NESCAC

[jumpman23]

As he continently ignores the Cleveland state and Wagner results.

Checks 2023 results….. sees that Wagner and NJIT are very similar teams.

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

Denison lost its AA goalie, right? How'd the defense look?

[jumpman23]

Can we move on from bashing non NESCAC schools on academics from this thread. Let keep it NESCAC only.

Any thoughts on nescac scrimmages? Any interesting matchups?

[choochooCharlie]

As he continently ignores the Cleveland state and Wagner results.

Checks 2023 results….. sees that Wagner and NJIT are very similar teams.

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

Denison lost its AA goalie, right? How'd the defense look?

Yes. Darrach graduated. D looked good. I think it will be Crowley, Pelegríno, and Holder. Crowley, being the only holdover, should shoulder the lion’s share of the lockdown role.

As far as NJIT, I think if you tossed them into the NEXCAC mix it would help settle a lot of this debate. There are a lot of parallels with NJIT and the NEXCAC. Sooner we all digest that, the better.

[Laxxal22]

Tufts on the other hand, seems to be going in the other direction. They had an undergrad enrollment of 5200 in 2016 and for 2021, it says 6800.
2016 had an acceptance rate of 40%, 2021 is 10%

In the spirit of "How many Duke players..."

If it's announced this week that Tufts is joining the Patriot League beginning the 2025/26 academic year, where do you think they are by 2030 when they'd first be eligible for postseason play?

What do you think plays more of a factor in the transition - the level of players, or the level of coaching staff?

Talent upgrade would be the easier part imo. First class would be tough as you're getting a late start and that inaugural class will never have postseason eligibility. After that it's basically recruiting the same pools but players that formerly would've been the reach get for a class probably become the standard recruits.

[Laxxal22]

Actually drop NJIT into the NESCAC and for the first year or two they are indeed maybe 3 or 4 in the conference but after that they rapidly get worse. They are the worst academic school in the conference and, without any ability to give scholarships anymore and located in Newark, there is no reason for any player who could get into one of the other NESCACs to chose them. Their roster sinks even lower than it is now.

So flip it. Bring NESCAC to DI. They keep their academic standards, they still play second fiddle to IVY, and they still get the same kids. NJIT gets same kids they have been. Now what?

I said in my original hypothetical that the other NESCACs would get destroyed if they moved to D1. Cold, rural, difficult, and tiny with the commitment of D1 athletics with almost none of the benefits other than saying you play D1 is a tough sell. Talent level might actually dip for the Midd, Amherst, Bowdoin level teams.

[laxxer27]

Can we move on from bashing non NESCAC schools on academics from this thread. Let keep it NESCAC only.

Any thoughts on nescac scrimmages? Any interesting matchups?

Feb17 Colby Bates Emmanual
Feb 17 Amherst, Bates and Tufts have intrasquad scrimmages listed
Feb 17 Trinity hosts Vassar, Saint Josephs CT and Maritime
Feb 24 williams at Middlebruy for a scrimmage
Feb 24? Hamilton and Geneseo at the Hobart Bubble

[RE6ULATOR]

Actually drop NJIT into the NESCAC and for the first year or two they are indeed maybe 3 or 4 in the conference but after that they rapidly get worse. They are the worst academic school in the conference and, without any ability to give scholarships anymore and located in Newark, there is no reason for any player who could get into one of the other NESCACs to chose them. Their roster sinks even lower than it is now.

So flip it. Bring NESCAC to DI. They keep their academic standards, they still play second fiddle to IVY, and they still get the same kids. NJIT gets same kids they have been. Now what?

I said in my original hypothetical that the other NESCACs would get destroyed if they moved to D1. Cold, rural, difficult, and tiny with the commitment of D1 athletics with almost none of the benefits other than saying you play D1 is a tough sell. Talent level might actually dip for the Midd, Amherst, Bowdoin level teams.

Agreed

As he continently ignores the Cleveland state and Wagner results.

Checks 2023 results….. sees that Wagner and NJIT are very similar teams.

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

Denison lost its AA goalie, right? How'd the defense look?

Yes. Darrach graduated. D looked good. I think it will be Crowley, Pelegríno, and Holder. Crowley, being the only holdover, should shoulder the lion’s share of the lockdown role.

