January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[jhu72]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

... Trump and Hitler is a bad comparison. The better is Trump and Mussolini. I think that was sort of Turnball's point. Trump sniffing Putin's ass, looking for attention and approval, the way Mussolini did Hitler's. It doesn't really matter, Trump is a fascist in his own right (no pun intended), this has been proven to a certainty.

[jhu72]

This will likely have impact on other J6 cases.

[MDlaxfan76]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

... Trump and Hitler is a bad comparison. The better is Trump and Mussolini. I think that was sort of Turnball's point. Trump sniffing Putin's ass, looking for attention and approval, the way Mussolini did Hitler's. It doesn't really matter, Trump is a fascist in his own right (no pun intended), this has been proven to a certainty.

I think it began with Maddow's warning and morphed into "Hitler" when cradle went off about such comparisons.

The Aussie's point may have been more about the sniffing, ala Mussolini, but as the US is the most powerful military and economy in the world, dwarfing Russia, the concern we should also have is not only some form of ugly fascism here in the US (alone being very alarming!) and buddying up to Putin, but also that there would be no comparable countervailing party in the world.

[MDlaxfan76]

This will likely have impact on other J6 cases.

Yes, though not major...I'd have gone after this particular a-hole with the seditious conspiracy charges if they had anything at all on his communication with others. The guy came in combat gear and with zip ties? He had a plan and likely was part of a plan...maybe they didn't have enough of his communications to do so. They were pretty tentative about those charges, seemed to me, only applying them to actual formally affiliated groups. But any agreement to go in expecting violence and intent to capture others...

[jhu72]

This will likely have impact on other J6 cases.

Yes, though not major...I'd have gone after this particular a-hole with the seditious conspiracy charges if they had anything at all on his communication with others. The guy came in combat gear and with zip ties? He had a plan and likely was part of a plan...maybe they didn't have enough of his communications to do so. They were pretty tentative about those charges, seemed to me, only applying them to actual formally affiliated groups. But any agreement to go in expecting violence and intent to capture others...

... maybe couple dozen is the speculation I heard. Is this the guy that brought is mother with him, left her outside?

[cradleandshoot]

This will likely have impact on other J6 cases.

Yes, though not major...I'd have gone after this particular a-hole with the seditious conspiracy charges if they had anything at all on his communication with others. The guy came in combat gear and with zip ties? He had a plan and likely was part of a plan...maybe they didn't have enough of his communications to do so. They were pretty tentative about those charges, seemed to me, only applying them to actual formally affiliated groups. But any agreement to go in expecting violence and intent to capture others...

Is it illegal to dress in combat gear and carry zip ties? I have zip ties in my emergency kit in my car trunk. Does that make me a WNC or a just a guy who understands the million and one uses for zip ties? I don't understand why so many people get their rocks off wearing combat clothing. If you wanna play GI Joe then go and raise your paw and join. I couldn't wait until I could wear Levi's and a tee shirt.

[SCLaxAttack]

This will likely have impact on other J6 cases.

Yes, though not major...I'd have gone after this particular a-hole with the seditious conspiracy charges if they had anything at all on his communication with others. The guy came in combat gear and with zip ties? He had a plan and likely was part of a plan...maybe they didn't have enough of his communications to do so. They were pretty tentative about those charges, seemed to me, only applying them to actual formally affiliated groups. But any agreement to go in expecting violence and intent to capture others...

Is it illegal to dress in combat gear and carry zip ties? I have zip ties in my emergency kit in my car trunk. Does that make me a WNC or a just a guy who understands the million and one uses for zip ties? I don't understand why so many people get their rocks off wearing combat clothing. If you wanna play GI Joe then go and raise your paw and join. I couldn't wait until I could wear Levi's and a tee shirt.

Cradle does have a point here. After all, I’d guess the building’s detection devices don’t identify plastic carried in one’s pockets. And zip ties do serve many purposes. As a dedicated patriot maybe he was anticipating finding loose plumbing insulation in a bathroom and wanted to be prepared to tighten it back onto the pipes.

