D1 Men NCAA Tournament

[OCanada]

The notion there is a Hop bias is absurd. The Rutgers example is even more absurd. There were three outcomes that had to happen for Hopkins to get in and one was Rutgers not taking care of business,

It is insulting to the Committee go claim otherwise. But tell me who is on the committee and who is driving the bias that is claimed over all those years on a Committee that changes membership or is it like Moses handing down a tablet?

[ABV 8.3%]

If only Moses had attended College Park instead of heading straight to a paycheck.

[HooDat]

UMBC is still dancing!

Not enough is being said on these boards about how every state of Maryland team is in the D1 big dance (except the one that had the easiest path Mount St. Mary's!).

Count 'em: Loyola, Towson, UMBC, Hopkins, Maryland, and even Georgetown. 6 Maryland teams. Almost all of whom will lose in the next round except one of Towson or UMD, but hey, who's counting now?

In any event, has this ever happened in the history of the D1 tournament, every Maryland team survived the regular season and made it into the tournament? Am I missing any team besides the Mount?

Navy?

Argh! I knew I forgot someone.

not to pick nits, but Georgetown is not in Maryland either.....

although to be fair, the US government did take the land for DC from the state of Maryland (the Virginia part was taken back by Virginia (during the civil war??)

[Wheels]

(the Virginia part was taken back by Virginia (during the civil war??)

Terminal proof that Virginia has sucked and will always suck. Time immemorial.

[It aint over yet]

On another topic when does the All America list come out ? Is it tomorrow, Friday ?

[wgdsr]

The numbers are the numbers. It all starts there.

The committee has guidelines and rules. I have not heard any of those coaches complaint. they were treated unfairly sc offing to the guidelines.

My cynicism is triggered by the thought Garnsey May be reinstated at ND for their playoff game after well .,,

finally!
we've been tearing our hair out, where have you been?

there are guidelines and rules. there's objective criteria. the numbers are the numbers, and it all starts there.

what are they, and where can we find them? how much is weighted for x, y and z? where are these rules?

[Peter Brown]

UMBC is still dancing!

Not enough is being said on these boards about how every state of Maryland team is in the D1 big dance (except the one that had the easiest path Mount St. Mary's!).

Count 'em: Loyola, Towson, UMBC, Hopkins, Maryland, and even Georgetown. 6 Maryland teams. Almost all of whom will lose in the next round except one of Towson or UMD, but hey, who's counting now?

In any event, has this ever happened in the history of the D1 tournament, every Maryland team survived the regular season and made it into the tournament? Am I missing any team besides the Mount?

Navy?

Argh! I knew I forgot someone.

not to pick nits, but Georgetown is not in Maryland either.....

although to be fair, the US government did take the land for DC from the state of Maryland (the Virginia part was taken back by Virginia (during the civil war??)

Argh, you're correct! I keep thinking of Georgetown Prep up the street a few miles, which is in Maryland!

In any event, a decent showing in the NCAAA's for the state of Maryland. 5 and 1/2 teams ain't shabby!

[Cooter]

On another topic when does the All America list come out ? Is it tomorrow, Friday ?

I think the coaches usually vote on it at this time. In the past it has often come out during the semifinal games.

[OCanada]

Call and ask the Committee either for them or where you can get them. Or call whoever covers lax for IL or the Sun. I don’t care enough about it to invest the time.

I do know there has not been an outcry from the coaches association who have the greatest stake in a fair decision. All those guys are competitive as heck and aren’t giving any one favorable treatment at anyone else’s expense. Nor from the members of the Committee over the years. All I hear are whiney fans. Reminds of a scene from Animal House.

Rutgers keeps coming up. A red herring. There were three Gabe’s that determined whether Hopkins would make the tournament or who among then would. They all knew going in to the games. Rutgers wins and they are in. Simple but they didn’t. I recall the second game was a PSY game but could be wrong. It was a very long shot Hopkins would not. They were prepared for it.

I don’t believe DP has ever been on the Committee. It amazes me to think anyone believes the Committee will work against its own best interests because there is some kind of double secret set of rules that requires Hopkins must be in.

