Tewaaraton Award 2024

[Chousnake]

Shellenberger, Malone, and Brandau are my top three right now and I don't think it's all that close. Combination of talent, production, and importance to their respective teams.

O'Neill is basically out of the running until further notice. I'm not even sure he's the best player on his own team this season.

Kirst had been uncharacteristically quiet prior to this weekend's game. He can make a run, but he's got some ground to make up, IMO. Especially because both he and his team were outplayed by Malone + PSU when those two teams met head-to-head.

By that analysis, Brandau has some significant ground to make up too. Malone outscored Brandau 9 to 3 when PSU beat Yale earlier this season. That kind of analysis has always been perplexing to me though. It's an individual award, not a team award - or at least that's what it should be. I don't understand awarding the best player award based on team performance. But that's the way it's mostly been unless an individual is head and shoulders above everybody else, like Lyle Thompson. If Virginia beat Duke last year in the semis, Shellenberger probably gets the award over O'neill. And if Cornell got to the final four, Kirst probably wins it. Makes no sense to me.

[Suitcase]

Best player( PKav) on the best team didn’t win it last year.and by most metrics was as deserving as anyone else.

[Chousnake]

Best player( PKav) on the best team didn’t win it last year.and by most metrics was as deserving as anyone else.

I didn't say the award went to the best player on the best team. I said that team performance plays a large role in who wins and I'm not sure that is appropriate. Last season, it was pretty much determined before the tournament that it was a three man race among O'Neill, Kirst and Schellenberger and that the award would go to the player whose team went the furthest. And it did. And that's usually the way the award is determined. There are a handful of candidates and the award goes to the player among those candidates whose team performs the best in the tournament.

[joewillie78]

My updated list;

1. Cormier
2. Kirst
3. Brandau
4. Kavanaugh
5. Shellenberger
6. Degnon
7. O'Neil
8. Spallina
9. Colletti
10. King

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[coda]

My updated list;

1. Cormier
2. Kirst
3. Brandau
4. Kavanaugh
5. Shellenberger
6. Degnon
7. O'Neil
8. Spallina
9. Colletti
10. King

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Cormier has to go. Limited role, he is a finisher. I am not sure he is a better inside presence than Teirnan this year. I would have TJ Malone and Kirst at the top of my list.

[joewillie78]

My updated list;

1. Cormier
2. Kirst
3. Brandau
4. Kavanaugh
5. Shellenberger
6. Degnon
7. O'Neil
8. Spallina
9. Colletti
10. King

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Cormier has to go. Limited role, he is a finisher. I am not sure he is a better inside presence than Teirnan this year. I would have TJ Malone and Kirst at the top of my list.

Ahh yes, sorry, Malone should be on the list, probably 3 or 4. My bad.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[Finster]

My updated list;

1. Cormier
2. Kirst
3. Brandau
4. Kavanaugh
5. Shellenberger
6. Degnon
7. O'Neil
8. Spallina
9. Colletti
10. King

Gobigred
Joewillie78

If ever there was a year when a TEAM’s NCAA performance might FULLY tilt the Teewaraton Award, this could be the year.

I don’t really see any player running away with the Tewey right now. Just when you think one guy stands out, his next game he’s relatively quiet.

[coda]

My updated list;

1. Cormier
2. Kirst
3. Brandau
4. Kavanaugh
5. Shellenberger
6. Degnon
7. O'Neil
8. Spallina
9. Colletti
10. King

Gobigred
Joewillie78

If ever there was a year when a TEAM’s NCAA performance might FULLY tilt the Teewaraton Award, this could be the year.

I don’t really see any player running away with the Tewey right now. Just when you think one guy stands out, his next game he’s relatively quiet.

I think it is because the "big names" have been relatively quiet this year. We were all prepared to see the race between Kirst, Kavanaugh, Shelly, and Oneill. Duke has underperformed and the offense has been erratic. Shelly been solid, but hasnt stood out. ND is better, but the midfield has made them less reliant on the Kavanaughs. I would put Pisano on the list (ALbany). He is probably the best Pole in the country and nobody is talking about him. He is second in the country in caused turnovers, 7 goals, and 4 assists. Zap will garner more attention. I have Malone at #1 right now.

[Finster]

My updated list;

1. Cormier
2. Kirst
3. Brandau
4. Kavanaugh
5. Shellenberger
6. Degnon
7. O'Neil
8. Spallina
9. Colletti
10. King

Gobigred
Joewillie78

If ever there was a year when a TEAM’s NCAA performance might FULLY tilt the Teewaraton Award, this could be the year.

I don’t really see any player running away with the Tewey right now. Just when you think one guy stands out, his next game he’s relatively quiet.

