Midfield.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:16 pm I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?
Gobigred
Joewillie78
Midfield.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:16 pm I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?
Graciasjoewillie78 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:42 pmMidfield.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:16 pm I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?
Gobigred
Joewillie78
Can this be part of the problem? We have fantastic attack, so people like Wirtheim and Firth are being asked to play midfield. There must be a learning curve.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:08 pmGraciasjoewillie78 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:42 pmMidfield.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:16 pm I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?
Gobigred
Joewillie78
Sure, it could be, but I think most agree that the problem has been at the other end of the field. Cornells offense and attack is so deep, that some players are simply going to have to wait their turn or play out of position. Firth being a freshman has made the adjustment incredibly well.Ezra White wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:04 pmCan this be part of the problem? We have fantastic attack, so people like Wirtheim and Firth are being asked to play midfield. There must be a learning curve.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:08 pmGraciasjoewillie78 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:42 pmMidfield.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:16 pm I need some clarification, feel like I’ve seen Wirtheim laying midfield hut his final ways lists attack. Am I lost on this one or is he regularly also playing moorings?
Gobigred
Joewillie78
Nonetheless, I think playing midfield is a great way to learn certain aspects of the game. And as someone said a few posts back, defensive middie may be the hardest position in the game.
Ezra White wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:08 pmWhat VRR & Chad said makes lots of sense. I couldn't watch either of our two losses, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:42 pm 'ChadC'
What I really liked about your post was the references to aggressiveness and team identity. While Adler is gone to graduation, THERE IS plenty of talent on this team. In retrospect, the boys did not have a good day & the coaches may not have had a great week in terms of game prep, but the seeming lack of aggressiveness, at least yesterday, stood out to me.
In regard to two observations/suggestions you made:
1) Running through picks instead of going underneath: In hoops, repeatedly going underneath picks is an absolute no-no (though it can be supported if a center effectively hedges and is able to recover). Lax is somewhat different, and runnig below picks was not the issue yesterday. The issue, time after time was a Very Poor job of coordinating on shows and doubles. The result was defenders getting caught in no man's land, unable to recover, or a late secondary slide leaving players uncovered or with lots of separation. Also, I want to review PSU goal highlights - my guess is that our defenders just aren't ACTIVELY using their sticks. So many hands free shots.
Additionally, Penn State's offense is very similar to that of Tambroni (as CU's HC), Milliman, and Coach B's - lots of ball movement, lots of player movement/cutting and redodges. Their dodges are more horizontal (reminds me of Princeton) than Cornell's north-south stuff. Defenders can afford to go underneath picks. But the communication and coordination MUST be there.
These comments aside, physical toughness was an issue yesterday (though it wasn't vs. Denver). 'Certainly don't want the "rep" as a finesse team.
2) Running the offense through CJ: Maybe we're thinking the same thing, but saying it differently. The offense typically runs through Long, rather than Kirst or is initiated via a north-south dodge to get the defense moving. Running it through Kirst exclusively will only cause opposing defenses to focus more on him (doubles or quick slides). What we want to happen is for Kirst to get lots of good looks. I'd rather get him matched up on a ss or secondary pole via two-man games. As it is, this season I think he's been unable to go right and get underneath his man. Far more (the great majority) of the time it's been curls to his strong hand where his defender can get support. Note - Kirst had 9 shots yesterday, twice as many as anyone else except Firth.
***Equally important with x's and o's is the intangible of (desired) team identity...and making it a reality.
My hope is that yesterday was a learning experience for everyone involved and we'll see a very different product on the field next Sunday against a good Princeton team.
I played club lacrosse in graduate school, and what's been said reminds me of one game in particular. Our coach was a very good lacrosse player, who'd played in high school & college (D2, I think). He usually stayed on the sideline, but in this game he played his usual position of attack. It was a disaster. The coach kept dodging against a D that wouldn't let him dodge. He ran great practices and was a terrific teacher, but he never ran drills with us. Consequently, when we were on offense there was no sense of team play in this particular game. It was every man for himself. IIRC, we lost by almost as much as Cornell lost to PSU.
This year Cornell seems to have similar issues on defense.
Chad's comments about being aggressive is important, but we have to be careful about penalties (it seems they're being called more tightly than in the past, and our man-down still needs lots of improvement), and we have to match our style with our personnel. (E.g., don't expect 5'9" - 145# Goldstein to run through too many picks. Maybe in a year or two, when he's 5'10" & 175# and all muscle. Firth is 5'9" & 165#.) This shouldn't mean our more talented but less physically intimidating player should never get on the field: we just have to develop an identity and style that maximizes the personnel we have, which may mean pairing players that compliment each other.
I'd be interested to know how we stack up against other teams statistically by size and weight.
As someone who has not viewed either of our 2 losses (I did listen to the DU game), I realize I'm talking through my hat a bit. But judging from what's been said, team defense seems to be the first item on the agenda. Tailoring individual roles within the team seems to be the second.
