youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:35 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:13 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 12:57 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:55 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:51 am
Powerful aid!
What I do not understand is how the medical field would not already know that a woman carrying a lifeless fetus with no amniotic fluid would not ultimately end in problematic medical/personal complication. Not to mention, the lifeless fetus, essentially deemed her no longer pregnant...so would it have been an abortion by definition?
OB-GYNs in many states are now threatened with loss of license or even jail under the statutes passed. It’s up to the courts to adjudicate whether an abortive procedure is or was legally acceptable and in some states people unrelated to the situation can force an action against the doctors…and they’re organized to do so. Even rewarded for doing so.
Exceptions for the life of the mother puts the onus on the doctor to prove the likelihood of death and there typically aren’t exceptions around viability of a fetus or the risk to future pregnancies. After all, in these people’s mindset, miracles do happen and it’s in God’s hands.
That’s the outcome of Dobbs…and returning it to state legislatures captured by far right extremism.
If not fixed at a federal level, it may take a decade or more of voter outrage to overturn the extremists, with a very real possibility of Gilead-like split, consolidating extremists in a handful of southern states. Migration out by those with wherewithal.
But I think it will not come to the latter as I think we will eventually have a federal return to something akin to Roe based on viability outside of the womb as the floor basic right, with doctors and pregnant woman making those calls at any stage including late stage. Get the government out of the decisions again. But the GOP is going to need to lose a lot of election cycles.
You provided no further argument to my question, other than to say OB/GYN's feel threatened...my argument is the Texas allows medical to make these calls...seems it would apply in this case, based solely off what was presented.
THe Texas Rule still allows for exception.
WHAT IS TEXAS' MEDICAL EXCEPTION?
Texas has banned nearly all abortion since the U.S. Supreme Court last June overturned its landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling, which had guaranteed abortion rights nationwide.
Texas' ban includes an exception allowing the procedure if, in a doctor's "reasonable medical judgment," the mother has a "life-threatening condition" related to the pregnancy that puts her at risk of death or "substantial impairment of a major bodily function."
Yup, but they don't want to make that call as to what is "reasonable" because of the threat of being sued by an activist group and fined $100k. And certainly won't make a decision quickly. Mom needs to be about to die.
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/17/12198827 ... ortion-ban
The first Court ruled against her and she went out of state.
Texas Supreme Court ultimately ruled in favor of her, but didn't leave it to doctor. Had to go to court.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/12/07 ... n-lawsuit/
Recent article re what the status is in Texas:
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/stat ... 41925.html
More generally, this is what is happening:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... le/2814017
I understand all that....perfectly well.
I am focusing solely on the Biden ad. My argument was clear, she miscarried, fetus with no heartbeat...at that point, there was nothing to save, other than the wife of potential medical risk. Seems the medical term would no longer be an 'abortion' since there is no 'termination' of life taking place. His ad would have far more standing if he chose your cite, that went to the supreme court....where there was life still in the womb.
Damned shame the fear of legal (and maybe insurance), over common sense, overrules medical judgement.
I disagree. This hesitancy to act is directly due to the Dobbs decision and Texas legislature.
As a fan points out, what you say is a rational and correct, the doctors undoubtedly thought so too, and yet they delayed action so as to get confirmation and support given the explicit threats of litigation in Texas. And that's the pattern, given the law and given the threats.
It seems crazy to the rational, but unless this is the doctor's and woman's call solely together, or solely the woman's, as to what is "reasonable", not courts and right wing activists and politicians, these delays will occur over and over and over again.
Meanwhile, any delay expands risk dramatically...sometimes you get lucky and delay doesn't cause any damage...it did this time.
Note, it wasn't that the medical judgment wasn't clear and defensible, it's that a doctor can go to jail, face a fine, lose license if some right wing politician or judge says they disagree...not other doctors, zealots.
Dobbs was a terrible decision and directly leads to these outcomes given the capture of state legislatures by zealots. It was highly predictable. But the zealots cheered.
Expect lots of such ads as these situations are occurring in every state with draconian abortion laws that criminalize medical procedures.
The GOP deserves to lose election after election until we get women's reproductive rights restored. That obviously means that Trump needs to lose, The Dems need to win both House and Senate, or these legislatures in these states need to be flipped or direct voting prevails in all.
Note that there are a whole lot of Republican and Independent women and many men who are personally opposed to abortion and would like to see abortions decline, but are appalled by this decision and the overreach of zealots. Some of them are going to vote D to correct this problem as their representatives are not budging otherwise.