NESCAC

[DeepPocket]

…with the relative elevation of Eastern and Messiah, and the Commonwealth should stack up rather well when compared to non-NESCAC/Liberty/Centennial conferences going forward.

‘Elevation of Eastern and Messiah”?

Yes. The RELATIVE elevation. As in relative to their past, and relative to the MAC conference. That’s the whole reason I put that word in there. I presume it’s also the reason why you removed it, because it matters and makes it make sense.

York isn't anything like Centennial schools when it comes to academics.
Leagues like the NESCAC & Centennial are set in stone, barring any major changes or break ups within the conference.
A MAC-type league with York - Stevens Tech - Stevenson in the same side would be great for D3.

The Centennial has many EXCELLENT and VERY SELECTIVE schools. That said, York is more selective than Ursinus & McDaniel, so narrow that broad brush a bit. Gettysburg played in the MAC at one point FWIW.

[Laxforeveryone]

…with the relative elevation of Eastern and Messiah, and the Commonwealth should stack up rather well when compared to non-NESCAC/Liberty/Centennial conferences going forward.

‘Elevation of Eastern and Messiah”?

Yes. The RELATIVE elevation. As in relative to their past, and relative to the MAC conference. That’s the whole reason I put that word in there. I presume it’s also the reason why you removed it, because it matters and makes it make sense.

York isn't anything like Centennial schools when it comes to academics.
Leagues like the NESCAC & Centennial are set in stone, barring any major changes or break ups within the conference.
A MAC-type league with York - Stevens Tech - Stevenson in the same side would be great for D3.

The Centennial has many EXCELLENT and VERY SELECTIVE schools. That said, York is more selective than Ursinus & McDaniel, so narrow that broad brush a bit. Gettysburg played in the MAC at one point FWIW.

Just an update from someone current on admissions data, York currently has almost a 100% acceptance rate with lower average SATs and GPAs than McDaniel. Many people don’t realize how often cost and perceived selectivity go hand in hand. McDaniel in contrast to some of their peers has made a concerted effort to increase accessibility to typically disenfranchised groups and in the world of colleges when you keep costs down and offer more aid you are perceived as being “less prestigious”. To the average college “consumer” if it costs more it must be more valuable.

[ReturnOfTheWAC]

…with the relative elevation of Eastern and Messiah, and the Commonwealth should stack up rather well when compared to non-NESCAC/Liberty/Centennial conferences going forward.

‘Elevation of Eastern and Messiah”?

Yes. The RELATIVE elevation. As in relative to their past, and relative to the MAC conference. That’s the whole reason I put that word in there. I presume it’s also the reason why you removed it, because it matters and makes it make sense.

York isn't anything like Centennial schools when it comes to academics.
Leagues like the NESCAC & Centennial are set in stone, barring any major changes or break ups within the conference.
A MAC-type league with York - Stevens Tech - Stevenson in the same side would be great for D3.

The Centennial has many EXCELLENT and VERY SELECTIVE schools. That said, York is more selective than Ursinus & McDaniel, so narrow that broad brush a bit. Gettysburg played in the MAC at one point FWIW.

Just an update from someone current on admissions data, York currently has almost a 100% acceptance rate with lower average SATs and GPAs than McDaniel. Many people don’t realize how often cost and perceived selectivity go hand in hand. McDaniel in contrast to some of their peers has made a concerted effort to increase accessibility to typically disenfranchised groups and in the world of colleges when you keep costs down and offer more aid you are perceived as being “less prestigious”. To the average college “consumer” if it costs more it must be more valuable.

York has lesser academics than the entire Centennial Conference. What keeps them alive is cost and their engineering program which is extremely affordable and attractive

[DeepPocket]

Just an update from someone current on admissions data, York currently has almost a 100% acceptance rate with lower average SATs and GPAs than McDaniel. Many people don’t realize how often cost and perceived selectivity go hand in hand. McDaniel in contrast to some of their peers has made a concerted effort to increase accessibility to typically disenfranchised groups and in the world of colleges when you keep costs down and offer more aid you are perceived as being “less prestigious”. To the average college “consumer” if it costs more it must be more valuable.

I’m going off of published data comprised by college comparison websites. Niche, CollegeSimply and the like. Not sure what actual data source you have, and it would be even cooler if you put it out there.

