NovaLax17 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:41 pm
It has always appeared that some programs get the benefit of a "good loss" and some programs do not.
Ranking Cornell at #11 after beating unranked Lehigh by four (17-13), and losing a "close one" ranked Denver would have to based on a "good loss" to Denver.
Ranking Princeton at #18 after beating unranked Monmouth and unranked Manhattan, and losing to ranked Maryland 13-7 must also be based on a "good loss" to Maryland
You know, all due respect to JoeWillie, but these are just one man's opinions.
You're free to start your own thread and post your own weekly rankings. Or, hell, I bet he wouldn't mind if you contributed to his thread by posting your own top 25. Pro Tip: It's not as easy as you might think it is.
I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with a little back-and-forth on his rankings, but you'd have a lot more credibility in doing so if you rolled up your sleeves and put yourself on the line at the same time.
I'll add, as awful as the officiating was in Denver, JoeWillie probably should have ranked Cornell above Denver. The Big Red were the better team on the field, but the officials made sure that that's not what the final scoreboard said.
ICGRad: Your passionate defense of JoeWillie is admirable, but initially, I found it to be unnecessary as JoeWillie subsequently noted politely.
Based on your comments, it appears you missed the prior discussion leading up to my posts. I did not initiate the topic about whether or not schools receive credit for “good losses,” but rather continued a discussion earlier in the thread initiated by JoeWillie, who stated, “ I think I have been pretty consistent on insisting that their is no such thing as a ‘good’ loss.”
I disagreed and argued his Cornell ranking appeared to rely on “good losses,” adding that some programs do receive credit for “good losses” while other programs do not. In this regard, I addressed the subjective, nonscientific nature of lacrosse polling overall, not merely the ranking of one person’s poll on Fanlax. In addition to JoeWillie’s poll, I referenced the media polls and the coaches' poll, and argued at tournament time, these biases come into play. There was no reference to the notion that polling is “easy.”
Polling inaccuracy and seeding are issues that have been discussed in this forum and in Laxpower on numerous occasions. They are inevitable. An opinion on the poll of a fellow lacrosse fan does not require a prior “credibility” analysis dependent upon whether or not the commenter has previously created his own poll or put himself “on the line.” It does not amount to teaching other fans how polling is “done better.” It is simply a conversation where reasonable minds can find different nuances
What's interesting is that I Dinged Cornell more than the other "regular" polls as I believe both still have Cornell in the top 10, and I think Quint has them in his top 10.
Finster wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 1:39 pm
If I’m on Army, I definitely would rather play in the Dome than even on my home field pre-March 15 or so. That mid-50’s forecast this weekend could just as easily be 20degrees with sideways sleet.
I guess Army shouldn't have played Mercer at Michie Stadium last Saturday, given that the weather was probably better in Macon, GA than in West Point, NY.
I'm sure Alberici likes the trips to the Dome, but I truly doubt that he wouldn't prefer a home and home series.
Good for you that you guys can pull this off and are willing to actually do it. But I don't really like the fact that you do it, especially against Army, who, as you noted, has beaten you soundly two years in a row at your place as is deserving of a little more respect.
I am probably not expressing myself well. I do not disagree with you that Army should get a home game versus Syracuse. But what I'm also saying is I bet the Army players prefer playing inside the Dome rather than outside at home in February/early March. I certainly would. One day of practice then the next day a game in a temperate climate, in front of 6,000 fans, when at least 8 Army players hail from upstate NY...I do not think this issue is black and white about 'respect'. This seems to be a win-win.
Antonio114 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:30 pm
Cuse was due for the yearly lecture. Surprised it came so late this year.
It's not a lecture. I was responding to Finster saying that Cuse's opponents "want this" which I think reasonable people would agree is probably not true most of the time.
JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:38 pm
SU isn't going to play Army or Vermont at on the road in early to mid February when they have the Dome.