I think it is because the "big names" have been relatively quiet this year. We were all prepared to see the race between Kirst, Kavanaugh, Shelly, and Oneill. Duke has underperformed and the offense has been erratic. Shelly been solid, but hasnt stood out. ND is better, but the midfield has made them less reliant on the Kavanaughs. I would put Pisano on the list (ALbany). He is probably the best Pole in the country and nobody is talking about him. He is second in the country in caused turnovers, 7 goals, and 4 assists. Zap will garner more attention. I have Malone at #1 right now.

Duke has to be wondering how they could drop *all* of 4 goals on Cuse in the no-elements Dome after winning 65% at the FO dot, while Cornell strokes 18 on a cold rainy night game where Cuse’s FOGO wins 77% of his scrums.


Nothing makes sense anymore.

[joewillie78]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[youthathletics]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

as a whole, Duke midfield < Cornell Midfield. And Cornell Attack > Duke Attack.

[Finster]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Each weekend I laugh at the thought of you assembling the Top 20. It’s become very difficult. This game will have to make you ponder really hard where to put Syracuse. Penn State held you to 9, Penn held Cornell to 10. We ‘held’ the Big Red to 18.

We only have two more regular season games to prove ourselves, and so I don’t know the impact of this one. I don’t envy you.

[joewillie78]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

Each weekend I laugh at the thought of you assembling the Top 20. It’s become very difficult. This game will have to make you ponder really hard where to put Syracuse. Penn State held you to 9, Penn held Cornell to 10. We ‘held’ the Big Red to 18.

We only have two more regular season games to prove ourselves, and so I don’t know the impact of this one. I don’t envy you.

Brutal! Alot will obviously depend on this upcoming weekends results (which I'm sure will be crazy).

Some of the toughest teams to slot right now are :

Cornell
Duke
Army
Syracuse
Maryland

Gobigred
Joewillie78

[coda]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

as a whole, Duke midfield < Cornell Midfield. And Cornell Attack > Duke Attack.

I would not go that far. Duke Attack > Cornell Attack. I think Duke is still trying to figure out what there are on offense and how to get the pieces together. Its the team you want to play in the tournament, if you are someone like Bryant. It also the team you dont want to see if you are are someone like ND or UVa, because they are very capable of putting it together at any point.

[Chousnake]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

as a whole, Duke midfield < Cornell Midfield. And Cornell Attack > Duke Attack.

I would not go that far. Duke Attack > Cornell Attack. I think Duke is still trying to figure out what there are on offense and how to get the pieces together. Its the team you want to play in the tournament, if you are someone like Bryant. It also the team you dont want to see if you are are someone like ND or UVa, because they are very capable of putting it together at any point.

I know things change from week to week and even game to game this season, but I have a hard time understanding how you can make that claim with such assurance when Cornell's attack just put up 18 points vs Syracuse and Duke's attack put up 4 points against the same team 10 days ago. And Cornell's midfield put up 11 points vs Duke midfield's donut vs Syracuse. From reading your posts, you spend quite a bit of time on comparisons for rankings and tourney bids, so this is somewhat surprising coming from you. Duke has a big edge vs Cornell at FO and G (and defense), and you are likely right that a team would more likely face Cornell than Duke in the tournament as of today, but that's not because Duke has a perceived better attack and midfield.

[coda]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

as a whole, Duke midfield < Cornell Midfield. And Cornell Attack > Duke Attack.

I would not go that far. Duke Attack > Cornell Attack. I think Duke is still trying to figure out what there are on offense and how to get the pieces together. Its the team you want to play in the tournament, if you are someone like Bryant. It also the team you dont want to see if you are are someone like ND or UVa, because they are very capable of putting it together at any point.

I know things change from week to week and even game to game this season, but I have a hard time understanding how you can make that claim with such assurance when Cornell's attack just put up 18 points vs Syracuse and Duke's attack put up 4 points against the same team 10 days ago. And Cornell's midfield put up 11 points vs Duke midfield's donut vs Syracuse. From reading your posts, you spend quite a bit of time on comparisons for rankings and tourney bids, so this is somewhat surprising coming from you. Duke has a big edge vs Cornell at FO and G (and defense), and you are likely right that a team would more likely face Cornell than Duke in the tournament as of today, but that's not because Duke has a perceived better attack and midfield.

Because Duke has a proven attack. 1 game does not change that. ONeill, Dyson, amd Zawaada is probably the most talented and proven attack in the county (as individual players). The coaches have not gotten everything out of them, but Cornell attack is not in the same league. I like Firth, he is going to be really good, but he wouldnt start at Duke. Neither would Goldstein.

[BigTurn]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

as a whole, Duke midfield < Cornell Midfield. And Cornell Attack > Duke Attack.

