Hobart 2024

[oldbartman]

What a mess
So much for guys are going to come out and play 4 full quarters
I know there’s been a lot of debate on this site about the coaching.
I have a simple question in the 10 + years that Raymond has been the HC how many “quality” wins have they had???
Maybe 5-6??? And that’s generous
They are absolutely not competitive with top 30 teams
I know there has been a ton of commentary about the wealth of talented young players …
Are there really?
Patterson , Datellas , Shea
Who else?
Before you answer think about it from a coach’s POV
In the last 10 years how many Hobart players do you think other D1 coaches are thinking “ how did we miss this kid?”
Very few if any
Which of our starters could have started at Syracuse? Cornell? Michigan ? Georgetown?
Very few if any
We continue to have a pretty solid D3 roster
We don’t offer enough financially , academically , facilities etc..to attract he talent that will be competitive
We are a slightly better Wagner, Bonnies , Canisius etc..
Trip to Italy does not solve any of that

I'm going to differ a bit with you Catch N Shoot. Albeit in a limited way. Hobart finally has athletic scholarships. We have 3 for the '24 roster, 6 for the '25 roster, 9 for the '26 roster and...finally.. the full 12.6 for the '27 roster. This combined with merit aid puts Hobart on a bit more equal footing. As far as academics are concerned, it depends on what the player is looking for. It certainly is hard to compete with big name schools. The idea of riding the bench at Michigan certainly isn't appealing to me. But I'm not a 16-17 year old recruit.

I agree. We can recruit against any of the A10 schools except Richmond some of the patriot league but not the major conferences. But that does not make us have d3 players. I will tell you that top level recruits are not going to come to sit behind 5th years and seniors who are not producing. Or come when we are not able to finish games. Recruits watch records and it matters.

Recruits also read Fanlax and other websites. Especially if they are getting to the point of choosing between schools A,B, or C. Right now, with the comments on this thread, it should be interesting on the recruiting front going forward. My guess is whomever is coaching will have to make significant offers to potential recruits to change the trajectory of the program. May not be a bad thing...

[ShortStickStatesmen]

I am not sure I understand any of your response (aside from some Hobart history). In short - all coaches need to change, adapt, do things differently. Or go.

I've written this before - Hobart is never going to out-recruit schools with: higher caliber academics, higher caliber lacrosse, larger student bodies, more favorable locations. SO - coaches need to squeeze the most out of the gritty, underdog players they get and beat other teams as a team. How about as a WHOLE team. Maybe these are not the coaches to do it.

Is Brundage to blame for chokes in 2016? I’m not sure there is more than one source of the stress and anxiety the kids have among the staff. Obviously fisher needs to find a new industry after SJU and this.

Would you want Brundage out or could you see him stepping up in an internal transition is why I bring this up. It’s a serious question if discussions were had. So what’s his role in this?

The leadership part was to front run any “he’s turning them into great citizens so earning his keep” defense. I doubt you’d see kids who choke like this have dramatically superior emotional quotient in a fast paced volatile real life setting and I don’t see dramatically better other datapoints to show he’s done anything special to mold them into men. it’s higher ed and they don’t run like a business so guys can hang it o their jobs and ride a unit into the ground for their own pension. I doubt given what we witness in live action he’s doing anything to make them better off the field. But I’m sure he’s selling pitch internally to support his job.

(The other note was to make sure folks knew the guy who does support Raymond and sells a story on here didn’t graduate and ratted his team out before the playoffs and then talks character and toughness here without having a HWS degree or the character to go to the teammates directly in the issue)

I'd be interested in who you are talking about, coward. Hiding behind an alias. You know nothing about the locker room or the coaching situation. Your judge of character is completely wrong. Either put your first and last name on here like I do or shut the heck up. Calling for someone's job when you don't know the person is a coward move. I hope like hell that you were one of the best Hobart lacrosse players because if you weren't you shouldn't ever speak about someone else's job and or the team again.

Coop, do you think the criticisms on this thread are way off? The team is 3-6 and has a few bad losses. There is a a constant with this program the last few years of letting victory slip away when they clearly had the game in hand. If you think the program is doing well and headed in the right direction, then we disagree. The points raised on this thread are legitimate imho. What do you think?

@FarFromGeneva Brundage wasn’t there in ‘16. But you do seem pretty tapped into the locker room events so I’ll stay tuned for more takes. I’m here just to keep the facts straight. Roll Bart

[Farfromgeneva]

Shame on the coaches for not putting the reserves in when the game was well out of reach. What's the point of keeping starters in there against Richmond's 3 and 4th lines, punishment? There were plenty of guys on the sideline who I'm sure had some pep in their step. Running the 1st line to death is not a formula for winning games.

