NESCAC

[slippinjimmy]

Trying to start discussion... These are just my thoughts and not set in stone.
With that being said here is how I would expect the NESCAC to look at the end of the spring.

1. Midd
2. Bowdoin
3. Tufts
4. Conn
5. Williams
6. Amherst
7. Trinity
8. Hamilton
9. Wesleyan
10. Colby
11. Bates

Thoughts on this/any changes you would make?

Definitely some hot takes, but I would personally keep tufts 1 until someone takes them down. I know they lost a lot of talent but they always reload. I would also put williams above Conn, and Wesleyan higher.

Yeah the other guy had the same point, I guess the fair thing to do would be to keep Tufts one, but Midd and Bowdoin are practically the same teams while losing an entire attack and FOGO on Tufts end has to drop them in my opinion. I had Conn above Williams because they beat them last year and played some great games against Tufts, Midd, Amherst, and Bowdoin. They also pretty much return everyone. Wesleyan is an interesting one because it would have seemed like last year they should have been good, but just couldn't find their groove - I would look at teams like Hamilton, Trinity and Conn to be the ones to push the ladder this year.

[slippinjimmy]

Trying to start discussion... These are just my thoughts and not set in stone.
With that being said here is how I would expect the NESCAC to look at the end of the spring.

1. Midd
2. Bowdoin
3. Tufts
4. Conn
5. Williams
6. Amherst
7. Trinity
8. Hamilton
9. Wesleyan
10. Colby
11. Bates

Thoughts on this/any changes you would make?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Conn. I'm not very familiar with that roster outside of Liam Horkan who was a fantastic off ball finisher in his time at Belmont Hill. Looks like he had a strong freshman year (22g, 4a and .431 shooting percentage).

Horkan is great and will have an even better year this year as that inside/off-ball guy for Conn. Conn really doesn't lose much, now with a veteran roster. Conn's defense is very impressive, holding Midd to 10, keeping a lot of games close, and being backstopped by Will Rice, who had a stellar year last year.

[slippinjimmy]

Seeing a lot of talk about NESCAC kids and D1 blah blah blah

Anyone actually wanna talk NESCAC? Thoughts heading to the year?

Excited to see how teams like Wesleyan respond, Bernhardt does at Colby, how Tufts reloads, teams like Trinity Conn and Hamilton keep moving in the right direction.

[ChopMan23]

Seeing a lot of talk about NESCAC kids and D1 blah blah blah

Anyone actually wanna talk NESCAC? Thoughts heading to the year?

Excited to see how teams like Wesleyan respond, Bernhardt does at Colby, how Tufts reloads, teams like Trinity Conn and Hamilton keep moving in the right direction.

It almost seems like the playing field will be somewhat leveled now with Tufts losses, aside from Bates. But we know Tufts reloads and brings in top notch guys. Who do you have as early season favorite to win the conference? I think Middlebury will be my pick.

[Unknown Participant]

Seeing a lot of talk about NESCAC kids and D1 blah blah blah

Anyone actually wanna talk NESCAC? Thoughts heading to the year?

Excited to see how teams like Wesleyan respond, Bernhardt does at Colby, how Tufts reloads, teams like Trinity Conn and Hamilton keep moving in the right direction.

It almost seems like the playing field will be somewhat leveled now with Tufts losses, aside from Bates. But we know Tufts reloads and brings in top notch guys. Who do you have as early season favorite to win the conference? I think Middlebury will be my pick.

I think/am pretty sure Tufts has won 12 of the last 13 Nescac championships so I would not be too eager to bet against the 'Bos. No offense to the panthers (a boring mascot name shared by thousands of other teams).

[ah23]

…Depends on who/what position(s), but…I think the answer is a lot. The NESCAC is way too good, and lacrosse is too much of a team game for a couple of guys to turn an 0-10 team into the conference’s best.

C’mon, give a number. Or at least which positions you think would provide the most impact.

I think goalie would be the most impactful. Would maybe put ball-dominant/scoring middie or attack second because of how much easier they could (in theory) make everyone's lives around them. I imagine some people would argue for FOGO, but dominating faceoffs only matters if the rest of your team can make those possessions count...which Bates could not.

You think O’Neill and Dyson Williams + a Bates attackman shooting on Tufts’ D wouldn’t outpace Tufts’ attack shooting on Bates’ D?

I think there would be basically zero chance of that happening. Bates would still have to win faceoffs, defend 6v6, deal with the inevitable doubles/faceguarding, etc. I think the number would legitimately have to be mid-to-high single digits for Bates to realistically have a chance.

It’s all hypothetical anyways. Let’s not let the overarching narrative every NESCAC poster seems to have to pledge allegiance to, that NESCAC is as good as DI, prevent any fun discourse.

