Maryland 2024

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Terpsfan17
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Terpsfan17 »

jrn19 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:19 pm Offensive efficiency: 26%
Shooting %: 31%
Faceoffs: 57%
Save %: 40%

Shot it pretty decently. Just not enough quality looks. Offense was fine against a good team, but it's not built to have big games and put the team on its back and win games.

The teams road map to success has been and remains >55% on FOs from Wierman and >55% save percentage from McNaney. Third straight game <50% save percentage from McNaney, two losses out of 3 and the other an OT W over the worst team on the schedule. That's the story. Defense could not defend Schutz, which is what the game was going to boil down to as the close D took away the attack. If Wierman is great and McNaney is great, this team can beat anyone. If they're not, they're a pretty good, but not great team.

They need McNaney to get back to how he was playing earlier in the year or the offense has to break out in order to make a serious run. If not, they'll be favored in 3/5 Big Ten games, but it'll be a tough run. We'll see what happens.
Turnover percentages, do you have?
Groundballs as well
Weirman gets 0 help on the wings
jrn19
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by jrn19 »

Terpsfan17 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:35 pm
jrn19 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:19 pm Offensive efficiency: 26%
Shooting %: 31%
Faceoffs: 57%
Save %: 40%

Shot it pretty decently. Just not enough quality looks. Offense was fine against a good team, but it's not built to have big games and put the team on its back and win games.

The teams road map to success has been and remains >55% on FOs from Wierman and >55% save percentage from McNaney. Third straight game <50% save percentage from McNaney, two losses out of 3 and the other an OT W over the worst team on the schedule. That's the story. Defense could not defend Schutz, which is what the game was going to boil down to as the close D took away the attack. If Wierman is great and McNaney is great, this team can beat anyone. If they're not, they're a pretty good, but not great team.

They need McNaney to get back to how he was playing earlier in the year or the offense has to break out in order to make a serious run. If not, they'll be favored in 3/5 Big Ten games, but it'll be a tough run. We'll see what happens.
Turnover percentages, do you have?
Groundballs as well
Weirman gets 0 help on the wings
30%. Basically in line with the season average. Certainly the highest it’s been in a long time though.

Shortie depth is hurting the wings. Koras is great but he can’t do it all on his own. UVA is also always a good wing team.
Cno3putts
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Cno3putts »

Turnovers in high teens
keno in reno
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by keno in reno »

Good things-

Kelly looked re-energized and comfortable playing in his natural spot. His production would be a huge boost to the offense
The close D was generally very strong. That's encouraging if these teams meet again
Wierman was very good after a slow start and pretty dominant play from UVA's wings

Bad things-
Panic and bad decisions against the ride. Continuing theme all season. I cringe when the ball goes back to the goalie with 5 seconds left on the clock; bad news is imminent
Inside passes have about a 50% turnover rate
Down 2 with momentum and the ball, and we settle for a left-handed shot from a guy with 1 goal all season
Not getting a shot off on a critical EMO
Gave up some junk goals (weak left handed toss with no time on the shot clock; slow worm burner, bad clearing turnovers to easy slam dunks)
Bummer to see #44 cough it up so easily. He's got a cannon of a shot that this team needs, but we saw why he's not getting more run to date

Overall, an expected outcome but encouraging for the rest of the season. UVA's 1st, 2nd and 5th best options on offense were all #1 players in their classes, and the D did a good job on them. Hoos clearly circled this game on their calendar.
AreaLax
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by AreaLax »

Wheels
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Wheels »

Tired: The Terps don't have an alpha on offense.
Wired: The Terps don't have distance shooters.

That's the real problem with the offense. Because they have few outside shooters, guys will pass on a 12-yard shot to try to get an 8-yard shot. Defenses have started collapsing in, so passing lanes get jammed and windows get tighter. They're playing so tight right now...trying to not make mistakes...that they're turning the ball over too much.

You see this most in transition. That is, if you actually see any transition from the Terps. They're not playing fast.

You knew Erksa would have a tough game against Kastner. Kastner has enough foot speed plus his length to match Erksa, and Erksa isn't a guy who can get into a longer defenseman's body. That's just not his game. The Terps needed to win match-up elsewhere. Spanos played well. Siracusa played well. Koras didn't do much. With UVA's length and compressed structure, Maltz had no room inside to operate. Malever played well, but, again, without shooters, skip passes aren't there for him.

The second MF line is a mess. Rotating 5 guys through there (Murphy being the only constant) isn't working. No continuity. No confidence. Might as well just run 3 MF lines at this point instead of what they're doing.

