D1 Men NCAA Tournament

[Farfromgeneva]

If JHU had once again been crushed by a powerful PSU then Id be criticizing their selection. They weren't, they are a very good team right now , they rightfully belong in tourney.

If anyone wants to know what a "good loss" is------- that's what stupefied is selling here. He thinks JHU should get points for losing.

Among the problems with this line of thinking, obviously, is that he forgot to give Cornell the same credit for losing to Yale. Or losing by a goal to Penn earlier in the year.

Quite the opposite if you have read the gist of my posts . Clearly expressed that teams should not gain benefit from losses to ranked teams that are not competitive n that rpi calculations are faulty as calculated given lack of proper weightings especially as it related to losses to ranked teams. Go back to page 4 of this thread and scroll down to my opinion on matter including some comments on Cornell

This is the crux of the issue and why I have such a problem with Div. I mens lacrosse (completely ignore "top" football )

Is it mathmatically even possible for certain teams to EVAH get a high RPI?

High Points rpi didn't really suffer because they lost to St. Johns and Jacksonville. Remember, 75% of the formula is other teams records, so how much of a boon to their rpi would winning have made to the first part of the formula? (.20 vs .23/actual vs 15=1 record) ) Is the .03 even enough to matter? In other words, if High Point won every other game and still lost to Richmond, it's RPI wouldn't matter either. Just the way the laxmafia world likes it. You can beat us.....but you will never BE one of us........something to that affect.

Wood the tournament REALLY suffer if Hobart and High Point replaced Notre Dame and Hopkins, based on WINNING. (In big boy REAL world, Blue Jackets don't get credit for 4 good loses.....they get a TEE time today )

crazy town indeed.

Don’t use us up in geneva. I am proud of Hobarts season and think you’ll be taking about them more next year but our schedule was watered down this year such that we had to at least split w Cornell/Cuse and lose no more than two more games to have any at large shot.

[Mr3Putt]

Can we move on? Appreciate Cornell, Rutgers, HP etc. Can ROMO compete w Va? Last year going in I felt like they could win @ MD. Don’t know about this year. Obviously, a different team .

[Farfromgeneva]

Compete yes but I suspect it gets away in the second half. Never isn’t nearly on the level of last year. That’s the biggest difference. They lost a key pole to graduation last year.

[Homer]

IL has someone who follows the bracketing closely. There are committee members, the NCAA and the press. I don’t believe there is any bias and I think the burden of proof lies with anyone making the allegation.

A fair number of us follow this closely. Read these threads in the days leading up to selection, and you'll find a bunch of people with no clue -- no shame in that, given the general opacity of the process -- but also at least a dozen posters with a really good grasp of each team's relevant numbers and a solid intuitive sense of the committee's historical behavior. And we mostly spend that time berating each other over how differently we all see the bracket playing out.

If you've got a situation where interested amateurs can't figure out the formula, but there's one professional journalist who knows, then that certainly doesn't sound like transparency. Maybe it's like the situation with the NFL's comp picks, where it's technically a trade secret but one guy did yeoman's work over a period of years backing out what the formula has to be. Or else IL's guy who's following the bracketing closely is getting information the rest of us aren't.

[Hawkeye]

A fair number of us follow this closely. Read these threads in the days leading up to selection, and you'll find a bunch of people with no clue -- no shame in that, given the general opacity of the process -- but also at least a dozen posters with a really good grasp of each team's relevant numbers and a solid intuitive sense of the committee's historical behavior. And we mostly spend that time berating each other over how differently we all see the bracket playing out.

Truth.

I think the committee is pretty consistent/predictable, contrary to what some people say... but the question of whether the metrics are "fair" or emphasizing/incentivizing the right things is another matter entirely.

[OCanada]

Hawkeye, A fair point and one I agree with in general. RPI was a big step forward but it is limited given the small member of teams in the field.

I did not say there was only one person who understood it. The IL guy pretty much nailed it before the Committee metthey have a few guys. Dixon and Q understand it. There are others.

But actually doing anything? My point all along has been there is no Hopkins conspiracy. That’s it.

I am content with whatever formula the Committee and the Coaches want to use. I have no interest in the debate here. A few who are trying to make me participate are wasting their time.

[Farfromgeneva]

Doesn’t the arrogance and entitlement expressed on these forums by a large contingent of Hop fans along with the fact that the AL process is a bunch of data points wrapped around a committee analysis which floats around in what it weighs from year to year? Sometimes/often in the real world perception is realty so I don’t see how geting uptight, defensive or antagonistic in defense is useful at all. I mean you’ve got a guy crying about an I dependent, for profit entity unrelated to Hopkins in any way explicitly or implicitly (right?) because they made an editorial mistake and screwed up a name. You know how many names of other teams have been screwed up this year alone? You know how many editorial errors I’ve found in the wapo, NYT and ESPN this calendar year?

So maybe specific to one or another individual the idea of a conspiracy is unfair but from what I’ve seen going back to the mid 2000s in LP I think this attitude or perception has been greatly advance by the same Hopkins cohort.