Given the strength and depth of our attack it's been frustrating to see our inability to score on estra man opportunities. Converting at 28% (62nd NCAA) while teams like Notre Dame (77%) and Harvard (63%) are converting much higher. In our 2 losses, Big Red converted only 1 for 9.joewillie78 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:36 pm
Sure, it could be, but I think most agree that the problem has been at the other end of the field. Cornells offense and attack is so deep, that some players are simply going to have to wait their turn or play out of position. Firth being a freshman has made the adjustment incredibly well.
Gobigred
Joewillie78
100% agree, and from what I have observed, Cornell on the man up, appear to be trying way too hard for that perfect play for an easy score, rather than, like they do at even strength, just letting it rip the first time they get their hands free.Trumansburger wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 8:34 amGiven the strength and depth of our attack it's been frustrating to see our inability to score on estra man opportunities. Converting at 28% (62nd NCAA) while teams like Notre Dame (77%) and Harvard (63%) are converting much higher. In our 2 losses, Big Red converted only 1 for 9.joewillie78 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:36 pm
Sure, it could be, but I think most agree that the problem has been at the other end of the field. Cornells offense and attack is so deep, that some players are simply going to have to wait their turn or play out of position. Firth being a freshman has made the adjustment incredibly well.
Gobigred
Joewillie78
I have been thinking this all season. When Cornell was down to Denver late, I was thinking, "Get the ball to the best player on the field and get out of the way."My suggestion is that when you have a work horse like CJ, the offense should focus THROUGH him when struggling.
On a related note, my assumption was that a big motivator for Kirst to play box in lacrosse over the summer was to develop his passing game with a lot of pressure on him.or it will open things up for the rest of the offense
This is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.
If you made a list of concerns with this team so far this season, Kirst would be at or near the bottom of the list. He has 5 assists. That is not meant as a criticism. It just points out that he is not being unnecessarily unselfish. His shots per game are down a bit from last season (12 to 10), but that may be because Long is healthy. The concerns that warrant attention are all on the other end of the field.mfp wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:42 pmThis is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.
No criticism of Kirst intended. I think he is amazing and don't want to see him being too "unselfish".
Also, opposing teams are expecting him to be the go-to guy when we need a goal (e.g., end of DU game). The has to be a contingency plan if, for example, he's double-long-polled.mfp wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:42 pmThis is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.
No criticism of Kirst intended. I think he is amazing and don't want to see him being too "unselfish".
Completely agree. To state the obvious: if Kirst is getting double-long-polled, that's a good thing as others are open (and more are open with short sticks).Ezra White wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:34 pmAlso, opposing teams are expecting him to be the go-to guy when we need a goal (e.g., end of DU game). The has to be a contingency plan if, for example, he's double-long-polled.mfp wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:42 pmThis is a fair comment and I agree for the most part. Still, there are times when the team needs a goal and needs its best player to be the difference maker.Other than the man-up offense, which has been bafflingly ineffective, the offense and Kirst have been the strength of the team this season so far.
No criticism of Kirst intended. I think he is amazing and don't want to see him being too "unselfish".
A crushing loss like the one to Penn State typically has one of two effects on a team:faircornell wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:55 am Cornell had fallen to the second page in FanLax, but it's still first in our hearts (to paraphrase)... Huge game today against the Princeton Tigers.
Princeton's attack is deadly, featuring Coulter Mackesy, Nate Kabiri and Colin Burns.
Defensively, the Tigers have standout goalie Michael Gianforcaro as well as one of the league's top cover men in Michael Bath.
Princeton also has the home field advantage. At their best, Cornell has an offense that's second to none. Best of luck to both teams.
Good observation, mfp. My hope for today is for Princeton's players to leave the field saying, "How on earth did these guys lose to Penn State?"mfp wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:43 amA crushing loss like the one to Penn State typically has one of two effects on a team:faircornell wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:55 am Cornell had fallen to the second page in FanLax, but it's still first in our hearts (to paraphrase)... Huge game today against the Princeton Tigers.
Princeton's attack is deadly, featuring Coulter Mackesy, Nate Kabiri and Colin Burns.
Defensively, the Tigers have standout goalie Michael Gianforcaro as well as one of the league's top cover men in Michael Bath.
Princeton also has the home field advantage. At their best, Cornell has an offense that's second to none. Best of luck to both teams.
- Confidence is decimated and there is a hangover that carries into subsequent games. Confidence must be rebuilt.
This sub has a lot of faith in the coaches and I do too. Plus, there seems to be good leadership so that bodes well. Though I am less clear on the leadership on defense where it is needed most.
- The team rallies together and roars back with a regroup-and-prove-the-haters-wrong mentality.
Hoping to see a unified, aggressive Cornell team today against a strong Princeton team. Go Big Red!
Good run-down, faircornell -- I'm rooting for a great game but would love to see Cornell bounce back after what I think was really just an off-day against PSU. Here's how I see the "tale of the tape":faircornell wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:55 am Cornell had fallen to the second page in FanLax, but it's still first in our hearts (to paraphrase)... Huge game today against the Princeton Tigers.
Princeton's attack is deadly, featuring Coulter Mackesy, Nate Kabiri and Colin Burns.
Defensively, the Tigers have standout goalie Michael Gianforcaro as well as one of the league's top cover men in Michael Bath.
Princeton also has the home field advantage. At their best, Cornell has an offense that's second to none. Best of luck to both teams.