To me, though, we all spend too much time focusing on the offense. Of course, we're anchored to two historically good offenses in 2021 and 2022. But the defense has struggled the past 3 weeks. UVA shot 45% today on just 31 shots.
jrn19
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by jrn19 »

I've been making the point about shooting on offense since the beginning of last season. It's not any one thing on offense, it's a lot of things. It's a multi-year issue borne out of a lot of different factors. None of it happened overnight. After Wisnauskas transferred and Fairman came in as a freshmen (who himself never quite became what he seemed like he would be on the offensive end) to when Braden Erksa got here, here are the highest ranked offensive recruits the team brought in and how their careers have panned out:
- Nick DeMaio (A): transferred
- Kyle Long (A): 5 year contributor, multi-year All-American at midfield
- Dylan Pallonetti (A): transferred
- Daniel Kelly (A): two-year contributor, 30 goals in 2023, second MF in 2024I
- Eric Malever (A): three-year contributor, starter on 2022 title team, coming off massive knee injury
- Jack Koras (M): two-year starter, three-year contributor, good all-around player
- Eric Spanos (A): two-year contributor, still waiting to see if he can break out

That's 4 recruiting classes worth of offensive players right there (2018-2021.) There are multiple 5-stars in there. Plenty of high school all-state, all-americans, etc. The best player of that bunch is probably Eric Malever, but he got hurt. The best career is by far, not even close, Kyle Long. There is not a First Team All-American among those guys. There is only one All-American period among those players there (Kyle Long.)

If I compare this to the previous 4 years, you get guys like Fairman, Bernhardt, Connor Kelly, Anthony DeMaio; and that's cutting it off a year before the massive 2013 class. So the obvious problem here is that high school recruiting/talent development on the offensive end has not kept up at the same pace it was prior in one or the other directions. Either they aren't getting as many talented guys, or they aren't doing as good a job developing them, or both. These are the classes that you needed to bridge the gap to Braden Erksa and Spanos as well, that you needed to carry the load as 3rd, 4th, 5th year guys after the graduation losses of 2022. It hasn't happened. Some of it is attrition from transfers of guys like DeMaio and Pallonetti, and Malever's injury was a huge turning point we still probably don't fully appreciate. He was the next guy up and now we may never really see the best of him. But they needed to bridge that gap in some way till Erksa becomes The Guy or Spanos becomes The Guy and it simply has not happened. They are relying on those dudes to be The Guys now and well, there are growing pains.

The discussion about lacking dodgers is tiring sometimes, but it's true; because as has been stated many times, when the ball gets to X with this team, teams just stop defending him. They're not afraid. Erksa CAN win a matchup and Spanos CAN win a matchup, but no one can create gravity right now on this team the way Shellenberger can for UVA. Or Bernhardt used to or guys on the 2022 offense could. That's the difference and it makes every other legitimate problem on the offense compounded

The shooting is compounded by the lack of gravity but it's a major issue. As stated above, teams cramp in on them and make them beat them and they can't, and so they're forcing passes to an interior already cramped because of the issues at X, and we're just stacking issues on top of each other now. No outside shooting also doesn't help your man-up, and when you are an underdog the way they are in these games, you have to steal goals somehow. Where can you do that? Man-up. Well, man-up ain't great if you can't hit outside shots.

The second midfield has to be addressed. This is not what the program was built on. The program has always been for better or worse, a ruthless mentality where the best guys play and you earn your spot or you're going to sit. There are a lot of guys in that group who have done good things for the program, but they aren't producing now. The 3 best players need to play. And maybe that's not younger freshmen. But then you still need to pick the 3 best guys out of that group and find a rotation and stick with them. What is happening isn't working and giving guys opportunities based off past production from a championship 2 years ago isn't doing anyone favors and again, isn't how the program achieved the success it has.

This is something that is only solved by digging yourself out of the hole you're in. Maybe Erksa or Spanos take the leap. If not this year, as juniors certainly the track record of the program suggests so. There's also some big time talent coming in next year to help with that too that look like possible immediate contributors. They just have to keep digging. But certainly the fact they feel like they're in a similar spot in March 2024 to where they were in March 2023 is frustrating.

Is the offense the only problem? No. It's not WHY they lost today. Defensive midfield is not great on this team, it's not bad, but it's another one of those cases of after what we've seen the last few years, certainly we know what the standard looks like and this team isn't at it right now. The Close D did it's job on the UVA attack...it always does. It was going to come down to defending Schutz and if they could do that, the rest of the UVA middies (a job I thought they could handle, UVA doesn't have a lot of dodging threats 5-9.) They couldn't get past Schutz. He dominated. McNaney hasn't had 3 straight games this poor in 3 years and it is concerning. He's owed some bad outings but it is concerning. Defensively though the problem is that they are just compounding mistakes. They had at least 2-3 goals that came off failed clears. 1 goal was directly off another McNaney bungle. One goal was off an EMO after a Wierman slash. UVA is going to score goals when you give them these chances. It was a similar story to the Notre Dame game. I don't think the defense played it's best game, but I also think they played a 10-11 goal game and gave up 14 due to those mistakes. And right now the offense is not capable of producing a 14-15 goal game to bail them out when they compound the mistakes like this.

