I'm really holding out hope for that Non-preppy lax tie.
Funny coming from Quint.
He's still trying to live-down being the guy who "raided the Boys Latin lost and found."
They haven't been able to exit with the ball in the back of their sticks for 4 years now.....the ball has to come out in the air or on the ground after the clamp.....FMUBart wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:25 amThank you Doxology...any rule change that gets discussed happens for one reason: multiple coaches AND officials have recommended the change. I say keep the clamp, but only if done with the front of the stick. It's awful when the fogo comes out with the ball and then tries to throw with a mangled stick with the ball on the "wrong" side of the head. Best change would be to revert to late 70's early 80's before the pinched heads were allowed...Doxology wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:17 pmIf it's really Tambroni, then Marr is his mouthpiece because Marr is the one who spoke up.
Regardless, as someone else pointed out a few days ago - this has to go through PROP first. The rules committee did not come up with this suggestion (as early posters said); it's from the coaches.
Out of curiosity. What do you feel is wrong with the clamp?
I guess I don't understand what you are saying. Currently even if you are able to win a clamp, the ball has to immediately come out as a groundball or in the air(out of the stick). you can't keep it clamped for any period of time, it has to come out...not sure how the back of the stick is causing any difference. It used to when you could exit with the ball in the back of your stick...but you cant do that any longer....so not sure how a pinched stick or unpinched stick will change anything.....many of the top FO guys now manage to clamp/rake the ball out to a place where they themselves can pick the ball up....is that what you don't like...are you saying the FO guy himself shouldn't be able to win the groundball they create off the FO? Maybe make it so possession off the FO has to be first won by one of the wings? is that what you are saying? Look I know a lot about this only because my kid is a high level D1 lacrosse FO kid.. I am not a lacrosse guy., never played it...I just wonder what really they don't like about the current rules. Right now you hardly ever see a FO that is tied up on the whistle with the FO guys going around in a circle to win it...98% of FO are won quickly on the whistle and comes out through a rake or clamp immediately......I just don't know how they could change what they have now to make it any better...without removing the FO from the game...which I hope doesn't happen.....I think contested groundballs in any game are great for the game...we will see...I think what the coaches don't like about the current FO is its hard to coach the position and recruit for it...that shouldn't be a reason to change the current rules....it should mean you have to learn how to coach it and recruit it...FO has to be the most under coached position on the field...FMUBart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:13 pm I played in the 80's when the ball was placed "IN" the back of the fogo's sticks...the scrums were legendary as the two would go round-n-round with the ball in between the back of their sticks. The ball on the ground solved the aforementioned stalemates, but the "pinch-n-pop" came into play as the stick design changed. I believe the rule book DOES state that a player cannot clamp the ball(other than the goalie) anywhere on the field other than the rake motion you described--"one continuous motion". It's just hard to believe such an integral part of the game is decided by the back of the stick Disallowing the clamp would cause the fogo's to create a true gb off the draw.
it is the most undercoached element of the game. and coaches don't like it because all of them have lost a game, maybe that ended or helped end their season, and they figure "if only" my other coaching wasn't waylaid by faceoffs. so they want a 50/50 split that is written in the rules precisely so there isn't a 50/50 split just because someone scored, ending the play.cmbtp88 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:43 amI guess I don't understand what you are saying. Currently even if you are able to win a clamp, the ball has to immediately come out as a groundball or in the air(out of the stick). you can't keep it clamped for any period of time, it has to come out...not sure how the back of the stick is causing any difference. It used to when you could exit with the ball in the back of your stick...but you cant do that any longer....so not sure how a pinched stick or unpinched stick will change anything.....many of the top FO guys now manage to clamp/rake the ball out to a place where they themselves can pick the ball up....is that what you don't like...are you saying the FO guy himself shouldn't be able to win the groundball they create off the FO? Maybe make it so possession off the FO has to be first won by one of the wings? is that what you are saying? Look I know a lot about this only because my kid is a high level D1 lacrosse FO kid.. I am not a lacrosse guy., never played it...I just wonder what really they don't like about the current rules. Right now you hardly ever see a FO that is tied up on the whistle with the FO guys going around in a circle to win it...98% of FO are won quickly on the whistle and comes out through a rake or clamp immediately......I just don't know how they could change what they have now to make it any better...without removing the FO from the game...which I hope doesn't happen.....I think contested groundballs in any game are great for the game...we will see...I think what the coaches don't like about the current FO is its hard to coach the position and recruit for it...that shouldn't be a reason to change the current rules....it should mean you have to learn how to coach it and recruit it...FO has to be the most under coached position on the field...FMUBart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:13 pm I played in the 80's when the ball was placed "IN" the back of the fogo's sticks...the scrums were legendary as the two would go round-n-round with the ball in between the back of their sticks. The ball on the ground solved the aforementioned stalemates, but the "pinch-n-pop" came into play as the stick design changed. I believe the rule book DOES state that a player cannot clamp the ball(other than the goalie) anywhere on the field other than the rake motion you described--"one continuous motion". It's just hard to believe such an integral part of the game is decided by the back of the stick Disallowing the clamp would cause the fogo's to create a true gb off the draw.