As far as NJIT, I think if you tossed them into the NEXCAC mix it would help settle a lot of this debate. There are a lot of parallels with NJIT and the NEXCAC. Sooner we all digest that, the better.

I think that’s why a lot of people don’t get what laxdad is saying. There is a big disparity in depth when it comes to these divisions. Tufts might have A line of middies that could hang at NJITs caliber, but go to lines 2-3 and see the drop off.

[laxdad1434]

Actually drop NJIT into the NESCAC and for the first year or two they are indeed maybe 3 or 4 in the conference but after that they rapidly get worse. They are the worst academic school in the conference and, without any ability to give scholarships anymore and located in Newark, there is no reason for any player who could get into one of the other NESCACs to chose them. Their roster sinks even lower than it is now.

So flip it. Bring NESCAC to DI. They keep their academic standards, they still play second fiddle to IVY, and they still get the same kids. NJIT gets same kids they have been. Now what?

I said in my original hypothetical that the other NESCACs would get destroyed if they moved to D1. Cold, rural, difficult, and tiny with the commitment of D1 athletics with almost none of the benefits other than saying you play D1 is a tough sell. Talent level might actually dip for the Midd, Amherst, Bowdoin level teams.

Agreed

As he continently ignores the Cleveland state and Wagner results.

Checks 2023 results….. sees that Wagner and NJIT are very similar teams.

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

Denison lost its AA goalie, right? How'd the defense look?

Yes. Darrach graduated. D looked good. I think it will be Crowley, Pelegríno, and Holder. Crowley, being the only holdover, should shoulder the lion’s share of the lockdown role.

As far as NJIT, I think if you tossed them into the NEXCAC mix it would help settle a lot of this debate. There are a lot of parallels with NJIT and the NEXCAC. Sooner we all digest that, the better.

I think that’s why a lot of people don’t get what laxdad is saying. There is a big disparity in depth when it comes to these divisions. Tufts might have A line of middies that could hang at NJITs caliber, but go to lines 2-3 and see the drop off.

Yep...

[Laxxal22]

I think that’s why a lot of people don’t get what laxdad is saying. There is a big disparity in depth when it comes to these divisions. Tufts might have A line of middies that could hang at NJITs caliber, but go to lines 2-3 and see the drop off.

His point has always been understood just never conceded. It all comes down to how you believe D1 teams consistently outside of the top 50 stack up against D3 teams consistently in the top five.

[pcowlax]

Actually drop NJIT into the NESCAC and for the first year or two they are indeed maybe 3 or 4 in the conference but after that they rapidly get worse. They are the worst academic school in the conference and, without any ability to give scholarships anymore and located in Newark, there is no reason for any player who could get into one of the other NESCACs to chose them. Their roster sinks even lower than it is now.

So flip it. Bring NESCAC to DI. They keep their academic standards, they still play second fiddle to IVY, and they still get the same kids. NJIT gets same kids they have been. Now what?

I said in my original hypothetical that the other NESCACs would get destroyed if they moved to D1. Cold, rural, difficult, and tiny with the commitment of D1 athletics with almost none of the benefits other than saying you play D1 is a tough sell. Talent level might actually dip for the Midd, Amherst, Bowdoin level teams.

Agreed

As he continently ignores the Cleveland state and Wagner results.

Checks 2023 results….. sees that Wagner and NJIT are very similar teams.

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

Denison lost its AA goalie, right? How'd the defense look?

Yes. Darrach graduated. D looked good. I think it will be Crowley, Pelegríno, and Holder. Crowley, being the only holdover, should shoulder the lion’s share of the lockdown role.

As far as NJIT, I think if you tossed them into the NEXCAC mix it would help settle a lot of this debate. There are a lot of parallels with NJIT and the NEXCAC. Sooner we all digest that, the better.

I think that’s why a lot of people don’t get what laxdad is saying. There is a big disparity in depth when it comes to these divisions. Tufts might have A line of middies that could hang at NJITs caliber, but go to lines 2-3 and see the drop off.

Yep...

Please, please, continue not to let reality hit you in the eye. The crappy D1 teams are playing and losing to D3 teams in scrimmages right now, as every knows they would, and as they do every year. Tufts second line mids are typically WEST-1 or FCIAC or IAC or ISL or comparable stars, they would very likely start at NJIT. Look at the high school programs the NJIT roster comes from There are a lot of parallels between NJIT and Stevens, those are schools that are comparable academically and in lax, though most years Stevens would take them.