This is a good team. Wierman is great and the defense is a Top 10 unit and the offense can score on most teams. They're going to make the tournament if they take care of their business. These are not things to just wipe aside. They can still improve. They're not far from these top teams as we've seen. But this is where they are at right now, it is clear. Time to see if they can bridge the gap over the next two months. Lot of lacrosse left to be played.
MDralphie
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by MDralphie »

Geez! I think many are being a little tough on a very good team.JRN has much of it right IMO.
Offense has not been great but good. Team formula to win, FO, Goalie play, Defense, less turnovers, more GB’s and they will compete with anyone. Shutz finally had a good game against MD. Hadn’t done much previously. I thought the D was good but Turnovers hurt
Yes they need better shooting and from better spots. This season is just starting now. ND and Va are very good teams and Terps will beat some more good teams. Get better. Tillman has a work in progress
Finster
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Finster »

Maryland fans, I’m a Cuse fan but I feel like I’m far less homer than nearly everyone I know, so I have a legitimate question that I saw yesterday and just could not understand. If you can answer, I’d appreciate it.

Why doesn’t Tillman give your backup FOGO Keethler a shot every once in a while, both to allow Weirman a breather but also get Keethler into really high profile high intensity games to get him ready if Weirman ever pulls up lame? Syracuse has a great FOGO in Kohn, but Gait puts the freshman Mullen in probably 20% of the time. Keethler’s % is high. Is this a philosophy that John has always had?

I do understand that Weirman is AA, but you can grind down a FOGO if you don’t give him a rest every so often.
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youthathletics
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by youthathletics »

jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Either they aren't getting as many talented guys, or they aren't doing as good a job developing them, or both.
.... you left out that parity is leveling the playing field, for the top programs. For instance a team like Army likley has zero 5 star, much less 4 star recruits on the field. IMO, their consistency with coaching staff and adaptation to the changes in the game have developed the players to compete. I'd argue Reppert adapted to his 'BIG" offense which forced long dodges and long slides, opening the field, Then Benson with essentially 6 attackman moving the ball so fast that defenses struggles to recover.
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Is the offense the only problem? No. It's not WHY they lost today.
Well, actually it is, they scored fewer goals. ;)
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am The discussion about lacking dodgers is tiring sometimes, but it's true; because as has been stated many times, when the ball gets to X with this team, teams just stop defending him.
It's why I use the hashtag that you did not care for. You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster. JL and Benson brought vision...and well, they also had Rambo and those other guys that were rather good ;) . Point being, the #PhippsEffect needs to turn positive, otherwise, well....you'll be looking past this season throwing in the towel.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Essexfenwick
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Essexfenwick »

Wheels wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:51 pm Tired: The Terps don't have an alpha on offense.
Wired: The Terps don't have distance shooters.

That's the real problem with the offense. Because they have few outside shooters, guys will pass on a 12-yard shot to try to get an 8-yard shot. Defenses have started collapsing in, so passing lanes get jammed and windows get tighter. They're playing so tight right now...trying to not make mistakes...that they're turning the ball over too much.

You see this most in transition. That is, if you actually see any transition from the Terps. They're not playing fast.

You knew Erksa would have a tough game against Kastner. Kastner has enough foot speed plus his length to match Erksa, and Erksa isn't a guy who can get into a longer defenseman's body. That's just not his game. The Terps needed to win match-up elsewhere. Spanos played well. Siracusa played well. Koras didn't do much. With UVA's length and compressed structure, Maltz had no room inside to operate. Malever played well, but, again, without shooters, skip passes aren't there for him.

The second MF line is a mess. Rotating 5 guys through there (Murphy being the only constant) isn't working. No continuity. No confidence. Might as well just run 3 MF lines at this point instead of what they're doing.

To me, though, we all spend too much time focusing on the offense. Of course, we're anchored to two historically good offenses in 2021 and 2022. But the defense has struggled the past 3 weeks. UVA shot 45% today on just 31 shots.

