Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

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cradleandshoot
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by cradleandshoot »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:08 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:02 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:05 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:25 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:20 pmYou have your excuses at the ready as to why he can't pass an immigration bill?
SCOTUS just gave Trump DE FACTO IMMUNITY.

His MAGA vigilante brownshirts will be forcibly removing illegals and stocking the Rio Grande with piranha. How's THAT for an immigration bill!?!

..
... may very well give Trump immunity. I did not think they would, but it is looking more likely, not a certainty, with this ruling today. If so the USA is broken beyond repair. What is certain is this court is giving him the delay he wants. It is time for people who believe in democracy to pick up the gun and prepare to use it to defend the democracy. Trump is not the problem. In a fair election, Trump cannot win. It is the dedicated fascists he and his enablers have enabled who intend to keep the election from being fair.
:roll: you need a doctor...doc. Your brain is closing in on resembling a poached egg.
... little hypocritical of you. Been telling us all the virtues of guns and how great they are for protecting your family. Apparently you have changed your mind. :lol:
Your incorrect as usual doc surprise surprise. The decision to purchase a weapon for home defense is a decision not to made lightly. Let me correct your wrongness yet again. AR 15 type weapons are a poor choice for home defense. If you like plinking and have a functional range and can afford the pricey ammo then knock yourself out. My home defense weapon of choice is a single shot 410 shotgun. I was even responsible enough to purchase " less lethal ammo" :D What is your plan to defend your home? It might take awhile for the fuzz to arrive. I suppose you could try talking to them. That should put the bad actors in a coma relatively quickly. :D
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youthathletics
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by youthathletics »

Tell us why the border is a train wreck right now? https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/176295 ... 18198?s=20
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
jhu72
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:04 am
jhu72 wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:08 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:02 am
jhu72 wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:05 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:25 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:20 pmYou have your excuses at the ready as to why he can't pass an immigration bill?
SCOTUS just gave Trump DE FACTO IMMUNITY.

His MAGA vigilante brownshirts will be forcibly removing illegals and stocking the Rio Grande with piranha. How's THAT for an immigration bill!?!

..
... may very well give Trump immunity. I did not think they would, but it is looking more likely, not a certainty, with this ruling today. If so the USA is broken beyond repair. What is certain is this court is giving him the delay he wants. It is time for people who believe in democracy to pick up the gun and prepare to use it to defend the democracy. Trump is not the problem. In a fair election, Trump cannot win. It is the dedicated fascists he and his enablers have enabled who intend to keep the election from being fair.
:roll: you need a doctor...doc. Your brain is closing in on resembling a poached egg.
... little hypocritical of you. Been telling us all the virtues of guns and how great they are for protecting your family. Apparently you have changed your mind. :lol:
Your incorrect as usual doc surprise surprise. The decision to purchase a weapon for home defense is a decision not to made lightly. Let me correct your wrongness yet again. AR 15 type weapons are a poor choice for home defense. If you like plinking and have a functional range and can afford the pricey ammo then knock yourself out. My home defense weapon of choice is a single shot 410 shotgun. I was even responsible enough to purchase " less lethal ammo" :D What is your plan to defend your home? It might take awhile for the fuzz to arrive. I suppose you could try talking to them. That should put the bad actors in a coma relatively quickly. :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: ... lot of assumptions you be makin there sparky!
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old salt
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

youthathletics wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:16 am Tell us why the border is a train wreck right now? https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/176295 ... 18198?s=20
https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/02/ ... he-border/

The Day Joe Biden Blew Up the Border

by RICH LOWRY, February 29, 2024

Joe Biden was inaugurated on January 20, 2021. Less than two weeks later, on February 2, he issued the executive order that began the unraveling at the border in earnest.

The border crisis isn’t something that happened to President Biden. It’s not a product of circumstances or understandable policy mistakes made under duress. No, he sought it and created it, on principle and as a matter of urgency.