cmbtp88 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:43 amI guess I don't understand what you are saying. Currently even if you are able to win a clamp, the ball has to immediately come out as a groundball or in the air(out of the stick). you can't keep it clamped for any period of time, it has to come out...not sure how the back of the stick is causing any difference. It used to when you could exit with the ball in the back of your stick...but you cant do that any longer....so not sure how a pinched stick or unpinched stick will change anything.....many of the top FO guys now manage to clamp/rake the ball out to a place where they themselves can pick the ball up....is that what you don't like...are you saying the FO guy himself shouldn't be able to win the groundball they create off the FO? Maybe make it so possession off the FO has to be first won by one of the wings? is that what you are saying? Look I know a lot about this only because my kid is a high level D1 lacrosse FO kid.. I am not a lacrosse guy., never played it...I just wonder what really they don't like about the current rules. Right now you hardly ever see a FO that is tied up on the whistle with the FO guys going around in a circle to win it...98% of FO are won quickly on the whistle and comes out through a rake or clamp immediately......I just don't know how they could change what they have now to make it any better...without removing the FO from the game...which I hope doesn't happen.....I think contested groundballs in any game are great for the game...we will see...I think what the coaches don't like about the current FO is its hard to coach the position and recruit for it...that shouldn't be a reason to change the current rules....it should mean you have to learn how to coach it and recruit it...FO has to be the most under coached position on the field...FMUBart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:13 pm I played in the 80's when the ball was placed "IN" the back of the fogo's sticks...the scrums were legendary as the two would go round-n-round with the ball in between the back of their sticks. The ball on the ground solved the aforementioned stalemates, but the "pinch-n-pop" came into play as the stick design changed. I believe the rule book DOES state that a player cannot clamp the ball(other than the goalie) anywhere on the field other than the rake motion you described--"one continuous motion". It's just hard to believe such an integral part of the game is decided by the back of the stick Disallowing the clamp would cause the fogo's to create a true gb off the draw.
hmmmm....ok...i hear you, this is the NCAA rule....:FMUBart wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 3:29 pmcmbtp88 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:43 amI guess I don't understand what you are saying. Currently even if you are able to win a clamp, the ball has to immediately come out as a groundball or in the air(out of the stick). you can't keep it clamped for any period of time, it has to come out...not sure how the back of the stick is causing any difference. It used to when you could exit with the ball in the back of your stick...but you cant do that any longer....so not sure how a pinched stick or unpinched stick will change anything.....many of the top FO guys now manage to clamp/rake the ball out to a place where they themselves can pick the ball up....is that what you don't like...are you saying the FO guy himself shouldn't be able to win the groundball they create off the FO? Maybe make it so possession off the FO has to be first won by one of the wings? is that what you are saying? Look I know a lot about this only because my kid is a high level D1 lacrosse FO kid.. I am not a lacrosse guy., never played it...I just wonder what really they don't like about the current rules. Right now you hardly ever see a FO that is tied up on the whistle with the FO guys going around in a circle to win it...98% of FO are won quickly on the whistle and comes out through a rake or clamp immediately......I just don't know how they could change what they have now to make it any better...without removing the FO from the game...which I hope doesn't happen.....I think contested groundballs in any game are great for the game...we will see...I think what the coaches don't like about the current FO is its hard to coach the position and recruit for it...that shouldn't be a reason to change the current rules....it should mean you have to learn how to coach it and recruit it...FO has to be the most under coached position on the field...FMUBart wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 2:13 pm I played in the 80's when the ball was placed "IN" the back of the fogo's sticks...the scrums were legendary as the two would go round-n-round with the ball in between the back of their sticks. The ball on the ground solved the aforementioned stalemates, but the "pinch-n-pop" came into play as the stick design changed. I believe the rule book DOES state that a player cannot clamp the ball(other than the goalie) anywhere on the field other than the rake motion you described--"one continuous motion". It's just hard to believe such an integral part of the game is decided by the back of the stick Disallowing the clamp would cause the fogo's to create a true gb off the draw.