J. F. C.

[PizzaSnake]

This will likely have impact on other J6 cases.

Yes, though not major...I'd have gone after this particular a-hole with the seditious conspiracy charges if they had anything at all on his communication with others. The guy came in combat gear and with zip ties? He had a plan and likely was part of a plan...maybe they didn't have enough of his communications to do so. They were pretty tentative about those charges, seemed to me, only applying them to actual formally affiliated groups. But any agreement to go in expecting violence and intent to capture others...

Is it illegal to dress in combat gear and carry zip ties? I have zip ties in my emergency kit in my car trunk. Does that make me a WNC or a just a guy who understands the million and one uses for zip ties? I don't understand why so many people get their rocks off wearing combat clothing. If you wanna play GI Joe then go and raise your paw and join. I couldn't wait until I could wear Levi's and a tee shirt.

Cradle does have a point here. After all, I’d guess the building’s detection devices don’t identify plastic carried in one’s pockets. And zip ties do serve many purposes. As a dedicated patriot maybe he was anticipating finding loose plumbing insulation in a bathroom and wanted to be prepared to tighten it back onto the pipes.

J. F. C.

I’m hoping they embrace erotic auto-asphyxiation and use zip ties…

[CU88a]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

I am just checking to see if CS sent you all of those articles about Libs boldly & clearly stating 2xIMPOTUS o d being more dangerous than Hitler. I must have missed a post as I have been collecting zip ties for my grandchildren to take to their future school class tours of the US Capitol. I want them to be prepared good little patriots...

[cradleandshoot]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

I am just checking to see if CS sent you all of those articles about Libs boldly & clearly stating 2xIMPOTUS o d being more dangerous than Hitler. I must have missed a post as I have been collecting zip ties for my grandchildren to take to their future school class tours of the US Capitol. I want them to be prepared good little patriots...

You miss a lot...

[MDlaxfan76]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

I am just checking to see if CS sent you all of those articles about Libs boldly & clearly stating 2xIMPOTUS o d being more dangerous than Hitler. I must have missed a post as I have been collecting zip ties for my grandchildren to take to their future school class tours of the US Capitol. I want them to be prepared good little patriots...

You miss a lot...

So...share these articles making that claim.

[cradleandshoot]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

I am just checking to see if CS sent you all of those articles about Libs boldly & clearly stating 2xIMPOTUS o d being more dangerous than Hitler. I must have missed a post as I have been collecting zip ties for my grandchildren to take to their future school class tours of the US Capitol. I want them to be prepared good little patriots...

You miss a lot...

So...share these articles making that claim.

My neighbor has been forwarding this stuff to me in large volumes. I have deleted most of them because I have no interest in the sludge being propagated by both sides. Why don't you try a Google search? I'm sure you'll find the wing nut rhetoric is powerful on a very wise spectrum.

[cradleandshoot]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

I am just checking to see if CS sent you all of those articles about Libs boldly & clearly stating 2xIMPOTUS o d being more dangerous than Hitler. I must have missed a post as I have been collecting zip ties for my grandchildren to take to their future school class tours of the US Capitol. I want them to be prepared good little patriots...

You miss a lot...

So...share these articles making that claim.

My neighbor has been forwarding this stuff to me in large volumes. I have deleted most of them because I have no interest in the sludge being propagated by both sides. Why don't you try a Google search? I'm sure you'll find the wing nut rhetoric is powerful on a very wise spectrum.

[MDlaxfan76]

Looks like MSNBC has already crumbled, and is spreading the word: https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1763045 ... 04498?s=20

Well, if Collin Rugg says so, then that’s it!!!

Nah....that's the sheppard speaking to her sheep, Maddow.

Maddow is correct.
As President with absolute immunity, he can and very likely will remain in office until his death.

You need to pay attention to what these a-holes actually say, youth.