It wasn’t a second-year priority or even a second-quarter-of-the-first-year priority. The new president set out in his initial days and weeks in office to destroy what Trump had built, most consequentially in the February 2 executive order.

By then, mind you, there had already been significant action to loosen up on the border, including on his first day in office.

The February 2 action was called, preposterously, the “Executive Order on Creating a Comprehensive Regional Framework to Address the Causes of Migration, to Manage Migration Throughout North and Central America, and to Provide Safe and Orderly Processing of Asylum Seekers at the United States Border.”

The order repeatedly used the words “root causes” and “comprehensive,” never a good sign in immigration policy. It emphasized an effort, as the document put it, to “enhance lawful pathways for migration to this country” and revoked a slew of Trump rules, executive orders, proclamations, and memoranda. The sense of it was that there is nothing that we could or should do on our own to control illegal immigration; rather, we had to fix Central America instead.

“We cannot solve the humanitarian crisis at our border without addressing the violence, instability, and lack of opportunity that compel so many people to flee their homes,” it intoned. “Nor is the United States safer when resources that should be invested in policies targeting actual threats, such as drug cartels and human traffickers, are squandered on efforts to stymie legitimate asylum seekers.”

The order called for better identifying of potential refugees into the United States, using parole to let more migrants join family members in the United States, enhancing access to visa programs, and reviewing whether the U.S. was doing enough for migrants fleeing domestic or gang violence, among other things.

And it put on the chopping block numerous Trump policies that had helped establish order at the border, from Trump’s expansion of expedited removal, to his termination of a parole program for Central American minors, to his memorandum urging the relevant departments to work toward ending “catch and release.”

Most importantly, it went after two of the pillars of Trump’s success at the border: the Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP), or so-called Remain in Mexico, and the safe-third-country agreements with the Northern Triangle countries that allowed us to divert asylum-seekers to Central American countries other than their own, where they could make asylum claims.

The order directed the secretary of homeland security to “promptly review and determine whether to terminate or modify the program known as the Migrant Protection Protocols” and the secretary of state to “promptly consider whether to notify the governments of the Northern Triangle” that the asylum agreements were being terminated.

After a few fits and starts thanks to legal challenges, Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas indeed ended Remain in Mexico. Although he now wants to present himself as an innocent bystander to Biden’s border policy, he killed the policy knowing exactly what he was doing.

“After carefully considering the arguments, evidence, and perspectives presented by those who support re-implementation of MPP, those who support terminating the program, and those who have argued for continuing MPP in a modified form, I have determined that MPP should be terminated,” he said in a memo.

He acknowledged, by the way, that the policy “likely contributed to reduced migratory flows.”

For his part, Antony Blinken indeed moved promptly. On February 6, he announced the end of the asylum agreements: “In line with the President’s vision, we have notified the Governments of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras that the United States is taking this action as efforts to establish a cooperative, mutually respectful approach to managing migration across the region begin.”

And just like that, the carefully crafted suite of Trump polices that had given us control of the border were demolished.

It didn’t require esoteric knowledge of border policy to realize how this would play out. During the transition, Trump officials warned of a catastrophe if Biden followed through on his promises, and in April 2021, the Washington Post ran a piece headlined, “At the border, a widely predicted crisis that caught Biden off guard.”

Now, the February 2 memo feels almost like an artifact from another era, as the open-borders orthodoxy begins to show cracks. The White House is considering measures to try to curtail illegal immigration and calling on sanctuary cities to cooperate with ICE, while New York City mayor Eric Adams criticizes aspects of his city’s sanctuary regime.

The executive order, though, is a stark reminder that — in terms of the harm to the country and political damage to President Biden — they did it to us and to themselves. It’s all there in black and white, a prelude to a disaster that has roiled the country and could well play an outsize role in Joe Biden’s losing the presidency.
a fan
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:12 pm
youthathletics wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:16 am Tell us why the border is a train wreck right now? https://x.com/RNCResearch/status/176295 ... 18198?s=20
https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/02/ ... he-border/

The Day Joe Biden Blew Up the Border

by RICH LOWRY, February 29, 2024

Joe Biden was inaugurated on January 20, 2021. Less than two weeks later, on February 2, he issued the executive order that began the unraveling at the border in earnest.