[laxdad1434]

Actually drop NJIT into the NESCAC and for the first year or two they are indeed maybe 3 or 4 in the conference but after that they rapidly get worse. They are the worst academic school in the conference and, without any ability to give scholarships anymore and located in Newark, there is no reason for any player who could get into one of the other NESCACs to chose them. Their roster sinks even lower than it is now.

So flip it. Bring NESCAC to DI. They keep their academic standards, they still play second fiddle to IVY, and they still get the same kids. NJIT gets same kids they have been. Now what?

I said in my original hypothetical that the other NESCACs would get destroyed if they moved to D1. Cold, rural, difficult, and tiny with the commitment of D1 athletics with almost none of the benefits other than saying you play D1 is a tough sell. Talent level might actually dip for the Midd, Amherst, Bowdoin level teams.

Agreed

As he continently ignores the Cleveland state and Wagner results.

Checks 2023 results….. sees that Wagner and NJIT are very similar teams.

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

Denison lost its AA goalie, right? How'd the defense look?

Yes. Darrach graduated. D looked good. I think it will be Crowley, Pelegríno, and Holder. Crowley, being the only holdover, should shoulder the lion’s share of the lockdown role.

As far as NJIT, I think if you tossed them into the NEXCAC mix it would help settle a lot of this debate. There are a lot of parallels with NJIT and the NEXCAC. Sooner we all digest that, the better.

I think that’s why a lot of people don’t get what laxdad is saying. There is a big disparity in depth when it comes to these divisions. Tufts might have A line of middies that could hang at NJITs caliber, but go to lines 2-3 and see the drop off.

Yep...

Please, please, continue not to let reality hit you in the eye. The crappy D1 teams are playing and losing to D3 teams in scrimmages right now, as every knows they would, and as they do every year. Tufts second line mids are typically WEST-1 or FCIAC or IAC or ISL or comparable stars, they would very likely start at NJIT. Look at the high school programs the NJIT roster comes from There are a lot of parallels between NJIT and Stevens, those are schools that are comparable academically and in lax, though most years Stevens would take them.

You're a clueless mess. Go take your moms Volvo for a ride and get some air.

[TucoBPJMRamirez]

Sure will be nice when the season kicks off and the trolls go back to arguing about who will finish 5th in the CLC.

[Can Opener]

In April 2021, Tufts defeated Dartmouth 15-9 in Hanover in an actual game. The Jumbos led 8-3 at halftime. Dartmouth's All American goalie Hincks played 53 minutes and made 19 saves. Dartmouth's lineup included players who would become four of their top six points leaders the following season. George Prince, who led Dartmouth in both goals and assists the following spring, played almost the whole game for Dartmouth. That '22 team, BTW, defeated Bryant, UVM, Siena and St. John's using basically the same offensive personnel that played Tufts the prior spring. Dartmouth won 18 of 28 faceoffs in the Tufts game, so it wasn't a matter of a possession anomaly. For those who don't quite believe it, the box score is here: https://dartmouthsports.com/sports/mens ... core/17727

It shouldn't be that controversial to acknowledge that the top 10 teams in D3 are better than the bottom 20 teams in D1. Maybe there's an argument about how the #1 D3 team would fare against the #35 D1 team, but a typical Tufts team from the last 15 years would rinse NJIT. Full stop. There is no evidence to the contrary.

[TucoBPJMRamirez]

It shouldn't be that controversial to acknowledge that the top 10 teams in D3 are better than the bottom 20 teams in D1. Maybe there's an argument about how the #1 D3 team would fare against the #35 D1 team, but a typical Tufts team from the last 15 years would rinse NJIT. Full stop. There is no evidence to the contrary.

But have you seeeeeen NJIT?
The SIZE!
The SPEED!!!
The DEPTH!!!!!
It BOGGLES the MIND!!!!!

[Laxattackjack]

Actually drop NJIT into the NESCAC and for the first year or two they are indeed maybe 3 or 4 in the conference but after that they rapidly get worse. They are the worst academic school in the conference and, without any ability to give scholarships anymore and located in Newark, there is no reason for any player who could get into one of the other NESCACs to chose them. Their roster sinks even lower than it is now.

