Coaching Carousel Pre-2020 Season

[notentitled]

Why is GW being disparaged? My daughter is one of those International Affairs majors. Leave them alone.

[jhu72]

There has to be some pressure at Homewood for a change

I don't see any evidence that anyone in charge cares about change. A year left on contract, I doubt that Daniel's would like to buy that out (hurts his endowment )

I have said it before, but it bears repeating, if all you change is the coach and staff, you will be back where you are in relatively short order. Bring back Bill Brody! What is going on with this program is not happening in a vacuum.

I don’t understand this at all. It’s not as if Daniel’s administration hasn’t shown great support for the program. That endowment fundraising program had to have his sign off, and he has only helped to make Johns Hopkins a more attractive place to go to college. Plus the Lacrosse Center was built on his watch.

No one has ever been specific about what precisely Daniels is alleged to be doing wrong.

DocBarrister

The problem is bigger than Daniels. The problem is Hopkins has never really considered all the ramifications of being successful at the D1 level. It has always taken the easy decision. It has always been made easy for the institution, because of the program alumni support. There is no real commitment, because what has been asked has always been easy! That has changed! Daniels and the board does not give a rats ass about the program. Daniels and the board did not build the Cordish center. They approved it, when approval was easy to give! The campus was not made beautiful because of the lacrosse program, it was made beautiful by a gift of a donor who specifically does not support the athletic department.

Daniels and the board need to decide if they want to be a non-ivy, ivy, or they want to be a unique institution.

That’s all very vague and non-specific.

What is it that you want Daniels and the board to do? GIVE A RAT'S ASS! He considers the program a weed in his garden. Ok as long as it is a good looking weed.

Build a better stadium? Homewood is already better than most lacrosse venues.

Program is fully funded with athletic scholarships.

No one attending Hopkins has to take out loans anymore.

Cordish is as good a lacrosse facility as any.

Petro, despite the criticism, is still a legendary coach and former player.

Campus is beautiful. Student population is diverse with more female students than ever. Undergraduate lifestyle and school amenities have never been better.

And few if any lacrosse programs will have more endowment funding once the current campaign is done.

What more can you ask for? It’s not as if Daniels can suit up and play. Plus, the President of The Johns Hopkins University has more important things to do than micromanage the lacrosse program.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

the desire to be a "non-Ivy Ivy" is a fools game. I think that instinct has and does threaten a lot of very good colleges.

What exactly does this mean? Hopkins is already ranked higher than several Ivies. Hopkins has academic programs ranked with Harvard.

In reality, Hopkins' biggest problem for is it location: it's the least attractive urban city of all the top 20 Unis. Least attractive to students and to trailing spouses (for faculty recruitment). For example, Columbia and NYU gets thousands of apps just bcos of the bright lights of Manhattan. Even GW, with a large contingent of PT/adjunct faculty, gets mega apps from the Poli Sci wannabes bcos of its connection to DC. Boston, Philly, Chicago, LA, & SF are all much more attractive as placse to live. From a social standpoint, you have to want to be in Bawlamer, or at least put up with it for period of time.

(Sure, New Haven is not an exactly an oasis, but its tiny so much easier for Y to get changes thru the City.)

Boy, you sure must be a Baltimore hater Big Dog.
Have you actually visited Hopkins and its environs in the spring, Roland Park, Guilford, Charles Village, Hamden?

I quite agree that, for city schools, Cambridge is a great environment, so is Stanford's campus (though not actually SF), Georgetown's, etc. But Penn's? Yale's? Brown's? For my $, I sure wouldn't prefer Columbia's.

But then I like Dartmouth's and Princeton's and UVA's smaller town feels. Each to his own.

Of course, we need to focus on men's lacrosse...

BTW, is Loyola challenged by its location in Baltimore?

[DocBarrister]

the desire to be a "non-Ivy Ivy" is a fools game. I think that instinct has and does threaten a lot of very good colleges.

What exactly does this mean? Hopkins is already ranked higher than several Ivies. Hopkins has academic programs ranked with Harvard.

In reality, Hopkins' biggest problem for is it location: it's the least attractive urban city of all the top 20 Unis. Least attractive to students and to trailing spouses (for faculty recruitment). For example, Columbia and NYU gets thousands of apps just bcos of the bright lights of Manhattan. Even GW, with a large contingent of PT/adjunct faculty, gets mega apps from the Poli Sci wannabes bcos of its connection to DC. Boston, Philly, Chicago, LA, & SF are all much more attractive as placse to live. From a social standpoint, you have to want to be in Bawlamer, or at least put up with it for period of time.