The border crisis isn’t something that happened to President Biden. It’s not a product of circumstances or understandable policy mistakes made under duress. No, he sought it and created it, on principle and as a matter of urgency.

It wasn’t a second-year priority or even a second-quarter-of-the-first-year priority. The new president set out in his initial days and weeks in office to destroy what Trump had built, most consequentially in the February 2 executive order.

By then, mind you, there had already been significant action to loosen up on the border, including on his first day in office.

The February 2 action was called, preposterously, the “Executive Order on Creating a Comprehensive Regional Framework to Address the Causes of Migration, to Manage Migration Throughout North and Central America, and to Provide Safe and Orderly Processing of Asylum Seekers at the United States Border.”

The order repeatedly used the words “root causes” and “comprehensive,” never a good sign in immigration policy. It emphasized an effort, as the document put it, to “enhance lawful pathways for migration to this country” and revoked a slew of Trump rules, executive orders, proclamations, and memoranda. The sense of it was that there is nothing that we could or should do on our own to control illegal immigration; rather, we had to fix Central America instead.

“We cannot solve the humanitarian crisis at our border without addressing the violence, instability, and lack of opportunity that compel so many people to flee their homes,” it intoned. “Nor is the United States safer when resources that should be invested in policies targeting actual threats, such as drug cartels and human traffickers, are squandered on efforts to stymie legitimate asylum seekers.”

The order called for better identifying of potential refugees into the United States, using parole to let more migrants join family members in the United States, enhancing access to visa programs, and reviewing whether the U.S. was doing enough for migrants fleeing domestic or gang violence, among other things.

And it put on the chopping block numerous Trump policies that had helped establish order at the border, from Trump’s expansion of expedited removal, to his termination of a parole program for Central American minors, to his memorandum urging the relevant departments to work toward ending “catch and release.”

Most importantly, it went after two of the pillars of Trump’s success at the border: the Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP), or so-called Remain in Mexico, and the safe-third-country agreements with the Northern Triangle countries that allowed us to divert asylum-seekers to Central American countries other than their own, where they could make asylum claims.

The order directed the secretary of homeland security to “promptly review and determine whether to terminate or modify the program known as the Migrant Protection Protocols” and the secretary of state to “promptly consider whether to notify the governments of the Northern Triangle” that the asylum agreements were being terminated.

After a few fits and starts thanks to legal challenges, Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas indeed ended Remain in Mexico. Although he now wants to present himself as an innocent bystander to Biden’s border policy, he killed the policy knowing exactly what he was doing.

“After carefully considering the arguments, evidence, and perspectives presented by those who support re-implementation of MPP, those who support terminating the program, and those who have argued for continuing MPP in a modified form, I have determined that MPP should be terminated,” he said in a memo.

He acknowledged, by the way, that the policy “likely contributed to reduced migratory flows.”

For his part, Antony Blinken indeed moved promptly. On February 6, he announced the end of the asylum agreements: “In line with the President’s vision, we have notified the Governments of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras that the United States is taking this action as efforts to establish a cooperative, mutually respectful approach to managing migration across the region begin.”

And just like that, the carefully crafted suite of Trump polices that had given us control of the border were demolished.

It didn’t require esoteric knowledge of border policy to realize how this would play out. During the transition, Trump officials warned of a catastrophe if Biden followed through on his promises, and in April 2021, the Washington Post ran a piece headlined, “At the border, a widely predicted crisis that caught Biden off guard.”

Now, the February 2 memo feels almost like an artifact from another era, as the open-borders orthodoxy begins to show cracks. The White House is considering measures to try to curtail illegal immigration and calling on sanctuary cities to cooperate with ICE, while New York City mayor Eric Adams criticizes aspects of his city’s sanctuary regime.