We just played a team with a lot more talent. To win would have taken a lot more effort, focus, precision and a little luck. It would help if the officials called obvious and constant holding on the face offs. In my opinion the Uva goalie is a weakness but so many of our possessions didn’t even get a shot off. For this team eke out a Big Ten title or squeak into the final four would truly “be the best” out of this rendition of Terp Lacrosse.
Abr2016
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Abr2016 »

jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am I've been making the point about shooting on offense since the beginning of last season. It's not any one thing on offense, it's a lot of things. It's a multi-year issue borne out of a lot of different factors. None of it happened overnight. After Wisnauskas transferred and Fairman came in as a freshmen (who himself never quite became what he seemed like he would be on the offensive end) to when Braden Erksa got here, here are the highest ranked offensive recruits the team brought in and how their careers have panned out:
- Nick DeMaio (A): transferred
- Kyle Long (A): 5 year contributor, multi-year All-American at midfield
- Dylan Pallonetti (A): transferred
- Daniel Kelly (A): two-year contributor, 30 goals in 2023, second MF in 2024I
- Eric Malever (A): three-year contributor, starter on 2022 title team, coming off massive knee injury
- Jack Koras (M): two-year starter, three-year contributor, good all-around player
- Eric Spanos (A): two-year contributor, still waiting to see if he can break out

That's 4 recruiting classes worth of offensive players right there (2018-2021.) There are multiple 5-stars in there. Plenty of high school all-state, all-americans, etc. The best player of that bunch is probably Eric Malever, but he got hurt. The best career is by far, not even close, Kyle Long. There is not a First Team All-American among those guys. There is only one All-American period among those players there (Kyle Long.)

If I compare this to the previous 4 years, you get guys like Fairman, Bernhardt, Connor Kelly, Anthony DeMaio; and that's cutting it off a year before the massive 2013 class. So the obvious problem here is that high school recruiting/talent development on the offensive end has not kept up at the same pace it was prior in one or the other directions. Either they aren't getting as many talented guys, or they aren't doing as good a job developing them, or both. These are the classes that you needed to bridge the gap to Braden Erksa and Spanos as well, that you needed to carry the load as 3rd, 4th, 5th year guys after the graduation losses of 2022. It hasn't happened. Some of it is attrition from transfers of guys like DeMaio and Pallonetti, and Malever's injury was a huge turning point we still probably don't fully appreciate. He was the next guy up and now we may never really see the best of him. But they needed to bridge that gap in some way till Erksa becomes The Guy or Spanos becomes The Guy and it simply has not happened. They are relying on those dudes to be The Guys now and well, there are growing pains.

The discussion about lacking dodgers is tiring sometimes, but it's true; because as has been stated many times, when the ball gets to X with this team, teams just stop defending him. They're not afraid. Erksa CAN win a matchup and Spanos CAN win a matchup, but no one can create gravity right now on this team the way Shellenberger can for UVA. Or Bernhardt used to or guys on the 2022 offense could. That's the difference and it makes every other legitimate problem on the offense compounded

The shooting is compounded by the lack of gravity but it's a major issue. As stated above, teams cramp in on them and make them beat them and they can't, and so they're forcing passes to an interior already cramped because of the issues at X, and we're just stacking issues on top of each other now. No outside shooting also doesn't help your man-up, and when you are an underdog the way they are in these games, you have to steal goals somehow. Where can you do that? Man-up. Well, man-up ain't great if you can't hit outside shots.

The second midfield has to be addressed. This is not what the program was built on. The program has always been for better or worse, a ruthless mentality where the best guys play and you earn your spot or you're going to sit. There are a lot of guys in that group who have done good things for the program, but they aren't producing now. The 3 best players need to play. And maybe that's not younger freshmen. But then you still need to pick the 3 best guys out of that group and find a rotation and stick with them. What is happening isn't working and giving guys opportunities based off past production from a championship 2 years ago isn't doing anyone favors and again, isn't how the program achieved the success it has.

This is something that is only solved by digging yourself out of the hole you're in. Maybe Erksa or Spanos take the leap. If not this year, as juniors certainly the track record of the program suggests so. There's also some big time talent coming in next year to help with that too that look like possible immediate contributors. They just have to keep digging. But certainly the fact they feel like they're in a similar spot in March 2024 to where they were in March 2023 is frustrating.

Is the offense the only problem? No. It's not WHY they lost today. Defensive midfield is not great on this team, it's not bad, but it's another one of those cases of after what we've seen the last few years, certainly we know what the standard looks like and this team isn't at it right now. The Close D did it's job on the UVA attack...it always does. It was going to come down to defending Schutz and if they could do that, the rest of the UVA middies (a job I thought they could handle, UVA doesn't have a lot of dodging threats 5-9.) They couldn't get past Schutz. He dominated. McNaney hasn't had 3 straight games this poor in 3 years and it is concerning. He's owed some bad outings but it is concerning. Defensively though the problem is that they are just compounding mistakes. They had at least 2-3 goals that came off failed clears. 1 goal was directly off another McNaney bungle. One goal was off an EMO after a Wierman slash. UVA is going to score goals when you give them these chances. It was a similar story to the Notre Dame game. I don't think the defense played it's best game, but I also think they played a 10-11 goal game and gave up 14 due to those mistakes. And right now the offense is not capable of producing a 14-15 goal game to bail them out when they compound the mistakes like this.

