Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[Farfromgeneva]

[youtube][/youtube]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Kram, yes, there are only a few people on here who would claim to be MAGA, more that are but don't want to admit it publicly (IMO). You're right that using that term may be off putting to those who wish to not publicly identify as such.

Perhaps I should have said, 'those who agree with Trump and Johnson, having not read the bill, that Congress should not pass it.'...I call that a MAGA position, but if someone does agree with that view, then please do share why they think the bill will not address the "underlying causes".

But more specifically, Salty specifically claimed "underlying cause" was not going to be addressed by the bill...that may well be true, but I want to understand what Salty and those who agree with him think the underlying cause or causes of the issue or issues are. I disaggregated two border matters, mass migration and fentanyl, in case one thinks the "underlying causes" are different...they needn't be in someone's mind, but I wanted to give them a chance to tell us what they're thinking.

If someone wants to say "I'm not MAGA but I think the border bill should be rejected" and say what they think the "underlying causes" are, go for it.

I think there's probably an interesting discussion to be had, but I didn't want to put words in other's mouths. I sincerely want to know what they think.

I would like to believe that all Americans believe in the concept of Making America Great. The other option doesn't make much sense. Does anyone want to Make America Suck?? Maybe MAGA is the wrong moniker to be using for the trumpnistas. Just call em MAS.

It's the "Again" that transfers the message from positive to negative, cradle, as I'm sure you understand. It's what most Trump voters proudly call themselves, led by Trump, so I'm simply using the term they chose.

I've multiple times described the different elements and themes within that moniker, which may be overlapping in any given individual, but not necessarily. Nearly all believe and say either that Trump actually won and was cheated out of remaining in office, or that Dems unfairly rigged the system so that they would win. They nearly all think that mass election fraud actually happened and was either orchestrated or welcomed by Dems. They nearly all think there's a leftist "Deep State" arrayed or organized against their interests, and they nearly all believe that Dems are 'weaponizing government' against their Leader and against any 'conservative' like them. And nearly all believe that whatever the Leader says or does, the most important quality of being a supporter of MAGA is loyalty to the Leader. The last may be denied by some, but in practice they never waver and those who do are swiftly labelled RINOs and in effect excommunicated from the group and its support.

That group of voters now dominates the GOP but not entirely. Same for right wing media, which is now almost, but not entirely, dominated by MAGA promoters or apologists, most everyone else is at least afraid to confront it head on.

Sadly, as you well know there are many Americans that question the greatness of this country today for a wide varieties of reasons. They include Democrats, Republicans, Liberals and Conservatives. It is similar to beauty in that the greatness of this country is measured in the eye of the beholder.

The rest of the world holds dollars as a reserve for rainy days. That makes it relatively great.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

[a fan]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

[a fan]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

Same with farmers out my way...peaches in particular.

Plenty of Dem 1%ers benefitting from immigration status quo, just like Trumpy.

[Farfromgeneva]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

The answer is what do you and the basic average citizen want to pay for their produce. Want strwbwrries at 3.99/4.99 a pack or 8.99? If you like the 3-4 handle your answer is “we are a long way from too much”.

[Farfromgeneva]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

Same with farmers out my way...peaches in particular.

Plenty of Dem 1%ers benefitting from immigration status quo, just like Trumpy.

https://youtu.be/3GCrzjVdmSg?si=j5CIUHjzIAdNwj-P

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

The answer is what do you and the basic average citizen want to pay for their produce. Want strwbwrries at 3.99/4.99 a pack or 8.99? If you like the 3-4 handle your answer is “we are a long way from too much”.

Ratty looking out of season strawberries were selling at Wegmans yesterday for 7.99 a quart. A pint of ratty looking blueberries were 4.99. I went with a bag of Clementines from Morocco of all places for 6 dollars. The problem is when your an immigrant freezing your fanny off at some overcrowded facility in Chicago picking fruit looks to be a dream job. Too bad picking fruits and vegetables is seasonal work. When there are no crops to harvest their isn't any money coming in. So you'll live where your told to until the government figures it all out.

[cradleandshoot]

To anybody out there that doesn't appreciate the hard work immigrants do, any vegetable gardners out there that grow yellow bush beans? If you have ever harvested this particular crop you know what a pain in the neck it is. The beans are hiding and you have to try and find them. I can't imagine doing this job for 10 hours a day.

[youthathletics]

To anybody out there that doesn't appreciate the hard work immigrants do, any vegetable gardners out there that grow yellow bush beans? If you have ever harvested this particular crop you know what a pain in the neck it is. The beans are hiding and you have to try and find them. I can't imagine doing this job for 10 hours a day.

