NESCAC

[ChopMan23]

Ranking 4 Nescac teams in the top 15 gotta be pretty aggressive. Salisbury exposed Tufts last year showing the fraudulent Nescac style of play. All offense and zero defense. Would have for those New England boys to have to travel down south and play some real defenses. Don't think we will see any nescac team hoisting hardware come Memorial Day weekend

Tufts beat Salisbury the year before, fyi.

Is this english?: "Would have for those New England boys to have to travel down south ..."

And they dismantled Lynchburg twice, and cabrini, and york.

[Can Opener]

Bowdoin returns a loaded roster....I think they end up right in the mix with Tufts...

I understand Bowdoin returns a lot from their roster last year, but they were a 5 loss team whose best win was against a mediocre Wesleyan team. They have the pieces but will have to see some better wins before I can say they end up in the mix with tufts.

We won’t know til we know how readily Tufts is able to re-load. Certainly didn’t have a drop off after Bredahl. Bowdoin will go as far as their defense allows. And that could easily be a NCAA final 4, with their elite offense and fogo. Ex-losses to Tufts, Midd was flawless last year (exact same as Bowdoin in 2022 btw) and while capable of doing so, it is super hard to repeat that level again. The surprise team will definitely be Trinity. Nescac semis for sure and might even sneak into finals with an upset. No feel for Amherst but feels like they will disappoint this year after a pretty sweet run last season.

Interesting take on Trinity. They will have three D1 transfers on the roster this spring as well as a talented player coming from another NESCAC. Many of us may not love the new world of the transfer portal, but credit to Trinity for seizing the opportunity.

[NNELax]

Bowdoin returns a loaded roster....I think they end up right in the mix with Tufts...

I understand Bowdoin returns a lot from their roster last year, but they were a 5 loss team whose best win was against a mediocre Wesleyan team. They have the pieces but will have to see some better wins before I can say they end up in the mix with tufts.

We won’t know til we know how readily Tufts is able to re-load. Certainly didn’t have a drop off after Bredahl. Bowdoin will go as far as their defense allows. And that could easily be a NCAA final 4, with their elite offense and fogo. Ex-losses to Tufts, Midd was flawless last year (exact same as Bowdoin in 2022 btw) and while capable of doing so, it is super hard to repeat that level again. The surprise team will definitely be Trinity. Nescac semis for sure and might even sneak into finals with an upset. No feel for Amherst but feels like they will disappoint this year after a pretty sweet run last season.

How much did Tarnow pay you to post this???....c'mon man

[smoova]

Interesting take on Trinity. They will have three D1 transfers on the roster this spring as well as a talented player coming from another NESCAC. Many of us may not love the new world of the transfer portal, but credit to Trinity for seizing the opportunity.

I think it's great that Trinity is using every available lever to build a competitive program. The NESCAC, as a conference, seems reluctant to let athletics drive the bus or at least appear to be driving the bus - see, e.g., the way it handles football. It will be interesting to watch how the conference reacts to expanded use of the portal by a few schools ... particularly if those programs rapidly climb to the top of the conference standings.

[RE6ULATOR]

…Bowdoin will go as far as their defense allows. And that could easily be a NCAA final 4…

Easily?

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/league/DIII/polls

Dan Kaplan and team have four NESCAC teams in the top 20:

2nd - Tufts
6th – Bowdoin
8th – Middlebury
13th – Amherst

I will continue to wait for the roster to re-do my rankings.

No beef with Tufts, Midd or Amherst, but surprised to see Bowdoin at 6 ... which is ~12 spots higher than they finished 2023 (bounced from the first round of the NESCAC tournament by Amherst) and they are rolling out an offensive coordinator who has never coached a day of college lacrosse.

Feel the same - shouldn't have them ahead of Midd
They are top 15 - there is room to have them ahead of Amherst due to graduation.