Being the best conference in D-III is very different than being as good as D-I. You can probably count on one hand the number of D-III teams that could play a D-I schedule and not look completely out of place.

My point is that saying the conference's worst team is only two players away from being better than one of D-III's perennial powers massively underrates the top (and even the middle) of the conference. The NESCAC isn't D-I...but it also isn't the SAA. Again: Bates went 0-10 in conference play and lost by less than a touchdown once in those ten games. Adding two guys doesn't close that gap. I think this would be more realistic if the conversation were about Middlebury and or someone from the Amherst/Williams/Bowdoin group.

[Unknown Participant]

…Depends on who/what position(s), but…I think the answer is a lot. The NESCAC is way too good, and lacrosse is too much of a team game for a couple of guys to turn an 0-10 team into the conference’s best.

C’mon, give a number. Or at least which positions you think would provide the most impact.

I think goalie would be the most impactful. Would maybe put ball-dominant/scoring middie or attack second because of how much easier they could (in theory) make everyone's lives around them. I imagine some people would argue for FOGO, but dominating faceoffs only matters if the rest of your team can make those possessions count...which Bates could not.

You think O’Neill and Dyson Williams + a Bates attackman shooting on Tufts’ D wouldn’t outpace Tufts’ attack shooting on Bates’ D?

I think there would be basically zero chance of that happening. Bates would still have to win faceoffs, defend 6v6, deal with the inevitable doubles/faceguarding, etc. I think the number would legitimately have to be mid-to-high single digits for Bates to realistically have a chance.

It’s all hypothetical anyways. Let’s not let the overarching narrative every NESCAC poster seems to have to pledge allegiance to, that NESCAC is as good as DI, prevent any fun discourse.

Being the best conference in D-III is very different than being as good as D-I. You can probably count on one hand the number of D-III teams that could play a D-I schedule and not look completely out of place.

My point is that saying the conference's worst team is only two players away from being better than one of D-III's perennial powers massively underrates the top (and even the middle) of the conference. The NESCAC isn't D-I...but it also isn't the SAA. Again: Bates went 0-10 in conference play and lost by less than a touchdown once in those ten games. Adding two guys doesn't close that gap. I think this would be more realistic if the conversation were about Middlebury and or someone from the Amherst/Williams/Bowdoin group.

See Gebhardt a grad transfer to MIT. I made my point in another thread that Gebhardt made MIT a top 20 team the last cpl years. Of course, MIT is a perfect lab for that sort of thing with great coaching, a bunch of guys that are smart/hard working and drop an All American into the mix. Can say the same about Chlastawa from Bates a few years back.

[callaxdad]

Trying to start discussion... These are just my thoughts and not set in stone.
With that being said here is how I would expect the NESCAC to look at the end of the spring.

1. Midd
2. Bowdoin
3. Tufts
4. Conn
5. Williams
6. Amherst
7. Trinity
8. Hamilton
9. Wesleyan
10. Colby
11. Bates

Thoughts on this/any changes you would make?

I'll weigh in on this preseason prognostication. First off, full disclosure, I do have a dog in the fight which makes me biased but also gives some intimate knowledge as well.

In addition to losing all of the starting attack and starting FOGO, Tufts loses an AA SSDM and AA long pole. So, for starters, while losing Kohn is significant, Tufts has 2 returning FOGO's who, IMHO, could be all league. Losing JB, Swank and Bruun is obviously huge, those guys carried the O. However, offensively Tufts returns its top 6 O middies, one or two of which could easily slide down to A. We shall see. They also return 2 of their top 4 D mids, both starting LSM's, their starting goalie and all of their poles who saw significant minutes other than one. So, on paper, defensively and possibly at the X, Tufts will be better than last year. Offense is a big time ? at this juncture.

I agree with the top 3 on your list, really could be a tossup in terms of who's 1, 2 or 3. But, until someone knocks them off, I think the top spot has to belong to Tufts!! (did I mention I'm biased? )

Good post to get the conversation started SlippyJ! Would love to hear some takes on the other squads in the conference!

I hope all of the fellow lax junkies on this thread had a wonderful Christmas and best wishes for a very Happy New Year!

[shorelax12]

Trying to start discussion... These are just my thoughts and not set in stone.
With that being said here is how I would expect the NESCAC to look at the end of the spring.

1. Midd
2. Bowdoin
3. Tufts
4. Conn
5. Williams
6. Amherst
7. Trinity
8. Hamilton
9. Wesleyan
10. Colby
11. Bates

Thoughts on this/any changes you would make?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Conn. I'm not very familiar with that roster outside of Liam Horkan who was a fantastic off ball finisher in his time at Belmont Hill. Looks like he had a strong freshman year (22g, 4a and .431 shooting percentage).

