THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[steel_hop]

How can anyone claim Daniels doesn't support the program when the Cordish center was built in his time as president? It's not his job to run the program. The issues with the team are the fault of the coaches, period. And the decision to replace the coach falls on the AD, who needs to be pressured by the donors.

I think Petro's time as a coach has passed him by. He has done a great job in his career overall, but it is time for a change.

Because Presidents at Universities that turn down 10+ million dollar donations to build buildings on your campus tend not to be presidents very long.

He could have easily said that they didn't want to separate the lacrosse program from the rest of the athletic teams. I'm not sure what you expect a university president to do for an athletic team when he is busy running three different campuses that encompass the largest research institution in the world (by funding).

I understand that view but if Daniel's says no on the Cordish Center, I can just imagine the next time Daniel's calls to ask for money from Cordish.

Daniels: Steve-O! It's the RDawg.
Cordish: Hi Ronald. What's do you need?
Daniels: look I know I turned down the money for your lax building but we really need money for large statute to honor the Hopkins President that has raised the most money from Hopkins largest donor. Mickey B says hes tapped out. We are thinking big enough to replace where Gilman is today. I can write you down for what rype of 8 figure donation?
Cordish: ah....click
Daniels: hello? Hello? You still there Stevie C?

[steel_hop]

Throat. Thanks. That's what I was trying to do.

One can look at data in lots of ways and I think this is helpful. I'll note that Daniels came in 2010 so there was already a decline and has continued to drop. Whether that signals his arrival changed support for the program, I think you can say the date is mixed. Though I do know several of the D3 coaches have complained about new restrictions on bring in recruits.

Uh, you do realize that data represent one of the greatest coaching performances in the modern history of the sport, right?

Just sayin’.

DocBarrister

For the first 5-6 years. Sure. Winning at an .850+ clip is likely sustainable.

After that you are delusional to think that winning at the current rate is good much less greatest performances for a premier lax program.

[a fan]

I appreciate you jumping in here with your one talking point but try actually reading the thread next time. Someone just suggested Hopkins does not get top flight talent anymore, which is demonstrably untrue.

It is? Who are the elite players on your roster?

I can name one elite player on your 2019 roster.

[HopFan16]

I appreciate you jumping in here with your one talking point but try actually reading the thread next time. Someone just suggested Hopkins does not get top flight talent anymore, which is demonstrably untrue.

It is? Who are the elite players on your roster?

I can name one elite player on your 2019 roster.

You are really missing the point here, huh?

What that person was arguing—and what I was arguing against—was that Hopkins is struggling to compete with schools like Duke and Yale and Virginia etc. for recruits. And that is factually incorrect. You seem to be willfully ignoring what the discussion was actually about to talk about something completely different. Thank you for your input, as always.

2018 class: Ranked #5
2017 class: Ranked #8
2016 class: Ranked #5

2019 class: Ranked #4
2020 class: Ranked #1

Hopkins is getting more than its fair share of "elite" recruits who if they weren't playing for the Blue Jays, they'd be at Duke, UVA, Yale, etc. If they don't end up being elite players in college, that's an entirely different discussion. But the idea that Hop "can't get top flight talent" is bogus, and that's what I took issue with.

[a fan]

I’m not ignoring anything.

You’re bringing IL in as evidence? Evidence of what? That they have no clue what they’re talking about?

What I’m talking about are elite players on campus, playing for Hopkins. Don’t care about IL, or how some kid did in high school.

And what I’m telling you is obvious. You don’t have enough elite players on your roster to make the final four.

Other teams do, and that’s why they’re still playing.

This is not a complicated sport, no matter how hard you try and complicate things

[FannOLax]

And what I’m telling you is obvious. You don’t have enough elite players on your roster to make the final four.

Other teams do, and that’s why they’re still playing.

Or is it the coaching?

[HopFan16]

I’m not ignoring anything.

You’re bringing IL in as evidence? Evidence of what? That they have no clue what they’re talking about?

What I’m talking about are elite players on campus, playing for Hopkins. Don’t care about IL, or how some kid did in high school.

And what I’m telling you is obvious. You don’t have enough elite players on your roster to make the final four.

Other teams do, and that’s why they’re still playing.

This is not a complicated sport, no matter how hard you try and complicate things

I know what you're saying, it's pretty much all you ever say. It has nothing to do with the assertion that I was responding to.

[a fan]

And what I’m telling you is obvious. You don’t have enough elite players on your roster to make the final four.

Other teams do, and that’s why they’re still playing.

Or is it the coaching?

Bill Tierney, John Desko, and Dave P are all at home watching the next round.

What’s more likely: that none of them can coach and make their players improve? Or they didn’t have enough talent on the roster to advance?

[ABV 8.3%]

And what I’m telling you is obvious. You don’t have enough elite players on your roster to make the final four.