Why were Pedicine and Knox out there late in massive leads against Siena a few years back. Game management has been a tortious for a decade. How many games have you asked why we are out coached in the second half and no adjustments are made? No adjustment was made in UMass by acknowledgement. This isn’t new it’s the same problem is always been, no iterative adjustments or inward reflection at all.

[Farfromgeneva]

For those who didnt see the game, look at the shots, SOG, and turnovers for our offense. When you see that, you might say, well I am sure that our coaches knew that and made adjustments. Then look at the number of players on the roster sheet under the number 25 (typically offense). For example, Herlihy had 6 shots, zero on goal and a turnover. I was watching on TV so didnt see all the shots but there were a few that looked like from about 25 yards that went nowhere near the goal. Our attack combined had about 15 turnovers. The stat sheet hurts more than watching the game honestly. Well, on to Saint Joe’s, unfortunately probably without seeing one thing change.

Does it hurt more than using a suoer scarce political chip and limited cash resources to get him into the mgt program on a second look and the associated cost when a couple of graduated long sticks could’ve used that chip wanting to come back and/or maybe keep Amoruso around?

Not everyone gets into the mgt program it has to stand on its own. Some kids didn’t get accepted. Some get accepted with support on a second look and others didn’t. That’s a fact not some moral agenda or whatever nonsense one angry boy wants to apply to me.

[Farfromgeneva]

What a mess
So much for guys are going to come out and play 4 full quarters
I know there’s been a lot of debate on this site about the coaching.
I have a simple question in the 10 + years that Raymond has been the HC how many “quality” wins have they had???
Maybe 5-6??? And that’s generous
They are absolutely not competitive with top 30 teams
I know there has been a ton of commentary about the wealth of talented young players …
Are there really?
Patterson , Datellas , Shea
Who else?
Before you answer think about it from a coach’s POV
In the last 10 years how many Hobart players do you think other D1 coaches are thinking “ how did we miss this kid?”
Very few if any
Which of our starters could have started at Syracuse? Cornell? Michigan ? Georgetown?
Very few if any
We continue to have a pretty solid D3 roster
We don’t offer enough financially , academically , facilities etc..to attract he talent that will be competitive
We are a slightly better Wagner, Bonnies , Canisius etc..
Trip to Italy does not solve any of that

I'm going to differ a bit with you Catch N Shoot. Albeit in a limited way. Hobart finally has athletic scholarships. We have 3 for the '24 roster, 6 for the '25 roster, 9 for the '26 roster and...finally.. the full 12.6 for the '27 roster. This combined with merit aid puts Hobart on a bit more equal footing. As far as academics are concerned, it depends on what the player is looking for. It certainly is hard to compete with big name schools. The idea of riding the bench at Michigan certainly isn't appealing to me. But I'm not a 16-17 year old recruit.

I agree. We can recruit against any of the A10 schools except Richmond some of the patriot league but not the major conferences. But that does not make us have d3 players. I will tell you that top level recruits are not going to come to sit behind 5th years and seniors who are not producing. Or come when we are not able to finish games. Recruits watch records and it matters.

Archer, Patterson and Picard were all highly approached by Richmond we got two or three. They wanted Chase Hallam as well. Richmond and Boston U along with OSU mattering has changed the recurring landscape massively for Bart along with some schools that’ll take on anyone like St Joes now and Marquette under Amplo and Torpey at HPU. It’s squeezed the middle
Hobart lived on while in the Patriot and ECACs

[Farfromgeneva]

I am not sure I understand any of your response (aside from some Hobart history). In short - all coaches need to change, adapt, do things differently. Or go.

I've written this before - Hobart is never going to out-recruit schools with: higher caliber academics, higher caliber lacrosse, larger student bodies, more favorable locations. SO - coaches need to squeeze the most out of the gritty, underdog players they get and beat other teams as a team. How about as a WHOLE team. Maybe these are not the coaches to do it.

Is Brundage to blame for chokes in 2016? I’m not sure there is more than one source of the stress and anxiety the kids have among the staff. Obviously fisher needs to find a new industry after SJU and this.

Would you want Brundage out or could you see him stepping up in an internal transition is why I bring this up. It’s a serious question if discussions were had. So what’s his role in this?

The leadership part was to front run any “he’s turning them into great citizens so earning his keep” defense. I doubt you’d see kids who choke like this have dramatically superior emotional quotient in a fast paced volatile real life setting and I don’t see dramatically better other datapoints to show he’s done anything special to mold them into men. it’s higher ed and they don’t run like a business so guys can hang it o their jobs and ride a unit into the ground for their own pension. I doubt given what we witness in live action he’s doing anything to make them better off the field. But I’m sure he’s selling pitch internally to support his job.