So flip it. Bring NESCAC to DI. They keep their academic standards, they still play second fiddle to IVY, and they still get the same kids. NJIT gets same kids they have been. Now what?

I said in my original hypothetical that the other NESCACs would get destroyed if they moved to D1. Cold, rural, difficult, and tiny with the commitment of D1 athletics with almost none of the benefits other than saying you play D1 is a tough sell. Talent level might actually dip for the Midd, Amherst, Bowdoin level teams.

Agreed

As he continently ignores the Cleveland state and Wagner results.

Checks 2023 results….. sees that Wagner and NJIT are very similar teams.

I know nothing about Cleveland state, but I doubt they played starters deep, they open the season this Saturday, 2/3.

York is a very good team, well coached. Wagner is a mess and lost a lot of kids, including their goalie and ssdm, both went to Ohio St, a pole that went to Kean, and an LSM whereabouts unknown. Wagner may not win a game this year, so I'm not surprised at all.

I went the NJIT/Sacred Heart scrimmage this past Saturday, and they're much better then 2022-23. They may win 4-5 games this year, but if you drop them in a D3 conference, other than CLC, Liberty, they win the conference. NESCAC would be tough, but Tufts lost too much.

Denison lost its AA goalie, right? How'd the defense look?

Yes. Darrach graduated. D looked good. I think it will be Crowley, Pelegríno, and Holder. Crowley, being the only holdover, should shoulder the lion’s share of the lockdown role.

As far as NJIT, I think if you tossed them into the NEXCAC mix it would help settle a lot of this debate. There are a lot of parallels with NJIT and the NEXCAC. Sooner we all digest that, the better.

I think that’s why a lot of people don’t get what laxdad is saying. There is a big disparity in depth when it comes to these divisions. Tufts might have A line of middies that could hang at NJITs caliber, but go to lines 2-3 and see the drop off.

Completely disagree. Tufts is deep. As has been said a few times, the lower level D1 teams are not at the same level of top D3 teams. Too many real world examples prove this point. The 2nd and third lines for the lower level D1 programs are not nearly as deep. If we were talking about mid level D1, like Towson, I would completely agree. But the gap between a Towson and a Wagner/NJIT is big, really big.
If Tufts and Towson played each other 10 times, I would expect pretty even games. If Tufts or Towson played NJIT 10 times, I don’t think any of the games would be close.

NJIT has only won 8 or 9 games total in the past 9 years and half of those wins were against Hampton. They are not deep. They aren’t beating any of the top 5 teams in the NESCAC. If they jointed the NESCAC, they would decline considerable without the D1 or scholarship draw.

This topic is just an endless circle and until NJIT can win more than 3 games a year, there is nothing that will change. You would be better arguing that St Johns HS could join the NESCAC. I think they might do better than the Hamptons and NJITS would do.

[boredatwork]

A little off topic here, but I have a question about a NESCAC team...

I have been one of the people who for the last 4-5 years kept thinking "this is the year Middlebury makes some noise..." and finally in 2023 I think we could see some significant results for them in that light. I am very worried about the panthers this year due the the losses on the defensive end. They have graduated:

11 Simpson 20 GP 19 GS
22 Kantaros 21 GP 17 GS
46 Dobensky 21 GP 20 GS
50 Muldoon 21 GP 21 GS

3 starting poles and 1 DM. They did play a freshman in goal and the other D Mid spot and 1 sophomore defensively but that is a lot of experience that is graduating. They faced off at 48% and starting goalie saved 49.6% of shots so I am worried that the lack of experience could be a major issue, especially early on. Anyone have any idea who may be stepping up on that end of the field with so many openings?

[RE6ULATOR]

A little off topic here, but I have a question about a NESCAC team...

I have been one of the people who for the last 4-5 years kept thinking "this is the year Middlebury makes some noise..." and finally in 2023 I think we could see some significant results for them in that light. I am very worried about the panthers this year due the the losses on the defensive end. They have graduated:

11 Simpson 20 GP 19 GS
22 Kantaros 21 GP 17 GS
46 Dobensky 21 GP 20 GS
50 Muldoon 21 GP 21 GS

3 starting poles and 1 DM. They did play a freshman in goal and the other D Mid spot and 1 sophomore defensively but that is a lot of experience that is graduating. They faced off at 48% and starting goalie saved 49.6% of shots so I am worried that the lack of experience could be a major issue, especially early on. Anyone have any idea who may be stepping up on that end of the field with so many openings?