I get why they wouldn't feel the need to go play in a blizzard in Vermont — Cuse doesn't need that game and can easily find a replacement. But West Point in mid-late February is usually not that bad and that's an important/historic rivalry, you'd think they'd find a way to play it at Army once in awhile. It's in the 50s this week in the Hudson Valley. It's not like some unplayable arctic wasteland, plenty of teams play outside there in Feb or in similar locations. But I guess if Alberici is willing to play in the Dome every year then Cuse is not going to force the issue. I just don't believe that Army would prefer to play that game at Cuse every year — and never at home — as a previous poster insinuated.
If I’m on Army, I definitely would rather play in the Dome than even on my home field pre-March 15 or so. That mid-50’s forecast this weekend could just as easily be 20degrees with sideways sleet. Here are my reasons:
One, my boys and I can warm up pregame and the day before to our hearts content without freezing our peanuts off.
Two, road trips are bonding opportunities, especially away from the instructors at West Point. We might even sleep in the day of the game.
Three, I’d rather play in front of 6,000 hostile fans in a Dome than 100 freezing fans at home. Any. Freaking. Day. You live for this stuff as a player.
Agree on all except "hostile fans". Proud to say that Cuse fans always express their gratitude to the armed forces and give Army and Navy a warm and deserved greeting including standing ovations by many when they come out .
Army and Rutgers have had a home and home series for I believe 84 years, lately exclusively in Feb. Army would not mind playing Syracuse in WP in Feb. In fact, I'd bet good money they'd welcome it. Syracuse needs to leave the Dome once in awhile.
Antonio114 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:30 pm
Cuse was due for the yearly lecture. Surprised it came so late this year.
It's not a lecture. I was responding to Finster saying that Cuse's opponents "want this" which I think reasonable people would agree is probably not true most of the time.
JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:38 pm
SU isn't going to play Army or Vermont at on the road in early to mid February when they have the Dome.
I get why they wouldn't feel the need to go play in a blizzard in Vermont — Cuse doesn't need that game and can easily find a replacement. But West Point in mid-late February is usually not that bad and that's an important/historic rivalry, you'd think they'd find a way to play it at Army once in awhile. It's in the 50s this week in the Hudson Valley. It's not like some unplayable arctic wasteland, plenty of teams play outside there in Feb or in similar locations. But I guess if Alberici is willing to play in the Dome every year then Cuse is not going to force the issue. I just don't believe that Army would prefer to play that game at Cuse every year — and never at home — as a previous poster insinuated.
If I’m on Army, I definitely would rather play in the Dome than even on my home field pre-March 15 or so. That mid-50’s forecast this weekend could just as easily be 20degrees with sideways sleet. Here are my reasons:
One, my boys and I can warm up pregame and the day before to our hearts content without freezing our peanuts off.
Two, road trips are bonding opportunities, especially away from the instructors at West Point. We might even sleep in the day of the game.
Three, I’d rather play in front of 6,000 hostile fans in a Dome than 100 freezing fans at home. Any. Freaking. Day. You live for this stuff as a player.
Agree on all except "hostile fans". Proud to say that Cuse fans always express their gratitude to the armed forces and give Army and Navy a warm and deserved greeting including standing ovations by many when they come out .
I used the incorrect adjective. I meant 'opposing' rather than hostile. I think the Syracuse fans are the most respectful in the nation tbh. Knowledgeable plus patriotic.
Antonio114 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:30 pm
Cuse was due for the yearly lecture. Surprised it came so late this year.
It's not a lecture. I was responding to Finster saying that Cuse's opponents "want this" which I think reasonable people would agree is probably not true most of the time.
JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:38 pm
SU isn't going to play Army or Vermont at on the road in early to mid February when they have the Dome.
I get why they wouldn't feel the need to go play in a blizzard in Vermont — Cuse doesn't need that game and can easily find a replacement. But West Point in mid-late February is usually not that bad and that's an important/historic rivalry, you'd think they'd find a way to play it at Army once in awhile. It's in the 50s this week in the Hudson Valley. It's not like some unplayable arctic wasteland, plenty of teams play outside there in Feb or in similar locations. But I guess if Alberici is willing to play in the Dome every year then Cuse is not going to force the issue. I just don't believe that Army would prefer to play that game at Cuse every year — and never at home — as a previous poster insinuated.