I would not go that far. Duke Attack > Cornell Attack. I think Duke is still trying to figure out what there are on offense and how to get the pieces together. Its the team you want to play in the tournament, if you are someone like Bryant. It also the team you dont want to see if you are are someone like ND or UVa, because they are very capable of putting it together at any point.

I know things change from week to week and even game to game this season, but I have a hard time understanding how you can make that claim with such assurance when Cornell's attack just put up 18 points vs Syracuse and Duke's attack put up 4 points against the same team 10 days ago. And Cornell's midfield put up 11 points vs Duke midfield's donut vs Syracuse. From reading your posts, you spend quite a bit of time on comparisons for rankings and tourney bids, so this is somewhat surprising coming from you. Duke has a big edge vs Cornell at FO and G (and defense), and you are likely right that a team would more likely face Cornell than Duke in the tournament as of today, but that's not because Duke has a perceived better attack and midfield.

Because Duke has a proven attack. 1 game does not change that. ONeill, Dyson, amd Zawaada is probably the most talented and proven attack in the county (as individual players). The coaches have not gotten everything out of them, but Cornell attack is not in the same league. I like Firth, he is going to be really good, but he wouldnt start at Duke. Neither would Goldstein.

You’re delusional if you don’t think Kirst and Long stack up against oneill and zawada. I’ll give you Dyson as a finisher over Goldstein, but Dyson rarely creates for himself whereas Goldstein often can.

To my eye, Cornell has the 2nd or 3rd best starting 6 behind ND/UVA.

[Hoxwurth]

Both Duke and UVA are loaded. Let’s see who differentiates this year.

So far the answer has been Notre Dame, who seems to have had good luck in the injury department the past two years. To to form, Duke has been erratic in the first half of the season, but I'm confident they'll straighten themselves out before playing UVA.

For what it's worth, Sam King doesn't get enough recognition. He does more with less than the other Ivy studs.

[coda]

Weird. After watching what I thought was the BEST defensive game I've seen a team play , this year, when they held DUKE to FOUR, that someone would tell me Cornell will hang 18 on that same team, I would have looked at them like they had 4 heads.

I know Cornells offense and attack is one of the best on the country, but that's DUKE being held to FOUR.

Crazy year, and it's sure to get crazier.

Gobigred
Joewillie78

as a whole, Duke midfield < Cornell Midfield. And Cornell Attack > Duke Attack.

I would not go that far. Duke Attack > Cornell Attack. I think Duke is still trying to figure out what there are on offense and how to get the pieces together. Its the team you want to play in the tournament, if you are someone like Bryant. It also the team you dont want to see if you are are someone like ND or UVa, because they are very capable of putting it together at any point.

I know things change from week to week and even game to game this season, but I have a hard time understanding how you can make that claim with such assurance when Cornell's attack just put up 18 points vs Syracuse and Duke's attack put up 4 points against the same team 10 days ago. And Cornell's midfield put up 11 points vs Duke midfield's donut vs Syracuse. From reading your posts, you spend quite a bit of time on comparisons for rankings and tourney bids, so this is somewhat surprising coming from you. Duke has a big edge vs Cornell at FO and G (and defense), and you are likely right that a team would more likely face Cornell than Duke in the tournament as of today, but that's not because Duke has a perceived better attack and midfield.

Because Duke has a proven attack. 1 game does not change that. ONeill, Dyson, amd Zawaada is probably the most talented and proven attack in the county (as individual players). The coaches have not gotten everything out of them, but Cornell attack is not in the same league. I like Firth, he is going to be really good, but he wouldnt start at Duke. Neither would Goldstein.

You’re delusional if you don’t think Kirst and Long stack up against oneill and zawada. I’ll give you Dyson as a finisher over Goldstein, but Dyson rarely creates for himself whereas Goldstein often can.

To my eye, Cornell has the 2nd or 3rd best starting 6 behind ND/UVA.

Kirst certainly stacks up. Long would be a welcome addition at Duke. I do think he would likely play middie there. He seems very comfortable playing any where on the field.

[The Orfling]

Both Duke and UVA are loaded. Let’s see who differentiates this year.

So far the answer has been Notre Dame, who seems to have had good luck in the injury department the past two years. To to form, Duke has been erratic in the first half of the season, but I'm confident they'll straighten themselves out before playing UVA.

For what it's worth, Sam King doesn't get enough recognition. He does more with less than the other Ivy studs.

Sam King is awesome. He was one of the biggest snubs on Inside Lacrosse's "top 50 player" pre-season list. It's going to be tough to get an invite to the Ivy tournament this year with 5 very good teams (Penn, Cornell, Princeton, Yale, Harvard) fighting it out for four slots, but Harvard could knock off anybody if they get into the ILT and King would get more exposure/eyeballs.