NESCAC

[RE6ULATOR]

Well, did a deep dive on the Middlebury men’s lacrosse scheduling crisis. These are the games outside of the New England/Upstate NY region that they’ve had (or even scheduled in the cancelled year) since 2019. Union @ Sparks Md 2024, Mustang Classic 2019. That’s it. 2 trips. A little more digging and I found that over the same course of time Middlebury women’s lacrosse has been treated to 9 distant regular season away game trips, spanning NJ, PA and MD.

Is it possible they could be sharing the same lopsided budget?

Middlebury beat Union in Austin, TX in 2023. Some deep dive ...

Maybe there is a funding discrepancy or maybe the men's lacrosse coaches have decided that it's unnecessary to make their players endure 6+ hour bus rides and multiple flights since their schedule is already packed with top 20 opponents and, as someone already said, they'll pull an auto-at-large if they finish in the top 4.

The real question is why you have such a (totally non-gay, totally healthy, totally normal in all ways) hard-on for Dave Campbell.

Yes. My mistake. Make that a WHOPPING 3 trips…
At least you can see that 9 is more than 3, and that’s over 5 years. So there IS a disparity, not MAYBE.
It was said in a previous post that they had a blast in Texas, so I would hope the coaches aren’t trying to prevent them from unnecessarily “having a blast.”

In any event, I didn’t even know that was the coach’s name until someone said it in a post above. But if he does the scheduling, yea, not a fan of the “just enough to get into the tournament,” not worried about the player experience, schtick.

[TucoBPJMRamirez]

Dude you have quite an obsession going on with middlebury. What's the story there for you?

[RE6ULATOR]

Dude you have quite an obsession going on with middlebury. What's the story there for you?

I asked a simple question, and the defensive nature with which some people responded has peaked further curiosity with the root cause. I don’t know why some too issue with my use of the word “schtick.” It seems like it fits. Year after year, it’s the same with this Middlebury team. Read the other people’s comments above. These types of questions are not unique to me, so instead of gaslighting, try answering them, or move on. But they don’t just go away.

[TucoBPJMRamirez]

Dude you have quite an obsession going on with middlebury. What's the story there for you?

I asked a simple question, and the defensive nature with which some people responded has peaked further curiosity with the root cause. I don’t know why some too issue with my use of the word “schtick.” It seems like it fits. Year after year, it’s the same with this Middlebury team. Read the other people’s comments above. These types of questions are not unique to me, so instead of gaslighting, try answering them, or move on. But they don’t just go away.

I read the conversation. Other guys answered your question - remote/rigorous school, kids have large study loads so extra travel is a burden, coach/school has relationships, closer schools are ranked anyway, NCAA will always take top 4, etc, etc.

Seems like you want a middlebury player/parent/fan to come on here and agree with you about how boring it is to play the same schools. I feel like that would have happened by now if it was true.

You did make me curious though so I looked back through the middlebury schedules. Looks like they used to beat up on endicott and plattsburg every year. After covid they dropped those schools for union and babson, so it looks like the coach made a good call with that.

Anyway good luck with your crusade.

[RE6ULATOR]

I read the conversation. Other guys answered your question - remote/rigorous school, kids have large study loads so extra travel is a burden, coach/school has relationships, closer schools are ranked anyway, NCAA will always take top 4, etc, etc…

Riiiiiigggghhhhttt, and those reasons crumble when taking into consideration the Women’s team. They have experienced considerable success. And facing those same hurdles, they manage quite a bit of travel. I then asked another question about whether they perhaps share a budget.

I don’t have a goal, other than answers/information. It’s a conversation, and clearly one some people would rather not have. FWIW, those are typically the ones that need to be had…

A little off topic here, but I have a question about a NESCAC team...

I have been one of the people who for the last 4-5 years kept thinking "this is the year Middlebury makes some noise..." and finally in 2023 I think we could see some significant results for them in that light. I am very worried about the panthers this year due the the losses on the defensive end. They have graduated:

11 Simpson 20 GP 19 GS
22 Kantaros 21 GP 17 GS
46 Dobensky 21 GP 20 GS
50 Muldoon 21 GP 21 GS

3 starting poles and 1 DM. They did play a freshman in goal and the other D Mid spot and 1 sophomore defensively but that is a lot of experience that is graduating. They faced off at 48% and starting goalie saved 49.6% of shots so I am worried that the lack of experience could be a major issue, especially early on. Anyone have any idea who may be stepping up on that end of the field with so many openings?

