges. I am going to advise mine to reach….and with a smaller applicant pool, their chances of will be better. Works for me.

When in doubt, pull a George Costanza. I know you too well now!

Joe

By all means…..please discourage everyone you know to not go to college. Go to ITT or Porter & Chester….if it has to be college, find something as cheap as possible that’s not “elite”….please.

It's too crowded there, nobody goes there anymore!

Joe

[Typical Lax Dad]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

Same as it ever was, and will be.

No. In time? Gen X&Z will take power away from the Boomers that are ROYALLY screwing them with their game of kick the ladder out from under them. "Government help for me, and not for thee"......Kids are wising up to this game, and they'll run things soon enough.

The problem as I see it is: will this help come Federally? Or will the libs in Big Cities and States get sick of subsidizing States that are feverishly trying to take their rights away.....and simply give up on the Fed?

This part worries me. Because that will accelerate the gap between the haves and the have nots to light speed.

Because what's keeping the liberal States from banding together to have things like free health care and State Uni/vocational training? And telling the other States to F off because their reps keep fighting doing it on a Federal level?

Nothing. Nothing is stopping them. All it takes is a few smart 30 year olds. And we've got a ton of them.

Wait until a hardcore liberal out Trump’s Trump. These fools don’t want me in charge. I would actually be vindictive. It’s the only language some people understand. A foot in the ass is what they would get from me.

[a fan]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

Same as it ever was, and will be.

No. In time? Gen X&Z will take power away from the Boomers that are ROYALLY screwing them with their game of kick the ladder out from under them. "Government help for me, and not for thee"......Kids are wising up to this game, and they'll run things soon enough.

The problem as I see it is: will this help come Federally? Or will the libs in Big Cities and States get sick of subsidizing States that are feverishly trying to take their rights away.....and simply give up on the Fed?

This part worries me. Because that will accelerate the gap between the haves and the have nots to light speed.

Because what's keeping the liberal States from banding together to have things like free health care and State Uni/vocational training? And telling the other States to F off because their reps keep fighting doing it on a Federal level?

Nothing. Nothing is stopping them. All it takes is a few smart 30 year olds. And we've got a ton of them.

Wait until a hardcore liberal out Trump’s Trump. These fools don’t want me in charge. I would actually be vindictive. It’s the only language some people understand. A foot in the ass is what they would get from me.

Well I've said it before that Right Wing America can't conceive of a liberal version of Trump....it's why they let Trump break laws, lie, cheat, steal. And it's' why they have no issue with Court packing. They don't think real, true libs will ever come to power.

They're mistaken. Especially as the poor and working class fall further, and further behind.

[Typical Lax Dad]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

Same as it ever was, and will be.

No. In time? Gen X&Z will take power away from the Boomers that are ROYALLY screwing them with their game of kick the ladder out from under them. "Government help for me, and not for thee"......Kids are wising up to this game, and they'll run things soon enough.

The problem as I see it is: will this help come Federally? Or will the libs in Big Cities and States get sick of subsidizing States that are feverishly trying to take their rights away.....and simply give up on the Fed?

This part worries me. Because that will accelerate the gap between the haves and the have nots to light speed.

Because what's keeping the liberal States from banding together to have things like free health care and State Uni/vocational training? And telling the other States to F off because their reps keep fighting doing it on a Federal level?

Nothing. Nothing is stopping them. All it takes is a few smart 30 year olds. And we've got a ton of them.

Wait until a hardcore liberal out Trump’s Trump. These fools don’t want me in charge. I would actually be vindictive. It’s the only language some people understand. A foot in the ass is what they would get from me.

Well I've said it before that Right Wing America can't conceive of a liberal version of Trump....it's why they let Trump break laws, lie, cheat, steal. And it's' why they have no issue with Court packing. They don't think real, true libs will ever come to power.

They're mistaken. Especially as the poor and working class fall further, and further behind.

I have said the same thing. Giving Trump a pass on all these things is just giving future candidates a read. I would take as much as possible. I would let those poor folk that want to go back to the 1940s to live that way while the rest of us move forward. Push to get rid of the EC. Pack the courts with some real fervent liberals that are ok with expanding Presidential power…..and this immunity from all crimes….would love it.

[PizzaSnake]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

The Republicans on the board think that I'm a partisan nutjob for asking them over and over and over: what's your plan for the American working class?

You understand this, of course, because like me, you'd prefer moderate solutions to center left.

But the right aren't offering a thing. They don't know what to do. So what to they do? Give us Trump and shiny conspiracy theories to keep the rabble from understanding how F'ed their kids are, with no solutions in the offing.

It's sad. And we're at best another 10 years before Trumpism goes anywhere. My bet? It never goes away.

Same as it ever was, and will be.

No. In time? Gen X&Z will take power away from the Boomers that are ROYALLY screwing them with their game of kick the ladder out from under them. "Government help for me, and not for thee"......Kids are wising up to this game, and they'll run things soon enough.

The problem as I see it is: will this help come Federally? Or will the libs in Big Cities and States get sick of subsidizing States that are feverishly trying to take their rights away.....and simply give up on the Fed?

This part worries me. Because that will accelerate the gap between the haves and the have nots to light speed.

Because what's keeping the liberal States from banding together to have things like free health care and State Uni/vocational training? And telling the other States to F off because their reps keep fighting doing it on a Federal level?

Nothing. Nothing is stopping them. All it takes is a few smart 30 year olds. And we've got a ton of them.

In general I agree with you, but there is always the very, very real threat of an imminent theocratic despotism settling over the land like the smog from a distant fire. Or, the cycle of co-option, although that looks less likely as the X and the following cohorts have been screwed pretty hard.

[youthathletics]

College educated Americans live on average 8.5 years longer than those without college degrees. No other "wealthy nation" experiences this phenomenon.

What I found interesting is that nothing in this entire paper referenced military. I even queried the term military, war, defense.....no mention, anywhere. Not undermining the study at all, but I tend to seek what else are we missing....my career demands seeking anomalies, outliers, and cause.

There most certainly should have been a data point to align there data with this cohort....my guess is that will account for a major part of the gap, specifically since 2001 and current.

I wonder if the BA also ate more fruits and veggies vs Funyons and Cigs.