It’s the stuff of rightvwing comspiracy theories

[Hawkeye]

although to be fair, the US government did take the land for DC from the state of Maryland (the Virginia part was taken back by Virginia (during the civil war??)

It was given back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_ ... trocession

[Matnum PI]

why pretend to hide behind analytics that you are obviously not using? Just pick who you want and dont appologize

May just be a coincidence but their selections correspond directly to FanLax's Simplified RPI (last column).

[Hawkeye]

May just be a coincidence but their selections correspond directly to FanLax's Simplified RPI (last column).

The level of correlation between selections (and even seeding/ordering of teams) and official RPI was also extremely high this year.

http://www.laxbytes.com/2019/binmenstats/rpiing01.php

[runrussellrun]

Call and ask the Committee either for them or where you can get them. Or call whoever covers lax for IL or the Sun. I don’t care enough about it to invest the time.

I do know there has not been an outcry from the coaches association who have the greatest stake in a fair decision. All those guys are competitive as heck and aren’t giving any one favorable treatment at anyone else’s expense. Nor from the members of the Committee over the years. All I hear are whiney fans. Reminds of a scene from Animal House.

Rutgers keeps coming up. A red herring. There were three Gabe’s that determined whether Hopkins would make the tournament or who among then would. They all knew going in to the games. Rutgers wins and they are in. Simple but they didn’t. I recall the second game was a PSY game but could be wrong. It was a very long shot Hopkins would not. They were prepared for it.

I don’t believe DP has ever been on the Committee. It amazes me to think anyone believes the Committee will work against its own best interests because there is some kind of double secret set of rules that requires Hopkins must be in.

It’s the stuff of rightvwing comspiracy theories

ANd yet.......here you are

[OCanada]

And yet I don’t care enough about something that i have written is not a problem. So where is the data to support the allegation.

I do believe there are things that could and maybe should be changed. I don’t know that RPI is the best measure for example. I do think it is far better than W/L records or margin of victory. In the event it requires far greater numbers of teams to be as effective as it can be

Everyone seems to agree the AQ is a great thing. Were there no AQ Cornell would be in.

ACC will only get to six teams if another ACC team decides to add lax.

I read complaints about fixing and favoritism but when asked to substantiate it well “the rest is silence”.

I was asked to provide information on the formula. It is not something I want to invest time in but I would think if someone was truly motivated instead of just whining they could follow the bread crumbs and find an answer

[wgdsr]

And yet I don’t care enough about something that i have written is not a problem. So where is the data to support the allegation.

I do believe there are things that could and maybe should be changed. I don’t know that RPI is the best measure for example. I do think it is far better than W/L records or margin of victory. In the event it requires far greater numbers of teams to be as effective as it can be

Everyone seems to agree the AQ is a great thing. Were there no AQ Cornell would be in.

ACC will only get to six teams if another ACC team decides to add lax.

I read complaints about fixing and favoritism but when asked to substantiate it well “the rest is silence”.

I was asked to provide information on the formula. It is not something I want to invest time in but I would think if someone was truly motivated instead of just whining they could follow the bread crumbs and find an answer

you were asked because in defense of whatever you were defending (hopkins? the committee?), you said they followed the numbers. and that there are rules and guidelines, that they followed.
well, it turns out there are rules and guidelines that they're supposed to follow (if not weightings), they are in the actual rulebook.
it also turns out --- from multiple interviews, but most eye opening from the chairman's q&a in the sun on friday (who has been on the committee for multiple years)--- essentially that he expected to:
-use rpi as the measuring stick for the teams, even though the criteria spells out what should be used and a team's rpi is NOT one of them
-they'll then use some of the ACTUAL criteria to see if anything's off, and pick the teams if there's no big surprise that they can jump over. on saturday night. with games still to play. that would affect everyone's rpi. that they used to guide/set the process. which isn't in the actual criteria.
-then... surprise... the teams selected this year fall right along rpi lines. at least toward the bottom of at larges.

note, not all years happen this way, and that is (one of) the cruxes of the problem that people have. so for your defense of the committee (hopkins?), citing "the numbers are the numbers", "they followed the rules and guidelines"... shouldn't be part of them. imo. unless you have rules that i'm not aware of. which is why i asked. it seems you don't, or don't have time to get them.

