Our Undeclared Wars

[old salt]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

As I have continually called for NATO to do more in all areas, so the US has to do less.
That has been mischaracterized as supporting Trump destroying NATO.

This has been a f-up from the get go. Inadequate diplomatic advance work. Sound "Charge" & nobody follows. Ready, fire, aim.

Now we have a gaggle of NATO ships, sailing around the Red Sea, all doing their own thing.
I hope none of our F-18's get targeted.

[a fan]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

[old salt]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

If you reread my post & think, you will note that I said NATO should Command this task force, not encompass it completely.
That way, nations who fear domestic opposition to the US support of Israel can say they are not under US command & they're not supporting Israel, they are helping keep the sea lanes open for international trade.

Several of our NATO & Pacific allies have baseline AEGIS equipped destroyers & frigates which could network with more capable USN destroyers, but they don't carry as many missiles as we do & they don't have the anti-ballistic missile (BMD) capability that we have. It will take 4 -6 warships to adequately cover the Red Sea & Gulf of Aden. Only one USN destroyer, positioned in the right place to intercept ballistic missiles from Yemen, would be required. The remaining warships could be dispersed (& networked under NATO command) to cover the entire area vs drones & cruise missiles.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedi ... l-alliance

Norway has 4 baseline AEGIS Frigates => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fridtjof_ ... ss_frigate.
Though not BMD capable, they can network with other AEGIS ships. Only one would be needed to host a Norwegian Task Force Commander.
The NATO SecGen is the former PM of Norway. Or 1 of Spain's 5 baseline AEGIS Frigates could function as the NATO TF flagship.

Other nations can & do perform missions like Task Force 151 which patrols the Gulf of Aden to protect merchant shipping from the Somali pirates.
https://combinedmaritimeforces.com/ctf- ... er-piracy/
They do not need an air defense capability for that mission.

[a fan]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

So Houthi capabilites are better than....Germany's?

This is a matter of will, OS. That's my point. I don't doubt that because the US takes the lead on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE....making it so a 1st world nation like France can't handle an attack from a 3rd world nation.

Israel must have magic beans. They have no trouble defending themselves against 8th rate powers.

[old salt]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

So Houthi capabilites are better than....Germany's?

This is a matter of will, OS. That's my point. I don't doubt that because the US takes the lead on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE....making it so a 1st world nation like France can't handle an attack from a 3rd world nation.

Israel must have magic beans. They have no trouble defending themselves against 8th rate powers.

Israel does have magic beans. They call them the Iron Dome.

The Houthis Iranian provided anti-shipping capability is superior to Germany's ability to defend against it.
The Germans 3 Air Defense Frigates ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_26_frigate ) could help vs cruise missiles & drones, but like all other navies, other than the US, Japanese & maybe the Brits ( https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... n-red-sea/ ), they are all vulnerable to attack by ballistic missiles. That probably contributes to the diplomatic reluctance to send warships into the confined area of the Red Sea.

It's more than a matter of will. It's a matter of capability. The Iranians stole a march on NATO by deploying their anti-ship ballistic missiles to a proxy capable of threatening Red Sea shipping lanes. NATO is again dependent on the US provided BMD shield.

[a fan]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

So Houthi capabilites are better than....Germany's?

This is a matter of will, OS. That's my point. I don't doubt that because the US takes the lead on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE....making it so a 1st world nation like France can't handle an attack from a 3rd world nation.

Israel must have magic beans. They have no trouble defending themselves against 8th rate powers.

Israel does have magic beans. They call them the Iron Dome.

The Houthis Iranian provided anti-shipping capability is superior to Germany's ability to defend against it.

That's right. Why? Why can''t Germany defend against that?

Choice. That's it. That's my point. Nothing more.

Israel did it. US can do it. It's not magic. It's willpower.

And as long as we do this stuff for everyone? We're like the parent who never lets his kids do anything themselves....they become permanently dependent.

I want that to change, and have for 30+ years. Only way to change? Stop enabling this behavior.

Do you want this behavior to continue for another 100 years....while EU kids flourish and have free health care?

Park our ships in US ports. Or? Fee for service. Pick one. Tired of watching my tax dollars going to enable this sh(t. This is no different than the money you claim to care about when it's going to Ukraine.....why the F are we paying for this?

[old salt]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

So Houthi capabilites are better than....Germany's?

This is a matter of will, OS. That's my point. I don't doubt that because the US takes the lead on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE....making it so a 1st world nation like France can't handle an attack from a 3rd world nation.

Israel must have magic beans. They have no trouble defending themselves against 8th rate powers.

