Maryland 2024

[Finster]

I’m surprised we aren’t hearing more from Thomas Gravino. I saw him play last year and obviously being from upstate New York playing at a public high school didn’t get the publicity of a Duffy or Millon, but from what I saw, equally capable.

[youthathletics]

Either they aren't getting as many talented guys, or they aren't doing as good a job developing them, or both.

.... you left out that parity is leveling the playing field, for the top programs. For instance a team like Army likley has zero 5 star, much less 4 star recruits on the field. IMO, their consistency with coaching staff and adaptation to the changes in the game have developed the players to compete. I'd argue Reppert adapted to his 'BIG" offense which forced long dodges and long slides, opening the field, Then Benson with essentially 6 attackman moving the ball so fast that defenses struggles to recover.

Is the offense the only problem? No. It's not WHY they lost today.

Well, actually it is, they scored fewer goals.

The discussion about lacking dodgers is tiring sometimes, but it's true; because as has been stated many times, when the ball gets to X with this team, teams just stop defending him.

It's why I use the hashtag that you did not care for. You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster. JL and Benson brought vision...and well, they also had Rambo and those other guys that were rather good . Point being, the #PhippsEffect needs to turn positive, otherwise, well....you'll be looking past this season throwing in the towel.

"parity is leveling the playing field

It doesn't seem to be leveling the playing field for Duke, Virginia, or Notre Dame. Notre Dame has had it's most dominant teams ever the last 3 years. Virginia has had essentially a non-stop revolving door of stars for 5 years and hasn't had to rebuild once in that time frame. They will next year. Duke has had four straight years of super teams. The ACC/Big Ten/Ivy League took up every single at-large bid to the tournament last year. Did the Patriot League get any? Nope. A10? Nope. In 2022, the ACC/Big Ten/Ivy took up....every single at-large bid to the tournament. In 2021....they took up all but 2 and the 2 at-larges went to Loyola and Denver, two programs that have won national championships. There hasn't been a non-ACC/Big Ten/Ivy program on championship weekend since 2018. That doesn't seem to be much of parity leveling the playing field to me.

"You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster"

This has literally nothing to do with Michael Phipps. Do you watch the games? Do you know why this happens? It's because Eric Malever can't dodge a long pole. It's because opponents aren't afraid of anyone on Maryland's defense. If the opponent isn't afraid of anyone on the other team dodging against your pole, when the ball gets to X, they aren't going to hedge or react to the ball being in your X attackmen's stick like teams do with Connor Shellenberger. They will just sit there and watch. This was a similar problem last year, when....Michael Phipps was not the offensive coordinator!

It would be wise to actually add something constructive to the conversation aside from just throwing in a hashtag because of some issue you have with one coordinator who doesn't coach your team anymore

The offense was pretty much the exact same offense in 23 and has the same issues as last year. Phipps argument is just dumb. Maryland simply does not have the offensive talent or depth right now to be a legitimate threat for memorial weekend

You guys are missing the point and proving mine at the same time.

The point.... is that the recent OC's are not utilizing and adapting to the talent they have....which is your argument, BTW, I am providing another POV. JL and Benson did tweak the offense to benefit that players they had; Full Stop. And my argument about Phipps still applies, very little innovation and often status quo. But hey....complain about the players 'not beating their man' you recruited, and avoid the obvious right in front you. If you can't beat your man, then guess what....you tweak the offense like Benson and JL did to either force defenses to make long slides or spin the ball so quickly with off ball movement you don't need to beat a man.

[PulpExposure]

I think both JRN and Wheels are right in a lot of what they post. There was a noticeable hole in offensive recruiting in the past few classes, and it's showing now. There's also seemingly a weird loyalty to older players that I'm not used to seeing - before, it was earn your job...now it almost seems playing time is sometimes decided by how good a foot soldier you have been. In no way, and I mean this with no slight to the kid, but Brennan shouldn't be getting offensive playtime. He's a zero factor. 3 assists in 7 games, 4 turnovers is his contribution. Maltz has been a great goal scorer, but he can't create his own shot and in this offense, an inside finisher is just a luxury that isn't affordable. It worked when you had Bernhardt and Wisnauskas creating pressure at the X and left wing spot, but we don't have either of those guys out there creating that gravity that was alluded to. Meaning they can just slough inside and zero out Maltz, making him also a non-factor.