The executive order, though, is a stark reminder that — in terms of the harm to the country and political damage to President Biden — they did it to us and to themselves. It’s all there in black and white, a prelude to a disaster that has roiled the country and could well play an outsize role in Joe Biden’s losing the presidency.
Another "biden is bad" article. Immigration was flawless until three years ago.

When are you two going to stop doing Trump's bidding? It's been 12 years now, and you REFUSE to hold Trump or your party accountable for ANYTHING.

Trump just killed a bill that would send BILLIONS to various border and immigration issues. Trump killed it, and you and the rest of the R voters can't manage even ten seconds of anger or complain.

Nope. You guys totally ignore that, and go right back to "Biden is bad". Just like Trump wants. When are you gonna stop letting Trump play you like a fiddle?

Never, is the answer. So...enjoy the "crisis" fellas. You're why it's there, and will NEVER be fixed. They want you angry. They want you to hold the Dems accountable, and blame them for everything.

And here you are, doing what they tell you to do. And you've been doing is since Trump rode down that escalator. Keep it up. "Any day now" R's will fix everything.
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old salt
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:46 pm
Another "biden is bad" article. Immigration was flawless until three years ago.

When are you two going to stop doing Trump's bidding? It's been 12 years now, and you REFUSE to hold Trump or your party accountable for ANYTHING.

Trump just killed a bill that would send BILLIONS to various border and immigration issues. Trump killed it, and you and the rest of the R voters can't manage even ten seconds of anger or complain.

Nope. You guys totally ignore that, and go right back to "Biden is bad". Just like Trump wants. When are you gonna stop letting Trump play you like a fiddle?

Never, is the answer. So...enjoy the "crisis" fellas. You're why it's there, and will NEVER be fixed. They want you angry. They want you to hold the Dems accountable, and blame them for everything.

And here you are, doing what they tell you to do. And you've been doing is since Trump rode down that escalator. Keep it up. "Any day now" R's will fix everything.
Biden's record is what it is. You can't deny it forever. The differences from Trump policies are irrefutable.

The compromise bill did not close the asylum loophole & end catch & release.
It would just provide more DHS enablers & $$$ to better exploit it.
More $$$ for open border NGO's to help economic migrants game the asylum process.
Hire DHS (vice DoJ) immigration "Judges" to enforce open border DHS policies vice US law.
It would create a new normal that is "good enough" to forestall future efforts to secure the border & rationalize our immigration policies.

It would not be necessary to build large detention camps. Just the threat of detention until adjudication, combined with outlawing sanctuary jurisdictions, reinstating MPP (remain in Mexico & safe 3rd country asylum application requirements) would greatly reduce the pull factors.
There are enough migrants here already (legal & illegal) to meet our labor needs.

There is finally sufficient public support to secure the border & rationalize our immigration process in a way that does nor reward & incentivize unlawful entry. The political tide is changing. It doesn't have to be Trump. Any President could do it.
jhu72
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

A federal judge granted a preliminary injunction Thursday to temporarily prevent one of the strictest immigration bills in the country from going into effect in Texas on March 5. Think the judges last name is something like Biden. :lol: :lol:
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jhu72
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:55 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:46 pm
Another "biden is bad" article. Immigration was flawless until three years ago.

When are you two going to stop doing Trump's bidding? It's been 12 years now, and you REFUSE to hold Trump or your party accountable for ANYTHING.

Trump just killed a bill that would send BILLIONS to various border and immigration issues. Trump killed it, and you and the rest of the R voters can't manage even ten seconds of anger or complain.

Nope. You guys totally ignore that, and go right back to "Biden is bad". Just like Trump wants. When are you gonna stop letting Trump play you like a fiddle?

Never, is the answer. So...enjoy the "crisis" fellas. You're why it's there, and will NEVER be fixed. They want you angry. They want you to hold the Dems accountable, and blame them for everything.

And here you are, doing what they tell you to do. And you've been doing is since Trump rode down that escalator. Keep it up. "Any day now" R's will fix everything.
Biden's record is what it is. You can't deny it forever. The differences from Trump policies are irrefutable.

