Johns Hopkins 2024

[jhu06]

This is just your annual reminder that it wasn't that long ago that many people on this thread wanted PM gone....

"Many people" is a stretch. It was a one or two, and they don't really show their faces in here anymore. Sag A hasn't been seen since last season.

I was the most critical, arguably.

Brown was in full dress it looked like in the huddle on tv. I thought he was tremendous last year and Kaufman was very good too but Kilrains Deans Chauvettes and Ayers pushing up the depth charts are what you expect in a healthy program with young talented players.

Ierlan got the national podcast spot this week for his second half performance but Beaudan has probably been the most improved player this year followed by some combination of the ssdms beyond martin.

[hmmm]

Not sure if discussed, but can someone explain to this lacrosse dummy the reasoning behind giving the ball away at the end of games on purpose? In both the Georgetown and UVA games, Hopkins chose to throw the ball out of the endzone multiple times late in the game during a 10 man ride. Most recently against UVA, Hop had the ball with around 55 seconds left and a 2 goal lead and just threw it out of bounds. It wasn't even close to looking like a shot on goal and in most these cases the shot wasn't backed up even if it had been. UVA turned it over with 25 seconds and PM called a timeout and it was Hop ball near the box. On the whistle Ayers(i believe it was him) just threw the ball out of bounds. As it was out of a TO, he was obviously told to do it. He didn't even throw it anywhere near the empty cage. You're telling me you'd rather give the ball back to UVA with a chance to score and win a faceoff to tie the game then try to kill off 55 seconds and then 25 seconds and end the game? The only way you lose to to give up the ball. Many coaches don't even want scoring in the empty net in these situations because you risk never getting the ball back.

Make it make sense to me

[molo]

Shot clock. As the shot clock winds down if you are not in a position to take a good shot, you dump the ball into the corner so that that the other team has to start its clear from the end line while you sub in defensive personnel.

[HopFan16]

Not sure if discussed, but can someone explain to this lacrosse dummy the reasoning behind giving the ball away at the end of games on purpose? In both the Georgetown and UVA games, Hopkins chose to throw the ball out of the endzone multiple times late in the game during a 10 man ride. Most recently against UVA, Hop had the ball with around 55 seconds left and a 2 goal lead and just threw it out of bounds. It wasn't even close to looking like a shot on goal and in most these cases the shot wasn't backed up even if it had been. UVA turned it over with 25 seconds and PM called a timeout and it was Hop ball near the box. On the whistle Ayers(i believe it was him) just threw the ball out of bounds. As it was out of a TO, he was obviously told to do it. He didn't even throw it anywhere near the empty cage. You're telling me you'd rather give the ball back to UVA with a chance to score and win a faceoff to tie the game then try to kill off 55 seconds and then 25 seconds and end the game? The only way you lose to to give up the ball. Many coaches don't even want scoring in the empty net in these situations because you risk never getting the ball back.

Make it make sense to me

The first one was Smith trying to pass it to an attackman deep in the offensive zone to beat UVA's 10-man. Don't think that was an intentional strategy to throw it out of bounds. Just too much air on the pass.

The second one with 25 seconds left out of the timeout was very much intentional, and I was fine with it to be honest. It killed 6 seconds and forced Virginia into a full-field clear from their own endline down 2 goals with 19 seconds left. The last thing you want to do is have Bauer get stripped and suddenly UVA has numbers in transition with 20 seconds left. Hoos were doubling the ball out of the timeout and locking everyone else off — it would have been dangerous for Bauer to try to dodge or pass out of that against UVA's pterodactyls. Throw it as high as you can, kill as much clock as possible, and trust that you can prevent them from scoring twice in whatever time is left with UVA having to run the entire field. Some better execution on the pass probably would have killed 10+ seconds instead of 6 and at that point it's pretty much mathematically impossible for UVA to score twice.

[hmmm]

Shot clock. As the shot clock winds down if you are not in a position to take a good shot, you dump the ball into the corner so that that the other team has to start its clear from the end line while you sub in defensive personnel.

Shot clock wasn't an issue with either. When Chayse picked up the ball there were 48 seconds left so shot clock was off. If we can't kill 48 seconds what are we even doing? I just don't agree with willingly giving the ball up. Even with 20 seconds left. The only way you lose is if you give up the ball.

As my first post said, we did the same thing against Georgetown starting with 1:50 left.