This is a good team. Wierman is great and the defense is a Top 10 unit and the offense can score on most teams. They're going to make the tournament if they take care of their business. These are not things to just wipe aside. They can still improve. They're not far from these top teams as we've seen. But this is where they are at right now, it is clear. Time to see if they can bridge the gap over the next two months. Lot of lacrosse left to be played.
This is a pretty good post. The reality is Maryland may have only 1 guy on offense that would even be in Virginia’s top 6
Wheels
Posts: 2018
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Wheels »

The wind down from the COVID bonus years and Ivy/D3 COVID transfers will be quite fascinating.

JRN listed some guys who transferred that are doing really well with their new programs. Maybe those guys didn't fit Maryland's culture. Maybe they didn't see a path to playing time with the COVID year/transfers Tills kept/brought in. Tills hasn't brought in a Jack Boyden/Christian Rhonda/Alex Vardaro/etc kind of offensive transfer since 2022. Maybe he can't land them? I'd heard from some people close to the program that Tills was looking more for defensive help (wanted a guy like Pederson). Hence the 3 UVM guys.

The elite teams at the top right now all have old players (via transfer or COVID year). What's ND look like without Pat Kavanagh, Jake Taylor, and Liam Entenmann? Still pretty good for sure, but as good as they are today? Shellenberger is a 6th year guy. What's that offense look like without him? Still pretty damn good but as good? No way. What's that left side of UVA's midfield look like without Boyden? And let's not even bring up the transfers at Duke.

Maybe the 2021 and 2022 teams were just such historical outliers, and those standards will never be reached at Maryland. The 2022 standard might not be reached by another college team for decades. Just a confluence of talent (homegrown and transfers) and experience. Maybe what we're seeing now at Maryland is what we'll see at UVA/ND/Duke/Cude next year when all of the experience finally departs from the entire system?

Maybe that's something Tills and his staff are thinking through. The offensive system as its installed right now requires a talent and experience level that the program will never have again.

I don't buy the "don't have dodgers" argument because the lack of dodging to me looks like a feature of the system and not a bug. Guys look too unselfish. They're too dedicated to moving the ball. Too dedicated to looking for a better shot from 8-yards out when a really good 10-yard shot is available. To my eye, they don't look like they're playing free. They still look like they're thinking a lot instead of just playing.

The noticeable lack of transition looks like a feature not a bug. The offense almost never attacks in early offense anymore. That looks like a feature not a bug. If you listen to Tills long enough, you know that early possession turnovers bother him. You can see guys in transition and early offense not taking chances this year. Again, that looks like a feature not a bug.

Some of the mistakes they're making right now are not taking a shot when they should. Passing one too many times when they shouldn't. Pulling the ball out when there's a chance to make a momentum play in transition.
jrn19
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by jrn19 »

youthathletics wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:29 am
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Either they aren't getting as many talented guys, or they aren't doing as good a job developing them, or both.
.... you left out that parity is leveling the playing field, for the top programs. For instance a team like Army likley has zero 5 star, much less 4 star recruits on the field. IMO, their consistency with coaching staff and adaptation to the changes in the game have developed the players to compete. I'd argue Reppert adapted to his 'BIG" offense which forced long dodges and long slides, opening the field, Then Benson with essentially 6 attackman moving the ball so fast that defenses struggles to recover.
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Is the offense the only problem? No. It's not WHY they lost today.
Well, actually it is, they scored fewer goals. ;)
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am The discussion about lacking dodgers is tiring sometimes, but it's true; because as has been stated many times, when the ball gets to X with this team, teams just stop defending him.
It's why I use the hashtag that you did not care for. You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster. JL and Benson brought vision...and well, they also had Rambo and those other guys that were rather good ;) . Point being, the #PhippsEffect needs to turn positive, otherwise, well....you'll be looking past this season throwing in the towel.
"parity is leveling the playing field

It doesn't seem to be leveling the playing field for Duke, Virginia, or Notre Dame. Notre Dame has had it's most dominant teams ever the last 3 years. Virginia has had essentially a non-stop revolving door of stars for 5 years and hasn't had to rebuild once in that time frame. They will next year. Duke has had four straight years of super teams. The ACC/Big Ten/Ivy League took up every single at-large bid to the tournament last year. Did the Patriot League get any? Nope. A10? Nope. In 2022, the ACC/Big Ten/Ivy took up....every single at-large bid to the tournament. In 2021....they took up all but 2 and the 2 at-larges went to Loyola and Denver, two programs that have won national championships. There hasn't been a non-ACC/Big Ten/Ivy program on championship weekend since 2018. That doesn't seem to be much of parity leveling the playing field to me.