The compromise bill did not close the asylum loophole & end catch & release.
It would just provide more DHS enablers & $$$ to better exploit it.
More $$$ for open border NGO's to help economic migrants game the asylum process.
Hire DHS (vice DoJ) immigration "Judges" to enforce open border DHS policies vice US law.
It would create a new normal that is "good enough" to forestall future efforts to secure the border & rationalize our immigration policies.

It would not be necessary to build large detention camps. Just the threat of detention until adjudication, combined with outlawing sanctuary jurisdictions, reinstating MPP (remain in Mexico & safe 3rd country asylum application requirements) would greatly reduce the pull factors.
There are enough migrants here already (legal & illegal) to meet our labor needs.

There is finally sufficient public support to secure the border & rationalize our immigration process in a way that does nor reward & incentivize unlawful entry. The political tide is changing. It doesn't have to be Trump. Any President could do it.
... 10 republican boarder hawk Senators would disagree with your read. Just sayin.
Last edited by jhu72 on Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PizzaSnake
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by PizzaSnake »

old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:55 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 2:46 pm
Another "biden is bad" article. Immigration was flawless until three years ago.

When are you two going to stop doing Trump's bidding? It's been 12 years now, and you REFUSE to hold Trump or your party accountable for ANYTHING.

Trump just killed a bill that would send BILLIONS to various border and immigration issues. Trump killed it, and you and the rest of the R voters can't manage even ten seconds of anger or complain.

Nope. You guys totally ignore that, and go right back to "Biden is bad". Just like Trump wants. When are you gonna stop letting Trump play you like a fiddle?

Never, is the answer. So...enjoy the "crisis" fellas. You're why it's there, and will NEVER be fixed. They want you angry. They want you to hold the Dems accountable, and blame them for everything.

And here you are, doing what they tell you to do. And you've been doing is since Trump rode down that escalator. Keep it up. "Any day now" R's will fix everything.
Biden's record is what it is. You can't deny it forever. The differences from Trump policies are irrefutable.

The compromise bill did not close the asylum loophole & end catch & release.
It would just provide more DHS enablers & $$$ to better exploit it.
More $$$ for open border NGO's to help economic migrants game the asylum process.
Hire DHS (vice DoJ) immigration "Judges" to enforce open border DHS policies vice US law.
It would create a new normal that is "good enough" to forestall future efforts to secure the border & rationalize our immigration policies.

It would not be necessary to build large detention camps. Just the threat of detention until adjudication, combined with outlawing sanctuary jurisdictions, reinstating MPP (remain in Mexico & safe 3rd country asylum application requirements) would greatly reduce the pull factors.
There are enough migrants here already (legal & illegal) to meet our labor needs.

There is finally sufficient public support to secure the border & rationalize our immigration process in a way that does nor reward & incentivize unlawful entry. The political tide is changing. It doesn't have to be Trump. Any President could do it.
Just zealously enforce the I-9. What, you don't want to pay more for the food (y)our "labor" makes available at low rates?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:55 pm Biden's record is what it is. You can't deny it forever. The differences from Trump policies are irrefutable.
I'm not denying doodly. As usual, you don't read anything your fellow posters write. You're here to lecture us, tell us what you think, and never change your mind. Happy to tell you that more illegals are coming in under Biden than Trump. So what? I don't care about the number 1,000,000 more than I care about the estimatd 10,000,000 that have been here for DECADES, and aren't being accounted for, fully taxed, or fully a part of our country.

Immigrants have been coming in illegally for decades. You don't care. All you want to focus on is what's pressed in front of your face, because you'd rather come on here and tell us "the Dems are bad" then actually fix the problem. Naturally, Trump and the R's are THRILLED that you think like this....so please, keep it up.
old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:55 pm The compromise bill did not close the asylum loophole & end catch & release.
And NOT passing the bill did not close the asylum loophole & end catch & release.

