NESCAC

[pcowlax]

What is going on with Middlebury? They looked just awful today!

Rough weekend for Midd. Nothing to add to the good points above about the Bowdoin game. The defense rebounded against Babson (getting their top LSM back certainly helped), but the offense continues to scuffle. RPI/Bowdoin/Babson clearly identified/exploited some critical weaknesses (discussed over the last few weeks), but Midd coaches have been resolute in their dedication to the same scheme as 2023. I thought RPI would be a wake-up call, but it wasn't ... will be interesting to see if they make any meaningful changes before Bates.

Meaning Babson also put a shorty on an attackman and double poled the middies? I haven’t see this in person so can’t really see how it is being done. Does the same guy just stay on and stay on the defensive side of the field the whole game? Do they rotate in SSDM for the role? Does he ever switch to covering a mid? It is so bizzare. Smoova, you are too polite to say so but whatever they are doing on offense ain’t working. They need to shake something, personnel if need be, up.

[nelaxman]

Wesleyan is looking very strong this year. They must be still pissed about last season and are just beating people down. Very impressive win against Roanoke today. I thought Roanoke was going to win this game today based on them taking #5 Dickinson wire to wire in their last game. They look to be a top-tier NESCAC team this year.

[smoova]

Meaning Babson also put a shorty on an attackman and double poled the middies? I haven’t see this in person so can’t really see how it is being done. Does the same guy just stay on and stay on the defensive side of the field the whole game? Do they rotate in SSDM for the role? Does he ever switch to covering a mid? It is so bizzare.

Babson didn’t double pole the middies. RPI/Bowdoin did it by shifting an SSDM onto the same attacker early in Midd possessions, the pole then picks up a middie for the possession but stays back when the ball goes back over midfield.

[ah23]

Meaning Babson also put a shorty on an attackman and double poled the middies? I haven’t see this in person so can’t really see how it is being done. Does the same guy just stay on and stay on the defensive side of the field the whole game? Do they rotate in SSDM for the role? Does he ever switch to covering a mid? It is so bizzare. Smoova, you are too polite to say so but whatever they are doing on offense ain’t working. They need to shake something, personnel if need be, up.

Babson didn't do any of that; they just played Middlebury straight up. Maher (#51, top cover guy) was always on Curtis (#13), Chip Quinn (#7, Lynchburg transfer, All-Name Team nominee) was on Thorndike (#52), and Dillon Quinn (#43) was on Ryan (#29). LSM was always on Jamin (#40); SSDMs were always on 41 and 42. When Thorndike and Ryan sat, the Quinns covered two other attackmen (2/3, White/Zink). Never saw them double pole the middies; again, straight up 6v6.

Middlebury just didn't do much to create easy opportunities. Lots of standing around 20 yards from the goal and staring at the guy with the ball instead of cutting into open space, LOTS of sweeping, telegraphed, "everyone clear out" mid-2000s-looking midfield dodges that start at almost midfield, etc.

• Go to ~45:38; 7 for Babson is ball watching and loses track of Thorndike; this could have been an easy back cut for a hands-free stepdown from like 10-12 yards out. Instead, Thorndike floats around up top (and actually stops his cut into space to pull back and serve as an outlet), catches a casual "swing it around" pass 20+ yards out, then sets up a slow bull dodge before getting stripped by a double that comes from his front side.

• For the isoball thing...go to basically any Middlebury offensive possession and you have a decent chance of seeing a slow-developing 30-yard midfield dodge that gives the defense all the time in the world to prepare for. That's probably hyperbole to a certain extent, but still. Middlebury did it a lot, and it didn't do anything for them.

With the obvious caveat that I am just some guy on the internet and have no idea what their practices/film/offensive system look like: Jamin is awesome, but having him start dodges from the midline just doesn't make sense to me. Thought he was effective at creating space in quick bursts and consistently beating defenders within the first 5-10 yards of a dodge, to the point where I thought he actually passed up a few shot opportunities because he was looking to pass. Some of the other stuff is just bad lacrosse. Standing around off-ball and not being a threat to step into a shot or immediately redodge into an unsettled defense is really basic. So is having your standard spacing be so spread out that dodge-pass-pass-dodge becomes dodge-pass-pass-square up defender-do a few stutter steps-long dodge into a set slide package. Babson's goalie had a great day and that's definitely part of it, but a lot of Middlebury's problems just look self-inflicted.