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

[HighBouncersGo]

Ranking 4 Nescac teams in the top 15 gotta be pretty aggressive. Salisbury exposed Tufts last year showing the fraudulent Nescac style of play. All offense and zero defense. Would have for those New England boys to have to travel down south and play some real defenses. Don't think we will see any nescac team hoisting hardware come Memorial Day weekend

This take is almost as cold as Colby winters. Southern teams have been backpacked by Salisbury and CNU's succcess as of recent. There is a decent bit of regular season exposure to see this. Wes plays Roanoke, Amherst & Hamilton play Lynchburg, Tufts & Williams play CNU. I think we will see how fraudulent in general southern teams are. Besides CNU v Will, I see the 'cac sweeping the floor.

[shorelax12]

Interesting take on Trinity. They will have three D1 transfers on the roster this spring as well as a talented player coming from another NESCAC. Many of us may not love the new world of the transfer portal, but credit to Trinity for seizing the opportunity.

I think it's great that Trinity is using every available lever to build a competitive program. The NESCAC, as a conference, seems reluctant to let athletics drive the bus or at least appear to be driving the bus - see, e.g., the way it handles football. It will be interesting to watch how the conference reacts to expanded use of the portal by a few schools ... particularly if those programs rapidly climb to the top of the conference standings.

Agreed, it is always a delicate balancing act in the NESCAC, but I think that the conference has remained somewhat consistent considering the advantages Tufts has in comparison to its conference peers. Putting aside athletics, you also need to consider the difficulty of transferring into a NESCAC as they generally do not take in a lot of transfers. Trinity will certainly be an interesting test case in this regard, but it seems a bit premature to make an assessment about Trinity based upon the transfers. While the NESCAC transfer is an unknown quantity at this point, what type of success did the D1 transfers have at the D1 level, and without trying to revive a low level D1 vs. NESACAC debate, curious where the D1 transfers came from.

[smoova]

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

I know you're not a Midd fan, but no one is campaigning for them to be in the top 4 and it's silly to assert that close wins or (even a loss) against "lesser" opponents suddenly disqualifies a team from being in the top 10. Whatever you do, don't look at RIT's 2023 schedule (SJF, Union, Muhlenburg), or Tufts' (Conn), or Salisbury's (Gettysburg ) ...

[Lacrossedad99]

Shaping up to be a tough year in New London, CT this year. Gonna get 25+ put up on them game 1 against Tufts and look for the Mules to upset them game 2 with Bernhardt at the helm. I think it will be a battle between them and Bates for the worst spot in the 'Cac. Anyone got lines on the opening slate of games?

Such a brutal take, this guy definitely a Williams parent whos still pissed off about the Camels upsetting the Ephs early on last season.

[Lacrossedad99]

Rain & Vent were fantastic. But returning 15 of your top 17 contributors does not make you say ‘rebuild’. Would love to hear any insights of why Conn will take a step back besides your ‘feeling’.

Dadof3 if I may- They return scoring but leadership issues emerge after the graduating of alpha's Rain & Vent. There is no doubt the fellas in Conn could face off the field issues with dining service unionization emerging on campus (see article from the collegevoice below).

Not to mention, Colby's Harold Alfond Athletics and Recreation Center has been huge in ensuring physical development of student-athletes. It will only be harder for low athletic budget schools like Conn to compete with other powerhouses like the Mules.



article: https://thecollegevoice.org/2023/12/14/ ... onization/

Oh yeah I’m sure that these 20 year old college guys will be really broken up about dining hall unionization. Has absolutely zero percent to do with lacrosse. You’re just reaching now.

[Lacrossedad99]

Rain & Vent were fantastic. But returning 15 of your top 17 contributors does not make you say ‘rebuild’. Would love to hear any insights of why Conn will take a step back besides your ‘feeling’.

Dadof3 if I may- They return scoring but leadership issues emerge after the graduating of alpha's Rain & Vent. There is no doubt the fellas in Conn could face off the field issues with dining service unionization emerging on campus (see article from the collegevoice below).

Not to mention, Colby's Harold Alfond Athletics and Recreation Center has been huge in ensuring physical development of student-athletes. It will only be harder for low athletic budget schools like Conn to compete with other powerhouses like the Mules.



article: https://thecollegevoice.org/2023/12/14/ ... onization/

Oh yeah I’m sure that these 20 year old college guys will be really broken up about dining hall unionization. Has absolutely zero percent to do with lacrosse. You’re just reaching now.