Okra and squash are worse, okra being the worst. Little fine and inty spines will tear your up and itch like hell.....trust me, been there done that. I worked the fields of a farm for years...dreaded okra and squash season. Squash was every 2-3 days, otherwise you'd lose a lot of yield....fine line between ready and overripe.

[Farfromgeneva]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

The answer is what do you and the basic average citizen want to pay for their produce. Want strwbwrries at 3.99/4.99 a pack or 8.99? If you like the 3-4 handle your answer is “we are a long way from too much”.

Ratty looking out of season strawberries were selling at Wegmans yesterday for 7.99 a quart. A pint of ratty looking blueberries were 4.99. I went with a bag of Clementines from Morocco of all places for 6 dollars. The problem is when your an immigrant freezing your fanny off at some overcrowded facility in Chicago picking fruit looks to be a dream job. Too bad picking fruits and vegetables is seasonal work. When there are no crops to harvest their isn't any money coming in. So you'll live where your told to until the government figures it all out.

How many immigrant fruit pickers do you know? You speak of their circumstance as if you understand it well. I get the sense you are just making things up
Here to fit the argument and beliefs you have.

Fruit is cheaper in Georgia, at least in the big cities.

[MDlaxfan76]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Kram, yes, there are only a few people on here who would claim to be MAGA, more that are but don't want to admit it publicly (IMO). You're right that using that term may be off putting to those who wish to not publicly identify as such.

Perhaps I should have said, 'those who agree with Trump and Johnson, having not read the bill, that Congress should not pass it.'...I call that a MAGA position, but if someone does agree with that view, then please do share why they think the bill will not address the "underlying causes".

But more specifically, Salty specifically claimed "underlying cause" was not going to be addressed by the bill...that may well be true, but I want to understand what Salty and those who agree with him think the underlying cause or causes of the issue or issues are. I disaggregated two border matters, mass migration and fentanyl, in case one thinks the "underlying causes" are different...they needn't be in someone's mind, but I wanted to give them a chance to tell us what they're thinking.

If someone wants to say "I'm not MAGA but I think the border bill should be rejected" and say what they think the "underlying causes" are, go for it.

I think there's probably an interesting discussion to be had, but I didn't want to put words in other's mouths. I sincerely want to know what they think.

I would like to believe that all Americans believe in the concept of Making America Great. The other option doesn't make much sense. Does anyone want to Make America Suck?? Maybe MAGA is the wrong moniker to be using for the trumpnistas. Just call em MAS.

It's the "Again" that transfers the message from positive to negative, cradle, as I'm sure you understand. It's what most Trump voters proudly call themselves, led by Trump, so I'm simply using the term they chose.

I've multiple times described the different elements and themes within that moniker, which may be overlapping in any given individual, but not necessarily. Nearly all believe and say either that Trump actually won and was cheated out of remaining in office, or that Dems unfairly rigged the system so that they would win. They nearly all think that mass election fraud actually happened and was either orchestrated or welcomed by Dems. They nearly all think there's a leftist "Deep State" arrayed or organized against their interests, and they nearly all believe that Dems are 'weaponizing government' against their Leader and against any 'conservative' like them. And nearly all believe that whatever the Leader says or does, the most important quality of being a supporter of MAGA is loyalty to the Leader. The last may be denied by some, but in practice they never waver and those who do are swiftly labelled RINOs and in effect excommunicated from the group and its support.

That group of voters now dominates the GOP but not entirely. Same for right wing media, which is now almost, but not entirely, dominated by MAGA promoters or apologists, most everyone else is at least afraid to confront it head on.

Sadly, as you well know there are many Americans that question the greatness of this country today for a wide varieties of reasons. They include Democrats, Republicans, Liberals and Conservatives. It is similar to beauty in that the greatness of this country is measured in the eye of the beholder.

I think that there's a real choice in how we look at the world in which we live, including our personal lives.

Some see the negatives, the problems of our lives etc and say woe is me, others look for the joy in the challenges as opportunities.

So, too, for how we choose to see our country.

We can either darkly bemoan our lack of perfection without hope or we can celebrate the sacrifices to progress of our forebears, embrace the opportunities for further progress, and all the while joyfully appreciate the beauties, whether physical or freedoms or whatever.

Is the glass half empty or half full?
It's a choice.

[old salt]

But more specifically, Salty specifically claimed "underlying cause" was not going to be addressed by the bill...that may well be true, but I want to understand what Salty and those who agree with him think the underlying cause or causes of the issue or issues are.

I think there's probably an interesting discussion to be had, but I didn't want to put words in other's mouths. I sincerely want to know what they think.

Underlying cause (as I saId above) = loopholes in asylum law combined with catch & release as enforcement.