I have seen Spanos dodge a long pole for a goal (did it against ND). Consistently, no, but at least we've seen it. And yes, I mean I like the kid and his story, but objectively he's our third leading scorer and that's playing out of midfield. Most of the damage he's done is when they put him at X or near the crease, so having him play out in space at midfield doesn't make much sense. He's an attack, and a productive one (so you would want him on the field as much as possible), but you pull him off the midfield and there isn't really anyone else there so...yeah.

But we also don't have anyone willing to take an outside shot. That's a real issue - and I don't believe it's because they don't have shooters, as nearly all of these kids can shoot from range based on high school highlights. It's almost like the offense is designed to just pass up long shots for closer ones. And in theory I get it, but then you're making a defense's life just easier as they can just collapse inside and deny that, or heck they can even just play a simple zone and that's that.

On an aside, saw this and had to say something.

For instance a team like Army likley has zero 5 star, much less 4 star recruits on the field.

So...I think you'd be surprised. Army recruits. Yes, they don't recruit at the level of Duke or Virginia, but it's not like they only get unrated guys. They had 5 4 stars in the 2020 class, 4 4 stars in 2021 class, 2 in the 2022 class, 8 4 stars in the 23 class, 1 5 star and 6 4 stars in the 24. Lots of 3 stars, obviously. Their 2023 class is better than Maryland's. And yes, some major contributors some of them as well like Will Colleti and Evan Plunkett.

Navy btw recruits even better than Army. They get 5 stars once every few years (in 2020, they got 2 of them actually), and lots of 4 stars. 9 in the 2024 class...

[jrn19]

I'd love to know the offenses in the country in the history of lacrosse that ever scored goals without having players that were able to beat their man off the dodge. Newsflash: they don't exist.

You can move the ball however many times you want. The defense doesn't need to react or won't react if they know the guy carrying the ball isn't a threat to score himself. That's the whole point of having dodgers, they force the defense out of their shell and to hedge or over-pursue. You can compensate for this a little by having great shooters, which also forces the defense to over support when the ball gets up top to a guy with some time and space and then he can make a one more for a better shot; but guess what? Maryland doesn't have any outside shooters

So they have an offense with some good dodgers - they don't have none, which is why their offense is good, it's a Top 20 offense; they just play exclusively Top 20 teams every week so it looks a little worse - but no dodgers that are creating gravity the way elite, All-Americans do....and NO outside shooters. Do you know what that offense looks like? One where the defense doesn't react to ball movement

Bobby Benson had an offense with Jared Bernhardt and Logan Wisnauskas. And then a glut of other AAs. Bobby is an amazing offensive mind. He also literally came into the best possible offensive situation any coach has ever came into.

JL is a great offensive coach. Now go look at his offenses at Holy Cross. They scoring many goals? No. probably has something to do with the talent. Also, JL's offense his first year, when they had really only 1 dodger in Rambo and 1 outside shooter in Joe LoCascio, ranked very similarly to this one (17th.) Then Rambo became a superstar and he got Connor Kelly as well and Tim Rotanz and on and on and wow, they became a Top 5 offense every year. Who woulda thunk it.

[Wheels]

There's a disconnect between our eye test of the Maryland offense and what the metrics show. Maryland's adjusted offensive efficiency is 18th (33.2%), which is above average but not great. For context, here are Maryland's adjusted offensive efficiencies and rankings going as far back LaxRef's database goes (2015).