(The other note was to make sure folks knew the guy who does support Raymond and sells a story on here didn’t graduate and ratted his team out before the playoffs and then talks character and toughness here without having a HWS degree or the character to go to the teammates directly in the issue)

I'd be interested in who you are talking about, coward. Hiding behind an alias. You know nothing about the locker room or the coaching situation. Your judge of character is completely wrong. Either put your first and last name on here like I do or shut the heck up. Calling for someone's job when you don't know the person is a coward move. I hope like hell that you were one of the best Hobart lacrosse players because if you weren't you shouldn't ever speak about someone else's job and or the team again.

Coop, do you think the criticisms on this thread are way off? The team is 3-6 and has a few bad losses. There is a a constant with this program the last few years of letting victory slip away when they clearly had the game in hand. If you think the program is doing well and headed in the right direction, then we disagree. The points raised on this thread are legitimate imho. What do you think?

@FarFromGeneva Brundage wasn’t there in ‘16. But you do seem pretty tapped into the locker room events so I’ll stay tuned for more takes. I’m here just to keep the facts straight. Roll Bart

Yeah that was rhetorical because someone was saying “the staff” and if a move is made on Raymond is it reasonable or smart to elevate Brundage or hold him accountable for the last few years as welll? I don’t know that answer. Though in hindsight I may have been thinking of the 2019 chokes. Or 2017 NEC final which wasn’t a blown lead but an embarrassing loss to a team we ran off the field a month earlier.

I’m far from perfect and deeply flawed. Spent 2.5yrs on social probation and was an underground member of a org but was lucky enough to stay involved and had kept up with a prior dean (long gone-named Clarence Butler) well beyond graduating amongst others. I’m just more concerned about the college existing in 25yrs independent of Cornell’s ownership and lacrosse is so tied into the campus identity this is too important to not hold folks accountable. 40yrs of not doing so has led to a 25 rank drop in US news rankings and our endowment result for two decades has to be in the bottom 5% of colleges in the US.

We’ve got a ton of under performers and ages of not holding folks accountable. Any adult would look at the situation and say “this guy can’t run the lacrosse program anymore” as a simple clean observation.

Hanna wasn’t held accountable. They brought Gearan back whose tenure is embarrassing and I love seeing and talking with that guy but I wouldn’t hire him for any business I’ve been associated with. Maybe the “Hobart family” of business needs to deploy some tough love.

And the next HC needs to be in Tom Drennans office working with him regarding the mgt program. Not just come when you need something.

BTW the last time I saw much fight in Bart was 16. Long live Jackson Brown.

[SMAIN]

I see St. Joe over UMass by 5. Next week should be interesting. Also, does Hobart ever arrive the day before a long distance game? Geneva to Richmond is quite a haul.

[brodad]

I see St. Joe over UMass by 5. Next week should be interesting. Also, does Hobart ever arrive the day before a long distance game? Geneva to Richmond is quite a haul.

They traveled most of the distance to Richmond on Thursday.

[man:down]

I did not catch the Richmond game but from what I heard, that team was very very good - maybe more organized and polished than any other team Hobart has faced this year? So that was going to be a long shot. Any slopiness or coaching misses just made it even harder.

If you look at the team's record getting worse over the last few years you have to also look at their schedule and the competition in the A10. Only one "gimme" as opposed to 3+ in the old NEC. These boys should be applauded by washed up players like us for grinding all year and buying in to the system and continuing to work hard. I can't even imagine how hard that must be without also reading our collective nonsense. I have been an unconditional fan for years so that is where I will focus my energy. I hope they clear that St Joe's hurdle this year - it has been a tough one. But if they don't, I hope the players keep their heads up. Hip Hobart Forever.

[Ketch]

I did not catch the Richmond game but from what I heard, that team was very very good - maybe more organized and polished than any other team Hobart has faced this year? So that was going to be a long shot. Any slopiness or coaching misses just made it even harder.

If you look at the team's record getting worse over the last few years you have to also look at their schedule and the competition in the A10. Only one "gimme" as opposed to 3+ in the old NEC. These boys should be applauded by washed up players like us for grinding all year and buying in to the system and continuing to work hard. I can't even imagine how hard that must be without also reading our collective nonsense. I have been an unconditional fan for years so that is where I will focus my energy. I hope they clear that St Joe's hurdle this year - it has been a tough one. But if they don't, I hope the players keep their heads up. Hip Hobart Forever.