“Powerhouses like the mules”? What was the score the past two years Conn and Colby faced off? Just wondering. You’re really doing backflips on it for Berndhart huh.

[RE6ULATOR]

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

I know you're not a Midd fan, but no one is campaigning for them to be in the top 4 and it's silly to assert that close wins or (even a loss) against "lesser" opponents suddenly disqualifies a team from being in the top 10. Whatever you do, don't look at RIT's 2023 schedule (SJF, Union, Muhlenburg), or Tufts' (Conn), or Salisbury's (Gettysburg ) ...

I know that’s a shot at my squad, but what’s really silly is thinking all “lesser opponents” are created equal. A top 10 Gettysburg beating #1 or #2 Salisbury while a technical upset, isn’t the same as unranked vs ranked. (Similar to RIT vs Union) You must agree. Ain’t that the whole “NESCAC” deal anyways? Transitive properties and close games determining strength. Bowdoin plays no one OOC, but gets ranked because they played *insert NESCAC school* close, Williams similarly often gets ranked because they split games with *insert NESCAC school* and so on and so forth.

[Buckethead]

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

I know you're not a Midd fan, but no one is campaigning for them to be in the top 4 and it's silly to assert that close wins or (even a loss) against "lesser" opponents suddenly disqualifies a team from being in the top 10. Whatever you do, don't look at RIT's 2023 schedule (SJF, Union, Muhlenburg), or Tufts' (Conn), or Salisbury's (Gettysburg ) ...

I know that’s a shot at my squad, but what’s really silly is thinking all “lesser opponents” are created equal. A top 10 Gettysburg beating #1 or #2 Salisbury while a technical upset, isn’t the same as unranked vs ranked. (Similar to RIT vs Union) You must agree. Ain’t that the whole “NESCAC” deal anyways? Transitive properties and close games determining strength. Bowdoin plays no one OOC, but gets ranked because they played *insert NESCAC school* close, Williams is similarly ranked because they split games with *insert NESCAC school* and so on and so forth.

And Gettysburg couldn't beat Swarthmore and Swarthmore couldn't beat Vassar and so on and so forth.

[RE6ULATOR]

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

I know you're not a Midd fan, but no one is campaigning for them to be in the top 4 and it's silly to assert that close wins or (even a loss) against "lesser" opponents suddenly disqualifies a team from being in the top 10. Whatever you do, don't look at RIT's 2023 schedule (SJF, Union, Muhlenburg), or Tufts' (Conn), or Salisbury's (Gettysburg ) ...

I know that’s a shot at my squad, but what’s really silly is thinking all “lesser opponents” are created equal. A top 10 Gettysburg beating #1 or #2 Salisbury while a technical upset, isn’t the same as unranked vs ranked. (Similar to RIT vs Union) You must agree. Ain’t that the whole “NESCAC” deal anyways? Transitive properties and close games determining strength. Bowdoin plays no one OOC, but gets ranked because they played *insert NESCAC school* close, Williams is similarly ranked because they split games with *insert NESCAC school* and so on and so forth.

And Gettysburg couldn't beat Swarthmore and Swarthmore couldn't beat Vassar and so on and so forth.

[RE6ULATOR]

Even still, show me Brennan O’Neill and Dyson Williams on a Bates roster and I’ll show you the NESCAC champions.

[smoova]

Been hearing the same old Middlebury schtick for years. We get it they play in the NESCAC, but a 16-6 Loss vs RIT, 10-9 win over SMCM and Hamilton taking them to double OT just ain’t jiving.

I know you're not a Midd fan, but no one is campaigning for them to be in the top 4 and it's silly to assert that close wins or (even a loss) against "lesser" opponents suddenly disqualifies a team from being in the top 10. Whatever you do, don't look at RIT's 2023 schedule (SJF, Union, Muhlenburg), or Tufts' (Conn), or Salisbury's (Gettysburg ) ...