[Big Dog]

Everyone seems to agree the AQ is a great thing.

Not me. I think holding a tournament with a 5/6 team league is stupid. I'd rather play more Out of Conference games; let the winner of the 'regular season' have an AQ if that is considered valuable. (ACC can have one too.)

full disclosure, not a fan of the football league championships either.

[HooDat]

although to be fair, the US government did take the land for DC from the state of Maryland (the Virginia part was taken back by Virginia (during the civil war??)

It was given back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_ ... trocession

nice - I have been to the old SW corner market hundreds of times (had an aunt who lived a block or two way) and never new that detail.

[OCanada]

Well written wgdsr. I think I said there is no evidence there is a pro Hopkins going back years. None.

First it sssumes the Committee deliberately and at the expense of other fellow coaches has a pro Hopkind bias. That is an insult to the integrity of the committee and its individual members.

Second if that bias actually existed you would have heard about it from the coaches themselves.

The Committee has been charged with selecting the best teams fir the tournament given the guidelines like AQs and guidance on at large participation.

Disclosure: I have known quite a few members of the committee and have no reason that has not been their goal every year. They all know slighting the door fir anyone would be a start down a slippery slope. O don’t know the inside details other than to say I know any school under discussion has to leave the room and DP has not been on the Committee as I recall.

IL has someone who follows the bracketing closely. There are committee members, the NCAA and the press. I don’t believe there is any bias and I think the burden of proof lies with anyone making the allegation. You cannot price a negative. You can prove s positive. So let’s see the proof or end it.

I don’t like RPI particularly. Not enough games and or schools playing g go make it meaningful. I don’t think HP merits getting in this year.

I don’t think having the AQ has driven much of anything. I do t tho k the growth of the sport is correlated. The sport has been expanding rapidly for years tho starting from a small base.

I don’t think moving the tourney around has made a material difference either. The NCAA hide to drive up revenue although as they wrexfomd would happen it has backfired.

[OCanada]

Well written wgdsr. I think I said there is no evidence there is a pro Hopkins going back years. None.

First it sssumes the Committee deliberately and at the expense of other fellow coaches has a pro Hopkind bias. That is an insult to the integrity of the committee and its individual members.

Second if that bias actually existed you would have heard about it from the coaches themselves.

The Committee has been charged with selecting the best teams fir the tournament given the guidelines like AQs and guidance on at large participation.

Disclosure: I have known quite a few members of the committee and have no reason that has not been their goal every year. They all know slighting the door fir anyone would be a start down a slippery slope. O don’t know the inside details other than to say I know any school under discussion has to leave the room and DP has not been on the Committee as I recall.

IL has someone who follows the bracketing closely. There are committee members, the NCAA and the press. I don’t believe there is any bias and I think the burden of proof lies with anyone making the allegation. You cannot price a negative. You can prove s positive. So let’s see the proof or end it.

I don’t like RPI particularly. Not enough games and or schools playing g go make it meaningful. I don’t think HP merits getting in this year.

I don’t think having the AQ has driven much of anything. I do t tho k the growth of the sport is correlated. The sport has been expanding rapidly for years tho starting from a small base.

I don’t think moving the tourney around has made a material difference either. The NCAA hide to drive up revenue although as they wrexfomd would happen it has backfired.

[Farfromgeneva]

it would be far more satisfying if the selection committee simply let in the conference champions, and then awarded at-large bids however the heck they felt like - you know kind of the way the do now, but with them admitting that they chose who they chose and go pound sand if you don't like it....

why pretend to hide behind analytics that you are obviously not using? Just pick who you want and dont appologize

I agree with this. This is what the basketball committee does. Their selection criteria are to pick the best teams, period, using any and all available info.

The other extreme is hockey, which uses a precise mathematical formula for selection and seeding.

The "just pick" method requires committee members who actually know something about the sport. Most lax committee members are not in this category.

I don’t even know if having the very “best” expert committee matters, more important is a committee committed to transparency and accountability.