Other teams do, and that’s why they’re still playing.

Or is it the coaching?

Bill Tierney, John Desko, and Dave P are all at home watching the next round.

What’s more likely: that none of them can coach and make their players improve? Or they didn’t have enough talent on the roster to advance?

Can't it be a little of both?

[MDlaxfan76]

This is something of a silly back and forth.

The top teams any given year undoubtedly have the ‘best’ players, collectively. Typically they also have a handful of true ‘differences makers’. Call’em ‘elite’ if you wish.

Some were recognized as ‘elite’ while still in high school, some were not, and developed later.

Some transfer in, late.

Hopkins has done inarguably well at capturing a high share of those considered widely as ‘elite’ relatively early in HS.

However, as we’ve discussed at great lengths over the years, only a few of the top high school players actually end up being in the top ‘difference makers’ in college. All the more so from early in HS, especially for goalies, FOGOs, and poles.

And some of the very best players emerge somewhat unexpectedly. Ryan Brown would be a good example of such at Hopkins.

So, the question isn’t so much whether the program attracts lots of the most sought after athletes, it’s whether the right ones in that group were selected or attracted, and how many unexpected successes emerged.

And whether the coaching and team dynamics bring out the best in each athlete, both individually and collectively.

[lagerhead]

Interesting discussion on players, and recruiting. Coaching is dependent on recruiting, developing players skill sets that you recruited, developing chemistry within the team X's and O's and. You could arguably have the best player in the country and not make the playoffs if the team isn't cohesive and does not by into the coaching philosophy. Does Petro recruit a player with skills he can coach up? Does he recruit players who will buy into his philosophy? Or as i am observing from this discussion does he recruit the highly skilled athlete that he THINKS will make his program better. The last recruit could be the best player in the pool but may not fit into the coaching philosophy. I think early recruiting led to coaches choosing the 9th grade All Star. Hopefully with EA off the table coaches can make better decisions on player personnel that will fit the program TEAM that has a chance to win the NC.

[steel_hop]

And what I’m telling you is obvious. You don’t have enough elite players on your roster to make the final four.

Other teams do, and that’s why they’re still playing.

Or is it the coaching?

Bill Tierney, John Desko, and Dave P are all at home watching the next round.

What’s more likely: that none of them can coach and make their players improve? Or they didn’t have enough talent on the roster to advance?

Again, seem to want to be obtuse on this issue. This isnt 1 year issue. This a decade long one.

First, remove Tierney from the equation. I think most Hopkins supporters would be okay if Hopkins had the same results Denver has had over the decade that Denver has had.

Over the last decade both teams have missed the tournament once but after that the results show Denver>>>>>>>>Hopkins

In the last decade, Denver has done this
1 Championship (Hopkins has 0)
5 Final Fours (Hopkins has 1)
7 Quarterfinal (Hopkins has 5)

Second, I know you like what Desko is doing but I dont have to go far to find SU lax fans that disagree. I'd imagine that Desko's seat is only slightly less hot as Petro's. I'd also imagine both are probably tied at the hip. Meaning when one of them is canned the other isnt likely far behind if improvements aren't shown.

Third, you keep arguing it is the Jimmy and Joe's. Well, Petro is the guy that controls that. If he isnt evaluating the players correctly than that's on him. Shouldnt he be held accountable for his failures?

Fourth, I find the argument that elimination of early recruiting will "save" Petro. I think hes so far gone in evaluating kids he doesnt know it anymore. The unfathomable decisions on player time over the last 3 years supports that argument. It isnt like Zinn, Newarsky and Gianclone are the first guys that shine when given time. You only have to look at Forry and Williams to see the coaches might not be seeing everything.

[QuakerSouth]

I think you might find that replacing Petro isn't going to yield better results than you've had over the last 10 years. Hopkins has made the tourney how many years in the last 10? How may Quarters? A Final? If you think you "deserve" more, well......

Someone said on here they want Hopkins to be competitive---like either final 8 or final 4 every year. That is unrealistic. UMD doing what they are doing is amazing. Being competitive and being amazing are not the same thing. This isn't 50 yrs ago, 40 yrs ago, even 30 yrs ago. To think a team can get back to those types of winning seasons is fantasy.

Lots of good points here about Hopkins ability to still recruit good players. Thats true. You'll get your share of good guys. But no more than your fair share.

Petro is not perfect; nobody is. But if you think getting rid of him will all of a sudden change your fortunes, I think you could be in for a rude awakening. Be careful what you wish for.

[Sagittarius A*]

Steel Hop is right. I think his points are hard to deny.
Starters get gobs of playing time even when they are not producing at all while backups get NADA.
Then when the backups get into the game, they often out perform the starters by a wide margin.
Zinn and Narewski didn't get into the lineup until the team was down 5-1 to UMD with their season literally on the brink. When those two came in, everything changed. Hop went on a run and won. Magic!