Sort of like wanting to be a major sport on par with the big four but expecting Hop to remain relevant. Most will argue because of the research institute commonality but if the ACC and BigTen big picked up organic natural lacrosse members I would be surprised if within two years,or at least next time Hop takes an AQ from Minnesota or NW, watch how fast their standing around wondering if they should join the CAA or PL.

[Homer]

I mean you’ve got a guy crying about an I dependent, for profit entity unrelated to Hopkins in any way explicitly or implicitly (right?) because they made an editorial mistake and screwed up a name. You know how many names of other teams have been screwed up this year alone? You know how many editorial errors I’ve found in the wapo, NYT and ESPN this calendar year?

It was a little over the top*, but I think his point was just that IL's monopoly position has led them to get lazy, not that it mattered because it was Hopkins specifically. Of course anybody's more likely to notice this stuff when it's their own team. I agree that this type of thing is a problem across a lot of outlets nowadays -- the move to digital platforms has changed incentives in a way that's not good for basic reporting, IMO.


* Also the name IL came up with happened to be very similar to that of a kid who tragically passed away 4 years ago. Cut him some slack if he reacted emotionally to that.

[Farfromgeneva]

I guess. I mean I don’t see anyone else acting like that and I assure you there’s probably fans of at least 20 programs who could make the same mistake.

But you can see my point on perception and behavior contributing to this. The Hop posting cohort, which represent a large majority of many posters experience with Hopkins constituents, bears some of the burden for this perception and that’s where it feels obtuse for their fans, not all, to be so defense and angry about it.

[Hawkeye]

I guess. I mean I don’t see anyone else acting like that and I assure you there’s probably fans of at least 20 programs who could make the same mistake

Yeah we clearly shouldn’t have journalistic standards anymore. I would say more, but I’d get into politics and that’s a no no.

That you say other outlets make similar mistakes - that’s not a defense. My high school newspaper wouldn’t make a mistake like that, because someone was actually proofreading the articles.

[johnnyonthegunpowder]

I have to laugh at IL being considered a "monopoly", though I completely understand why one would describe them that way and there probably isn't a better word. I just imagine, like every other journalism outlet, that they're hanging on for dear life? I'm the last person who would defend IL, but I would guess they are incredibly understaffed. LSN does great work. Have you seen the media the PLL puts out? My lord, it makes Inside Lacrosse look like Walter Cronkite. Not gonna lie, that stuff makes me a love the Jays a little less. Frankly, The Sun should've isolated this market a loooong time ago.

[Farfromgeneva]

Right on so go find that post and tell me it’s reasonable and proportionate. This isn’t moral relativism but it is relevant to point out that’s common amongst the general cohort as as been perceived for 15yrs, not including everyone but enough to create a perception to the rest.

And everyone knows IL and all lacrosse media is a fragmented joke. To even call it journalism is laughable, ya know brah, I mean look at the integrity in the analysis of all that dope Schwag and gear they cover ya heard. (Hopefully me noting this is deeply tongue in cheek is redundant or else, good lord)

So when a rag with clowns that doesn’t even pretend to be agnostic is treated like historical and currently significant purveyors and distributors of true information (with exceptions, esp the NYT) in the reaction to an editorial error it’s reasonable to point out in description of my argument. And yeah it’s part of that lacrosse should be more relevant broadly but dominated by a joke periodical it looks similar to what this double stndard hypocrisy that the Hop folks, in general, have demonstrated.

So the folks that don’t behave like this will be upset and
I wouldn’t include Hawkeye in what I’m talking about, in fact I’m pleading to the more grounded ones to consider that some of this external agitation/distrust of the system is perpetuated by some of your own folks. Picking at some little point about journalism standards doesn’t in any way address my question or thesis. While we all are only responsibilities for ourselves, if we are part of a group or community then it’s some bit of a responsibility of all to maintain the integrity of the perception of the group.

Edit: I see Hawkeye ran to find shelter in the Hop
Forum where I either come into and get accused of being some interloper or they get to act like their right in their own little world. Ok, but then get off all the other forums crying and protesting other people’s reactions and feelings about Hop. I’ve lived in a atlanta nearly a decade after 5yrs each in NYC and Dc and this is the same behavior demonstrated by goofy Mercer grads who sweat UGA and then along with all other schools in conference take credit for the success of Alabama.

[Hawkeye]

So when a rag with clowns that doesn’t even pretend to be agnostic is treated like historical and currently significant purveyors and distributors of true information (with exceptions, esp the NYT) in the reaction to an editorial error it’s reasonable to point out in description of my argument. And yeah it’s part of that lacrosse should be more relevant broadly but dominated by a joke periodical it looks similar to what this double stndard hypocrisy that the Hop folks, in general, have demonstrated.

Okay, we agree here. IL has some absolute clowns.