I don't know enough about Middlebury to know what is different from 2023, but they are struggling in ways they never did last season. Very weird considering that it's all the same players.

[Unknown Participant]

Boyden at a PPG for UVA and Kohn is a huge piece of Cuse's success so far..... where's lax dad @???

Boyden averaging 3 pt a game, and is UVA’s #1 middie. Kohn might be 1st Team AA.

I am HUGE Mason Kohn fan, but Laliberte from Bryant is the best I have seen this year.

[Wizard-Saga]

Meaning Babson also put a shorty on an attackman and double poled the middies? I haven’t see this in person so can’t really see how it is being done. Does the same guy just stay on and stay on the defensive side of the field the whole game? Do they rotate in SSDM for the role? Does he ever switch to covering a mid? It is so bizzare. Smoova, you are too polite to say so but whatever they are doing on offense ain’t working. They need to shake something, personnel if need be, up.

Babson didn't do any of that; they just played Middlebury straight up. Maher (#51, top cover guy) was always on Curtis (#13), Chip Quinn (#7, Lynchburg transfer, All-Name Team nominee) was on Thorndike (#52), and Dillon Quinn (#43) was on Ryan (#29). LSM was always on Jamin (#40); SSDMs were always on 41 and 42. When Thorndike and Ryan sat, the Quinns covered two other attackmen (2/3, White/Zink). Never saw them double pole the middies; again, straight up 6v6.

Middlebury just didn't do much to create easy opportunities. Lots of standing around 20 yards from the goal and staring at the guy with the ball instead of cutting into open space, LOTS of sweeping, telegraphed, "everyone clear out" mid-2000s-looking midfield dodges that start at almost midfield, etc.

• Go to ~45:38; 7 for Babson is ball watching and loses track of Thorndike; this could have been an easy back cut for a hands-free stepdown from like 10-12 yards out. Instead, Thorndike floats around up top (and actually stops his cut into space to pull back and serve as an outlet), catches a casual "swing it around" pass 20+ yards out, then sets up a slow bull dodge before getting stripped by a double that comes from his front side.

• For the isoball thing...go to basically any Middlebury offensive possession and you have a decent chance of seeing a slow-developing 30-yard midfield dodge that gives the defense all the time in the world to prepare for. That's probably hyperbole to a certain extent, but still. Middlebury did it a lot, and it didn't do anything for them.

With the obvious caveat that I am just some guy on the internet and have no idea what their practices/film/offensive system look like: Jamin is awesome, but having him start dodges from the midline just doesn't make sense to me. Thought he was effective at creating space in quick bursts and consistently beating defenders within the first 5-10 yards of a dodge, to the point where I thought he actually passed up a few shot opportunities because he was looking to pass. Some of the other stuff is just bad lacrosse. Standing around off-ball and not being a threat to step into a shot or immediately redodge into an unsettled defense is really basic. So is having your standard spacing be so spread out that dodge-pass-pass-dodge becomes dodge-pass-pass-square up defender-do a few stutter steps-long dodge into a set slide package. Babson's goalie had a great day and that's definitely part of it, but a lot of Middlebury's problems just look self-inflicted.

I don't know enough about Middlebury to know what is different from 2023, but they are struggling in ways they never did last season. Very weird considering that it's all the same players.

Super thorough and I found it an interesting analysis. I've only glanced at their scores, so two questions to the more knowledgeable people out there:

1) Can anyone confirm injuries or missing players based on a previous post that talked to the Middle parent? Would that have made a difference for this game or games in the future?

2) Some teams choose to play back to back or just a day apart (for various reasons). If this game would have been on Wednesday with more time in between, would the final outcome be different? They both had the same rest time, but perhaps this was a factor?

If I were a Midd fan, I wouldn't hit the panic button yet. However it does seem to draw them down from their elite tower a little bit more this year when looking at comparison scores.

[Can Opener]

Boyden at a PPG for UVA and Kohn is a huge piece of Cuse's success so far..... where's lax dad @???

Boyden averaging 3 pt a game, and is UVA’s #1 middie. Kohn might be 1st Team AA.