Let me clear it up for you: the "pinch and pop" wasn't a "thing" back in the 80's--stick design changed in the later half of the 80's. The ability to pinch the ball off a faceoff should not be allowed..I'm fine with a clamp and immediate rake--it's the ball being pinched in the back of the stick that's ridiculous. It should be immediately called "withholding" and ball awarded to opposing team, imho..
well, if we can't bring up 1979 then don't bring up basketball? basketball has 8 timeouts for coaches. there is a mandatory 8 teevee timeouts. they call dozens and dozens of fouls and stop the clock. the ball goes out of bounds and everything stops to line up. they then run substitutions with a horn ad nauseum, before the ball can be put into play. every time they shoot free throws, it takes longer than a faceoff. it takes as long to have a 40 minute basketball game as a 60 minute lacrosse game. go on?laxpert wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:23 pm The NBA eliminated the center jump ball after every made basket in 1938. I've attended' off season tournaments with faceoffs only at the start of the game and halftime, it makes for a faster paced game Don't bring up 1979, I played in 1979 an era of unlimited long poles and horn substitutions, its not 1979. Top teams clear the ball at over 90 percent and even lower ranked teams are successful better than 80 percent of the time.
I wonder the rules allowed officials to stop play after faceoff and do a stick check if it would help resolve the issue. just an arbitrary check once or twice a half. It is an unwritten rule that you don't ask for a stick check on a FOGO but most jam a softball in the throat the second they get off the field to get the stick back into compliance.
Did you ever consider that all the rule changes over the last five years including previous faceoff rule changes have made the game as popular and exiting as it is now? Far too many games are decided by two players who probably couldn't play any other position and who generally have the worst stick skills on the team. Faceoffs should NOT be a game within a game and with these new changes, it would become more of a team faceoff. How could anyone think that is a bad thing.
you can't legislate coaches and players trying harder. so do you know whether the changes were tested out in the fall scrimmages, anywhere? is there a link to the results?Laxnation wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:35 pmDid you ever consider that all the rule changes over the last five years including previous faceoff rule changes have made the game as popular and exiting as it is now? Far too many games are decided by two players who probably couldn't play any other position and who generally have the worst stick skills on the team. Faceoffs should NOT be a game within a game and with these new changes, it would become more of a team faceoff. How could anyone think that is a bad thing.
“ Far too many games are decided by two players who probably couldn't play any other position and who generally have the worst stick skills on the team.”Laxnation wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:35 pmDid you ever consider that all the rule changes over the last five years including previous faceoff rule changes have made the game as popular and exiting as it is now? Far too many games are decided by two players who probably couldn't play any other position and who generally have the worst stick skills on the team. Faceoffs should NOT be a game within a game and with these new changes, it would become more of a team faceoff. How could anyone think that is a bad thing.
So what are we going to do with goalies, seeing that they " probably couldn't play any other position and who generally have the worst stick skills on the team." Should we get rid of them too? Games aren't decided by 2 faceoff guys, especially now. Name a team last year in the NCAA tournament that decided any game by their FO guy...????? It already is "more of a team faceoff". People need to understand the current FO rules as they exist right now before suggesting changes to make it different. The PLL rules are dumb, they allow the FO guy to go down on one knee, use whatever grip they want to yet they are trying to make FO less important. If they really wanted that in the PLL they would go to the NCAA rules for stance and grip, yet they don't. makes no sense.Laxnation wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:35 pmDid you ever consider that all the rule changes over the last five years including previous faceoff rule changes have made the game as popular and exiting as it is now? Far too many games are decided by two players who probably couldn't play any other position and who generally have the worst stick skills on the team. Faceoffs should NOT be a game within a game and with these new changes, it would become more of a team faceoff. How could anyone think that is a bad thing.
I don’t like the fact they are banning long poles from the faceoff in the PLL, but I see this as more of a move to promote the Faceoff in the PLL.wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:48 pm as opposed to admitting the 32 second rule was a mistake, and simply rolling it back to say, 42..... rabil is now banning the longpole. in the pll. where everything goes.
be prepared for more banning at the faceoff x. it has most obviously had a target on its back for a long time.