If I’m on Army, I definitely would rather play in the Dome than even on my home field pre-March 15 or so. That mid-50’s forecast this weekend could just as easily be 20degrees with sideways sleet. Here are my reasons:
One, my boys and I can warm up pregame and the day before to our hearts content without freezing our peanuts off.
Two, road trips are bonding opportunities, especially away from the instructors at West Point. We might even sleep in the day of the game.
Three, I’d rather play in front of 6,000 hostile fans in a Dome than 100 freezing fans at home. Any. Freaking. Day. You live for this stuff as a player.
Agree on all except "hostile fans". Proud to say that Cuse fans always express their gratitude to the armed forces and give Army and Navy a warm and deserved greeting including standing ovations by many when they come out .
I used the incorrect adjective. I meant 'opposing' rather than hostile. I think the Syracuse fans are the most respectful in the nation tbh. Knowledgeable plus patriotic.
Maybe do the game at Michie next year? I promise to buy you a beer.
Antonio114 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:30 pm
Cuse was due for the yearly lecture. Surprised it came so late this year.
It's not a lecture. I was responding to Finster saying that Cuse's opponents "want this" which I think reasonable people would agree is probably not true most of the time.
JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:38 pm
SU isn't going to play Army or Vermont at on the road in early to mid February when they have the Dome.
I get why they wouldn't feel the need to go play in a blizzard in Vermont — Cuse doesn't need that game and can easily find a replacement. But West Point in mid-late February is usually not that bad and that's an important/historic rivalry, you'd think they'd find a way to play it at Army once in awhile. It's in the 50s this week in the Hudson Valley. It's not like some unplayable arctic wasteland, plenty of teams play outside there in Feb or in similar locations. But I guess if Alberici is willing to play in the Dome every year then Cuse is not going to force the issue. I just don't believe that Army would prefer to play that game at Cuse every year — and never at home — as a previous poster insinuated.
If I’m on Army, I definitely would rather play in the Dome than even on my home field pre-March 15 or so. That mid-50’s forecast this weekend could just as easily be 20degrees with sideways sleet. Here are my reasons:
One, my boys and I can warm up pregame and the day before to our hearts content without freezing our peanuts off.
Two, road trips are bonding opportunities, especially away from the instructors at West Point. We might even sleep in the day of the game.
Three, I’d rather play in front of 6,000 hostile fans in a Dome than 100 freezing fans at home. Any. Freaking. Day. You live for this stuff as a player.
Agree on all except "hostile fans". Proud to say that Cuse fans always express their gratitude to the armed forces and give Army and Navy a warm and deserved greeting including standing ovations by many when they come out .
I used the incorrect adjective. I meant 'opposing' rather than hostile. I think the Syracuse fans are the most respectful in the nation tbh. Knowledgeable plus patriotic.
Maybe do the game at Michie next year? I promise to buy you a beer.
I'd take it! Thanks.
It would be interesting to hear if Army gets a home game versus Syracuse for '25.
I should know the answer to this, but I don't: does anyone know the process to organize OOC schedules in D1 lacrosse? Back in my day, this was mostly a coach-to-coach, AD-to-AD dialogue and organizing. But I suspect today it's far more complicated. Does Gait ask Alberici if he's interested? Does the NCAA force this? Does television have a say? Who decides on the venue?
Antonio114 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:30 pm
Cuse was due for the yearly lecture. Surprised it came so late this year.
It's not a lecture. I was responding to Finster saying that Cuse's opponents "want this" which I think reasonable people would agree is probably not true most of the time.
JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:38 pm
SU isn't going to play Army or Vermont at on the road in early to mid February when they have the Dome.