2024: 33.2% (18th)
2023: 32.2% (26th)
2022: 41.9% (1st)
2021: 40.7% (2nd)
2020: 36.6% (9th)
2019: 35.7% (8th)
2018: 37.8% (5th)
2017: 39.8% (2nd)
2016: 36.5% (9th)
2015: 33.3% (17th)

First, damn we've seen some good offenses over the past decade. Second, the reason our metrics look better on the screen than what we see watching games is because we've played some really good defenses this year.

Adjusted Defensive Efficiency National Rankings

Richmond: 1
Loyola: 28
Syracuse: 14
Princeton: 3
Notre Dame: 4
Brown: 51
Virginia: 21

The Brown game, of course, is the worrisome game. That was the "get well" game on the schedule, and the offense should have scored more than 14 goals. Of course, the defense shouldn't have given up 13 to that offense.

I agree with JRN about transition, but I'm not sure it's about the defensive shorties (2 of Schutz's goals yesterday were like "what can you do?"). I wonder how much Tills trusts the decision making of the offense, and he doesn't want the defense playing so much, especially in transition. I think most teams would like to have Maryland's 4 primary shorties. Some of the goals they've given up are from really low angles...the kinds of shots you'd prefer your goalie to see.

[jrn19]

Wheels point is apt. The offense is good, not great. Against a great schedule, it looks hard to score cause it’s always hard to score against great teams. And of course, the expectation for the program is to win the title and Top 20 isn’t enough to win the title. Certainly enough to make the tournament and win games in it. But it’s gotta make a leap for this team to win the championship. With the faceoff and defensive units, not a large one. But a leap. Hopefully it happens, but it may be a 2025 deal. We’ll see.

If you want to see what a bad unit actually looks like, watch this Cornell defense. That is BAD.

[youthathletics]

I'd love to know the offenses in the country in the history of lacrosse that ever scored goals without having players that were able to beat their man off the dodge. Newsflash: they don't exist.

You can move the ball however many times you want. The defense doesn't need to react or won't react if they know the guy carrying the ball isn't a threat to score himself. That's the whole point of having dodgers, they force the defense out of their shell and to hedge or over-pursue.

Have you never heard of a pick or a screen or a slip or a flip or fake.....each and every one of those do not require the ball carrier to beat their man on a dodge, and in this game....all you need is a half step, each of those can provide that. But hey, Terps don't have any of those guys...right ? I am not picking on you or the players, I am solely focused on the coaching staff and not getting all that talent in to the right flow. We are on the same page, the difference is that I do not believe Phipps is that guy and Bernhardt was not either. I do agree that there is not an 'alpha' like a Rambo, or Wisnauskas, or Jared B....yet.

Can you help me understand what you mean by a dodger than can "beat their man"? As I noted, all you need is a half step those ideas I mentioned give you that. Maybe terps need to introduce a bit more pairs or some of JL's really high wing dodges so they "S" dodge or get some speed to get that slide to commit.

Based on Wheels post....the best years were with JL and Benson 17' --> 22'....that is my point and the stats state it:

2024: 33.2% (18th)
2023: 32.2% (26th)
2022: 41.9% (1st)
2021: 40.7% (2nd)
2020: 36.6% (9th)
2019: 35.7% (8th)
2018: 37.8% (5th)
2017: 39.8% (2nd)
2016: 36.5% (9th)
2015: 33.3% (17th)

[Abr2016]

I really enjoy jrn and wheels posts. Maryland doesn’t have Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Rotanz, LoCascio, Bernhardt, Wisnauskas, Donville, Demaio etc… of course it was better in those years. Kind of impressive the offense hasn’t dipped as much without them. Speaks volumes about the system. Obviously the percentages were better when those guys were playing. Right now, they aren’t. Introduce pairs? Marylands entire offense is pairs. It has been since 2019.

Try watching my team play offense. 6 on 6 is a struggle.

[10stone5]

jrn19 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:29 pm
I'd love to know the offenses in the country in the history of lacrosse that ever scored goals without having players that were able to beat their man off the dodge.

2015 Pios, for me.

They didn't really have flat out beat your man attackmen or middies - but of course, they did have box game, high stick skill players like Wes Berg and Zach Miller.

