Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

[MDlaxfan76]

BTW, what do our MAGA folks think is the "underlying cause" of mass migration?

And what is the "underlying cause" of the opioid epidemic and fentanyl death crisis?

I'm repeating this pair of questions for Salty and any other MAGA takers.

I'm sincerely interested in a serious response.

[old salt]

But nah, MAGA folks like you Salty want the issue for Trump and R's to run on...really, really stupid because it reveals how little you and they care about doing the very best we can...and it reveals that the only reason is because they are instructed to do so by the mega ego candidate they fear.

Dems should and likely will use this as a cudgel these next 9 months.

As usual MDlax figured out my point with no trouble.

...you clowns don't even know what's in the bill or what will compel Biden to enforce it.

yup, we only know that a bunch of very conservative Senators ,who DO know, think that's its by far the most important, and the most conservative border bill in over 40 years.

But hey, since Trump (who definitely doesn't know) says its not good, you (who definitely doesn't know) decide to think it's bad...

I dunno, but I think my source is more credible than yours...

Do your sources intend to tell us what's in the bill before they vote on it ? ...40 years is a long time.

[old salt]

Come & meet those dancing feet.

[Farfromgeneva]

BTW, what do our MAGA folks think is the "underlying cause" of mass migration?

And what is the "underlying cause" of the opioid epidemic and fentanyl death crisis?

I think it’s lilelu the answer for them is the same.

Immigrants come to rape and murder and feed our children lethal drugs. That’s their only intention and all that they actually have done is denied.

[kramerica.inc]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Because your much better off being poor in America than being poor in Guatemala.

[youthathletics]

BTW, what do our MAGA folks think is the "underlying cause" of mass migration?

And what is the "underlying cause" of the opioid epidemic and fentanyl death crisis?

I'm repeating this pair of questions for Salty and any other MAGA takers.

I'm sincerely interested in a serious response.

Why lead the question by inserting MAGA....that certainly sets up your claim that you want a serious response as pure BS.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Yet there is no shortage of MASA folks on this forum.

[cradleandshoot]

BTW, what do our MAGA folks think is the "underlying cause" of mass migration?

And what is the "underlying cause" of the opioid epidemic and fentanyl death crisis?

I'm repeating this pair of questions for Salty and any other MAGA takers.

I'm sincerely interested in a serious response.

Why lead the question by inserting MAGA....that certainly sets up your claim that you want a serious response as pure BS.

#1

[MDlaxfan76]

But nah, MAGA folks like you Salty want the issue for Trump and R's to run on...really, really stupid because it reveals how little you and they care about doing the very best we can...and it reveals that the only reason is because they are instructed to do so by the mega ego candidate they fear.

Dems should and likely will use this as a cudgel these next 9 months.

As usual MDlax figured out my point with no trouble.

...you clowns don't even know what's in the bill or what will compel Biden to enforce it.

yup, we only know that a bunch of very conservative Senators ,who DO know, think that's its by far the most important, and the most conservative border bill in over 40 years.

But hey, since Trump (who definitely doesn't know) says its not good, you (who definitely doesn't know) decide to think it's bad...

I dunno, but I think my source is more credible than yours...

Do your sources intend to tell us what's in the bill before they vote on it ? ...40 years is a long time.

As of yesterday, the negotiators said that the Senate is releasing it today for the full Senate to read before voting.

[cradleandshoot]

But nah, MAGA folks like you Salty want the issue for Trump and R's to run on...really, really stupid because it reveals how little you and they care about doing the very best we can...and it reveals that the only reason is because they are instructed to do so by the mega ego candidate they fear.

Dems should and likely will use this as a cudgel these next 9 months.

As usual MDlax figured out my point with no trouble.

...you clowns don't even know what's in the bill or what will compel Biden to enforce it.

yup, we only know that a bunch of very conservative Senators ,who DO know, think that's its by far the most important, and the most conservative border bill in over 40 years.

But hey, since Trump (who definitely doesn't know) says its not good, you (who definitely doesn't know) decide to think it's bad...

I dunno, but I think my source is more credible than yours...

Do your sources intend to tell us what's in the bill before they vote on it ? ...40 years is a long time.

As of yesterday, the negotiators said that the Senate is releasing it today for the full Senate to read before voting.

That flies in the face of the Pelosi principle. Your suppose to vote on the bill so you can find out what's in the bill.

[MDlaxfan76]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Kram and youth, yes, there are only a few people on here who would claim to be MAGA, more that are but don't want to admit it publicly (IMO). You're right that using that term may be off putting to those who wish to not publicly identify as such.