Per niche.com
York
Acceptance Rate
78%
SAT Range
1010-1220
ACT Range
22-27
HS GPA
3.59

McDaniel
Acceptance Rate
87%
SAT Range
1050-1230
ACT Range
21-27
HS GPA
3.64

Per CollegeSimply
YCP / McDaniel College
Tuition (In State) $20,260 / $46,336
Tuition (Out of State) $20,260 / $46,336
Room & Board. $12,050 / $12,302
Avg Net Price. $22,876 / 23,913.
Median Earnings (After 10 years) $50,700 / $53,400

York has lesser academics than the entire Centennial Conference. What keeps them alive is cost and their engineering program which is extremely affordable and attractive

“Keeps them alive” implies struggle, and betrays their actual level of financial comfort. Better, and certainly more accurately put would be “is their bread and butter,” or “broadens their target student/student athlete”

Forbes financial grades:
York 3.46
McDaniel 3.52

McDaniel academics have a B- on Niche, same as York. Apparently too many people are falling for the “cost equals perceived selectivity.” Because in this case, perception is all it is.

[choochooCharlie]

Per niche.com
York
Acceptance Rate
78%
SAT Range
1010-1220
ACT Range
22-27
HS GPA
3.59

McDaniel
Acceptance Rate
87%
SAT Range
1050-1230
ACT Range
21-27
HS GPA
3.64

McDaniel academics have a B- on Niche, same as York.

Looks like they’re recruiting the same kids, except the ones going to York can play competitive lacrosse. Maybe that’s the reason for York’s more selective acceptance rate.

[SaltCounty]

…with the relative elevation of Eastern and Messiah, and the Commonwealth should stack up rather well when compared to non-NESCAC/Liberty/Centennial conferences going forward.

‘Elevation of Eastern and Messiah”?

Yes. The RELATIVE elevation. As in relative to their past, and relative to the MAC conference. That’s the whole reason I put that word in there. I presume it’s also the reason why you removed it, because it matters and makes it make sense.

York isn't anything like Centennial schools when it comes to academics.
Leagues like the NESCAC & Centennial are set in stone, barring any major changes or break ups within the conference.
A MAC-type league with York - Stevens Tech - Stevenson in the same side would be great for D3.

The Centennial has many EXCELLENT and VERY SELECTIVE schools. That said, York is more selective than Ursinus & McDaniel, so narrow that broad brush a bit. Gettysburg played in the MAC at one point FWIW.

I didn't say anything about Centennial schools that would imply the opposite.
Nor did I say anything about Yorks "Admissions"
"Academics" refers to what school is like, on campus (One example - Class Schedules & Scheduling around Athletics)
Not sure what you were trying to accomplish with the broad brush comment.

[Laxattackjack]

Just an update from someone current on admissions data, York currently has almost a 100% acceptance rate with lower average SATs and GPAs than McDaniel. Many people don’t realize how often cost and perceived selectivity go hand in hand. McDaniel in contrast to some of their peers has made a concerted effort to increase accessibility to typically disenfranchised groups and in the world of colleges when you keep costs down and offer more aid you are perceived as being “less prestigious”. To the average college “consumer” if it costs more it must be more valuable.

I’m going off of published data comprised by college comparison websites. Niche, CollegeSimply and the like. Not sure what actual data source you have, and it would be even cooler if you put it out there.

Per niche.com
York
Acceptance Rate
78%
SAT Range
1010-1220
ACT Range
22-27
HS GPA
3.59

McDaniel
Acceptance Rate
87%
SAT Range
1050-1230
ACT Range
21-27
HS GPA
3.64

Per CollegeSimply
YCP / McDaniel College
Tuition (In State) $20,260 / $46,336
Tuition (Out of State) $20,260 / $46,336
Room & Board. $12,050 / $12,302
Avg Net Price. $22,876 / 23,913.
Median Earnings (After 10 years) $50,700 / $53,400

York has lesser academics than the entire Centennial Conference. What keeps them alive is cost and their engineering program which is extremely affordable and attractive

“Keeps them alive” implies struggle, and betrays their actual level of financial comfort. Better, and certainly more accurately put would be “is their bread and butter,” or “broadens their target student/student athlete”

Forbes financial grades:
York 3.46
McDaniel 3.52

McDaniel academics have a B- on Niche, same as York. Apparently too many people are falling for the “cost equals perceived selectivity.” Because in this case, perception is all it is.