Also, some of those Mark Matthews teams.

[jrn19]

I'd love to know the offenses in the country in the history of lacrosse that ever scored goals without having players that were able to beat their man off the dodge. Newsflash: they don't exist.

You can move the ball however many times you want. The defense doesn't need to react or won't react if they know the guy carrying the ball isn't a threat to score himself. That's the whole point of having dodgers, they force the defense out of their shell and to hedge or over-pursue.

Have you never heard of a pick or a screen or a slip or a flip or fake.....each and every one of those do not require the ball carrier to beat their man on a dodge, and in this game....all you need is a half step, each of those can provide that. But hey, Terps don't have any of those guys...right ? I am not picking on you or the players, I am solely focused on the coaching staff and not getting all that talent in to the right flow. We are on the same page, the difference is that I do not believe Phipps is that guy and Bernhardt was not either. I do agree that there is not an 'alpha' like a Rambo, or Wisnauskas, or Jared B....yet.

Can you help me understand what you mean by a dodger than can "beat their man"? As I noted, all you need is a half step those ideas I mentioned give you that. Maybe terps need to introduce a bit more pairs or some of JL's really high wing dodges so they "S" dodge or get some speed to get that slide to commit.

Based on Wheels post....the best years were with JL and Benson 17' --> 22'....that is my point and the stats state it:

2024: 33.2% (18th)
2023: 32.2% (26th)
2022: 41.9% (1st)
2021: 40.7% (2nd)
2020: 36.6% (9th)
2019: 35.7% (8th)
2018: 37.8% (5th)
2017: 39.8% (2nd)
2016: 36.5% (9th)
2015: 33.3% (17th)

Yes, from 2017-2022 with JL and Benson they literally had a Tewaaraton winner or finalist on the roster every. single. year. They had multiple First Team All-Americans in 2017 and 2022. They had multiple 2nd or 3rd team All-Americans in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. When you have Matt Rambo, Connor Kelly, Jared Bernhardt, and Logan Wisnauskas every year, you tend to have Top 10 offenses.

Could they run more picks or slips or fakes, sure. Do you know what offense ran more picks and slips and two man games than probably anyone the last few years? Denver. And let me gave you their ranks in offensive efficiency once Wes Berg and Connor Cannizzaro and Zach Miller and all of their superstars left and they stopped having guys who could dodge poles and draw slides.

2018: 13th
2019: 19th
2020: 15th
2021: 5th
2022: 10th
2023: 29th
2024: 16th

You'll notice 5th as the outlier there. That's the year they brought in Jackson Morrill from Yale, who was the #1 attackmen on a national championship team. It comes down to the personnel on the field. And the coaches absolutely have a hand in developing that personnel. Like I said in my post late last night, either they did not bring in the personnel over the last 4-5 years at the same rate OR they did not develop it at the same rate. But that's on Tillman and the fact they've had 4 offensive coordinators in 5 years and not enough continuity; not the offensive coordinator who showed up 2 months ago.

[jrn19]

jrn19 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:29 pm
I'd love to know the offenses in the country in the history of lacrosse that ever scored goals without having players that were able to beat their man off the dodge.

2015 Pios, for me.
They didn't really have flat out beat your man attackmen or middies - but of course, they did have box game, high stick skill players like Wes Berg and Zach Miller.

I remember a flat out beat your man attackmen they had. He once suited up for Maryland.

[youthathletics]

I really enjoy jrn and wheels posts. Maryland doesn’t have Rambo, Heacock, Kelly, Rotanz, LoCascio, Bernhardt, Wisnauskas, Donville, Demaio etc… of course it was better in those years. Kind of impressive the offense hasn’t dipped as much without them. Speaks volumes about the system. Obviously the percentages were better when those guys were playing. Right now, they aren’t. Introduce pairs? Marylands entire offense is pairs. It has been since 2019.

Try watching my team play offense. 6 on 6 is a struggle.

Agree 100%

[youthathletics]

I'd love to know the offenses in the country in the history of lacrosse that ever scored goals without having players that were able to beat their man off the dodge. Newsflash: they don't exist.