Perhaps I should have said, 'those who agree with Trump and Johnson, having not read the bill, that Congress should not pass it.'...I call that a MAGA position, but if someone does agree with that view, then please do share why they think the bill will not address the "underlying causes".

But more specifically, Salty specifically claimed "underlying cause" was not going to be addressed by the bill...that may well be true, but I want to understand what Salty and those who agree with him think the underlying cause or causes of the issue or issues are. I disaggregated two border matters, mass migration and fentanyl, in case one thinks the "underlying causes" are different...they needn't be in someone's mind, but I wanted to give them a chance to tell us what they're thinking.

If someone wants to say "I'm not MAGA but I think the border bill should be rejected" and say what they think the "underlying causes" are, go for it.

I think there's probably an interesting discussion to be had, but I didn't want to put words in other's mouths. I sincerely want to know what they think.

[MDlaxfan76]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Because your much better off being poor in America than being poor in Guatemala.

As I don't think you're a Biden voter, presumably you're not answering as such...but I think that's right for a big chunk of people who are mass migrating from poor countries in various parts of the world who are willing to work hard; but that's not enough to sustain a family, safely, where they lived before.

That existed prior to the pandemic, but Covid and its disruptions hit poor countries harder economically than wealthy countries making it much worse in those parts of the world over the past nearly 4 years. War, famine, political and gang violence, skyrocketing inflation, starvation, huge risks to people trying to live a safe life...so, migration from their homes, with all the immense risks of migration, become better than staying put.

Wealthy countries at least offer the prospect of a safer and more prosperous future than staying. Hope for a better future.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Kram, yes, there are only a few people on here who would claim to be MAGA, more that are but don't want to admit it publicly (IMO). You're right that using that term may be off putting to those who wish to not publicly identify as such.

Perhaps I should have said, 'those who agree with Trump and Johnson, having not read the bill, that Congress should not pass it.'...I call that a MAGA position, but if someone does agree with that view, then please do share why they think the bill will not address the "underlying causes".

But more specifically, Salty specifically claimed "underlying cause" was not going to be addressed by the bill...that may well be true, but I want to understand what Salty and those who agree with him think the underlying cause or causes of the issue or issues are. I disaggregated two border matters, mass migration and fentanyl, in case one thinks the "underlying causes" are different...they needn't be in someone's mind, but I wanted to give them a chance to tell us what they're thinking.

If someone wants to say "I'm not MAGA but I think the border bill should be rejected" and say what they think the "underlying causes" are, go for it.

I think there's probably an interesting discussion to be had, but I didn't want to put words in other's mouths. I sincerely want to know what they think.

I would like to believe that all Americans believe in the concept of Making America Great. The other option doesn't make much sense. Does anyone want to Make America Suck?? Maybe MAGA is the wrong moniker to be using for the trumpnistas. Just call em MAS.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Because your much better off being poor in America than being poor in Guatemala.

As I don't think you're a Biden voter, presumably you're not answering as such...but I think that's right for a big chunk of people who are mass migrating from poor countries in various parts of the world who are willing to work hard; but that's not enough to sustain a family, safely, where they lived before.

That existed prior to the pandemic, but Covid and its disruptions hit poor countries harder economically than wealthy countries making it much worse in those parts of the world over the past nearly 4 years. War, famine, political and gang violence, skyrocketing inflation, starvation, huge risks to people trying to live a safe life...so, migration from their homes, with all the immense risks of migration, become better than staying put.

Wealthy countries at least offer the prospect of a safer and more prosperous future than staying. Hope for a better future.

Well, apparently with no plan in place by the Biden people to accommodate 100s of thousands of new arrivals being sprinkled liberally here there and everywhere with no support system in place all at one time might not have been the best decision in retrospect. ( pardon the run on sentence) That could be why the Mayors of NY and Chicago have found themselves between a rock and a hard place. One thing as a nation we should have learned from our immigration experience learned at Ellis Island.... have a game plan and keep the situation under control.

Anybody want to tell me what the game plan has ever been at the Southern border? The wing and a prayer method sure as hell isn't working out for any of the people involved.

[MDlaxfan76]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Kram, yes, there are only a few people on here who would claim to be MAGA, more that are but don't want to admit it publicly (IMO). You're right that using that term may be off putting to those who wish to not publicly identify as such.

Perhaps I should have said, 'those who agree with Trump and Johnson, having not read the bill, that Congress should not pass it.'...I call that a MAGA position, but if someone does agree with that view, then please do share why they think the bill will not address the "underlying causes".