Israel does have magic beans. They call them the Iron Dome.

The Houthis Iranian provided anti-shipping capability is superior to Germany's ability to defend against it.

That's right. Why? Why can''t Germany defend against that?

Choice. That's it. That's my point. Nothing more.

Israel did it. US can do it. It's not magic. It's willpower.

And as long as we do this stuff for everyone? We're like the parent who never lets his kids do anything themselves....they become permanently dependent.

I want that to change, and have for 30+ years. Only way to change? Stop enabling this behavior.

Do you want this behavior to continue for another 100 years....while EU kids flourish and have free health care?

Park our ships in US ports. Or? Fee for service. Pick one. Tired of watching my tax dollars going to enable this sh(t. This is no different than the money you claim to care about when it's going to Ukraine.....why the F are we paying for this?

So vote for Trump, ...oops, can't do that in CO.

Unlike Ukraine, closing the Red Sea has a direct impact on us.

[a fan]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

So Houthi capabilites are better than....Germany's?

This is a matter of will, OS. That's my point. I don't doubt that because the US takes the lead on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE....making it so a 1st world nation like France can't handle an attack from a 3rd world nation.

Israel must have magic beans. They have no trouble defending themselves against 8th rate powers.

Israel does have magic beans. They call them the Iron Dome.

The Houthis Iranian provided anti-shipping capability is superior to Germany's ability to defend against it.

That's right. Why? Why can''t Germany defend against that?

Choice. That's it. That's my point. Nothing more.

Israel did it. US can do it. It's not magic. It's willpower.

And as long as we do this stuff for everyone? We're like the parent who never lets his kids do anything themselves....they become permanently dependent.

I want that to change, and have for 30+ years. Only way to change? Stop enabling this behavior.

Do you want this behavior to continue for another 100 years....while EU kids flourish and have free health care?

Park our ships in US ports. Or? Fee for service. Pick one. Tired of watching my tax dollars going to enable this sh(t. This is no different than the money you claim to care about when it's going to Ukraine.....why the F are we paying for this?

So vote for Trump, ...oops, can't do that in CO.

Right. Because Trump will change that.

You know, for a guy who keeps telling us that you don't like Trump, you sure spend a lot of time claiming he's done things that he hasn't done.

Unlike Ukraine, closing the Red Sea has a direct impact on us.

Right. Ukraine trades nothing. Have you checked on barley or malt prices lately?

No. You haven't. See any American breweries closing from, among other things, massive price increases on raw materials.

You'd rather invent reasons you like or don't like something, instead of simply calling balls and strikes.

[old salt]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

So Houthi capabilites are better than....Germany's?

This is a matter of will, OS. That's my point. I don't doubt that because the US takes the lead on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE....making it so a 1st world nation like France can't handle an attack from a 3rd world nation.

Israel must have magic beans. They have no trouble defending themselves against 8th rate powers.

Israel does have magic beans. They call them the Iron Dome.

The Houthis Iranian provided anti-shipping capability is superior to Germany's ability to defend against it.

That's right. Why? Why can''t Germany defend against that?

Choice. That's it. That's my point. Nothing more.

Israel did it. US can do it. It's not magic. It's willpower.

And as long as we do this stuff for everyone? We're like the parent who never lets his kids do anything themselves....they become permanently dependent.

I want that to change, and have for 30+ years. Only way to change? Stop enabling this behavior.

Do you want this behavior to continue for another 100 years....while EU kids flourish and have free health care?

Park our ships in US ports. Or? Fee for service. Pick one. Tired of watching my tax dollars going to enable this sh(t. This is no different than the money you claim to care about when it's going to Ukraine.....why the F are we paying for this?

So vote for Trump, ...oops, can't do that in CO.

Right. Because Trump will change that.

You know, for a guy who keeps telling us that you don't like Trump, you sure spend a lot of time claiming he's done things that he hasn't done.

Unlike Ukraine, closing the Red Sea has a direct impact on us.

Right. Ukraine trades nothing. Have you checked on barley or malt prices lately?

No. You haven't. See any American breweries closing from, among other things, massive price increases on raw materials.

You'd rather invent reasons you like or don't like something, instead of simply calling balls and strikes.

That's why I've been calling for us to end this stupid war since before we enabled Ukraine's bloody counter offensive, which was doomed to fail without air cover, ...so you'd have cheaper barley or malt prices. Let the beer drinkers pay a premium & drink up the surplus Bud Light rather than their botique craft brews. Higher grain prices are good for your farmer friends so they can pay truck driver wages to undocumented field hands. obtw- the grain ships are sailing out of UKraine again, but now they can't transit the Red Sea & Suez Canal. Now tell me what a good deal it is that our weapons enabled the good former Soviet Russians to kill hundreds of thousands of bad former Soviet Russians, while losing hundreds of thousands of their own countrymen. What a good deal for Biden's Team USA.