You can move the ball however many times you want. The defense doesn't need to react or won't react if they know the guy carrying the ball isn't a threat to score himself. That's the whole point of having dodgers, they force the defense out of their shell and to hedge or over-pursue.

Have you never heard of a pick or a screen or a slip or a flip or fake.....each and every one of those do not require the ball carrier to beat their man on a dodge, and in this game....all you need is a half step, each of those can provide that. But hey, Terps don't have any of those guys...right ? I am not picking on you or the players, I am solely focused on the coaching staff and not getting all that talent in to the right flow. We are on the same page, the difference is that I do not believe Phipps is that guy and Bernhardt was not either. I do agree that there is not an 'alpha' like a Rambo, or Wisnauskas, or Jared B....yet.

Can you help me understand what you mean by a dodger than can "beat their man"? As I noted, all you need is a half step those ideas I mentioned give you that. Maybe terps need to introduce a bit more pairs or some of JL's really high wing dodges so they "S" dodge or get some speed to get that slide to commit.

Based on Wheels post....the best years were with JL and Benson 17' --> 22'....that is my point and the stats state it:

2024: 33.2% (18th)
2023: 32.2% (26th)
2022: 41.9% (1st)
2021: 40.7% (2nd)
2020: 36.6% (9th)
2019: 35.7% (8th)
2018: 37.8% (5th)
2017: 39.8% (2nd)
2016: 36.5% (9th)
2015: 33.3% (17th)

Yes, from 2017-2022 with JL and Benson they literally had a Tewaaraton winner or finalist on the roster every. single. year. They had multiple First Team All-Americans in 2017 and 2022. They had multiple 2nd or 3rd team All-Americans in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. When you have Matt Rambo, Connor Kelly, Jared Bernhardt, and Logan Wisnauskas every year, you tend to have Top 10 offenses.

Could they run more picks or slips or fakes, sure. Do you know what offense ran more picks and slips and two man games than probably anyone the last few years? Denver. And let me gave you their ranks in offensive efficiency once Wes Berg and Connor Cannizzaro and Zach Miller and all of their superstars left and they stopped having guys who could dodge poles and draw slides.

2018: 13th
2019: 19th
2020: 15th
2021: 5th
2022: 10th
2023: 29th
2024: 16th

You'll notice 5th as the outlier there. That's the year they brought in Jackson Morrill from Yale, who was the #1 attackmen on a national championship team. It comes down to the personnel on the field. And the coaches absolutely have a hand in developing that personnel. Like I said in my post late last night, either they did not bring in the personnel over the last 4-5 years at the same rate OR they did not develop it at the same rate. But that's on Tillman and the fact they've had 4 offensive coordinators in 5 years and not enough continuity; not the offensive coordinator who showed up 2 months ago.

Oh...I agree. It has been a similar gripe of mine at Navy for close to a decade; a graduating class has never had the same OC for that duration.

I wonder just how much the covid years impacted recruiting at UM, coupled with the phase out of early recruiting.

[jrn19]

Well, Princeton’s barf tasting performance at the end of the Cornell game didn’t help Terps.

Gonna be 12th in RPI based off LaxRef simulator. Have 1 Top 10 win over Cuse and additional Top 20 win over Princeton. 4 B1G opponents are in the Top 20 of RPI (Penn State, Hop, Michigan, Rutgers.)

Provided they take care of business, making the tournament should not be much of a problem. But going to need to pick off a big road win or two if they’re going to climb the seed line for the tournament.

[blue angels]

Are there plans for Maryland to build a lacrosse or lacrosse/soccer only stadium like other competitor's have done?

[jrn19]

No

[Wheels]

I'd love to know the offenses in the country in the history of lacrosse that ever scored goals without having players that were able to beat their man off the dodge. Newsflash: they don't exist.

You can move the ball however many times you want. The defense doesn't need to react or won't react if they know the guy carrying the ball isn't a threat to score himself. That's the whole point of having dodgers, they force the defense out of their shell and to hedge or over-pursue.