(Sure, New Haven is not an exactly an oasis, but its tiny so much easier for Y to get changes thru the City.)

Heck, even Paul Rabil moved to L.A.

DocBarrister (California Dreamin’)

[HooDat]

the desire to be a "non-Ivy Ivy" is a fools game. I think that instinct has and does threaten a lot of very good colleges.

What exactly does this mean? Hopkins is already ranked higher than several Ivies. Hopkins has academic programs ranked with Harvard.

In reality, Hopkins' biggest problem for is it location: it's the least attractive urban city of all the top 20 Unis. Least attractive to students and to trailing spouses (for faculty recruitment). For example, Columbia and NYU gets thousands of apps just bcos of the bright lights of Manhattan. Even GW, with a large contingent of PT/adjunct faculty, gets mega apps from the Poli Sci wannabes bcos of its connection to DC. Boston, Philly, Chicago, LA, & SF are all much more attractive as placse to live. From a social standpoint, you have to want to be in Bawlamer, or at least put up with it for period of time.

(Sure, New Haven is not an exactly an oasis, but its tiny so much easier for Y to get changes thru the City.)

Man - you JHU folks sure are thin skinned!

I make a statement in response to someone ELSE saying that JHU might be trying to be a non-Ivy Ivy - and my response was that there is no reason to do that. My pint being there are plenty of Ivy League schools and colleges can drift away from their true strengths if they decide to try to be an Ivy. There is only one Hopkins, be Hopkins. Geesh....

[jhu72]

the desire to be a "non-Ivy Ivy" is a fools game. I think that instinct has and does threaten a lot of very good colleges.

What exactly does this mean? Hopkins is already ranked higher than several Ivies. Hopkins has academic programs ranked with Harvard.

In reality, Hopkins' biggest problem for is it location: it's the least attractive urban city of all the top 20 Unis. Least attractive to students and to trailing spouses (for faculty recruitment). For example, Columbia and NYU gets thousands of apps just bcos of the bright lights of Manhattan. Even GW, with a large contingent of PT/adjunct faculty, gets mega apps from the Poli Sci wannabes bcos of its connection to DC. Boston, Philly, Chicago, LA, & SF are all much more attractive as placse to live. From a social standpoint, you have to want to be in Bawlamer, or at least put up with it for period of time.

(Sure, New Haven is not an exactly an oasis, but its tiny so much easier for Y to get changes thru the City.)

Man - you JHU folks sure are thin skinned!

I make a statement in response to someone ELSE saying that JHU might be trying to be a non-Ivy Ivy - and my response was that there is no reason to do that. My pint being there are plenty of Ivy League schools and colleges can drift away from their true strengths if they decide to try to be an Ivy. There is only one Hopkins, be Hopkins. Geesh....

Exactly! To continue being Hopkins in this day and age will require Hopkins to change in some ways, but not in the ways I see the president and board wanting to change the institution. The maintenance of Hopkins as a D1 lax power will require more than benign neglect on the part of the administration.

[HopFan16]

Exactly! To continue being Hopkins in this day and age will require Hopkins to change in some ways, but not in the ways I see the president and board wanting to change the institution. The maintenance of Hopkins as a D1 lax power will require more than benign neglect on the part of the administration.

It's been like 5 years of people making this argument and I still haven't heard of any specifics/concrete steps the administration should be taking that it's not already doing that will help Hopkins win more lacrosse games. Just keep hearing this same platitude over and over and nobody wants to explain what it actually entails.

Back to the topic at hand: IF Petro is a goner, which I think is unlikely but still a nonzero chance of happening, then I think Hop's targets will be:

1. Nadelen
2. Marr
3. A rising coach outside the program like Torpey
4. One of the other alums like Raymond, Voelker
5. Take a wild shot on a young guy like Steele Stanwick, Ryan Brown, John Crawley (doubtful but someone with a marsupial-based username has floated the idea of an All-Stanwick coaching staff)
6. Give Bill Tierney a call and see if he wants to end his career back at Homewood after proving what he wanted to out west

[jhu72]