Are you trying to tell me that you're so stupid you don't understand that? You're gaslighting. It doesn't matter that the bill left that out. 100% immaterial. And you know it. Why do you waste your and my time pretending you don't get that?

And shocker, zBiden doesn't share your view (or mine for that matter). Yet you think that holding your breath and stomping your feet will get a Dem to do what you want. Heck, over the years we've seen you whine and complain when a Dem does EXACTLY what you want, because you think you'll turn into dust if you ever say a Dem did something right.
old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:55 pm It would just provide more DHS enablers & $$$ to better exploit it.
More $$$ for open border NGO's to help economic migrants game the asylum process.
Tell me you didn't bother reading the bill without telling me you didn't bother reading the bill. :roll:

You want the status quo. We get it. You're happy to keep complaining and don't want ANYTHING that helps the mess. You win.

old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:55 pm Hire DHS (vice DoJ) immigration "Judges" to enforce open border DHS policies vice US law.
It would create a new normal that is "good enough" to forestall future efforts to secure the border & rationalize our immigration policies.

It would not be necessary to build large detention camps. Just the threat of detention until adjudication, combined with outlawing sanctuary jurisdictions, reinstating MPP (remain in Mexico & safe 3rd country asylum application requirements) would greatly reduce the pull factors.
There are enough migrants here already (legal & illegal) to meet our labor needs.
None of this is going to happen. I told you this 12 years ago now. You didn't want to hear it then, and you don't want to hear it now. America will move on, as they have with both Israel and Ukraine. And again, you're telling me you don't get this? :roll: Sure you don't.
old salt wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:55 pm There is finally sufficient public support to secure the border & rationalize our immigration process in a way that does nor reward & incentivize unlawful entry. The political tide is changing.
No. It isn't. R's want to keep you mad. And you oblige them. They don't want to give up their ability to make Old Salt made....so they won't do doodly. You've already moved on from your complaint of the month Bud Light spokesperson, in case you haven't noticed. They need something to keep you mad at the Dems, and to blame them for everything. So....Trump and your buddy R's killed the bill.

And you are happy to do their bidding. No amount of discussion will get you to hold your party accountable, or to complain when they are playing you.

I'll be here to take your immigration wager just as I did before Trump took office, hilariously 12 years ago now. You declined, of course, because you are gaslighting here....you know doggone well you're being played the fool by your Party. You just want to ignore that, gaslight us here, and whine about the Dems.

So....please. Keep giving me paragraph after paragraph about how Biden is bad, and that you're shocked he isn't doing exactly what you want. This tactic that you and your fellow R voters are using is the ENTIRE reason this will never get fixed.

Dems are bad.
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

The Economist

It is over 50 years since Richard Nixon initiated America’s war on drugs, yet victory seems further away than ever. In the 12 months to September 2023 more than 105,000 Americans died from overdoses—almost double the number killed in combat in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. No matter how zealously the government patrols the border and how ferociously it pursues traffickers, the problem only seems to get worse.

The deterioration in the past decade is largely owing to fentanyl, a synthetic opioid that is 50 times more potent than heroin and is involved in about 70% of drug-related deaths in America. It started as a substitute for opioids supplied under prescription, but its continuing spread is the logical outcome of the war on drugs. Peddling narcotics is so lucrative that traffickers have an incentive to innovate, the better to evade controls. Fentanyl and its analogues are a near-perfect product: so cheap to make that even sold for 50 cents a pill, it is still hugely profitable; so powerful and addictive that a captive market is almost guaranteed; so easy to make, with such a variety of common chemicals, that it can be produced more or less anywhere; so concentrated that it is easy to hide and smuggle.

No wonder America is struggling to control fentanyl. A crackdown on the Sinaloa gang in Mexico, said by American authorities to be the biggest source of it, has simply caused production to atomise. Attempts to stop Chinese exports of ingredients are hampered by ever-evolving recipes for the drug and ever-adapting supply chains, with India, for instance, becoming the latest source of chemical precursors. A focus by America’s border patrol on crossings near San Diego, which was once the main conduit into America, has caused smuggling to shift eastwards, into Arizona.