They're promising to fire or jail or otherwise punish any who stand in their way, any political opponent, media opponent, judge, lawyer, general, whoever... anyone for that matter who refuses to swear fealty or is suspected of not being truly loyal, and they're claiming in court and in public that if the President orders assassinations of his opponents, that's a Presidential order and must be carried out, and he's immune from prosecution. Full on, that's what they say. They're full-on serious.

They're promising mass concentration camps and round ups of undocumented immigrants. They'd previously promised Muslim bans and though that was stymied when they didn't have absolute control, that's a promise they'll likely return to. Expect it of anyone they consider 'undesirable'...that's certain to include LGBTQ.

Moreover, we're seeing at the state level what happens when full MAGA control of government is able to be exercised and it's very ugly, Gilead-like stuff. If the federal level brakes are no longer able to be applied at all, expect the full on worst to be emboldened.

Salty will get his civil war.

. Keep your security blanket close. You all have fallen off the deep end.

My neighbor and fellow Bills fan has jumped on the he hates trump bandwagon. Apparently in some circles trump is more dangerous than Hitler. I wasn't aware of that fact. I just thought trump was more of a run of the mill jerkweed.

It is less Trump than the movement he leads. Try hard to understand that. Your neighbor and fellow Bills fan (sad) is right.

So trump is worse than Hitler ever was? To my knowledge he hasn't killed a single Jew yet. I thought his movement was the Republican party?? Any idea where the concentration camps will be built? Will the crematoriums have to environmentally friendly?? Do you really think this asinine rhetoric is helpful? So what this country has is bat crap crazy people on both ends of the political spectrum.

I haven't seen the "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" statement made. Not by anyone credible or prominent.

On the other hand, lots of quite valid comparisons, similarities as well as contrasts.

As you point out, Hitler had quite a terrible run in control of Germany for over a decade ('34-'45) as the leader of the Nazi movement. 6 million murdered and millions more killed through a war of massive aggression. That didn't happen overnight.

Nor did the Nazi movement which had begun a decade earlier, indeed the Nazis failed a violent coup attempt under Hitler in '23. But that attempt didn't end the movement. The goals of the Nazi movement were quite explicit, spoken and written, and yet many did not take them seriously, and considered them merely an extremist group on the far right. Others agreed with their goals and just thought their promises would be moderated by the legalities involved.

In the early 30's the country was still a constitutional republic, though very fragile and with a multi-party system in which the Nazis gained the largest share with a high point of only 37% of the votes in '32 and lower, 33% in '33. Hitler himself was not elected, rather he was appointed by President Hindenburg as Chancellor in '33 under the mistaken belief by some around Hindenburg that they could use the Nazis to their own benefit...but Hitler immediately began the destruction of personal liberties and establishing the mechanisms for full control consistent with Nazi ideology. Those legal constraints were destroyed. And when Hindenburg died, Hitler declared himself Fuhrer and a full-on dictatorship was established by a party with less than 40% support, indeed only about a third of the population's support.

The process with MAGA has not been and will not be identical and it's still in a state more analogous to the Nazis in the '20's and early '30's than to '34-45.

But they are promising, as did the Nazis, massive removal of liberties for some in America, a radical re-shaping, ridding the country of "socialists" (Nazi "communists"), with Democrats equivalent to "socialists", ridding the country of "traitors" (RINOs...Nazi other party leaders including initial allies), ridding the country of religious outliers (Muslim ban), a national registry of undesirables (eg Muslim registry), concentration camps for immigrants (and other undesirables) (note the Nazis didn't promise crematoriums but they did use language associated with extermination eg vermin and rats, with existential implications eg "poisoning the blood of our country")...

I can go on and on about these similarities, including the NAZI utilization of religious bias to justify various actions, a bargain made by some religious people with the Nazis to attain their goals...here we're seeing the bargain over abortion turning to really radical directions of control over women, by people who truly believe in full on patriarchy and the subordinated 'role of women' and the further bargain being the ridding of the country of acceptance of LGBTQ...how far will that go in order to achieve these religiously based aims by people who believe that all such "sins" should be "cleansed"?