"You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster"

This has literally nothing to do with Michael Phipps. Do you watch the games? Do you know why this happens? It's because Eric Malever can't dodge a long pole. It's because opponents aren't afraid of anyone on Maryland's defense. If the opponent isn't afraid of anyone on the other team dodging against your pole, when the ball gets to X, they aren't going to hedge or react to the ball being in your X attackmen's stick like teams do with Connor Shellenberger. They will just sit there and watch. This was a similar problem last year, when....Michael Phipps was not the offensive coordinator!

It would be wise to actually add something constructive to the conversation aside from just throwing in a hashtag because of some issue you have with one coordinator who doesn't coach your team anymore
jrn19
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by jrn19 »

Finster wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:25 am Maryland fans, I’m a Cuse fan but I feel like I’m far less homer than nearly everyone I know, so I have a legitimate question that I saw yesterday and just could not understand. If you can answer, I’d appreciate it.

Why doesn’t Tillman give your backup FOGO Keethler a shot every once in a while, both to allow Weirman a breather but also get Keethler into really high profile high intensity games to get him ready if Weirman ever pulls up lame? Syracuse has a great FOGO in Kohn, but Gait puts the freshman Mullen in probably 20% of the time. Keethler’s % is high. Is this a philosophy that John has always had?

I do understand that Weirman is AA, but you can grind down a FOGO if you don’t give him a rest every so often.
Everyone says this, and I don't disagree, but this is the mentality these coaches have with these top FOGOs. Lars rode Petey for every dang face-off for his career. I imagine it was the same thing with Trevor and TD back in the day, who were obviously aliens and a cut above even Wierman and Lasalla. It just seems to be how they operate when you have a First, 2nd Team AA FOGO.
masondixonlax
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by masondixonlax »

jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:48 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:29 am
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Either they aren't getting as many talented guys, or they aren't doing as good a job developing them, or both.
.... you left out that parity is leveling the playing field, for the top programs. For instance a team like Army likley has zero 5 star, much less 4 star recruits on the field. IMO, their consistency with coaching staff and adaptation to the changes in the game have developed the players to compete. I'd argue Reppert adapted to his 'BIG" offense which forced long dodges and long slides, opening the field, Then Benson with essentially 6 attackman moving the ball so fast that defenses struggles to recover.
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Is the offense the only problem? No. It's not WHY they lost today.
Well, actually it is, they scored fewer goals. ;)
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am The discussion about lacking dodgers is tiring sometimes, but it's true; because as has been stated many times, when the ball gets to X with this team, teams just stop defending him.
It's why I use the hashtag that you did not care for. You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster. JL and Benson brought vision...and well, they also had Rambo and those other guys that were rather good ;) . Point being, the #PhippsEffect needs to turn positive, otherwise, well....you'll be looking past this season throwing in the towel.
"parity is leveling the playing field

It doesn't seem to be leveling the playing field for Duke, Virginia, or Notre Dame. Notre Dame has had it's most dominant teams ever the last 3 years. Virginia has had essentially a non-stop revolving door of stars for 5 years and hasn't had to rebuild once in that time frame. They will next year. Duke has had four straight years of super teams. The ACC/Big Ten/Ivy League took up every single at-large bid to the tournament last year. Did the Patriot League get any? Nope. A10? Nope. In 2022, the ACC/Big Ten/Ivy took up....every single at-large bid to the tournament. In 2021....they took up all but 2 and the 2 at-larges went to Loyola and Denver, two programs that have won national championships. There hasn't been a non-ACC/Big Ten/Ivy program on championship weekend since 2018. That doesn't seem to be much of parity leveling the playing field to me.

"You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster"

This has literally nothing to do with Michael Phipps. Do you watch the games? Do you know why this happens? It's because Eric Malever can't dodge a long pole. It's because opponents aren't afraid of anyone on Maryland's defense. If the opponent isn't afraid of anyone on the other team dodging against your pole, when the ball gets to X, they aren't going to hedge or react to the ball being in your X attackmen's stick like teams do with Connor Shellenberger. They will just sit there and watch. This was a similar problem last year, when....Michael Phipps was not the offensive coordinator!

It would be wise to actually add something constructive to the conversation aside from just throwing in a hashtag because of some issue you have with one coordinator who doesn't coach your team anymore
The offense was pretty much the exact same offense in 23 and has the same issues as last year. Phipps argument is just dumb. Maryland simply does not have the offensive talent or depth right now to be a legitimate threat for memorial weekend
Finster
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2023 6:16 pm

Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Finster »

jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:55 pm
Finster wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:25 am Maryland fans, I’m a Cuse fan but I feel like I’m far less homer than nearly everyone I know, so I have a legitimate question that I saw yesterday and just could not understand. If you can answer, I’d appreciate it.