Predictably, many politicians think the best response is extreme tactics that are themselves also the logical culmination of the war on drugs. Senior Republicans have called for an invasion of Mexico, to eradicate the gangs (although Republicans in Congress have turned down Joe Biden’s request for more funds to patrol the border). Donald Trump is said to have contemplated missile strikes on traffickers’ hideouts when he was president.

To its credit, Mr Biden’s administration is already taking a broader approach. For the first time, the federal government is spending more to deter use and treat addicts than it is on trying to disrupt the flow of drugs. It has patched up relations with China well enough to resume efforts to curb the trade in precursors across the Pacific. Mindful of how mutable supply chains are, it is trying to build a global coalition to keep better track of chemicals.

These are welcome steps, but they should go further. If it is impossible to stop fentanyl getting to consumers, more must be done to help them cope with it. American authorities should distribute simple tests to let users check whether their drugs have, as is often the case, been mixed with cheap, addictive fentanyl; they should increase access to treatment schemes involving substitutes such as methadone; they should ensure that the antidote for overdoses is widely available; they should revamp drug education, which is woeful. And they should decriminalise less lethal drugs, such as cocaine, so as to free time and scarce funds to focus on the one that is killing Americans in droves.


Politicians of all stripes dislike such ideas, since they appear to condone taking drugs. America’s are unlikely to try anything so radical. But fentanyl is already a problem in Canada and is spreading in Mexico, too. Even more potent synthetic opioids called nitazenes have arrived in Britain. If the world is to cope it will, like the traffickers, have to innovate.
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Biden is trying to fix Trump’s broken immigration system

New Data Show Migrants Were More Likely to Be Released by Trump Than Biden

According to new data published last month, the Biden Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has removed a higher percentage of arrested border crossers in its first two years than the Trump DHS did over its last two years. Moreover, migrants were more likely to be released after a border arrest under President Trump than under President Biden.

Funny, when you actually dig deeper into the issue and what's driving things? It's not so black and white as OS and Fox and others try to make it. BDS.
PizzaSnake
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by PizzaSnake »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:14 pm The Economist

It is over 50 years since Richard Nixon initiated America’s war on drugs, yet victory seems further away than ever. In the 12 months to September 2023 more than 105,000 Americans died from overdoses—almost double the number killed in combat in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. No matter how zealously the government patrols the border and how ferociously it pursues traffickers, the problem only seems to get worse.

The deterioration in the past decade is largely owing to fentanyl, a synthetic opioid that is 50 times more potent than heroin and is involved in about 70% of drug-related deaths in America. It started as a substitute for opioids supplied under prescription, but its continuing spread is the logical outcome of the war on drugs. Peddling narcotics is so lucrative that traffickers have an incentive to innovate, the better to evade controls. Fentanyl and its analogues are a near-perfect product: so cheap to make that even sold for 50 cents a pill, it is still hugely profitable; so powerful and addictive that a captive market is almost guaranteed; so easy to make, with such a variety of common chemicals, that it can be produced more or less anywhere; so concentrated that it is easy to hide and smuggle.

No wonder America is struggling to control fentanyl. A crackdown on the Sinaloa gang in Mexico, said by American authorities to be the biggest source of it, has simply caused production to atomise. Attempts to stop Chinese exports of ingredients are hampered by ever-evolving recipes for the drug and ever-adapting supply chains, with India, for instance, becoming the latest source of chemical precursors. A focus by America’s border patrol on crossings near San Diego, which was once the main conduit into America, has caused smuggling to shift eastwards, into Arizona.

Predictably, many politicians think the best response is extreme tactics that are themselves also the logical culmination of the war on drugs. Senior Republicans have called for an invasion of Mexico, to eradicate the gangs (although Republicans in Congress have turned down Joe Biden’s request for more funds to patrol the border). Donald Trump is said to have contemplated missile strikes on traffickers’ hideouts when he was president.