Horkan is great and will have an even better year this year as that inside/off-ball guy for Conn. Conn really doesn't lose much, now with a veteran roster. Conn's defense is very impressive, holding Midd to 10, keeping a lot of games close, and being backstopped by Will Rice, who had a stellar year last year.

Horkan was impressive last year, probably will get a lot more attention from opposing defenses now that Rainville is gone. I think that Conn is really starting to show the impact that Nagle has had on the program now that the bulk of the team are his recruits.

[Chipzhoo]

It's funny, I've seen a few references to Conn holding Midd to 10 as support for how good they can be this season. What if Midd's performance @ Conn was more about Midd than it was about Conn?

[shorelax12]

It's funny, I've seen a few references to Conn holding Midd to 10 as support for how good they can be this season. What if Midd's performance @ Conn was more about Midd than it was about Conn?

Perhaps, but look at the rest of their results. Outside of a few games that should have been wins, their record against the top of the conference was pretty solid, and they lost a one goal game to Tufts, who only scored 15 goals, not a lot teams of held Tufts under 20 during the regular season. So while it may have been a bit about Midd..it was also not a one-off performance by Conn.

[shorelax12]

It's funny, I've seen a few references to Conn holding Midd to 10 as support for how good they can be this season. What if Midd's performance @ Conn was more about Midd than it was about Conn?

Perhaps, but look at the rest of their results. Outside of a few games that should have been wins, their record against the top of the conference was pretty solid, and they lost a one goal game to Tufts, who only scored 15 goals, not a lot teams of held Tufts under 20 during the regular season. So while it may have been a bit about Midd..it was also not a one-off performance by Conn.

Correction, not necessarily their record against the top of the conference, but the fact that they were competitive in most games.

[DoubleD]

Dd

[Laxxal22]

It's funny, I've seen a few references to Conn holding Midd to 10 as support for how good they can be this season. What if Midd's performance @ Conn was more about Midd than it was about Conn?

Hasn't Midd's main issue since the dynasty years typically been the result of the whole being less than the sum of its parts?

[Chipzhoo]

It's funny, I've seen a few references to Conn holding Midd to 10 as support for how good they can be this season. What if Midd's performance @ Conn was more about Midd than it was about Conn?

Hasn't Midd's main issue since the dynasty years typically been the result of the whole being less than the sum of its parts?

Can't speak to the historical aspect but watched them closely last year and saw them begin to solve a few things on offense over the course of the season. Their young talent has another year of play under their belts and they have some physically imposing players on the offensive end (Thorndike, Logan White, and Cooper DeMallie) who all had some high production games after the Conn game.

[Unknown Participant]

It's funny, I've seen a few references to Conn holding Midd to 10 as support for how good they can be this season. What if Midd's performance @ Conn was more about Midd than it was about Conn?

Perhaps, but look at the rest of their results. Outside of a few games that should have been wins, their record against the top of the conference was pretty solid, and they lost a one goal game to Tufts, who only scored 15 goals, not a lot teams of held Tufts under 20 during the regular season. So while it may have been a bit about Midd..it was also not a one-off performance by Conn.

2023 Nescac quarters, Tufts 20 Camels 6, just sayin'. And I agree that the Camels GK almost won that regular season game. He was incredible.

[shorelax12]

It's funny, I've seen a few references to Conn holding Midd to 10 as support for how good they can be this season. What if Midd's performance @ Conn was more about Midd than it was about Conn?

Perhaps, but look at the rest of their results. Outside of a few games that should have been wins, their record against the top of the conference was pretty solid, and they lost a one goal game to Tufts, who only scored 15 goals, not a lot teams of held Tufts under 20 during the regular season. So while it may have been a bit about Midd..it was also not a one-off performance by Conn.

2023 Nescac quarters, Tufts 20 Camels 6, just sayin'. And I agree that the Camels GK almost won that regular season game. He was incredible.

You mean the same NESCAC tournament that they beat Middlebury 19-6, just saying.

[RamsFan]

I'll weigh in on this preseason prognostication. First off, full disclosure, I do have a dog in the fight which makes me biased but also gives some intimate knowledge as well.

In addition to losing all of the starting attack and starting FOGO, Tufts loses an AA SSDM and AA long pole. So, for starters, while losing Kohn is significant, Tufts has 2 returning FOGO's who, IMHO, could be all league. Losing JB, Swank and Bruun is obviously huge, those guys carried the O. However, offensively Tufts returns its top 6 O middies, one or two of which could easily slide down to A. We shall see. They also return 2 of their top 4 D mids, both starting LSM's, their starting goalie and all of their poles who saw significant minutes other than one. So, on paper, defensively and possibly at the X, Tufts will be better than last year. Offense is a big time ? at this juncture.