But more specifically, Salty specifically claimed "underlying cause" was not going to be addressed by the bill...that may well be true, but I want to understand what Salty and those who agree with him think the underlying cause or causes of the issue or issues are. I disaggregated two border matters, mass migration and fentanyl, in case one thinks the "underlying causes" are different...they needn't be in someone's mind, but I wanted to give them a chance to tell us what they're thinking.

If someone wants to say "I'm not MAGA but I think the border bill should be rejected" and say what they think the "underlying causes" are, go for it.

I think there's probably an interesting discussion to be had, but I didn't want to put words in other's mouths. I sincerely want to know what they think.

I would like to believe that all Americans believe in the concept of Making America Great. The other option doesn't make much sense. Does anyone want to Make America Suck?? Maybe MAGA is the wrong moniker to be using for the trumpnistas. Just call em MAS.

It's the "Again" that transfers the message from positive to negative, cradle, as I'm sure you understand. It's what most Trump voters proudly call themselves, led by Trump, so I'm simply using the term they chose.

I've multiple times described the different elements and themes within that moniker, which may be overlapping in any given individual, but not necessarily. Nearly all believe and say either that Trump actually won and was cheated out of remaining in office, or that Dems unfairly rigged the system so that they would win. They nearly all think that mass election fraud actually happened and was either orchestrated or welcomed by Dems. They nearly all think there's a leftist "Deep State" arrayed or organized against their interests, and they nearly all believe that Dems are 'weaponizing government' against their Leader and against any 'conservative' like them. And nearly all believe that whatever the Leader says or does, the most important quality of being a supporter of MAGA is loyalty to the Leader. The last may be denied by some, but in practice they never waver and those who do are swiftly labelled RINOs and in effect excommunicated from the group and its support.

That group of voters now dominates the GOP but not entirely. Same for right wing media, which is now almost, but not entirely, dominated by MAGA promoters or apologists, most everyone else is at least afraid to confront it head on.

[a fan]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Difference between Biden voters and blind Biden supporters, Kram.

No one in this current conversation is a blind Biden supporter.

The underlying cause is that we've had a broken immigration system for 40 years. That's the underlying cause that makes either this year, or 2019, or 2008, or 2002, or 1998..... a migration problem. Fix that, and we can work with South American countries long term to manage the flow of refugees...which come and go over time.

This thread was started in 2018, in case you missed it. Trump didn't do diddly about the underlying problem.

Biden, to his credit, sent an Immigration Reform Bill to the House in January of 2020. He did it so quick, even I didn't notice he did it.

It just sat there, Congress doing nothing about it. So that's on Congress...both parties.

Until our OVERALL VISA & IMMIGRATION SYSTEM is fixed, we could park tanks on the border that open fire on immigrants, and it wouldn't do diddly to fix the underlying problems.....10 million+ illegal workers in the US BEFORE Biden showed up.

Give those here work visas. This "problem" goes away. And YOU and your kids will stand a fighting chance of enjoying Medicare and SS because unlike Japan and the EU, we'll have a flood of new, young workers paying in to the system.

Or? Keep right on with this stupid sales pitch that "we need to seal the border"....same sales pitch that's been made since Reagan was in charge, FFS. How's that workin' out?

[MDlaxfan76]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Because your much better off being poor in America than being poor in Guatemala.

As I don't think you're a Biden voter, presumably you're not answering as such...but I think that's right for a big chunk of people who are mass migrating from poor countries in various parts of the world who are willing to work hard; but that's not enough to sustain a family, safely, where they lived before.

That existed prior to the pandemic, but Covid and its disruptions hit poor countries harder economically than wealthy countries making it much worse in those parts of the world over the past nearly 4 years. War, famine, political and gang violence, skyrocketing inflation, starvation, huge risks to people trying to live a safe life...so, migration from their homes, with all the immense risks of migration, become better than staying put.

Wealthy countries at least offer the prospect of a safer and more prosperous future than staying. Hope for a better future.

Well, apparently with no plan in place by the Biden people to accommodate 100s of thousands of new arrivals being sprinkled liberally here there and everywhere with no support system in place all at one time might not have been the best decision in retrospect. ( pardon the run on sentence) That could be why the Mayors of NY and Chicago have found themselves between a rock and a hard place. One thing as a nation we should have learned from our immigration experience learned at Ellis Island.... have a game plan and keep the situation under control.

Anybody want to tell me what the game plan has ever been at the Southern border? The wing and a prayer method sure as hell isn't working out for any of the people involved.

Plenty to critique for sure.