It's really easy and not really deep. Just basic organizational dynamics. There is no priority given at the board level, hence the president gives it no priority, hence the people who work for the president give it no priority. When D1 was less competitive, it was not hard for a motivated group of individuals to succeed based on benign neglect of the administration - in fact benign neglect was an advantage. They accomplished much and it was appreciated by the administration. Just one more of the quirky things that used to happen at Hopkins. Hopkins is becoming less quirky as is the world. We have to plan for quirkiness! There is no model for Hopkins in the modern world. We have to invent one or see it disappear. It will not continue to exist by accident. This has nothing to do with X's and O's and coaches. We are basically a D3 place, with a D3 athletic department organizational structure and most importantly ATTITUDES. I should not have to explain the difference between a D1 and D3 organizational structure.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's really easy and not really deep. Just basic organizational dynamics. There is no priority given at the board level, hence the president gives it no priority, hence the people who work for the president give it no priority. When D1 was less competitive, it was not hard for a motivated group of individuals to succeed based on benign neglect of the administration - in fact benign neglect was an advantage. They accomplished much and it was appreciated by the administration. Just one more of the quirky things that used to happen at Hopkins. Hopkins is becoming less quirky as is the world. We have to plan for quirkiness! There is no model for Hopkins in the modern world. We have to invent one or see it disappear. It will not continue to exist by accident. This has nothing to do with X's and O's and coaches. We are basically a D3 place, with a D3 athletic department organizational structure and most importantly ATTITUDES. I should not have to explain the difference between a D1 and D3 organizational structure.

The competition



More Competition

[foreverlax]

Exactly! To continue being Hopkins in this day and age will require Hopkins to change in some ways, but not in the ways I see the president and board wanting to change the institution. The maintenance of Hopkins as a D1 lax power will require more than benign neglect on the part of the administration.

It's been like 5 years of people making this argument and I still haven't heard of any specifics/concrete steps the administration should be taking that it's not already doing that will help Hopkins win more lacrosse games. Just keep hearing this same platitude over and over and nobody wants to explain what it actually entails.

Back to the topic at hand: IF Petro is a goner, which I think is unlikely but still a nonzero chance of happening, then I think Hop's targets will be:

1. Nadelen - why would he leave TU? Money?
2. Marr
3. A rising coach outside the program like Torpey
4. One of the other alums like Raymond, Voelker
5. Take a wild shot on a young guy like Steele Stanwick, Ryan Brown, John Crawley (doubtful but someone with a marsupial-based username has floated the idea of an All-Stanwick coaching staff)
6. Give Bill Tierney a call and see if he wants to end his career back at Homewood after proving what he wanted to out west

[jhu72]

It's really easy and not really deep. Just basic organizational dynamics. There is no priority given at the board level, hence the president gives it no priority, hence the people who work for the president give it no priority. When D1 was less competitive, it was not hard for a motivated group of individuals to succeed based on benign neglect of the administration - in fact benign neglect was an advantage. They accomplished much and it was appreciated by the administration. Just one more of the quirky things that used to happen at Hopkins. Hopkins is becoming less quirky as is the world. We have to plan for quirkiness! There is no model for Hopkins in the modern world. We have to invent one or see it disappear. It will not continue to exist by accident. This has nothing to do with X's and O's and coaches. We are basically a D3 place, with a D3 athletic department organizational structure and most importantly ATTITUDES. I should not have to explain the difference between a D1 and D3 organizational structure.

The competition



More Competition

I don't think Hopkins has to go full D1. I don't think physical infrastructure is a big hurdle, the biggest hurdle at the moment is administration perspective about being different and having to treat the lacrosse program differently from the others and treating it as a corporate asset. I see no evidence the current administration sees it as anything other than another round peg to be fit into one of the athletic department's round holes. There are a lot of internal university forces that want to see it treated as a round peg. We either have to see it as the square peg and be ok at the institutional level with treating it as such, or see the program diminish. I don't think the administration has ever made such a commitment. In fact I think prima facia evidence of that is how long they have allowed the current situation to continue.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It's really easy and not really deep. Just basic organizational dynamics. There is no priority given at the board level, hence the president gives it no priority, hence the people who work for the president give it no priority. When D1 was less competitive, it was not hard for a motivated group of individuals to succeed based on benign neglect of the administration - in fact benign neglect was an advantage. They accomplished much and it was appreciated by the administration. Just one more of the quirky things that used to happen at Hopkins. Hopkins is becoming less quirky as is the world. We have to plan for quirkiness! There is no model for Hopkins in the modern world. We have to invent one or see it disappear. It will not continue to exist by accident. This has nothing to do with X's and O's and coaches. We are basically a D3 place, with a D3 athletic department organizational structure and most importantly ATTITUDES. I should not have to explain the difference between a D1 and D3 organizational structure.