Giacolone didn't come in until the team was down 6-1 to ND with the season about to end. Poor guy had only seen like 5 minutes all season and then he came in cold and made ten saves down the stretch, ~.500 compared to the starter who was under .400, even as low as .250 against Penn State. Against UMD I think he had two saves. Why so long for the changes? If Narewski had just gotten into the OSU game in the 4th quarter the week before we could have won that game, gotten a home field playoff game and we'd still be playing right now. No excuse for this. Really. No excuse.

Playing time at SSDM has been incomprehensible the last few years. With all the talented polls why not give some of them a short stick and stop the bleeding. He's only tried that with one player and then hardly played him.

There's some sort of bizarre loyalty thing going on here. Coach sticks way too long with players who are liabilities for some unknown reason. Guys have to wait their turn, right? Starters deserve their chance to play no matter how over matched they are at this level.

Meanwhile, what, one Final Four a decade is now the standard? Hopkins used to be the best team in the land, now we're the fourth best team in the State of Maryland. A good year now is basically getting out of the first round of the playoffs.

This team has plenty of talent. Coach recruits very well. But he just doesn't seem to get much out the the talent he does have.
Player development issues, playing time issues, personnel decisions, schemes etc are lacking and that is what has led to the programs undeniable decline. Maybe kids don't like being screamed at either and so they don't end up reaching their potential.

I honestly believe the Jays have a very good team returning next year, a better attack unit, better midfields, better faceoffs, BETTER SSDMS!!, comparable close D, but the goalie situation is unsettled and I can't generate any enthusiasm for this coaching staff only to be disappointed time and time again. I honestly wish they would do us all a favor and just move on. They seem to always find a way to turn victory into defeat and defeat into disaster. Steel Hop is right. I don't think there's another coach in D1 who would play the players Petro plays and let the players sit that Petro sits. Maddening. Any change would be welcome right now. I'd be happy if the Ladies' Varsity coaches took over.

[Drcthru]

+1

[xxxxxxx]

Steel Hop is right. I think his points are hard to deny.
Starters get gobs of playing time even when they are not producing at all while backups get NADA.
Then when the backups get into the game, they often out perform the starters by a wide margin.
Zinn and Narewski didn't get into the lineup until the team was down 5-1 to UMD with their season literally on the brink. When those two came in, everything changed. Hop went on a run and won. Magic!

Giacolone didn't come in until the team was down 6-1 to ND with the season about to end. Poor guy had only seen like 5 minutes all season and then he came in cold and made ten saves down the stretch, ~.500 compared to the starter who was under .400, even as low as .250 against Penn State. Against UMD I think he had two saves. Why so long for the changes? If Narewski had just gotten into the OSU game in the 4th quarter the week before we could have won that game, gotten a home field playoff game and we'd still be playing right now. No excuse for this. Really. No excuse.

Playing time at SSDM has been incomprehensible the last few years. With all the talented polls why not give some of them a short stick and stop the bleeding. He's only tried that with one player and then hardly played him.

There's some sort of bizarre loyalty thing going on here. Coach sticks way too long with players who are liabilities for some unknown reason. Guys have to wait their turn, right? Starters deserve their chance to play no matter how over matched they are at this level.

Meanwhile, what, one Final Four a decade is now the standard? Hopkins used to be the best team in the land, now we're the fourth best team in the State of Maryland. A good year now is basically getting out of the first round of the playoffs.

This team has plenty of talent. Coach recruits very well. But he just doesn't seem to get much out the the talent he does have.
Player development issues, playing time issues, personnel decisions, schemes etc are lacking and that is what has led to the programs undeniable decline. Maybe kids don't like being screamed at either and so they don't end up reaching their potential.

I honestly believe the Jays have a very good team returning next year, a better attack unit, better midfields, better faceoffs, BETTER SSDMS!!, comparable close D, but the goalie situation is unsettled and I can't generate any enthusiasm for this coaching staff only to be disappointed time and time again. I honestly wish they would do us all a favor and just move on. They seem to always find a way to turn victory into defeat and defeat into disaster. Steel Hop is right. I don't think there's another coach in D1 who would play the players Petro plays and let the players sit that Petro sits. Maddening. Any change would be welcome right now. I'd be happy if the Ladies' Varsity coaches took over.

So the coaches go to practice all week and put in inferior players, then things go bad and they insert backups and they turn things around? The coaches play who they feel are the best players and ninety percent of the time they are right, sometimes a back up surprises everyone. However the best players are playing.

[wgdsr]

so the coaches go to practice all week and put in inferior players, then things go bad and they insert backups and they turn things around? The coaches play who they feel are the best players and ninety percent of the time they are right, sometimes a back up surprises everyone. However the best players are playing.

uh oh.
look out below.