I know that’s a shot at my squad, but what’s really silly is thinking all “lesser opponents” are created equal. A top 10 Gettysburg beating #1 or #2 Salisbury while a technical upset, isn’t the same as unranked vs ranked. (Similar to RIT vs Union) You must agree. Ain’t that the whole “NESCAC” deal anyways? Transitive properties and close games determining strength. Bowdoin plays no one OOC, but gets ranked because they played *insert NESCAC school* close, Williams similarly often gets ranked because they split games with *insert NESCAC school* and so on and so forth.

Don't know who you support, just that you regularly swing by the NESCAC thread to give the pot a healthy stirring (which is a good thing). I agree that most good teams have close wins on their resume that probably "should" have been blowouts, but I don't think those wins justify dismissing the team as "schtick."

I also agree that it's inconvenient to have so many of the top 40 DIII programs within a single conference, buuuuut Bowdoin did miss a 2023 at-large bid because of a weak OOC schedule and an early NESCAC exit. (I've already posted up-thread that I was surprised by Bowdoin's high preseason ranking.) Williams got bounced from the NCAAs by Babson and ... Babson is ranked in the preseason poll while Williams is outside looking in. That seems to be about right.

[Chipzhoo]

[/quote]

Don't know who you support, just that you regularly swing by the NESCAC thread to give the pot a healthy stirring (which is a good thing). I agree that most good teams have close wins on their resume that probably "should" have been blowouts, but I don't think those wins justify dismissing the team as "schtick."

I also agree that it's inconvenient to have so many of the top 40 DIII programs within a single conference, buuuuut Bowdoin did miss a 2023 at-large bid because of a weak OOC schedule and an early NESCAC exit. (I've already posted up-thread that I was surprised by Bowdoin's high preseason ranking.) Williams got bounced from the NCAAs by Babson and ... Babson is ranked in the preseason poll while Williams is outside looking in. That seems to be about right.
[/quote]

Midd's OOC (like usual) includes 4 teams ranked in the preseason Top 20 (RPI, Babson, Union and St. Lawrence). They beat those same teams last year.

[laxdad1434]

Even still, show me Brennan O’Neill and Dyson Williams on a Bates roster and I’ll show you the NESCAC champions.

[smoova]

Midd's OOC (like usual) includes 4 teams ranked in the preseason Top 20 (RPI, Babson, Union and St. Lawrence). They beat those same teams last year.

But, but, but ... they only beat RPI on a wild, last-minute, man-down goal by TC, they were down by 5 (FIVE!!) to Babson after 15 minutes and only beat SLU because Kern stood on his head in the 4th, SLU left Ryan astoundingly uncovered in front of the cage for the last two Midd goals and SLU inexplicably subbed on a 7th offensive player while in possession with 30 seconds left.

Of course, I'm kidding - good teams with strong OOC schedules are going to have some unexpectedly close wins and even a loss or three ... but folks love trolling NESCAC fans.

[RE6ULATOR]

…I don't think those wins justify dismissing the team as "schtick."

Alls I know is usually a lot of work is put into constructing a schedule by coaching staffs. Midd plays the same handful of teams year in and and year out. (Between the lazy scheduling and the late start, I’d like to know what the heck is going on in the offices up there). And so those underwhelming wins, while still wins, IMO are just that- underwhelming.

I also agree that it's inconvenient to have so many of the top 40 DIII programs within a single conference, buuuuut Bowdoin did miss a 2023 at-large bid because of a weak OOC schedule and an early NESCAC exit. (I've already posted up-thread that I was surprised by Bowdoin's high preseason ranking.) Williams got bounced from the NCAAs by Babson and ... Babson is ranked in the preseason poll while Williams is outside looking in. That seems to be about right.

I concur, and hope the newer structure of regions continues to force the hand of some of these schools to do what it takes to A. Play better competition and B. Play more games. If that means starting earlier, so be it. (Who hasn’t shoveled a field before)

Midd's OOC (like usual) includes 4 teams ranked in the preseason Top 20 (RPI, Babson, Union and St. Lawrence). They beat those same teams last year.

Right, “includes” makes it sound like there are at least a few other games. They have exactly one other OOC game. Springfield (like usual). What’s going on at Middlebury? Is funding an issue? Why do they play just 5 OOC games, 15 games total? Surely they can find other teams to play, maybe a few new ones too… wishful thinking…