How dare you ask a legitimate question!

This is the NESCAC thread, hypothetical debates about Tufts/D3 vs. the MAAC All Star team only.

[SaltCounty]

Midd's schedule may stay the same, but its still a quality schedule.
Hamilton has finally posted theirs - Utica, Lynchburg, MIT, Oneonta
And their proximity to quality opponents is much better than Midd

[Laxxal22]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Middlebury as an institution has told the coaches of traditionally white/upper crust mens sports to do more with less over the past decade and indeed the women's team has a fatter allowance both in admissions tips and travel budgets.

I also think the reasons Tuco and others stated. Overall, they're in a big conference and there aren't a ton of strong non-conference options within a 3ish hour drive for midweek games, and they already play the traditionally strongest of those teams.

What exactly is it you want them to do or have Midd/NESCAC fans answer for?

[RE6ULATOR]

…What exactly is it you want them to do or have Midd/NESCAC fans answer for?

Again… this isn’t something I “want NESCAC fans to answer for.”

It just stands out. Them and Bowdoin. But Bowdoin isn’t consistently touted as a top10 team the way Middlebury is. And no, I haven’t looked to see if there is a similar disparity between man’s and women’s lacrosse travel at Bowdoin. It’s not the the lack of an answer that is a problem for me, so much as it’s a denial of the question entirely.

[jumpman23]

…What exactly is it you want them to do or have Midd/NESCAC fans answer for?

Again… this isn’t something I “want NESCAC fans to answer for.”

It just stands out. Them and Bowdoin. But Bowdoin isn’t consistently touted as a top10 team the way Middlebury is. And no, I haven’t looked to see if there is a similar disparity between man’s and women’s lacrosse travel at Bowdoin. It’s not the the lack of an answer that is a problem for me, so much as it’s a denial of the question entirely.

I have no horse in this race, but after all this space in this forum covered on this debate, I think it is a safe bet that either Midd or Bowdoin will play Memorial Day weekend. Which makes perfect sense for the Class of 2024 at both schools since Graduation at both places is that weekend. No high school graduation ceremony, no Freshman year of college, and no Collège Graduation ceremony. I am sure the players and their parents won't care one bit!!!

[RE6ULATOR]

…What exactly is it you want them to do or have Midd/NESCAC fans answer for?

Again… this isn’t something I “want NESCAC fans to answer for.”

It just stands out. Them and Bowdoin. But Bowdoin isn’t consistently touted as a top10 team the way Middlebury is. And no, I haven’t looked to see if there is a similar disparity between man’s and women’s lacrosse travel at Bowdoin. It’s not the the lack of an answer that is a problem for me, so much as it’s a denial of the question entirely.

I have no horse in this race, but after all this space in this forum covered on this debate, I think it is a safe bet that either Midd or Bowdoin will play Memorial Day weekend. Which makes perfect sense for the Class of 2024 at both schools since Graduation at both places is that weekend. No high school graduation ceremony, no Freshman year of college, and no Collège Graduation ceremony. I am sure the players and their parents won't care one bit!!!

That would be altogether fitting.

[Leonard Washington]

I have no horse in this race, but after all this space in this forum covered on this debate, I think it is a safe bet that either Midd or Bowdoin will play Memorial Day weekend.

I beg your pardon?

[choochooCharlie]

I have no horse in this race, but after all this space in this forum covered on this debate, I think it is a safe bet that either Midd or Bowdoin will play Memorial Day weekend.

I beg your pardon?

Haven’t you read this thread?

Tufts
Middlebury
Bowdoin
Amherst
Williams
Hamilton
Weslyan
Trinity
Conn
Colby
Bates

That’s not the NESCAC rankings, that’s the NATIONAL rankings. After that comes

Salisbury
CNU
Lynchburg
Gettysburg
Etc etc…

[Unknown Participant]

I have no horse in this race, but after all this space in this forum covered on this debate, I think it is a safe bet that either Midd or Bowdoin will play Memorial Day weekend.

I beg your pardon?

Haven’t you read this thread?

Tufts
Middlebury
Bowdoin
Amherst
Williams
Hamilton
Weslyan
Trinity
Conn
Colby
Bates

That’s not the NESCAC rankings, that’s the NATIONAL rankings. After that comes

Salisbury
CNU
Lynchburg
Gettysburg
Etc etc…

Stop trying so hard.