You should be worried if you care about lacrosse outside of NESCAC conference play.

But… don’t question the fact that we’ve been hearing about how great they are for years. I did and 3 pages of a full on NESCAC barrage ensued.

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

It’s either questioning any NESCAC team, or their visceral response to all things NJIT...

[lilax]

A little off topic here, but I have a question about a NESCAC team...

I have been one of the people who for the last 4-5 years kept thinking "this is the year Middlebury makes some noise..." and finally in 2023 I think we could see some significant results for them in that light. I am very worried about the panthers this year due the the losses on the defensive end. They have graduated:

11 Simpson 20 GP 19 GS
22 Kantaros 21 GP 17 GS
46 Dobensky 21 GP 20 GS
50 Muldoon 21 GP 21 GS

3 starting poles and 1 DM. They did play a freshman in goal and the other D Mid spot and 1 sophomore defensively but that is a lot of experience that is graduating. They faced off at 48% and starting goalie saved 49.6% of shots so I am worried that the lack of experience could be a major issue, especially early on. Anyone have any idea who may be stepping up on that end of the field with so many openings?

You should be worried if you care about lacrosse outside of NESCAC conference play.

But… don’t question the fact that we’ve been hearing about how great they are for years. I did and 3 pages of a full on NESCAC barrage ensued.

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

It’s either questioning any NESCAC team, or their visceral response to all things NJIT...

How dare you ask a legitimate question!

This is the NESCAC thread, hypothetical debates about Tufts/D3 vs. the MAAC All Star team only.

[RE6ULATOR]

A little off topic here, but I have a question about a NESCAC team...

I have been one of the people who for the last 4-5 years kept thinking "this is the year Middlebury makes some noise..." and finally in 2023 I think we could see some significant results for them in that light. I am very worried about the panthers this year due the the losses on the defensive end. They have graduated:

11 Simpson 20 GP 19 GS
22 Kantaros 21 GP 17 GS
46 Dobensky 21 GP 20 GS
50 Muldoon 21 GP 21 GS

3 starting poles and 1 DM. They did play a freshman in goal and the other D Mid spot and 1 sophomore defensively but that is a lot of experience that is graduating. They faced off at 48% and starting goalie saved 49.6% of shots so I am worried that the lack of experience could be a major issue, especially early on. Anyone have any idea who may be stepping up on that end of the field with so many openings?

You should be worried if you care about lacrosse outside of NESCAC conference play.

But… don’t question the fact that we’ve been hearing about how great they are for years. I did and 3 pages of a full on NESCAC barrage ensued.

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

It’s either questioning any NESCAC team, or their visceral response to all things NJIT...

How dare you ask a legitimate question!

This is the NESCAC thread, hypothetical debates about Tufts/D3 vs. the MAAC All Star team only.

Well, did a deep dive on the Middlebury men’s lacrosse scheduling crisis. These are the games outside of the New England/Upstate NY region that they’ve had (or even scheduled in the cancelled year) since 2019. Union @ Sparks Md 2024, Mustang Classic 2019. That’s it. 2 trips. A little more digging and I found that over the same course of time Middlebury women’s lacrosse has been treated to 9 distant regular season away game trips, spanning NJ, PA and MD.

Is it possible they could be sharing the same lopsided budget?

[TucoBPJMRamirez]

Well, did a deep dive on the Middlebury men’s lacrosse scheduling crisis. These are the games outside of the New England/Upstate NY region that they’ve had (or even scheduled in the cancelled year) since 2019. Union @ Sparks Md 2024, Mustang Classic 2019. That’s it. 2 trips. A little more digging and I found that over the same course of time Middlebury women’s lacrosse has been treated to 9 distant regular season away game trips, spanning NJ, PA and MD.

Is it possible they could be sharing the same lopsided budget?

Middlebury beat Union in Austin, TX in 2023. Some deep dive ...

Maybe there is a funding discrepancy or maybe the men's lacrosse coaches have decided that it's unnecessary to make their players endure 6+ hour bus rides and multiple flights since their schedule is already packed with top 20 opponents and, as someone already said, they'll pull an auto-at-large if they finish in the top 4.

The real question is why you have such a (totally non-gay, totally healthy, totally normal in all ways) hard-on for Dave Campbell.