My point is this, IL presents themselves as "the source of the sport," shouldn't they be held to that standard? That's me speaking as a lacrosse fan, not as a Hopkins fan. If IL had made a similar mistake about Cornell (I know they also have had a player pass away while in school, that's why I use them as an example), I would think that Cornell fans/players/parents/etc. should be upset. I am upset that THE SOURCE OF THE SPORT is making mistakes like this. The entire operation looks amateur-ish. In some ways, it reflects on the sport as a whole.

If IL presented themselves as "fans covering the sport" (see college crosse for an example), and made a mistake, I could swallow that. But that isn't what this is. IL holds themselves above reproach and as important.

I don't think this issue is Hopkins specific. No fan should excuse this coverage from IL, ESPN, any "official" outlet. I feel like all lacrosse fans should be upset about a mistake like what they made. This sport deserves better.

[Hawkeye]

Edit: I see Hawkeye ran to find shelter in the Hop

So you'd rather throw HopFan under the bus in a completely unrelated thread and not give him a chance to respond to that? That's pretty cool... gotta say it. I'm not looking for shelter anywhere. I think you should have said what you said in this thread directly to him -- since it was pretty proximate to him after all.

I’ve lived in a atlanta nearly a decade after 5yrs each in NYC and Dc and this is the same behavior demonstrated by goofy Mercer grads who sweat UGA and then along with all other schools in conference take credit for the success of Alabama.

I don't live in Atlanta. I would not claim the place and quite honestly hated the city the entire time I happened to be there for school... I have not been a student at Mercer... or UGA... or Alabama... Certainly, I could tell you what I think about each of those places! But, that's not really relevant to this conversation in the first place... I'm thinking I shouldn't address it any further. (Asking rhetorically: have I said anything at all about Hobart in this thread? Why even bring this up?)

Bottom line: IL should either back up what they claim to be, or stop claiming to be that. Period. That is all I'm saying. Hopkins doesn't deserve special treatment, but IL shouldn't be given a free pass for egregious mistakes.

[Farfromgeneva]

I’m talking about proportionality of response. It smells of obliviousness or insular thinking. And a. How would said person feel about you speaking for them?, b. Are they not active even on this string?, if the answer is you feel comfortable speaking for another from your group then wouldn’t that extend to moderating or at least discussing the behavior that others would take as a Hop cohort culture as well?

No ones touching my points which I used one simple, extreme and easy example to point to that perhaps some he outside feelings, thoughts and beliefs are in any way earned by his same group? I think every Hop fan knows and likes the but doesn’t even want the double standard but doesn’t even want to address it for fear it is fully in the table.

Want the IP/intangible and franchise value of a nifty fifty company in a more advanced and progressed world. Even the survivors like IBM wrote off all their old intangible assets value long ago and create new ones almost completely unrelated to its old business. Or like walMart getting a website in 1999 and wanting an internet multiple

[Hawkeye]

double standard

Yes, we agree. I think we can leave it here. The Hopkins lacrosse team could cure cancer and some people would complain about that.

No school/team/program is perfect. No school/team/program is pure evil. Nothing is that black and white.

[The Orfling]

Picks!

• Syracuse over Loyola by 2

• Yale over Georgetown by 2

• Army over Penn by 1

• UVA over RoMo by 5

• Penn State over UMBC by 5

• Maryland over Towson by 1

• Duke over Richmond by 2

• ND over Hop by 1

[Farfromgeneva]

double standard

Yes, we agree. I think we can leave it here. The Hopkins lacrosse team could cure cancer and some people would complain about that.

No school/team/program is perfect. No school/team/program is pure evil. Nothing is that black and white.

.

And we’re t a point of some resolution d with some disagreement. Little surprise you weren’t understanding g my various metaphors, especially when the SEC one is so close to some of the attitudes of big ten fans claiming their own success through someone else’s.

I don’t care if people want to hang on to a double standard that benefits them, just think the outrage and angst towards everyone else is at best kabuki theatre and at worst plain dumb. Be honest, if I have an unfair advantage I’m not apologizing, arguing or attempt silly heuristics to continue to further the dishonesty. Own it, leverage it and tell everyone else “sorry, so it goes.” But doing it this way sort of earns the outside perspective people have.

[Hawkeye]

Little surprise you weren’t understanding g my various metaphors

Please keep this up.

If you really want to turn this into an "I am very smart" contest, I might be willing to play along with you if you keep poking. I've tried really darned hard to let you have it your way as it is.

[Farfromgeneva]

Little surprise you weren’t understanding g my various metaphors

Please keep this up.

If you really want to turn this into an "I am very smart" contest, I might be willing to play along with you if you keep poking. I've tried really darned hard to let you have it your way as it is.

I’m talking about broad subject and group using they and being careful to continuously point out ya not everyone and you’re making this personal. It’s you who have the problem. I’m not smart, I went to a school you all look down on and then a barely cracking top 50 Bschool.

Trying to not be whiny baby and have an adult conversation for that. If I gave you too much credit for your intellect, and more importantly emotional maturity then I accept that I made that mistake.

But if you think I’m afraid of you when I just walked away from a car accident that cut the front of my car in Alf three days then I really overestimated you.