I get why they wouldn't feel the need to go play in a blizzard in Vermont — Cuse doesn't need that game and can easily find a replacement. But West Point in mid-late February is usually not that bad and that's an important/historic rivalry, you'd think they'd find a way to play it at Army once in awhile. It's in the 50s this week in the Hudson Valley. It's not like some unplayable arctic wasteland, plenty of teams play outside there in Feb or in similar locations. But I guess if Alberici is willing to play in the Dome every year then Cuse is not going to force the issue. I just don't believe that Army would prefer to play that game at Cuse every year — and never at home — as a previous poster insinuated.
If I’m on Army, I definitely would rather play in the Dome than even on my home field pre-March 15 or so. That mid-50’s forecast this weekend could just as easily be 20degrees with sideways sleet. Here are my reasons:
One, my boys and I can warm up pregame and the day before to our hearts content without freezing our peanuts off.
Two, road trips are bonding opportunities, especially away from the instructors at West Point. We might even sleep in the day of the game.
Three, I’d rather play in front of 6,000 hostile fans in a Dome than 100 freezing fans at home. Any. Freaking. Day. You live for this stuff as a player.
Agree on all except "hostile fans". Proud to say that Cuse fans always express their gratitude to the armed forces and give Army and Navy a warm and deserved greeting including standing ovations by many when they come out .
I used the incorrect adjective. I meant 'opposing' rather than hostile. I think the Syracuse fans are the most respectful in the nation tbh. Knowledgeable plus patriotic.
Maybe do the game at Michie next year? I promise to buy you a beer.
I'd take it! Thanks.
It would be interesting to hear if Army gets a home game versus Syracuse for '25.
I should know the answer to this, but I don't: does anyone know the process to organize OOC schedules in D1 lacrosse? Back in my day, this was mostly a coach-to-coach, AD-to-AD dialogue and organizing. But I suspect today it's far more complicated. Does Gait ask Alberici if he's interested? Does the NCAA force this? Does television have a say? Who decides on the venue?
Before Gait took over, the Director of Lacrosse Opps for SU (Roy Simmons III) I think would be the main person putting the schedule together. When Gait signed on he said he was taking over that job. Not sure who is doing it for other teams, but I get the sense that Gait is talking to other head coaches when putting together the schedule.
Antonio114 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:30 pm
Cuse was due for the yearly lecture. Surprised it came so late this year.
It's not a lecture. I was responding to Finster saying that Cuse's opponents "want this" which I think reasonable people would agree is probably not true most of the time.
JeremyCuse wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:38 pm
SU isn't going to play Army or Vermont at on the road in early to mid February when they have the Dome.
I get why they wouldn't feel the need to go play in a blizzard in Vermont — Cuse doesn't need that game and can easily find a replacement. But West Point in mid-late February is usually not that bad and that's an important/historic rivalry, you'd think they'd find a way to play it at Army once in awhile. It's in the 50s this week in the Hudson Valley. It's not like some unplayable arctic wasteland, plenty of teams play outside there in Feb or in similar locations. But I guess if Alberici is willing to play in the Dome every year then Cuse is not going to force the issue. I just don't believe that Army would prefer to play that game at Cuse every year — and never at home — as a previous poster insinuated.
If I’m on Army, I definitely would rather play in the Dome than even on my home field pre-March 15 or so. That mid-50’s forecast this weekend could just as easily be 20degrees with sideways sleet. Here are my reasons:
One, my boys and I can warm up pregame and the day before to our hearts content without freezing our peanuts off.
Two, road trips are bonding opportunities, especially away from the instructors at West Point. We might even sleep in the day of the game.
Three, I’d rather play in front of 6,000 hostile fans in a Dome than 100 freezing fans at home. Any. Freaking. Day. You live for this stuff as a player.
Agree on all except "hostile fans". Proud to say that Cuse fans always express their gratitude to the armed forces and give Army and Navy a warm and deserved greeting including standing ovations by many when they come out .
I used the incorrect adjective. I meant 'opposing' rather than hostile. I think the Syracuse fans are the most respectful in the nation tbh. Knowledgeable plus patriotic.
Maybe do the game at Michie next year? I promise to buy you a beer.