Have you never heard of a pick or a screen or a slip or a flip or fake.....each and every one of those do not require the ball carrier to beat their man on a dodge, and in this game....all you need is a half step, each of those can provide that. But hey, Terps don't have any of those guys...right ? I am not picking on you or the players, I am solely focused on the coaching staff and not getting all that talent in to the right flow. We are on the same page, the difference is that I do not believe Phipps is that guy and Bernhardt was not either. I do agree that there is not an 'alpha' like a Rambo, or Wisnauskas, or Jared B....yet.

Can you help me understand what you mean by a dodger than can "beat their man"? As I noted, all you need is a half step those ideas I mentioned give you that. Maybe terps need to introduce a bit more pairs or some of JL's really high wing dodges so they "S" dodge or get some speed to get that slide to commit.

Based on Wheels post....the best years were with JL and Benson 17' --> 22'....that is my point and the stats state it:

2024: 33.2% (18th)
2023: 32.2% (26th)
2022: 41.9% (1st)
2021: 40.7% (2nd)
2020: 36.6% (9th)
2019: 35.7% (8th)
2018: 37.8% (5th)
2017: 39.8% (2nd)
2016: 36.5% (9th)
2015: 33.3% (17th)

But let's also recall the Phipps has been in College Park since the end of December. Not exactly sure how much he could do to the base offense in the 3 weeks he had with the team before their first game. EMO and set plays are more likely to have his fingerprints on at this point but not the entire offense.

To reiterate what JRN has said a few times, Tills and Benson both have given interviews where they talked about this offense. Benson himself has said multiple times that he didn't do much tweaking of it in the 2021 season because he wasn't there in the fall. He added some set plays (those ball flips behind GLE you've referred to that he brought over from Hop). But even he's said that it was Tills' offense. John's talked several times about what he and Reppert envisioned after the 2019 QF exit against UVA. The offense they drew up and installed in 2020 is still pretty much the basic structure of the offense. Of course they've made tweaks to it over the past couple of years, but it's Tills' and Reppert's offense. Benson and a slew of uber talented and experienced players in 2021 and 2022 maximized it. I'm not sure if we'll ever see the offense maximized like that again. I wonder if they need to tweak it again to account for the fact that they'll probably never have that level of talent and experience again. Not sure any team ever will again.

[jrn19]

When I think of Maryland’s offense, I think of it as being similar in ways to what Penn State did in 2019. Heavy, heavy emphasis on having as many players as possible who can all pass, cut off ball, shoot, finish inside as possible. Constant motion, unselfishness. Ament was a good dodger, but he was not at the upper echelon of a O’Neill or Shellenberger. Preternatural vision though, one of the best passers we’ve seen. the perfect fit in that system. A guy like Wisnauskas was similarly, despite not being an elite dodger, the perfect fit in Maryland’s system.

But a lot of those skills; cutting off ball, timing passes expertly so it’s always in rhythm for a shooter or cutter, etc. only really emerge from when you’re a junior or senior. Or even a 5th year.

What happened when Penn State went from having the experience they had in 2019-2020 to a bunch of young guys in 2021-2022? The offense dropped off hard, far more than Maryland’s has. But they dipped in the portal and got some more experienced players in 2023, TJ Malone came back from injury, and while it’s not exactly the same system, it’s similar and they have an elite offense.

As Wheels says, the offense probably takes a preponderance of older guys to execute. In 1-2 years, they can probably run it expertly. But right now, might be worth simplifying and going back to basics.

[AllaboutLax]

Unfortunately, the selfless system is not working Zero flow and freedom to the offense. Until that changes the offense will continue to remain stagnant and predictable.

[AreaLax]

I’m surprised we aren’t hearing more from Thomas Gravino. I saw him play last year and obviously being from upstate New York playing at a public high school didn’t get the publicity of a Duffy or Millon, but from what I saw, equally capable.

My guess is he is red shirting