[norcalhop]

Not sure if discussed, but can someone explain to this lacrosse dummy the reasoning behind giving the ball away at the end of games on purpose? In both the Georgetown and UVA games, Hopkins chose to throw the ball out of the endzone multiple times late in the game during a 10 man ride. Most recently against UVA, Hop had the ball with around 55 seconds left and a 2 goal lead and just threw it out of bounds. It wasn't even close to looking like a shot on goal and in most these cases the shot wasn't backed up even if it had been. UVA turned it over with 25 seconds and PM called a timeout and it was Hop ball near the box. On the whistle Ayers(i believe it was him) just threw the ball out of bounds. As it was out of a TO, he was obviously told to do it. He didn't even throw it anywhere near the empty cage. You're telling me you'd rather give the ball back to UVA with a chance to score and win a faceoff to tie the game then try to kill off 55 seconds and then 25 seconds and end the game? The only way you lose to to give up the ball. Many coaches don't even want scoring in the empty net in these situations because you risk never getting the ball back.

Make it make sense to me

The first one was Smith trying to pass it to an attackman deep in the offensive zone to beat UVA's 10-man. Don't think that was an intentional strategy to throw it out of bounds. Just too much air on the pass.

The second one with 25 seconds left out of the timeout was very much intentional, and I was fine with it to be honest. It killed 6 seconds and forced Virginia into a full-field clear from their own endline down 2 goals with 19 seconds left. The last thing you want to do is have Bauer get stripped and suddenly UVA has numbers in transition with 20 seconds left. Hoos were doubling the ball out of the timeout and locking everyone else off — it would have been dangerous for Bauer to try to dodge or pass out of that against UVA's pterodactyls. Throw it as high as you can, kill as much clock as possible, and trust that you can prevent them from scoring twice in whatever time is left with UVA having to run the entire field. Some better execution on the pass probably would have killed 10+ seconds instead of 6 and at that point it's pretty much mathematically impossible for UVA to score twice.

I honestly don't get the need for a time out to draw up a play like that. We need to have dodgers and be able to run out the clock without giving back possession.

[10stone5]

Shot clock. As the shot clock winds down if you are not in a position to take a good shot, you dump the ball into the corner so that that the other team has to start its clear from the end line while you sub in defensive personnel.

If that Cornell defenseman had just chucked the ball in that 2009 game against Syracuse, they'd probably have been national champs.

[NNELax]

Shot clock. As the shot clock winds down if you are not in a position to take a good shot, you dump the ball into the corner so that that the other team has to start its clear from the end line while you sub in defensive personnel.

If that Cornell defenseman had just chucked the ball in that 2009 game against Syracuse, they'd probably have been national champs.

+1

[HopFan16]

The Monday quarterbacking is silly. If they didn't call a timeout, and turned it over at the midline to give UVA an easy transition opportunity, there'd be freakouts about not calling the timeout. What they did worked. Probably could have been executed a bit better, but it worked. UVA had 19 seconds to go the full length of the field to score not one but two goals, and they didn't even get a shot off. Game over.

I don't care if you have the best ball carrier in the world, I don't like the idea of that person—trapped in the corner—trying to get through a double team of 6'7'' Cole Kastner and 6'3'' Ben Wayer. He had nowhere to go and no shot at the open goal from there. And a missed shot is basically the same thing as just throwing it high in the air, except it takes less time off the clock (and less time to set up your transition defense). So that wasn't a better option. Same thing for trying to pass out of it — the goalie was out and everyone was shut off. Neither of those would have been smarter than what they did. And if you're looking for ways to choke the game, well, the only way we could have lost was if our ball carrier was immediately stripped, creating an odd-man rush for UVA to score their first goal with 15+ seconds left. Sending it deep in that situation was the only way to ensure the Hoos wouldn't have a quick transition opportunity.

[JHU69]

For many, if not most, we d'ont give a shite about any but the Jays!

[jhu06]

Cuse I guess hasn't played a single game all year outside. It's supposed to rain Saturday morning in Charlotte and you wonder how a young offense that relies on bells and whistles-Quint took a few shots at their showmanship this week, will do in the elements for the first time this spring. Grimes and Peshko have had some solid recent performances. Even though they're veterans, those scouting reports will probably be updated for this weeks game and you'd like to see Melendez really break out.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... rlan/62738

Ierlan's interview with IL after the win had some interesting points
-He was particularly impressed with Crawley in the recruiting process
-He, McDermott, and Callahan knew each other from HS and that was a plus in his recruiting
-The halftime defensive focus against UVA was getting UVA in 6v6 and making them get to the end of the shot clock. They liked their 6v6 matchups against UVA a lot.
-They didn't ask him much against cuse.

[primitiveskills]

Shot clock. As the shot clock winds down if you are not in a position to take a good shot, you dump the ball into the corner so that that the other team has to start its clear from the end line while you sub in defensive personnel.

If that Cornell defenseman had just chucked the ball in that 2009 game against Syracuse, they'd probably have been national champs.