[a fan]

That's why I've been calling for this stupid war to end since before we enabled Ukraine's bloody counter offensive, which was doomed to fail without air cover, ...so you'd have cheaper barley or malt prices. Let the beer drinkers pay a premium. Higher grain prices are good for your farmer friends so they can pay truck driver wages to undocumented field hands. obtw- the grain ships are sailing out of UKraine again, but now they can't transit the Red Sea & Suez Canal. Now tell me what a good deal it is that our weapons enabled the good former Soviet Russians to kill all those thousands of bad former Soviet Russians, while losing hundreds of thousands of their own countrymen. What a good deal for Biden's Team USA.

You know perfectly well that I'm the one guy on the board who thinks we should never have gotten involved militarily.

And I apply this same concept to the Red Sea. Where the F are the Saudis? Did we just sell them a bunch of military cr*p?

They can't keep their lanes clear?

[old salt]

That's why I've been calling for this stupid war to end since before we enabled Ukraine's bloody counter offensive, which was doomed to fail without air cover, ...so you'd have cheaper barley or malt prices. Let the beer drinkers pay a premium. Higher grain prices are good for your farmer friends so they can pay truck driver wages to undocumented field hands. obtw- the grain ships are sailing out of UKraine again, but now they can't transit the Red Sea & Suez Canal. Now tell me what a good deal it is that our weapons enabled the good former Soviet Russians to kill all those thousands of bad former Soviet Russians, while losing hundreds of thousands of their own countrymen. What a good deal for Biden's Team USA.

You know perfectly well that I'm the one guy on the board who thinks we should never have gotten involved militarily.

And I apply this same concept to the Red Sea. Where the F are the Saudis? Did we just sell them a bunch of military cr*p?

They can't keep their lanes clear?

You told me we have to defend Ukraine because we paid them to give up their nucs 3 decades ago,

The Saudis are trying to make peace with the Houthi & end their war. The Houthi have been shooting those missiles at the Saudi's oil fields & refineries.
The Saudi's don't have warships capable of that long range air defense mission. We have to deploy a Patriot battery to defend their oil infrastructure.
War with Iraq is the last thing the Saudis want. That would close down the Persian Gulf.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/us ... ping-yemen
There is an element of irony should the Biden administration now decide to take on the Houthis. Under pressure from Congress, it put enormous pressure on Saudi Arabia to declare a cease-fire in the war and sue for peace. Biden even lifted the US designation of the Houthis as a “terrorist organization” to facilitate Saudi-Houthi peace talks.

[a fan]

You told me we have to defend Ukraine because we paid them to give up their nucs 3 decades ago,

I told you that we had to make a TREATY with them, yes. We screwed them on that count. So did the other countries involved.

If they still had those nukes? Putin couldn't invade. Problem solved.

But since we didn't do that? I have maintained the same stance: no military involvement, and put the screws to Russia economically.

The Saudis are trying to make peace with the Houthi & end their war. The Houthi have been shooting those missiles at the Saudi's oil fields & refineries.
The Saudi's don't have warships capable of that long range air defense mission.

Don't need them. If the sea lanes along the Saudi shore are threatened? Attack Yemeni ships and ports with land and sea based weapons. Hit back. Defend your ports.


Why are the Saudis not responsible for defending their own ports and shipping lanes? Why is this the responsibility of a US Navy that's 7,000+ miles away?

[old salt]

You told me we have to defend Ukraine because we paid them to give up their nucs 3 decades ago,

I told you that we had to make a TREATY with them, yes. We screwed them on that count. So did the other countries involved.

If they still had those nukes? Putin couldn't invade. Problem solved.

But since we didn't do that? I have maintained the same stance: no military involvement, and put the screws to Russia economically.

The Saudis are trying to make peace with the Houthi & end their war. The Houthi have been shooting those missiles at the Saudi's oil fields & refineries.
The Saudi's don't have warships capable of that long range air defense mission.

Don't need them. If the sea lanes along the Saudi shore are threatened? Attack Yemeni ships and ports with land and sea based weapons. Hit back. Defend your ports.

Why are the Saudis not responsible for defending their own ports and shipping lanes? Why is this the responsibility of a US Navy that's 7,000+ miles away?

... the Houthis don't own any merchant ships. Nobody visits their ports since they tried to blow up the USS Cole, which was there on a "good will" fuel stop by the USN, to give them some commerce to help them develop their port services.