Deep, I think these might be old numbers. I just checked out US news and world college date.

acceptance rates.
York 2016 61%
York 2017 70%
York 2021 96%

To compare that to some other top non NASCAC schools

Salisbury 90%
CNU 88%
Lynchburg 96%

Cabrini won’t be the last small college to close. Schools are struggling to get students, and they are having to reduce acceptance requirements. York had an enrollment of 4500 in 2016. 2021 it was down to 3300

Most colleges are struggling to keep enrollment up, many schools are seeing a decline. It is a combination of things. Cost, political censorship, and mental issues are probably the biggest reason. Schools are going to have to compete, and acceptance rates will drop

Tufts on the other hand, seems to be going in the other direction. They had an undergrad enrollment of 5200 in 2016 and for 2021, it says 6800.
2016 had an acceptance rate of 40%, 2021 is 10%

[nelaxman]

Can we move on from bashing non NESCAC schools on academics from this thread. Let keep it NESCAC only.

[DeepPocket]

Deep, I think these might be old numbers. I just checked out US news and world college date.

acceptance rates.
York 2016 61%
York 2017 70%
York 2021 96%

To compare that to some other top non NASCAC schools

Salisbury 90%
CNU 88%
Lynchburg 96%

Cabrini won’t be the last small college to close. Schools are struggling to get students, and they are having to reduce acceptance requirements. York had an enrollment of 4500 in 2016. 2021 it was down to 3300

Most colleges are struggling to keep enrollment up, many schools are seeing a decline. It is a combination of things. Cost, political censorship, and mental issues are probably the biggest reason. Schools are going to have to compete, and acceptance rates will drop …

The only stat I saw the date of when I pulled them up was the Forbes financial grades, and that is from 2023.
Forbes financial grades:
York 3.46
McDaniel 3.52

So while the acceptance and enrollment #s could very well be as you say, they appear to be in a good financial position as of 2023.

[Laxxal22]

Tufts on the other hand, seems to be going in the other direction. They had an undergrad enrollment of 5200 in 2016 and for 2021, it says 6800.
2016 had an acceptance rate of 40%, 2021 is 10%

In the spirit of "How many Duke players..."

If it's announced this week that Tufts is joining the Patriot League beginning the 2025/26 academic year, where do you think they are by 2030 when they'd first be eligible for postseason play?

In my opinion they'd get on track pretty fast. The majority of current players/commits cool with moving to a D1 athlete's lifestyle could still contribute, so there wouldn't be the need to reset the program's identity with 30 freshmen + transfers. And the school's draws give it a higher ceiling than most of the D2/D3 teams that have moved up, which would put them in play for pretty high level recruits by year 2-3 of the transition as postseason play would be possible for at least half of their careers.

It might be aggressive, but I think they'd be PL tournament-worthy by the first year of eligibility and pretty quickly move into the BU, Villanova, Richmond tier of teams. To me this highlights how unique Tufts is within the NESCAC, as I think every other team in the league would be a poor man's Hobart at best if they transitioned. The strength of those schools is in being a strong alternative to D1—Tufts actually has the bones to grow into a D1 program.

[laxdad1434]

Tufts on the other hand, seems to be going in the other direction. They had an undergrad enrollment of 5200 in 2016 and for 2021, it says 6800.
2016 had an acceptance rate of 40%, 2021 is 10%

In the spirit of "How many Duke players..."

If it's announced this week that Tufts is joining the Patriot League beginning the 2025/26 academic year, where do you think they are by 2030 when they'd first be eligible for postseason play?

In my opinion they'd get on track pretty fast. The majority of current players/commits cool with moving to a D1 athlete's lifestyle could still contribute, so there wouldn't be the need to reset the program's identity with 30 freshmen + transfers. And the school's draws give it a higher ceiling than most of the D2/D3 teams that have moved up, which would put them in play for pretty high level recruits by year 2-3 of the transition as postseason play would be possible for at least half of their careers.

It might be aggressive, but I think they'd be PL tournament-worthy by the first year of eligibility and pretty quickly move into the BU, Villanova, Richmond tier of teams. To me this highlights how unique Tufts is within the NESCAC, as I think every other team in the league would be a poor man's Hobart at best if they transitioned. The strength of those schools is in being a strong alternative to D1—Tufts actually has the bones to grow into a D1 program.

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

[SaltCounty]

Tufts on the other hand, seems to be going in the other direction. They had an undergrad enrollment of 5200 in 2016 and for 2021, it says 6800.
2016 had an acceptance rate of 40%, 2021 is 10%

In the spirit of "How many Duke players..."