You find all of this given full throated voice in the MAGA movement, and embraced as valid by their Leader albeit, like Hitler, Trump sometimes obscures these aims as he seeks increased political support...note, he doesn't have full power yet...it's pre-1934.

And he and his followers are flat out promising that once they take control, their chief aim will be retribution. They mean it.

Is "Trump worse than Hitler ever was"? Not yet.
But if he and MAGA succeed, they may well might be much worse.

How do we weigh the risk that the US falls to such authoritarian rule in a world in which there would be no other economic or military capacity remotely comparable to carry the banner of democracy and freedom? A world in which the largest powers by a wide margin are all authoritarian? Do they divide up and subjugate the rest of the world or fight over it?

Is that risk even worse than the global threat of Nazi Germany?
After all, at that point in time, England was the counterpoint democracy in power, with the US a rising democratic power.

But that is NOT what the radical FLP trump haters are saying. My neighbor has forwarded a number of articles to me that boldly and clearly state that trump is more dangerous than Hitler. His primary source is his PhD son who teaches poly sci at a small Catholic college in PA. Some of the chit forwarded to me is stunning in its anger, vitriol and down right hatred. I thought it was the right wing nuts that preached this hatred. I guess the left wing nuts are getting in the game as well. So what particular version of hatred and intolerance is a person suppose to believe?? This is what both sides are bringing to the table. Shame on all of them, the USA as we knew it is circling the drain and headed for hell in a hand basket.
Republicans and Democrats and all go screw yourselves as far as I'm concerned. I hope some viable 3rd party alternative steps forward. This ain't the country I was willing to fight and die for. If I hear one more politician blabbering about the rule of law I will

Please share with us these "articles" and we'll take a look at what they're saying and the credibility and/or prominence of the authors.

I have no doubt that people see the parallels to Hitler and Nazism for Trump and MAGA, similar to what I've described...and several other really awful authoritarians in history. Those who academically study these topics certainly do see these parallels.

But the statement "Trump is worse than Hitler ever was" would seem unfounded...as yet. Give him a decade, maybe he'll exceed Hitler, but it won't be in 2024.

Or did you exaggerate those articles?

I am just checking to see if CS sent you all of those articles about Libs boldly & clearly stating 2xIMPOTUS o d being more dangerous than Hitler. I must have missed a post as I have been collecting zip ties for my grandchildren to take to their future school class tours of the US Capitol. I want them to be prepared good little patriots...

You miss a lot...

So...share these articles making that claim.

My neighbor has been forwarding this stuff to me in large volumes. I have deleted most of them because I have no interest in the sludge being propagated by both sides. Why don't you try a Google search? I'm sure you'll find the wing nut rhetoric is powerful on a very wise spectrum.

No, nothing comes up remotely so extreme.

This is on you to support...show us the articles making such extreme claims...ask your neighbor...

or...just admit you were exaggerating.

[tech37]

I guess I'm not understanding how this ruling came about. Isn't the concept of innocent until proven guilty a foundation of our legal system? The last time I checked trump hasn't been convicted of any offense yet. Would that not be the Colorado court putting the cart before the horse? They are taking punitive action against a man who is still technically innocent. Is my logic flawed or is there something here that I'm missing? If by some reason trump is cleared of the conspiracy charges against him then the Colorado ruling becomes meaningless. If trump is convicted and I believe he will then there is merit to the Colorado ruling.

Sorry I can't speak on legal aspects C&S but sure looks like Democrat desperation (see polls) and doesn't look much like, what most I think consider, democracy. Buckle up, it's only going to get worse.

Ignorant response, do a little research to educate yourself on who filed the initial lawsuit.

Ignorant? Maybe. Maybe you can't read?

I clearly said I can't speak to legal aspects...if that's ignorant, I'm guilty. I know enough to ask if this is constitutional?

I'm not taking any side here, just trying to make sense from a layman's POV. Outside of lawyerly interpretation, I doubt this is anyone's idea of democracy. I couldn't care less who filed what initial lawsuit... it all stinks. Capiche?