The competition



More Competition

I don't think Hopkins has to go full D1. I don't think physical infrastructure is a big hurdle, the biggest hurdle at the moment is administration perspective about being different and having to treat the lacrosse program differently from the others and treating it as a corporate asset. I see no evidence the current administration sees it as anything other than another round peg to be fit into one of the athletic department's round holes. There are a lot of internal university forces that want to see it treated as a round peg. We either have to see it as the square peg and be ok at the institutional level with treating it as such, or see the program diminish. I don't think the administration has ever made such a commitment. In fact I think prima facia evidence of that is how long they have allowed the current situation to continue.

I don't think Hopkins has to have those kinds of facilities to compete..... Yale won a title last year and the facilities are not at all what you get in Big Ten....

[HopFan16]

It's really easy and not really deep. Just basic organizational dynamics. There is no priority given at the board level, hence the president gives it no priority, hence the people who work for the president give it no priority. When D1 was less competitive, it was not hard for a motivated group of individuals to succeed based on benign neglect of the administration - in fact benign neglect was an advantage. They accomplished much and it was appreciated by the administration. Just one more of the quirky things that used to happen at Hopkins. Hopkins is becoming less quirky as is the world. We have to plan for quirkiness! There is no model for Hopkins in the modern world. We have to invent one or see it disappear. It will not continue to exist by accident. This has nothing to do with X's and O's and coaches. We are basically a D3 place, with a D3 athletic department organizational structure and most importantly ATTITUDES. I should not have to explain the difference between a D1 and D3 organizational structure.

I understand your point, and I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm still not seeing any specifics here? What is one concrete action the administration can take to help the lacrosse team? What is an actual way that they can treat the lacrosse program "differently?"

Re: Nadelen. We don't know that he'd leave Towson. He very well may not. All reports are that he's happy there, and his wife also has a great job there. But if your alma mater calls—and when your alma mater happens to be the most storied program in the country just a few miles down the street—you at least pick up the phone and have a discussion. As far as money goes, that doesn't seem like it would be the most important factor for a guy like Nadelen but I'm pretty confident Hopkins would be able to match or exceed what he makes at Towson.

[sguy9]

Hopkins is not currently looking for a coach. Their current assistants may or may not be looking at one of the open jobs. Can we please stop talking about Hopkins on this thread?

[DocBarrister]

Hopkins is not currently looking for a coach. Their current assistants may or may not be looking at one of the open jobs. Can we please stop talking about Hopkins on this thread?

I keep telling them to move the discussion elsewhere, but they just won’t listen. Very frustrating ....

DocBarrister

[kramerica.inc]

Why would any team that's looking to upgrade their program want to hire a Hopkins coach?

[Peter Brown]

Why would any team that's looking to upgrade their program want to hire a Hopkins coach?

[HooDat]

It's been like 5 years of people making this argument and I still haven't heard of any specifics/concrete steps the administration should be taking that it's not already doing that will help Hopkins win more lacrosse games. Just keep hearing this same platitude over and over and nobody wants to explain what it actually entails.

UNC caliber co-eds....?

[steel_hop]

and his wife also has a great job there. But if your alma mater calls—and when your alma mater happens to be the most storied program in the country

If any change is made and Nads moves to Hopkins, I'm pretty sure, she can still work at her job at Towson.

Note: I think he should be canned but I doubt the administration makes the decision. Much easier to let the program wither on the vine than actually take any decisive action. There actions for the kids occupying Garland demonstrate the entire university is feckless at its core under Daniels.

[The Orfling]

It's been like 5 years of people making this argument and I still haven't heard of any specifics/concrete steps the administration should be taking that it's not already doing that will help Hopkins win more lacrosse games. Just keep hearing this same platitude over and over and nobody wants to explain what it actually entails.

UNC caliber co-eds....?

I get that this is a lax forum but JHU is ranked top 10 in US News — I believe that is a big leap since my own college days? Seems like a lot of good things are happening. And talking about the worth of a college based on the supposed pulchritude of the student body, joking or no, is kind of a dated approach, imho.