Why doesn’t Tillman give your backup FOGO Keethler a shot every once in a while, both to allow Weirman a breather but also get Keethler into really high profile high intensity games to get him ready if Weirman ever pulls up lame? Syracuse has a great FOGO in Kohn, but Gait puts the freshman Mullen in probably 20% of the time. Keethler’s % is high. Is this a philosophy that John has always had?

I do understand that Weirman is AA, but you can grind down a FOGO if you don’t give him a rest every so often.
Everyone says this, and I don't disagree, but this is the mentality these coaches have with these top FOGOs. Lars rode Petey for every dang face-off for his career. I imagine it was the same thing with Trevor and TD back in the day, who were obviously aliens and a cut above even Wierman and Lasalla. It just seems to be how they operate when you have a First, 2nd Team AA FOGO.


That’s fair. I don’t know if I agree with the decision for both the short and long term.
jrn19
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Re: Maryland 2024

Post by jrn19 »

Wheels wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:49 am The wind down from the COVID bonus years and Ivy/D3 COVID transfers will be quite fascinating.

JRN listed some guys who transferred that are doing really well with their new programs. Maybe those guys didn't fit Maryland's culture. Maybe they didn't see a path to playing time with the COVID year/transfers Tills kept/brought in. Tills hasn't brought in a Jack Boyden/Christian Rhonda/Alex Vardaro/etc kind of offensive transfer since 2022. Maybe he can't land them? I'd heard from some people close to the program that Tills was looking more for defensive help (wanted a guy like Pederson). Hence the 3 UVM guys.

The elite teams at the top right now all have old players (via transfer or COVID year). What's ND look like without Pat Kavanagh, Jake Taylor, and Liam Entenmann? Still pretty good for sure, but as good as they are today? Shellenberger is a 6th year guy. What's that offense look like without him? Still pretty damn good but as good? No way. What's that left side of UVA's midfield look like without Boyden? And let's not even bring up the transfers at Duke.

Maybe the 2021 and 2022 teams were just such historical outliers, and those standards will never be reached at Maryland. The 2022 standard might not be reached by another college team for decades. Just a confluence of talent (homegrown and transfers) and experience. Maybe what we're seeing now at Maryland is what we'll see at UVA/ND/Duke/Cude next year when all of the experience finally departs from the entire system?

Maybe that's something Tills and his staff are thinking through. The offensive system as its installed right now requires a talent and experience level that the program will never have again.

I don't buy the "don't have dodgers" argument because the lack of dodging to me looks like a feature of the system and not a bug. Guys look too unselfish. They're too dedicated to moving the ball. Too dedicated to looking for a better shot from 8-yards out when a really good 10-yard shot is available. To my eye, they don't look like they're playing free. They still look like they're thinking a lot instead of just playing.

The noticeable lack of transition looks like a feature not a bug. The offense almost never attacks in early offense anymore. That looks like a feature not a bug. If you listen to Tills long enough, you know that early possession turnovers bother him. You can see guys in transition and early offense not taking chances this year. Again, that looks like a feature not a bug.

Some of the mistakes they're making right now are not taking a shot when they should. Passing one too many times when they shouldn't. Pulling the ball out when there's a chance to make a momentum play in transition.
I think not going in the portal the last year or two was the correct move. The guys you mentioned are good players, would help. They're not the difference maker this team needs. Only guy of that type was Zawada, and he wasn't coming here. The team made the conscious decision to target some big portal names in 2021-2022 and it paid off with a national championship. You make that bet every single time. It potentially had the down trickle effect of guys like DeMaio or Pallonetti transferring out, or maybe those guys would have anyway. We don't know. It meant less playing time early for some guys who are here now like a Dan Kelly. But at the EOD, it got you 2022. Worth it.

I don't think there's anyone out there in the portal last two years who it would have been worth plugging in and giving less playing time to Erksa or less time to Spanos or whomever. These guys need to play now and develop and be at the point where it's their team in 2025 and 2026. The peak portal run was 2021-2022. As you mentioned, ND and UVA are where they are because of Shellenberger in Year 5 and Cormier in Year 20 and Pat Kav and Taylor in Year 5, etc. Jack Boyden's a nice piece, but it ain't the difference.

The lack of transition does look to be a feature, but I don't know that has anything to do with this offense, but rather maybe a conscious decision borne out of lack of depth at d-midfield. They're running mostly 3 shorties, Koras takes a lot of draws on the wings. Two long poles, but only Alviti is really a transition threat. And the approach the team seems to be taking is one of win faceoffs, goaltending, and they can compress the game. Probably because they don't trust the 6v6 offense.