Well bummer CU88. Based on my comments a couple months ago and considering the SCOTUS ruling... who is ignorant?

[youthathletics]

I guess I'm not understanding how this ruling came about. Isn't the concept of innocent until proven guilty a foundation of our legal system? The last time I checked trump hasn't been convicted of any offense yet. Would that not be the Colorado court putting the cart before the horse? They are taking punitive action against a man who is still technically innocent. Is my logic flawed or is there something here that I'm missing? If by some reason trump is cleared of the conspiracy charges against him then the Colorado ruling becomes meaningless. If trump is convicted and I believe he will then there is merit to the Colorado ruling.

Sorry I can't speak on legal aspects C&S but sure looks like Democrat desperation (see polls) and doesn't look much like, what most I think consider, democracy. Buckle up, it's only going to get worse.

Ignorant response, do a little research to educate yourself on who filed the initial lawsuit.

Ignorant? Maybe. Maybe you can't read?

I clearly said I can't speak to legal aspects...if that's ignorant, I'm guilty. I know enough to ask if this is constitutional?

I'm not taking any side here, just trying to make sense from a layman's POV. Outside of lawyerly interpretation, I doubt this is anyone's idea of democracy. I couldn't care less who filed what initial lawsuit... it all stinks. Capiche?

Well bummer CU88. Based on my comments a couple months ago and considering the SCOTUS ruling... who is ignorant?

https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/176467 ... 82380?s=20

[cradleandshoot]

Nine to zippo. Even the 3 libs agreed. Gonna be hard for the usual suspects here to have a hissy fit. Y'all remember who you are? Your the ones who screamed at me at the top of your lungs telling me this decision by the Colorado Supremes was perfectly fine. Guess y'all were wrong for the first time ever.

[dislaxxic]

Believe the CO Supreme Court (or was it a lower court?) found, after a trial, that insurrection was in fact committed.

..

[a fan]

I guess I'm not understanding how this ruling came about. Isn't the concept of innocent until proven guilty a foundation of our legal system? The last time I checked trump hasn't been convicted of any offense yet. Would that not be the Colorado court putting the cart before the horse? They are taking punitive action against a man who is still technically innocent. Is my logic flawed or is there something here that I'm missing? If by some reason trump is cleared of the conspiracy charges against him then the Colorado ruling becomes meaningless. If trump is convicted and I believe he will then there is merit to the Colorado ruling.

Sorry I can't speak on legal aspects C&S but sure looks like Democrat desperation (see polls) and doesn't look much like, what most I think consider, democracy. Buckle up, it's only going to get worse.

Ignorant response, do a little research to educate yourself on who filed the initial lawsuit.

Ignorant? Maybe. Maybe you can't read?

I clearly said I can't speak to legal aspects...if that's ignorant, I'm guilty. I know enough to ask if this is constitutional?

I'm not taking any side here, just trying to make sense from a layman's POV. Outside of lawyerly interpretation, I doubt this is anyone's idea of democracy. I couldn't care less who filed what initial lawsuit... it all stinks. Capiche?

Well bummer CU88. Based on my comments a couple months ago and considering the SCOTUS ruling... who is ignorant?

https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/176467 ... 82380?s=20

Win-win.

Trump gets on the ballot, as he should be.

Also, this is hopefully a Trojan Horse, although we'll have to see the ruling. The Federal Government voted, unanimously, no less, that the Federal Government gets to how direct State Elections are run. If I'm sick of Gerrymandering, affecting Federal elections, I'm suing immediately.

....careful what you ask for, Republicans.....

[Kismet]

Nine to zippo. Even the 3 libs agreed. Gonna be hard for the usual suspects here to have a hissy fit. Y'all remember who you are? Your the ones who screamed at me at the top of your lungs telling me this decision by the Colorado Supremes was perfectly fine. Guess y'all were wrong for the first time ever.

Read the effing opinion Einstein, there was disagreement on how to resolve the issue going forward whether it be Congress or some other method but NOT the states.

Nuance is something you don't possess. Typical from you to miss the entire point.