Yup. And I agree with Bauer launching the ball towrd the endline at the end of the game. If it took a TO to get everyone on the same page (and, presumably, your transition D players on the field), that’s fine.

[lacrosseculturedaily]

Check out a full breakdown of the game from PLL Pro Jon Donville

https://lacrosseculturedaily.com/2024/0 ... v-hopkins/

[ColumbiaBlueBlack]

I honestly don't get the need for a time out to draw up a play like that. We need to have dodgers and be able to run out the clock without giving back possession.

Take a close(r) look at where Bauer was and do some math (by the way, Aviles made a great lacrosse play to force the ball oob to set it all up). Let's say Aviles, having forced the ball oob, actually found that ball instantly (unlike endlines, no balls in that area for a quick pickup, so for a quick restart one must play the ball that went oob, wherever that may have been which was likely under the scorer's table), immediately raised his stick, and got a quick whistle to go. In that case, Aviles would have gotten jumped from behind because he was in front of the Va sub box. Va was ready to do that on a sub and they already had a pole on the field directly in front. Or did TV not show that? So, what's the smart call to preserve possession? Call Time Out.

Restart had Bauer directly in front of the Va sub box (where the ball went oob). Bauer could, given 80 on the timer, have gone back across midfield but for the Va pole standing there. In front of Bauer were two condors (pterodactyls if you prefer, but I have a hard time seeing pointy beaks poking through the front of the helmet. Too much like the Black Death.), one shading downfield to cut off the sideline, the other challenging the midfield zone, and the third on the other side of midfield ready to whack. That made >9 feet of arm+pole x 3. Even if the ref had backed 'em the requisite 5 yards (they never do), that means Bauer had one three foot step before two condors took their 3+ foot steps and put sticks/arms/bodies on him. What's the likely outcome? Ranagan running full blast into and through a double team? Except Bauer started from a dead stop. Or, mayhap a turnover directly in front of the Va sub box? And did ya' notice that during the timeout, the Jays put 2/3 of the #1 Rope onto the field? Or did TV not show that either? Might Bauer have put a little less ooomph on the ball and not put it oob? Maybe, but then again, he had to get the ball over the condors.

[norcalhop]

I honestly don't get the need for a time out to draw up a play like that. We need to have dodgers and be able to run out the clock without giving back possession.

Take a close(r) look at where Bauer was and do some math (by the way, Aviles made a great lacrosse play to force the ball oob to set it all up). Let's say Aviles, having forced the ball oob, actually found that ball instantly (unlike endlines, no balls in that area for a quick pickup, so for a quick restart one must play the ball that went oob, wherever that may have been which was likely under the scorer's table), immediately raised his stick, and got a quick whistle to go. In that case, Aviles would have gotten jumped from behind because he was in front of the Va sub box. Va was ready to do that on a sub and they already had a pole on the field directly in front. Or did TV not show that? So, what's the smart call to preserve possession? Call Time Out.

Restart had Bauer directly in front of the Va sub box (where the ball went oob). Bauer could, given 80 on the timer, have gone back across midfield but for the Va pole standing there. In front of Bauer were two condors (pterodactyls if you prefer, but I have a hard time seeing pointy beaks poking through the front of the helmet. Too much like the Black Death.), one shading downfield to cut off the sideline, the other challenging the midfield zone, and the third on the other side of midfield ready to whack. That made >9 feet of arm+pole x 3. Even if the ref had backed 'em the requisite 5 yards (they never do), that means Bauer had one three foot step before two condors took their 3+ foot steps and put sticks/arms/bodies on him. What's the likely outcome? Ranagan running full blast into and through a double team? Except Bauer started from a dead stop. Or, mayhap a turnover directly in front of the Va sub box? And did ya' notice that during the timeout, the Jays put 2/3 of the #1 Rope onto the field? Or did TV not show that either? Might Bauer have put a little less ooomph on the ball and not put it oob? Maybe, but then again, he had to get the ball over the condors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dje7LYgdf1I

1:43 is the play in question. Bauer already had the ball in the same exact position pre as post time-out. There would have been no jumping by UVa via substitution. Giving ball back to UVa (who had time to score with another 11s left had they been successful) with time is not ideal. I would have broken press - are you telling me Hopkins doesn't have a player who can pass and others who can get open despite double teams? Pete Milliman could have also shaved another 3s off the clock by calling time out if the condors had approached. Alls well that ends well I suppose. But I recall Penn State breaking a double team last year late against scott smith and mazzone easily leading to a score.