To its credit, Mr Biden’s administration is already taking a broader approach. For the first time, the federal government is spending more to deter use and treat addicts than it is on trying to disrupt the flow of drugs. It has patched up relations with China well enough to resume efforts to curb the trade in precursors across the Pacific. Mindful of how mutable supply chains are, it is trying to build a global coalition to keep better track of chemicals.

These are welcome steps, but they should go further. If it is impossible to stop fentanyl getting to consumers, more must be done to help them cope with it. American authorities should distribute simple tests to let users check whether their drugs have, as is often the case, been mixed with cheap, addictive fentanyl; they should increase access to treatment schemes involving substitutes such as methadone; they should ensure that the antidote for overdoses is widely available; they should revamp drug education, which is woeful. And they should decriminalise less lethal drugs, such as cocaine, so as to free time and scarce funds to focus on the one that is killing Americans in droves.


Politicians of all stripes dislike such ideas, since they appear to condone taking drugs. America’s are unlikely to try anything so radical. But fentanyl is already a problem in Canada and is spreading in Mexico, too. Even more potent synthetic opioids called nitazenes have arrived in Britain. If the world is to cope it will, like the traffickers, have to innovate.
Too bad OS wasn’t heading up that war.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Why don't Republicans simply send thoughts and prayers to the border? Works for them in other cases.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:08 pm Why don't Republicans simply send thoughts and prayers to the border? Works for them in other cases.
Nothing wrong with the amount of drugs on the streets. Drugs can’t take themselves! The people are the problem. Drugs don’t kill, the people taking the drugs do!
“I wish you would!”
PizzaSnake
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by PizzaSnake »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:22 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:08 pm Why don't Republicans simply send thoughts and prayers to the border? Works for them in other cases.
Nothing wrong with the amount of drugs on the streets. Drugs can’t take themselves! The people are the problem. Drugs don’t kill, the people taking the drugs do!
Think tRump cuts his Adderall with chloroquine?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
jhu72
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:44 pm Biden is trying to fix Trump’s broken immigration system

New Data Show Migrants Were More Likely to Be Released by Trump Than Biden

According to new data published last month, the Biden Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has removed a higher percentage of arrested border crossers in its first two years than the Trump DHS did over its last two years. Moreover, migrants were more likely to be released after a border arrest under President Trump than under President Biden.

Funny, when you actually dig deeper into the issue and what's driving things? It's not so black and white as OS and Fox and others try to make it. BDS.
... the right wing liars (kind of redundant, I admit) also have a problem making their lies line up with crime statistics under Biden.
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jhu72
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by jhu72 »

Biden was very cleaver today. While on the border he sold the Senate bill story and Trump's willingly taking responsibility (in Trump's own words) for killing the Bill in the house -- "blame me". :lol: :lol: Biden then out stretched his hand to Trump and said lets both talk to our people, go over to the hill together and instruct them to pass the bill.

Biden is the stupid one. :lol:
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old salt
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:29 pm You've already moved on from your complaint of the month Bud Light spokesperson, in case you haven't noticed.
:lol: ...talk about a non sequiter. I didn't move on, A-B did. They went mui macho with their Bud Light commercials (w/Dana White & Peyton Manning), then hitched the Clydesdales to the beer wagon & had the grownup puppy lead them home for their Super Bowl commercial.
a fan
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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Post by a fan »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:44 pm Biden is trying to fix Trump’s broken immigration system

New Data Show Migrants Were More Likely to Be Released by Trump Than Biden

According to new data published last month, the Biden Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has removed a higher percentage of arrested border crossers in its first two years than the Trump DHS did over its last two years. Moreover, migrants were more likely to be released after a border arrest under President Trump than under President Biden.

Funny, when you actually dig deeper into the issue and what's driving things? It's not so black and white as OS and Fox and others try to make it. BDS.
Not possible. Old Salt tells us that the Dems are bad. Case closed.
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