As I documented in my post -- Biden is pressuring the Saudis to end their war against the Houti in Yemen, not widen it.
Like most other navies of the world, the Saudis don't have shops capable of dealing with this specific threat.

As I've also documented above, Iran's provision of anti-shipping ballistic missiles to their Houthi proxies has opened a whole new level of their war against the west. Only the US, Japan, & (in the near future) the Brits have the warships capable of countering this specific threat. Other navies can send their ships to counter the Houthi/Iranian drones & cruise missiles, under the ballistic missile protection provided by a USN AEGIS BMD equipped destroyer.

Am I not being clear in explaining this, or are you being willfully obtuse because you don't accept reality as it exists ?
The Iranians are opening a whole new front in their war against the civilized world & we're releasing their sanctioned $'s to pay for it.

[a fan]

... the Houthis don't own any merchant ships.

Iran does. Start sinking ships. They'll get the message.

I'm against unprovoked war. But defending your nation is fine.

As I documented in my post -- Biden is pressuring the Saudis to end their war against the Houti in Yemen, not widen it.
Like most other navies of the world, the Saudis don't have shops capable of dealing with this specific threat.

I get that. That's THE point: build one. How the F do the Saudis have THAT much coastline with THAT much dependence on shipping oil....and not have a freaking fleet?

Am I not being clear in explaining this, or are you being willfully obtuse because you don't accept reality as it exists ?
The Iranians are opening a whole new front in their war against the civilized world & we're releasing their sanctioned $'s to pay for it.

You're being perfectly clear. You're giving the Saudis (and others) a pass for not protecting shipping lanes that are directly adjacent to their own freaking countries. I'm not. They've got money. They've got shipyards. Build a fleet.


As for the Houtis? Hit the Iranians if you want to avoid hitting Yemen. Start turning their ships into coral reefs. If that doesn't get the message across, start hitting ports.

Defend your nation.

Iran keeps playing these games because no one hits back.

Hit back.

[tech37]

... the Houthis don't own any merchant ships.

Iran does. Start sinking ships. They'll get the message.

I'm against unprovoked war. But defending your nation is fine.

As I documented in my post -- Biden is pressuring the Saudis to end their war against the Houti in Yemen, not widen it.
Like most other navies of the world, the Saudis don't have shops capable of dealing with this specific threat.

I get that. That's THE point: build one. How the F do the Saudis have THAT much coastline with THAT much dependence on shipping oil....and not have a freaking fleet?

Am I not being clear in explaining this, or are you being willfully obtuse because you don't accept reality as it exists ?
The Iranians are opening a whole new front in their war against the civilized world & we're releasing their sanctioned $'s to pay for it.

You're being perfectly clear. You're giving the Saudis (and others) a pass for not protecting shipping lanes that are directly adjacent to their own freaking countries. I'm not. They've got money. They've got shipyards. Build a fleet.

As for the Houtis? Hit the Iranians if you want to avoid hitting Yemen. Start turning their ships into coral reefs. If that doesn't get the message across, start hitting ports.

Defend your nation.

Iran keeps playing these games because no one hits back.

Hit back.

Never thought I'd end the year agreeing with a fan on much of anything. Too bad it's regarding more war, unprovoked or otherwise.

[Kismet]

... the Houthis don't own any merchant ships.

Iran does. Start sinking ships. They'll get the message.

I'm against unprovoked war. But defending your nation is fine.

As I documented in my post -- Biden is pressuring the Saudis to end their war against the Houti in Yemen, not widen it.
Like most other navies of the world, the Saudis don't have shops capable of dealing with this specific threat.

I get that. That's THE point: build one. How the F do the Saudis have THAT much coastline with THAT much dependence on shipping oil....and not have a freaking fleet?

Am I not being clear in explaining this, or are you being willfully obtuse because you don't accept reality as it exists ?
The Iranians are opening a whole new front in their war against the civilized world & we're releasing their sanctioned $'s to pay for it.

You're being perfectly clear. You're giving the Saudis (and others) a pass for not protecting shipping lanes that are directly adjacent to their own freaking countries. I'm not. They've got money. They've got shipyards. Build a fleet.

As for the Houtis? Hit the Iranians if you want to avoid hitting Yemen. Start turning their ships into coral reefs. If that doesn't get the message across, start hitting ports.

Defend your nation.

Iran keeps playing these games because no one hits back.

Hit back.

Never thought I'd end the year agreeing with a fan on much of anything. Too bad it's regarding more war, unprovoked or otherwise.