You ARE putting words in my mouth. I did not say the bill would not address the underlying causes.
I said I don't know what's in the bill & neither do you.
But I won't support it if it does not satisfactorily address the underlying causes I cited.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

The answer is what do you and the basic average citizen want to pay for their produce. Want strwbwrries at 3.99/4.99 a pack or 8.99? If you like the 3-4 handle your answer is “we are a long way from too much”.

Ratty looking out of season strawberries were selling at Wegmans yesterday for 7.99 a quart. A pint of ratty looking blueberries were 4.99. I went with a bag of Clementines from Morocco of all places for 6 dollars. The problem is when your an immigrant freezing your fanny off at some overcrowded facility in Chicago picking fruit looks to be a dream job. Too bad picking fruits and vegetables is seasonal work. When there are no crops to harvest their isn't any money coming in. So you'll live where your told to until the government figures it all out.

How many immigrant fruit pickers do you know? You speak of their circumstance as if you understand it well. I get the sense you are just making things up
Here to fit the argument and beliefs you have.

Fruit is cheaper in Georgia, at least in the big cities.

It is probably because our local media have reports about migrant workers quite often. Psssssss, it's not a secret as to the conditions of migrant workers in our area. I don't know any personally and your point is totally irrelevant. Buy yourself a big basket of Georgia peaches. My former neighbor said that he can buy better peaches in South Carolina. What say you?

[a fan]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

It could be that the on going chaos at the southern border is a cash cow for any number of people and government agencies. That Watergate terminology of " following the money" never goes out of style. I wonder how much money has been spent purchasing concertina wire? If your in the business of selling this product your more than happy with the never ending chaos. Damn good for business.

This is why I laughed my *ss off at the idea that Trump.... a man who has had illegal workers at every one of his properties since the day he was born....is somehow gonna be the guy to bring the hammer down, and deport illegal workers and fix our system.

Wouldn't that be covered under do as I say and not as I do?? It has never been a mystery that many rich Republicans very much appreciate cheap labor. There are many farms and farmers in my neck of the woods that couldn't stay in business without migrant labor to pick their crops. The 64 thousand dollar question is how many is too many?

The answer is what do you and the basic average citizen want to pay for their produce. Want strwbwrries at 3.99/4.99 a pack or 8.99? If you like the 3-4 handle your answer is “we are a long way from too much”.

Ratty looking out of season strawberries were selling at Wegmans yesterday for 7.99 a quart. A pint of ratty looking blueberries were 4.99. I went with a bag of Clementines from Morocco of all places for 6 dollars. The problem is when your an immigrant freezing your fanny off at some overcrowded facility in Chicago picking fruit looks to be a dream job. Too bad picking fruits and vegetables is seasonal work. When there are no crops to harvest their isn't any money coming in. So you'll live where your told to until the government figures it all out.

How many immigrant fruit pickers do you know? You speak of their circumstance as if you understand it well. I get the sense you are just making things up
Here to fit the argument and beliefs you have.

Fruit is cheaper in Georgia, at least in the big cities.

It is probably because our local media have reports about migrant workers quite often. Psssssss, it's not a secret as to the conditions of migrant workers in our area. I don't know any personally and your point is totally irrelevant. Buy yourself a big basket of Georgia peaches. My former neighbor said that he can buy better peaches in South Carolina. What say you?

Having used both in spirits? Your neighbor is 100% right!

[kramerica.inc]

How much does the bill spend on fixing the immigration crisis?

How much does the bill earmark for Ukraine?

Anyone know?

[Seacoaster(1)]

How much does the bill spend on fixing the immigration crisis?

How much does the bill earmark for Ukraine?

Anyone know?

Here is an overview of the dollars allocated by subject matter:

https://punchbowl.news/summary/

[Kismet]

It used to be voters went for divided government to insure compromise - now we have divided government that believes in GRIDLOCK where NOTHING gets accomplished.

Evidence the current Senate bill on border security/Ukraine-Israel-Asia Pacific aid which is pronounced DOA by the House (with only a 2 vote majority) within MINUTES of its publication and who then do a 180 and craft a stand-alone Israel aid package with no offsets after insisting on same for months.

[youthathletics]

How much does the bill spend on fixing the immigration crisis?

How much does the bill earmark for Ukraine?

Anyone know?

Here is an overview of the dollars allocated by subject matter:

https://punchbowl.news/summary/

That thing looks like a Pile Of tihS, as it relates to the border.

[Seacoaster(1)]

How much does the bill spend on fixing the immigration crisis?

How much does the bill earmark for Ukraine?

Anyone know?

Here is an overview of the dollars allocated by subject matter:

https://punchbowl.news/summary/

That thing looks like a Pile Of tihS, as it relates to the border.

Why?