[51percentcorn]

IMO - the time-out was absolutely the right call. UVA is uniquely qualified to create a turnover in those situations and to the UVA's defensemen's credit they were ready. ANd maybe in that hectic a situation - Bauer doesn't realize he can go backwards. Put it this way - the #1,2 and 3 things that needed to be avoided were a turnover at mid-field. There are 5 choices in the matter after the timeout:
- Have a player try to break the double team - No No and No
- SInce Bauer was double teamed - likely meant Chayse was uncovered - throw it backwards - looming disaster if you screw it up and Bauer has no time to decide after the whistle blows - Kaestner covers the 5 yards in 1 step.
- Make sure the refs interpret the ball leaving his stick as some type of shot on goal - QK's thought - win the race for the endline - maybe #2 option - can't throw it straught up in the air - maybe it hits one of the UVA defensemen or they block it - maybe you lose the race ot the endine
- Throw the ball more on the ground to an open space and play golf with it for as many seconds as you can - alot of incredibly bad things can happen with the option if execution isn't perfect. We contributed to the chapter on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory earlier this year and this option puts penalties on the table
- Do what they did - as 16 said - would have been even better if it could have soaked up some more seconds before re-entry but it worked and clearly PM was telling Bauer what to do with no lack of clarity

In terms of comfort with match-ups - I think they were comfortable with the strategy not necessarily all the match-ups - hence alot of sliding - particularly to 2 or 3 certain people and make the UVA middies beat you. If they play them again they could use a better strategy for Schutz - he's a monster and to date has had a party against Hopkins (7 in 2 games). Chayse bailed them out and UVA missed a couple on the skip passes - the shot right before the shot clock violation was maybe the one UVA wants back more than any - though that shot shuld have never happened if Chayse stays upright winning the race to the end line. Regardless, the third consecutive game where most of the "knowns" have been controlled to a degree - even in the G'town game 2 of Bundy's goals were in the last minute.

[ColumbiaBlueBlack]

1:43 is the play in question. Bauer already had the ball in the same exact position pre as post time-out.

Not quite correct and this demonstrates one problem of relying on what TV chooses to show.

At 1:43 on the game clock, Collison has possession and then scores. Going by the game clock and box score (not that I have a lot of faith in official scorers, but the box is pretty much consistent with my game notes):

00:28 VA Clear attempt by VA failed.
[The box score is out of sequence here because the clear attempt could not have failed until the turnover (see below). Until the ball went oob, it was still in play and could have been cleared. Sheeesh, and here we are playing for Doyle Smith. He would have been apoplectic.]

00:26 VA Turnover by VA John Schroter.
[Aviles made a terrific play, pushing Schroter just before the ball arrived (loose ball was within 5 yards, so no interference), so the ball ticked off Schroter and then oob. TV does not show Aviles' play and thus does not show what Hopkins player (other than Aviles) might have been near enough to the ball to pick it up for a quick restart. At that point, Bauer was not near enough and Aviles was slightly tangled with Schroter, so no quick restart.]

00:25 JHU Timeout by JHU.
[TV picks up only after the Jays have already called timeout. When you see Bauer with the ball in his crosse, with Aviles coming off the field and Virginia sending two condors out there with a third player lurking in the sub box, you also see the ref running in to enforce the already called timeout. Bauer never had the ball pre-timeout]

00:18 JHU Turnover by JHU Dylan Bauer. [I thought maybe 1-2 seconds went by before Bauer launched it to the far corner, so the skyball earned 6-7 seconds]

[51percentcorn]

CBB - I think Norcal.... is saying 1:43 on the Youtube video. When UVA turns the ball over at game clock 26 seconds or whatever - Norcal is quite correct - Bauer immediately steps out and is holding the ball looking at the ref - but two of the UVA raptors are right there as well - so an argument could be made - assuming Bauer would make the right decisions - that letting it go right away means UVA is not AS settled. I prefer the time out let's make sure.

[norcalhop]

CBB - I think Norcal.... is saying 1:43 on the Youtube video. When UVA turns the ball over at game clock 26 seconds or whatever - Norcal is quite correct - Bauer immediately steps out and is holding the ball looking at the ref - but two of the UVA raptors are right there as well - so an argument could be made - assuming Bauer would make the right decisions - that letting it go right away means UVA is not AS settled. I prefer the time out let's make sure.

This. He didn't interpret the timestamp nor the situation correctly, which is ironic. Bauer is very clearly holding the ball before and after the TO.

[LaxAllStars]

2 additional strategies to free up a teammate.

1) use the midline. Step an O player back to the defensive side and break another player over, creating an advantage if the opponent doesn’t match feet.

2) use the sub box the same way. Player subs off on the defensive portion of the sub box, replacement comes on at the offensive end of the box, creating a ten yard advantage and potential outlet. Step a M back on sides.