However, we saw in 2021 and 2022, with this system, that they would push in transition as much if not more than anybody. We all know the stat of how many non-offensive goals they got. So it's within the system to do it. It seems to be a choice regarding the current personnel.

I understand that, but I just disagree with playing it that way. When you're capped at 11-12 a game, you have to find a way to create more offense. You need to steal goals somehow. Hopkins did this to Virginia in their game in C'Ville, they saw that UVA was weaker in the midfield and ran with them and pushed and got transition goals. Now I don't think we're Hopkins in the middle of the field, but UVA isn't Peak UVA either. And if you're going to pull an upset, that's what you have to do. Just executing better clearly isn't enough.

I do agree that what Maryland has faced the last two years is what is coming for UVA and ND the next few years when all their guys graduate and they can't fill their rosters with 5th year 24 year olds anymore. They have tons of attrition coming and the portal will have massively leveled out and they'll be plugging the holes with younger guys with less experience. Things will become far more normalized than they've been the last 4-5 years
jrn19
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Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Re: Maryland 2024

Post by jrn19 »

masondixonlax wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:05 pm
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:48 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:29 am
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Either they aren't getting as many talented guys, or they aren't doing as good a job developing them, or both.
.... you left out that parity is leveling the playing field, for the top programs. For instance a team like Army likley has zero 5 star, much less 4 star recruits on the field. IMO, their consistency with coaching staff and adaptation to the changes in the game have developed the players to compete. I'd argue Reppert adapted to his 'BIG" offense which forced long dodges and long slides, opening the field, Then Benson with essentially 6 attackman moving the ball so fast that defenses struggles to recover.
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am Is the offense the only problem? No. It's not WHY they lost today.
Well, actually it is, they scored fewer goals. ;)
jrn19 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:37 am The discussion about lacking dodgers is tiring sometimes, but it's true; because as has been stated many times, when the ball gets to X with this team, teams just stop defending him.
It's why I use the hashtag that you did not care for. You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster. JL and Benson brought vision...and well, they also had Rambo and those other guys that were rather good ;) . Point being, the #PhippsEffect needs to turn positive, otherwise, well....you'll be looking past this season throwing in the towel.
"parity is leveling the playing field

It doesn't seem to be leveling the playing field for Duke, Virginia, or Notre Dame. Notre Dame has had it's most dominant teams ever the last 3 years. Virginia has had essentially a non-stop revolving door of stars for 5 years and hasn't had to rebuild once in that time frame. They will next year. Duke has had four straight years of super teams. The ACC/Big Ten/Ivy League took up every single at-large bid to the tournament last year. Did the Patriot League get any? Nope. A10? Nope. In 2022, the ACC/Big Ten/Ivy took up....every single at-large bid to the tournament. In 2021....they took up all but 2 and the 2 at-larges went to Loyola and Denver, two programs that have won national championships. There hasn't been a non-ACC/Big Ten/Ivy program on championship weekend since 2018. That doesn't seem to be much of parity leveling the playing field to me.

"You are seeing elements of GTowns offense, NOT what is best for UMD and the current roster"

This has literally nothing to do with Michael Phipps. Do you watch the games? Do you know why this happens? It's because Eric Malever can't dodge a long pole. It's because opponents aren't afraid of anyone on Maryland's defense. If the opponent isn't afraid of anyone on the other team dodging against your pole, when the ball gets to X, they aren't going to hedge or react to the ball being in your X attackmen's stick like teams do with Connor Shellenberger. They will just sit there and watch. This was a similar problem last year, when....Michael Phipps was not the offensive coordinator!

It would be wise to actually add something constructive to the conversation aside from just throwing in a hashtag because of some issue you have with one coordinator who doesn't coach your team anymore
The offense was pretty much the exact same offense in 23 and has the same issues as last year. Phipps argument is just dumb. Maryland simply does not have the offensive talent or depth right now to be a legitimate threat for memorial weekend
I don't know if I totally agree with this, because last year they win the game against Army if they get more than 5 saves, and they would have been favored over Penn State. Now do I think they'd have beaten Duke? No. But they could have got there. If they get a home game this year, they'll likely be in a good spot to get to a Quarterfinal and Tillman's got a great record there and this team isn't far from pulling these upsets.

If we're talking the offense is keeping them from being a legitimate win on MDW threat, I agree. But I do still think they can get there.
Bmk2222
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:34 am

Re: Maryland 2024

Post by Bmk2222 »

Give the Terps just 1 of any of the dominant guys,
Shellenburger
Cormier
Kavanagh
O’Neil
Etc.
Even a guy like Degnon and the Terps would be a completely different team. For whatever reasons we don’t have 1….
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