Biden actually proposed a "plan" day one of his Admin but it went nowhere...and now a "plan". which a bunch of conservative Senators say is the best in 40 years, is being opposed by Trump, Johnson, and MAGA wing without even reading it.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Kram, yes, there are only a few people on here who would claim to be MAGA, more that are but don't want to admit it publicly (IMO). You're right that using that term may be off putting to those who wish to not publicly identify as such.

Perhaps I should have said, 'those who agree with Trump and Johnson, having not read the bill, that Congress should not pass it.'...I call that a MAGA position, but if someone does agree with that view, then please do share why they think the bill will not address the "underlying causes".

But more specifically, Salty specifically claimed "underlying cause" was not going to be addressed by the bill...that may well be true, but I want to understand what Salty and those who agree with him think the underlying cause or causes of the issue or issues are. I disaggregated two border matters, mass migration and fentanyl, in case one thinks the "underlying causes" are different...they needn't be in someone's mind, but I wanted to give them a chance to tell us what they're thinking.

If someone wants to say "I'm not MAGA but I think the border bill should be rejected" and say what they think the "underlying causes" are, go for it.

I think there's probably an interesting discussion to be had, but I didn't want to put words in other's mouths. I sincerely want to know what they think.

I would like to believe that all Americans believe in the concept of Making America Great. The other option doesn't make much sense. Does anyone want to Make America Suck?? Maybe MAGA is the wrong moniker to be using for the trumpnistas. Just call em MAS.

It's the "Again" that transfers the message from positive to negative, cradle, as I'm sure you understand. It's what most Trump voters proudly call themselves, led by Trump, so I'm simply using the term they chose.

I've multiple times described the different elements and themes within that moniker, which may be overlapping in any given individual, but not necessarily. Nearly all believe and say either that Trump actually won and was cheated out of remaining in office, or that Dems unfairly rigged the system so that they would win. They nearly all think that mass election fraud actually happened and was either orchestrated or welcomed by Dems. They nearly all think there's a leftist "Deep State" arrayed or organized against their interests, and they nearly all believe that Dems are 'weaponizing government' against their Leader and against any 'conservative' like them. And nearly all believe that whatever the Leader says or does, the most important quality of being a supporter of MAGA is loyalty to the Leader. The last may be denied by some, but in practice they never waver and those who do are swiftly labelled RINOs and in effect excommunicated from the group and its support.

That group of voters now dominates the GOP but not entirely. Same for right wing media, which is now almost, but not entirely, dominated by MAGA promoters or apologists, most everyone else is at least afraid to confront it head on.

Sadly, as you well know there are many Americans that question the greatness of this country today for a wide varieties of reasons. They include Democrats, Republicans, Liberals and Conservatives. It is similar to beauty in that the greatness of this country is measured in the eye of the beholder.

[cradleandshoot]

We only have a few maga people around here.
Many more on the other side.
Like to hear what the Biden voters think is the underlying cause of this mass migration too.

Because your much better off being poor in America than being poor in Guatemala.

As I don't think you're a Biden voter, presumably you're not answering as such...but I think that's right for a big chunk of people who are mass migrating from poor countries in various parts of the world who are willing to work hard; but that's not enough to sustain a family, safely, where they lived before.

That existed prior to the pandemic, but Covid and its disruptions hit poor countries harder economically than wealthy countries making it much worse in those parts of the world over the past nearly 4 years. War, famine, political and gang violence, skyrocketing inflation, starvation, huge risks to people trying to live a safe life...so, migration from their homes, with all the immense risks of migration, become better than staying put.

Wealthy countries at least offer the prospect of a safer and more prosperous future than staying. Hope for a better future.

Well, apparently with no plan in place by the Biden people to accommodate 100s of thousands of new arrivals being sprinkled liberally here there and everywhere with no support system in place all at one time might not have been the best decision in retrospect. ( pardon the run on sentence) That could be why the Mayors of NY and Chicago have found themselves between a rock and a hard place. One thing as a nation we should have learned from our immigration experience learned at Ellis Island.... have a game plan and keep the situation under control.

Anybody want to tell me what the game plan has ever been at the Southern border? The wing and a prayer method sure as hell isn't working out for any of the people involved.

Plenty to critique for sure.

Biden actually proposed a "plan" day one of his Admin but it went nowhere...and now a "plan". which a bunch of conservative Senators say is the best in 40 years, is being opposed by Trump, Johnson, and MAGA wing without even reading it.

How hard did Biden push this plan?? I never heard diddly about it until it was brought up on this forum recently. I don't recall Joe doing the prime time TV broadcast pushing his vision for the southern border. The only way any action would have happened would have required Biden to light a fire under the collective fannies of those people that could have made it happen. Which should come as no surprise. The people with the authority to fix it have religiously ignored it for 40 years.