I did not catch much of this game (only the end of the second quarter, ugh) because of a work obligation, but what I saw was a very, very skilled Richmond team. Still think that we should have put up a little more of a fight, though. Are they really 21-8 better? I guess the score says what the score says.... I will of course continue to support the team, but just the same, I won't be dedicating the hours to drive up to Geneva for the St. Joe's game as I think we all know what to expect. Just hoping for a glimmer of hope at some point.

[oldbartman]

To put a tiny bit of perspective on the Richmond score (21-8), St. Bonnies lost to them 18-9. They did manage to score 4 on the Spiders in the first half vs. our 2. The team and staff really need to change things up. If not, it's the definition of insanity....Here's hoping for some change.

[FMUBart]

I did not catch the Richmond game but from what I heard, that team was very very good - maybe more organized and polished than any other team Hobart has faced this year? So that was going to be a long shot. Any slopiness or coaching misses just made it even harder.

If you look at the team's record getting worse over the last few years you have to also look at their schedule and the competition in the A10. Only one "gimme" as opposed to 3+ in the old NEC. These boys should be applauded by washed up players like us for grinding all year and buying in to the system and continuing to work hard. I can't even imagine how hard that must be without also reading our collective nonsense. I have been an unconditional fan for years so that is where I will focus my energy. I hope they clear that St Joe's hurdle this year - it has been a tough one. But if they don't, I hope the players keep their heads up. Hip Hobart Forever.

Don’t know how I could disagree more with this post…Richmond is a very very good team??!! What are they ranked? Who have they beaten? Did I expect a Hobart win against the Spiders? No. But who could fathom 14-2 at half? Hobart never showed up. I know the team “really likes each other” and there is “strong leadership” but how about posting a few W’s like us washed up guys did during our tenures? Time for a change…

[man:down]

I get it - but therein lies the issue "...but how about posting a few W’s like us washed up guys did [against other small (D3) schools in not-so-desirable locations that could not recruit better players than we could], during our tenures?" I just feel bad for the players.

[Laxgunea]

I feel terrible for the players too. And for the program. We thought last year would be an offensive rebuilding year, but a strong defensive year with returning seniors. But the strong D didn't materialize. We knew this year would be a defensive rebuilding year. And it is. Maybe next year brings the two together. Looking forward to having some injured guys back. Considine has been a huge loss. Cade Dino should be back. I hope Begina re-emerge as he started last year. We'll have two strong faceoff guys again. And I expect the D to gel with fewer collapses.
But given all of that, it's time to let some bench guys run. At least on field, we need to do something different. No chance against St Joe's as we have been playing for the last 5 quarters. If we play as we did in first 3 quarters against UMass, or 1st half against SU or Michigan, then it's possible. So the question is how coaching gets them over the slump. And that is the question for the future too.

[FMUBart]

man:down, Hate to have to give you a Hobart lax history lesson, but during my 4 years we beat some "small schools" like #1 ranked UNC, #1 ranked SU, and my last year W's over Cornell(by 12 goals) Penn State(by 10 goals), Hofstra(by a lot), Loyola, SU...so, yeah, when you get blown out by a league opponent, it's time for a change..

[oldbartman]

man:down, Hate to have to give you a Hobart lax history lesson, but during my 4 years we beat some "small schools" like #1 ranked UNC, #1 ranked SU, and my last year W's over Cornell(by 12 goals) Penn State(by 10 goals), Hofstra(by a lot), Loyola, SU...so, yeah, when you get blown out by a league opponent, it's time for a change..

FMU I didn't know you're such a young guy...you played during the "great run"!

[FMUBart]

FMU I didn't know you're such a young guy...you played during the "great run"!
[/quote]

Young?

I guess Hobart was able to "out-recruit" Cornell, SU, UNC, UMass, Loyola, Penn St back in the 80's, haha!

[oldbartman]

FMU I didn't know you're such a young guy...you played during the "great run"!

Young?

I guess Hobart was able to "out-recruit" Cornell, SU, UNC, UMass, Loyola, Penn St back in the 80's, haha!
[/quote]
You're younger than me.....

[SMAIN]

Hobart was able to recruit back in those days because they won and their was a chance of a National Title and a ring ( I guess they got a ring). Of course the winning had to start first before better players came. And had some outstanding coaches that started it all.

[eldeststatesman]

I dont shade people from IL often, but when I do its because they clearly dont know ball... The fact that Patterson isnt listed as a top 40 freshman is criminal. More pts than many kids on worse teams that are on the list ... sad! If somebody knows Kevin Brown from IL ... feel free to send me his # so i can handle this 'off-line'.

Excited to watch the statesman compete this weekend!

Hip Hip