If it's announced this week that Tufts is joining the Patriot League beginning the 2025/26 academic year, where do you think they are by 2030 when they'd first be eligible for postseason play?

In my opinion they'd get on track pretty fast. The majority of current players/commits cool with moving to a D1 athlete's lifestyle could still contribute, so there wouldn't be the need to reset the program's identity with 30 freshmen + transfers. And the school's draws give it a higher ceiling than most of the D2/D3 teams that have moved up, which would put them in play for pretty high level recruits by year 2-3 of the transition as postseason play would be possible for at least half of their careers.

It might be aggressive, but I think they'd be PL tournament-worthy by the first year of eligibility and pretty quickly move into the BU, Villanova, Richmond tier of teams. To me this highlights how unique Tufts is within the NESCAC, as I think every other team in the league would be a poor man's Hobart at best if they transitioned. The strength of those schools is in being a strong alternative to D1—Tufts actually has the bones to grow into a D1 program.

They would impose their will on the bottom half of the league.
Then a league-leading version of a West Point, Loyola, BU team would have their way.
But in the hunt during regular season and PL Tournament for sure.

What do you think plays more of a factor in the transition - the level of players, or the level of coaching staff?

[Dadof3]

Very good exercise. Tufts up to 6800. 3x most of the Nescac. Tons more resources. I think if they went to the Patriot today they’re most likely 6th (ahead of Laf; Buck;Colt; HC) and with 2-3 yrs of recruiting they’re in the hunt for the top. Plenty big of an institution with plenty of $$; great location; great academics. I think the biggest difference in top tier D3 vs 10-30 ranked D1 is just depth. In high level D1 your 3rd and 4th liners may have been hS AA. Top D3 has the high end starters but just not the same depth. But with a few years of recruiting as a D1 I’d think Tufts would be right there

[Can Opener]

Interesting data point yesterday as Denison led Cleveland State 12-8 after the first three quarters of their scrimmage. Both teams substituted liberally in Q4 and CSU eked out a one-goal win. Cleveland State finished last season ranked #54 in RPI, just behind Lafayette and ahead of Bucknell, Colgate and Holy Cross. If Denison can do that, there is little doubt Tufts would be in the mix for a PL playoff spot immediately. On a related note, York manhandled D1 Wagner yesterday.

[Pitt12]

Interesting data point yesterday as Denison led Cleveland State 12-8 after the first three quarters of their scrimmage. Both teams substituted liberally in Q4 and CSU eked out a one-goal win. Cleveland State finished last season ranked #54 in RPI, just behind Lafayette and ahead of Bucknell, Colgate and Holy Cross. If Denison can do that, there is little doubt Tufts would be in the mix for a PL playoff spot immediately. On a related note, York manhandled D1 Wagner yesterday.

It’s a scrimmage?????

[Dadof3]

Yes “It’s a scrimmage”. But teams playing to win for at least 3q. I watched 2 top 25 D1 scrimmmage yesterday and they had their starters in for 3q. Many D1’s play for real in 6 days so these are not Fall scrimmages. Denison being right there or better than the possible #54 D1 is no shock to anyone who knows college lax.

[Pitt12]

Got it.

[TucoBPJMRamirez]

Denison being right there or better than the possible #54 D1 is no shock to anyone who knows college lax.

But have you watched NJIT play Vermont?!?!

[lax1983]

Interesting data point yesterday as Denison led Cleveland State 12-8 after the first three quarters of their scrimmage. Both teams substituted liberally in Q4 and CSU eked out a one-goal win. Cleveland State finished last season ranked #54 in RPI, just behind Lafayette and ahead of Bucknell, Colgate and Holy Cross. If Denison can do that, there is little doubt Tufts would be in the mix for a PL playoff spot immediately. On a related note, York manhandled D1 Wagner yesterday.

But they also lost to d2 mercyhurst ;]

[smoova]

Interesting data point yesterday as Denison led Cleveland State 12-8 after the first three quarters of their scrimmage. Both teams substituted liberally in Q4 and CSU eked out a one-goal win. Cleveland State finished last season ranked #54 in RPI, just behind Lafayette and ahead of Bucknell, Colgate and Holy Cross. If Denison can do that, there is little doubt Tufts would be in the mix for a PL playoff spot immediately. On a related note, York manhandled D1 Wagner yesterday.

But they also lost to d2 mercyhurst ;]

#12 DIII school leading through 2-3 quarters, but "losing" tight scrimmages to the #54 DI and the #2 DII seems about right.