[kennypowers]

How can anyone claim Daniels doesn't support the program when the Cordish center was built in his time as president? It's not his job to run the program. The issues with the team are the fault of the coaches, period. And the decision to replace the coach falls on the AD, who needs to be pressured by the donors.

I think Petro's time as a coach has passed him by. He has done a great job in his career overall, but it is time for a change.

Because Presidents at Universities that turn down 10+ million dollar donations to build buildings on your campus tend not to be presidents very long.

He could have easily said that they didn't want to separate the lacrosse program from the rest of the athletic teams. I'm not sure what you expect a university president to do for an athletic team when he is busy running three different campuses that encompass the largest research institution in the world (by funding).

I understand that view but if Daniel's says no on the Cordish Center, I can just imagine the next time Daniel's calls to ask for money from Cordish.

Daniels: Steve-O! It's the RDawg.
Cordish: Hi Ronald. What's do you need?
Daniels: look I know I turned down the money for your lax building but we really need money for large statute to honor the Hopkins President that has raised the most money from Hopkins largest donor. Mickey B says hes tapped out. We are thinking big enough to replace where Gilman is today. I can write you down for what rype of 8 figure donation?
Cordish: ah....click
Daniels: hello? Hello? You still there Stevie C?

Right, but clearly Daniels is a supporter of the lacrosse program if he had no issue separating them from the rest of the student athletes. I don't think he has cut financial support for the team either and he hasn't applied the increased academic standards that he did for the D3 programs in order to push Hopkins into the top 10 of the college rankings.....So, I'm not sure what some of the critics here want from him. Should he be at every home game or something? The school has an AD for a reason.

[DougELax]

I think you might find that replacing Petro isn't going to yield better results than you've had over the last 10 years. Hopkins has made the tourney how many years in the last 10? How may Quarters? A Final? If you think you "deserve" more, well......

Someone said on here they want Hopkins to be competitive---like either final 8 or final 4 every year. That is unrealistic. UMD doing what they are doing is amazing. Being competitive and being amazing are not the same thing. This isn't 50 yrs ago, 40 yrs ago, even 30 yrs ago. To think a team can get back to those types of winning seasons is fantasy.

Lots of good points here about Hopkins ability to still recruit good players. Thats true. You'll get your share of good guys. But no more than your fair share.

Petro is not perfect; nobody is. But if you think getting rid of him will all of a sudden change your fortunes, I think you could be in for a rude awakening. Be careful what you wish for.

So Maryland shouldn't have moved on from Cottle? Virginia from Starsia? Navy from Meade (oh wait)? While the message might not get as stale as long-term professional coaches since the kids rotate thru every four years, still a group on this board think that the coaches seem to be on auto-pilot. There have been years of questioning the use (or lack thereof) of bench strength, the construction of the roster (lack of mid-field depth for example) and the development of players over their four years.
Free the Wombat! page count

[HopFan16]

Right, but clearly Daniels is a supporter of the lacrosse program if he had no issue separating them from the rest of the student athletes. I don't think he has cut financial support for the team either and he hasn't applied the increased academic standards that he did for the D3 programs in order to push Hopkins into the top 10 of the college rankings.....So, I'm not sure what some of the critics here want from him. Should he be at every home game or something? The school has an AD for a reason.

It is total nonsense, they're just looking for someone to blame outside the program and Daniels is an easy target. Nobody has ever been able to articulate what he is or isn't doing that is harming the men's lacrosse team. It's been years of this same drivel.

Anyway, Danny Jones posted a nice message to his Instagram yesterday. I encourage everyone to read it and try to keep things in perspective:

As I sit back and reflect on how much this program has meant to me over these last 4 years it’s difficult to put it all into words. It started off as little boy’s dream from Baldwin to wear Hopkins across his chest and 14 years later that very same kid got to live out his dream. I’m forever grateful to have competed under the best coaching staff in the country. As a group you all challenged me every day, supported me, were there for me during tough times, and most importantly always had my back. In the recruiting meeting you promised my family that you would make me into the the best person, student, and player that I could be. You all kept your promise and for that my family and I are forever grateful. To all my teammates that I had the privilege of playing with I can’t thank you all enough for giving me the thing I always wanted, being apart of a brotherhood. You guys know how much I hate being alone because I’m an only child so whether you like it our not you all got me for life. This place will forever have my heart. What this program is, is something that can only be understood by those who have garnered the Black and Blue and the Wings on their helmets.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxiod8Anrys ... to3f031boz

You can watch a couple incoming freshman Jays on Lax Sports Network today at 5pm: Culver (Brett Handsor, Johnny Cohen) play Academy of the New Church (Hunter Jaronski).