I am HUGE Mason Kohn fan, but Laliberte from Bryant is the best I have seen this year.

Facts

[jumpman23]

Wesleyan annihilated Roanoke today. Good win for comparing conferences but probably more of a reflection of how weak the ODAC is year after year.

73 goals by Wes in three games either means their offense is elite or they scheduled three cupcake games to get their mojo back. Unknown if the defense can handle the top offenses in the ‘Cac.

[WoodStick]

Anyone see the Midd-Bowdoin game? What happened? Or after two straight losses we now know Midd is not an elite team?

Bowdoin was dominant in all three phases. Physical defense, strong transition and controlling offense. Midd showed flashes at times, but Bowdoin controlled the pace of play and physicality. Was very impressed with this Polar Bear performance - we'll see if they can keep it going.

Fortunately for Midd, they have another opportunity against a strong Babson team to right the ship tomorrow and erase the memories from their past two games. If they don't pull one out tomorrow, it's going to be a long trip back to northern VT with a serious reset needed.

polar bears very efficient on offense - fast ball movement put middlebury zone on spin cycle and generated many time/room shots from <10 yards. 

midlebury parent told me their best close, lsm and ssdm all out with injury. 

bowdoin putting poles on two middlebury middies killed their dodging offense. 

bowdoin's top fogo was out, so managed only ~40% at the x ... score could have been worse if ratio was flipped.  

Thanks for all the color. I also heard that there were 4 impact first years for Bowdoin. Still seems like Tufts is clear front runner once again.

Tufts is going to be hard to beat, they play Tufts lacrosse which is up and down the field and they do not care about the occasional ball being thrown away, coincidently, this is what hurts them against an RIT or Salisbury, we will see this weekend. 51 and 43 on defense are extensions of their offense and as soon as the ball is in their stick they are off to the races, so fun to watch. They destroyed Trinity this weekend in what will be a tune up for the game this Saturday.
Huge win for Colby on the road against Conn. Kids buying into Bernhardt and his Maryland system, heard that he is basically doing everything he learned from Tillman.

Amherst Swathmore appears to be the best of the mid-week games.

[SKUD]

Super thorough and I found it an interesting analysis. I've only glanced at their scores, so two questions to the more knowledgeable people out there:

1) Can anyone confirm injuries or missing players based on a previous post that talked to the Middle parent? Would that have made a difference for this game or games in the future?

2) Some teams choose to play back to back or just a day apart (for various reasons). If this game would have been on Wednesday with more time in between, would the final outcome be different? They both had the same rest time, but perhaps this was a factor?

If I were a Midd fan, I wouldn't hit the panic button yet. However it does seem to draw them down from their elite tower a little bit more this year when looking at comparison scores.
[/quote]

1. No, figure both teams are banged up and missing players so it's not a factor.
2. Sunday-Both teams had played a mid-week and a Saturday game. every other year it becomes a brutal road trip for the visitor.
3. The better team won Wed-Sat-Sun.

[shorelax12]

Is Colby back???

At least maybe out of the basement. I don't think Colby has won a Nescac game in the last 4 seasons except v Bates (I could be wrong, not going to look). That is a huge win esp. as some of our esteemed fellow posters had CC ranked pretty high.

Certainly begs the question as to whether GVA was holding that team back.

[ah23]

Colby did beat both Wesleyan and Trinity in 2022, as well as Conn in 2021. It’s definitely a good win for them (no such thing as bad wins for teams that don’t get many), but it’s still just one game against a team that was #8 in the conference a year ago.

[shorelax12]

Colby did beat both Wesleyan and Trinity in 2022, as well as Conn in 2021. It’s definitely a good win for them (no such thing as bad wins for teams that don’t get many), but it’s still just one game against a team that was #8 in the conference a year ago.

Fair point, but it will be interesting to see how the season plays out for them, and whether a new system and philosophy makes a difference.

[SouthieLax]

Super thorough and I found it an interesting analysis. I've only glanced at their scores, so two questions to the more knowledgeable people out there:

1) Can anyone confirm injuries or missing players based on a previous post that talked to the Middle parent? Would that have made a difference for this game or games in the future?