Agreed. Saudi navy doesn't have a ship bigger than a frigate. Mostly corvettes. Maybe divert some of that LIV golf $$$$$ to build some kind of military defense capability in a bad neighborhood.

And barking the BS about NATO command when no NATO Navy except the Brits and us have the ships and weapons to do the job is just more anti-European piling on by their biggest "fan" around here. Sometimes think Saltine hates the Euros more than the Rooskies.

Wasn't too long ago we were trying to get the Saudis to stop bombing the Houthis which they finally did - no everyone wants us to bomb them. Maybe retract that terrorist designation first though.

[PizzaSnake]

Just a little thought for you guys: asymmetric economic and materiel conflict.

Since SAMs are increasingly used to neutralize Iranian-sourced drones, what is the cost and procurement schedule differential between a SAM and a drone? I think maybe the Iranians are better at basic game theory than the US...

That little adventurism back in 1953 sure does continue to pay handsome dividends, doesn't it?

[youthathletics]

Just a little thought for you guys: asymmetric economic and materiel conflict.

Since SAMs are increasingly used to neutralize Iranian-sourced drones, what is the cost and procurement schedule differential between a SAM and a drone? I think maybe the Iranians are better at basic game theory than the US...

That little adventurism back in 1953 sure does continue to pay handsome dividends, doesn't it?

No need to show the world, yet, that EMP and HMP warfare will drop a drone in an instant. At this point, firing a missile shows intent from the bad guys. Kinda hard to document in EMP/HMP pulse in retaliation to show the world the bad guys are attacking.

[PizzaSnake]

Just a little thought for you guys: asymmetric economic and materiel conflict.

Since SAMs are increasingly used to neutralize Iranian-sourced drones, what is the cost and procurement schedule differential between a SAM and a drone? I think maybe the Iranians are better at basic game theory than the US...

That little adventurism back in 1953 sure does continue to pay handsome dividends, doesn't it?

No need to show the world, yet, that EMP and HMP warfare will drop a drone in an instant. At this point, firing a missile shows intent from the bad guys. Kinda hard to document in EMP/HMP pulse in retaliation to show the world the bad guys are attacking.

EMPs are a little tricky if all of your assets aren’t “hardened.”

[a fan]

Here's why NATO, not the US, should be in Command of the Red Sea task force. What better mission for NATO ?
Another diplomatic success for the Team Biden NSC propeller heads.

? You have ripped me....repeatedly....for telling you that other nations are perfectly able to keep the shipping lanes that are nowhere near the US clear.

You have responded...multiple times...that ONLY the US can do it.

What happened to this opinion of yours?

It is consistent. I posted earlier on this issue that this should be a NATO commanded mission, for just this reason.

That doesn't my point: FOR YEARS you told me that the US HAD to keep our sea lanes open, and that I was nuts to think that any other country in the world could defend them. I'll pull up the posts if you want.

Obviously from your tone here, you remember this perfectly well.

What you're telling me now is: I was right, and you were wrong. Other nations----including NATO----are perfectly capable of doing this pedestrian job.

No they are not. Not THIS "pedestrian" job. No other nation has sufficient missile tubes hooked into a radar & command & control network capable of dealing with this many targets. The USN is the only force capable of THIS specific mission.

So Houthi capabilites are better than....Germany's?

This is a matter of will, OS. That's my point. I don't doubt that because the US takes the lead on EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE....making it so a 1st world nation like France can't handle an attack from a 3rd world nation.

Israel must have magic beans. They have no trouble defending themselves against 8th rate powers.

Israel does have magic beans. They call them the Iron Dome.

The Houthis Iranian provided anti-shipping capability is superior to Germany's ability to defend against it.

That's right. Why? Why can''t Germany defend against that?

Choice. That's it. That's my point. Nothing more.

Israel did it. US can do it. It's not magic. It's willpower.

And as long as we do this stuff for everyone? We're like the parent who never lets his kids do anything themselves....they become permanently dependent.

I want that to change, and have for 30+ years. Only way to change? Stop enabling this behavior.

Do you want this behavior to continue for another 100 years....while EU kids flourish and have free health care?

Park our ships in US ports. Or? Fee for service. Pick one. Tired of watching my tax dollars going to enable this sh(t. This is no different than the money you claim to care about when it's going to Ukraine.....why the F are we paying for this?

So vote for Trump, ...oops, can't do that in CO.

Unlike Ukraine, closing the Red Sea has a direct impact on us.

.....you're going to come on here and praise Biden for green lighting the Navy...who promptly dropped three Houthi ships to the bottom of the Sea, yeah?