I agree with the top 3 on your list, really could be a tossup in terms of who's 1, 2 or 3. But, until someone knocks them off, I think the top spot has to belong to Tufts!! (did I mention I'm biased? )

Good post to get the conversation started SlippyJ! Would love to hear some takes on the other squads in the conference!

I hope all of the fellow lax junkies on this thread had a wonderful Christmas and best wishes for a very Happy New Year!

I just heard a rumor that Swank is coming back from his 6 month sabbatical marlin fishing in Costa Rica and will be back in Medford by mid-Jan. If so, there's another 70+ goals back in the jumbo column. Combine that with an even more experienced Tagliaferri, Regnery, and Ettinghausen (who I predict will be this year's big surprise), and i'm guessing everyone else in the 'cac will be chasing the Bo's once again (likely the case regardless of whether Swank is back or not).

[callaxdad]

I'll weigh in on this preseason prognostication. First off, full disclosure, I do have a dog in the fight which makes me biased but also gives some intimate knowledge as well.

In addition to losing all of the starting attack and starting FOGO, Tufts loses an AA SSDM and AA long pole. So, for starters, while losing Kohn is significant, Tufts has 2 returning FOGO's who, IMHO, could be all league. Losing JB, Swank and Bruun is obviously huge, those guys carried the O. However, offensively Tufts returns its top 6 O middies, one or two of which could easily slide down to A. We shall see. They also return 2 of their top 4 D mids, both starting LSM's, their starting goalie and all of their poles who saw significant minutes other than one. So, on paper, defensively and possibly at the X, Tufts will be better than last year. Offense is a big time ? at this juncture.

I agree with the top 3 on your list, really could be a tossup in terms of who's 1, 2 or 3. But, until someone knocks them off, I think the top spot has to belong to Tufts!! (did I mention I'm biased? )

Good post to get the conversation started SlippyJ! Would love to hear some takes on the other squads in the conference!

I hope all of the fellow lax junkies on this thread had a wonderful Christmas and best wishes for a very Happy New Year!

I just heard a rumor that Swank is coming back from his 6 month sabbatical marlin fishing in Costa Rica and will be back in Medford by mid-Jan. If so, there's another 70+ goals back in the jumbo column. Combine that with an even more experienced Tagliaferri, Regnery, and Ettinghausen (who I predict will be this year's big surprise), and i'm guessing everyone else in the 'cac will be chasing the Bo's once again (likely the case regardless of whether Swank is back or not).

Lemme tell you something, if Swank is in Costa Rica fishin he may never come back!!! Anyway, that would be great if he did. But, as I said, big ? is the offense. I think Reg could be NESCAC OPOY. And I agree w you, X-ray (Max E), will be a big contributor, he just had to bide his time...really talented!

[jumpman23]

I'll weigh in on this preseason prognostication. First off, full disclosure, I do have a dog in the fight which makes me biased but also gives some intimate knowledge as well.

In addition to losing all of the starting attack and starting FOGO, Tufts loses an AA SSDM and AA long pole. So, for starters, while losing Kohn is significant, Tufts has 2 returning FOGO's who, IMHO, could be all league. Losing JB, Swank and Bruun is obviously huge, those guys carried the O. However, offensively Tufts returns its top 6 O middies, one or two of which could easily slide down to A. We shall see. They also return 2 of their top 4 D mids, both starting LSM's, their starting goalie and all of their poles who saw significant minutes other than one. So, on paper, defensively and possibly at the X, Tufts will be better than last year. Offense is a big time ? at this juncture.

I agree with the top 3 on your list, really could be a tossup in terms of who's 1, 2 or 3. But, until someone knocks them off, I think the top spot has to belong to Tufts!! (did I mention I'm biased? )

Good post to get the conversation started SlippyJ! Would love to hear some takes on the other squads in the conference!

I hope all of the fellow lax junkies on this thread had a wonderful Christmas and best wishes for a very Happy New Year!

I just heard a rumor that Swank is coming back from his 6 month sabbatical marlin fishing in Costa Rica and will be back in Medford by mid-Jan. If so, there's another 70+ goals back in the jumbo column. Combine that with an even more experienced Tagliaferri, Regnery, and Ettinghausen (who I predict will be this year's big surprise), and i'm guessing everyone else in the 'cac will be chasing the Bo's once again (likely the case regardless of whether Swank is back or not).

Anyone know when Amherst will post their schedule? Williams and Midd look like tough schedules. And Bowdoin seems to have boosted their out of conference games. But why does Bowdoin only play 14 games and not 15 like everyone else and they did last year? Wesleyan seems to have only a fair out of conference schedule.