2) Some teams choose to play back to back or just a day apart (for various reasons). If this game would have been on Wednesday with more time in between, would the final outcome be different? They both had the same rest time, but perhaps this was a factor?

If I were a Midd fan, I wouldn't hit the panic button yet. However it does seem to draw them down from their elite tower a little bit more this year when looking at comparison scores.


1. No, figure both teams are banged up and missing players so it's not a factor.
2. Sunday-Both teams had played a mid-week and a Saturday game. every other year it becomes a brutal road trip for the visitor.
3. The better team won Wed-Sat-Sun.

Agree it’s not an excuse but worth pointing out that Luke Simpson, Preseason 1st Team All-American (1st Team NESCAC; 2nd Team AA last year) and arguably the most decorated player coming into the NESCAC season this year hasn’t played yet for the Panthers. I know nothing about the injury, hope it’s not a season-ending scenario but that’s about as big a loss as any team can handle.

[The12lov3]

[/quote]

Agree it’s not an excuse but worth pointing out that Luke Simpson, Preseason 1st Team All-American (1st Team NESCAC; 2nd Team AA last year) and arguably the most decorated player coming into the NESCAC season this year hasn’t played yet for the Panthers. I know nothing about the injury, hope it’s not a season-ending scenario but that’s about as big a loss as any team can handle.
[/quote]

Clearly not a lot a depth on the team if this one player can swing things that dramatically, Not saying that it will not hurt but injuries are part of the game and deep teams manage to step up and find replacements with less of an impact.

[SaltCounty]

Do you drop Middlebury far for their 3 game skid?
Do you elevate Wesleyan for their 73 goals without a true test?
Is the only reason Saturday was close because Williams only plays 1-goal games?

My best guess at PR going into this week...

1 - Tufts
2 - Bowdoin
3 - Midd
4 - Amherst
5 - Williams
6 - Wesleyan
7 - Hamilton
8 - Colby
9 - Conn
10 - Trinity
11 - Bates

And for mid week games:

Conn over Salve
Wes over Stockton
Amherst over Swat (The NESCAC needs this win for At-Large Resumes)
Bowdoin over Endicott
Trinity over West Conn

[NNELax]

Agree it’s not an excuse but worth pointing out that Luke Simpson, Preseason 1st Team All-American (1st Team NESCAC; 2nd Team AA last year) and arguably the most decorated player coming into the NESCAC season this year hasn’t played yet for the Panthers. I know nothing about the injury, hope it’s not a season-ending scenario but that’s about as big a loss as any team can handle.
[/quote]

Clearly not a lot a depth on the team if this one player can swing things that dramatically, Not saying that it will not hurt but injuries are part of the game and deep teams manage to step up and find replacements with less of an impact.
[/quote]

Simpson is very good...Does he swing all those games?...probably not...but he is a loss for sure

[SKUD]

But not worth wasting words on. Everyone has injuries.

Mustang Classic- biggest potential separator event until conf tournament.

[choochooCharlie]

So many posts about Middlebury’s struggles.

Doxxing laxdad didn’t alter reality
Getting RE6 banned didn’t delay the inevitable
Muting me doesn’t make Middlebury any better.

Now that the wheels have officially fallen off, what’s plan “D” ? Just keep putting them at 6 in the polls and hope for the best? Act like they’re the only team to have a few key players banged up? Watching this unfold has been very telling.

[Mickey Mantle]

Agree it’s not an excuse but worth pointing out that Luke Simpson, Preseason 1st Team All-American (1st Team NESCAC; 2nd Team AA last year) and arguably the most decorated player coming into the NESCAC season this year hasn’t played yet for the Panthers. I know nothing about the injury, hope it’s not a season-ending scenario but that’s about as big a loss as any team can handle.

Clearly not a lot a depth on the team if this one player can swing things that dramatically, Not saying that it will not hurt but injuries are part of the game and deep teams manage to step up and find replacements with less of an impact.
[/quote]

Simpson is very good...Does he swing all those games?...probably not...but he is a loss for sure
[/quote]

Can’t speak to the full impact of Simpson’s loss, but against Babson, Midd scored 2 goals in the final three quarters. Hard to lay that at the feet of the defense. Hat’s off to Babson’s goalie, and to their D (including their Holy Cross transfer), they played a helluva game.