[Laxxal22]

…What exactly is it you want them to do or have Midd/NESCAC fans answer for?

Again… this isn’t something I “want NESCAC fans to answer for.”

It just stands out. Them and Bowdoin. But Bowdoin isn’t consistently touted as a top10 team the way Middlebury is. And no, I haven’t looked to see if there is a similar disparity between man’s and women’s lacrosse travel at Bowdoin. It’s not the the lack of an answer that is a problem for me, so much as it’s a denial of the question entirely.

I think people have given multiple answers, travel/location being the biggest issue—Midd and Bowdoin are far from everything. It's akin to Notre Dame only playing 11 regular season games a year and relying on the strength of ACC schedule wins/competition to carry them into playoff consideration.

[smoova]

But Bowdoin isn’t consistently touted as a top10 team the way Middlebury is.

Bowdoin was ranked in the preseason top 10 in both 2023 and 2024. Midd wasn't even in the top 20 at this time last year. Come on man.

[SaltCounty]

…What exactly is it you want them to do or have Midd/NESCAC fans answer for?

Again… this isn’t something I “want NESCAC fans to answer for.”

It just stands out. Them and Bowdoin. But Bowdoin isn’t consistently touted as a top10 team the way Middlebury is. And no, I haven’t looked to see if there is a similar disparity between man’s and women’s lacrosse travel at Bowdoin. It’s not the the lack of an answer that is a problem for me, so much as it’s a denial of the question entirely.

I have no horse in this race, but after all this space in this forum covered on this debate, I think it is a safe bet that either Midd or Bowdoin will play Memorial Day weekend. Which makes perfect sense for the Class of 2024 at both schools since Graduation at both places is that weekend. No high school graduation ceremony, no Freshman year of college, and no Collège Graduation ceremony. I am sure the players and their parents won't care one bit!!!

Bowdoin has never won the NESCAC and has a single trip to the Elite 8, in program history.
I'd agree they're in position to do this, for the first time.
But let's see them actually do it before calling it a safe bet.

[shorelax12]

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Middlebury as an institution has told the coaches of traditionally white/upper crust mens sports to do more with less over the past decade and indeed the women's team has a fatter allowance both in admissions tips and travel budgets.

I also think the reasons Tuco and others stated. Overall, they're in a big conference and there aren't a ton of strong non-conference options within a 3ish hour drive for midweek games, and they already play the traditionally strongest of those teams.

What exactly is it you want them to do or have Midd/NESCAC fans answer for?

I surprised that the disparity between the Midd. men's and women's teams is such a mystery. The women's team is a perennial NESCAC and national powerhouse, that success draws a lot of interest and funding.

[Laxxal22]

I surprised that the disparity between the Midd. men's and women's teams is such a mystery. The women's team is a perennial NESCAC and national powerhouse, that success draws a lot of interest and funding.

Though the guys that played then are starting to get gray hairs there was a time when the Middlebury men's team was pretty decent too... I'm sure it's a combo of multiple reasons why the paths of the programs went different ways. This is probably the closest in ranking Middlebury's men's and women's programs have been in the preseason for quite awhile.

[RE6ULATOR]

I think people have given multiple answers, travel/location being the biggest issue—Midd and Bowdoin are far from everything. It's akin to Notre Dame only playing 11 regular season games a year and relying on the strength of ACC schedule wins/competition to carry them into playoff consideration.

I surprised that the disparity between the Midd. men's and women's teams is such a mystery. The women's team is a perennial NESCAC and national powerhouse, that success draws a lot of interest and funding.

Though the guys that played then are starting to get gray hairs there was a time when the Middlebury men's team was pretty decent too... I'm sure it's a combo of multiple reasons why the paths of the programs went different ways. This is probably the closest in ranking Middlebury's men's and women's programs have been in the preseason for quite awhile.

Finally. A few decent responses. Thank you Laxxal.

Hoping for the players that the team gets some more funds, in order to give them the memories of team travel and variety of opponents, so as to make their experience as enjoyable as possible.

[SouthieLax]

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

That’s your argument?!? The Cleveland State coach scheduled a scrimmage a week before their first game and you think it was so he could rest his starters? Yet that NJIT scrimmage was very instructive…please go home troll this has gone on for a month now.