I'd take it! Thanks.
It would be interesting to hear if Army gets a home game versus Syracuse for '25.
I should know the answer to this, but I don't: does anyone know the process to organize OOC schedules in D1 lacrosse? Back in my day, this was mostly a coach-to-coach, AD-to-AD dialogue and organizing. But I suspect today it's far more complicated. Does Gait ask Alberici if he's interested? Does the NCAA force this? Does television have a say? Who decides on the venue?
Before Gait took over, the Director of Lacrosse Opps for SU (Roy Simmons III) I think would be the main person putting the schedule together. When Gait signed on he said he was taking over that job. Not sure who is doing it for other teams, but I get the sense that Gait is talking to other head coaches when putting together the schedule.
HopFan16 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2024 1:01 pm
I have no problem with Duke at #1. They started the season at #1 or #2 in most polls and are destroying teams. It's not like they've looked bad.
The poll is not a ranking of tournament resumes. If it was, the top 10 would look much different than just Duke being lower.
I think 4 games in you can throw out the preseason rankings. I'd like to see Duke face some more formidable competition before I put them #1 over teams that have already faced a tougher set of teams and proven themselves. Syracuse also blew teams out until they faced Maryland. Notre Dame blew teams out until they faced Georgetown. Meanwhile, Virginia is winning games against stronger competition by 4 / 6/ 8 goals. Lets see how Duke fairs against Penn -- a very well coached top 20 team that can grind against anybody. Will be a better test of their relative strength.
joewillie78 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:34 pm
Can't wait to post my top 20 come Sunday afternoon, with everything that has already happened.
How far will Duke tumble, How high will Army ascend.
D1 lacrosse is crazy, and the weekend is just getting started.
Gobigred
Joewillie78
D1 lacrosse needs a schedule commissioner, it’s beyond stupid how all the games are on at the same time, Sunday would be a great lacrosse day if Duke vs Princeton was at 2pm
joewillie78 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:34 pm
Can't wait to post my top 20 come Sunday afternoon, with everything that has already happened.
How far will Duke tumble, How high will Army ascend.
D1 lacrosse is crazy, and the weekend is just getting started.
Gobigred
Joewillie78
D1 lacrosse needs a schedule commissioner, it’s beyond stupid how all the games are on at the same time, Sunday would be a great lacrosse day if Duke vs Princeton was at 2pm
And ND vs Maryland was on at 4pm
same thing with Saturday with some of the games
Last night was fun to watch back to back games, except for the rain. But the realities of Saturday early afternoon times make sense. Most teams are taking a bus up or down I-95, which they'd rather not do at midnight. Many teams also do a post-game tailgate with the families after the game which is also better in the afternoon. Plus something like 100% of the players would prefer to be back home for the parties instead of on a bus in Trenton.
joewillie78 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 8:34 pm
Can't wait to post my top 20 come Sunday afternoon, with everything that has already happened.
How far will Duke tumble, How high will Army ascend.
D1 lacrosse is crazy, and the weekend is just getting started.
Gobigred
Joewillie78
D1 lacrosse needs a schedule commissioner, it’s beyond stupid how all the games are on at the same time, Sunday would be a great lacrosse day if Duke vs Princeton was at 2pm
And ND vs Maryland was on at 4pm
same thing with Saturday with some of the games
Last night was fun to watch back to back games, except for the rain. But the realities of Saturday early afternoon times make sense. Most teams are taking a bus up or down I-95, which they'd rather not do at midnight. Many teams also do a post-game tailgate with the families after the game which is also better in the afternoon. Plus something like 100% of the players would prefer to be back home for the parties instead of on a bus in Trenton.
What year are you talking about, lmao every player would love to play in a stand alone 4pm Sunday game, it’s like MNF they know everyone in the lax world his watching.
JW to your point about it being a crazy season - if UVA were to lose to Hopkins today, that would be all 5 teams losing to an OOC team in a week without a win (up to that point in the week). I don’t have the data but i would bet a ton that has never happened before.
