Orange Duce

[youthathletics]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

Them be your pals.

[MDlaxfan76]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

It's not as if you couldn't go to CNN itself for the story.
Nope, you chose to share that hate-mongering drivel hound's twitter thread.
That was your choice.
Just putting it out there...

On the actual merits of whether this will strengthen Trump, I think that's likely true insofar as to hardens against any slippage in the primaries. I don't think it helps him the general, though.

The reality is that a court as found him to be engaged in insurrection and an appeals court agreed (on that point 6-1)...and MAGA people respond that he's being persecuted. This particular finding is going to be fully subsumed by lots of other court findings before it's all done, and no doubt MAGA support will further harden along the way...much to their ever living shame, I think.

Meanwhile, I think the Colorado Court got it right, at a minimum on the finding that Trump engaged in insurrection, but I suspect SCOTUS will find a narrow way to overturn the decision that he can't be on the ballot...

[youthathletics]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

It's not as if you couldn't go to CNN itself for the story.
Nope, you chose to share that hate-mongering drivel hound's twitter thread.
That was your choice.
Just putting it out there...

On the actual merits of whether this will strengthen Trump, I think that's likely true insofar as to hardens against any slippage in the primaries. I don't think it helps him the general, though.

The reality is that a court as found him to be engaged in insurrection and an appeals court agreed (on that point 6-1)...and MAGA people respond that he's being persecuted. This particular finding is going to be fully subsumed by lots of other court findings before it's all done, and no doubt MAGA support will further harden along the way...much to their ever living shame, I think.

Meanwhile, I think the Colorado Court got it right, at a minimum on the finding that Trump engaged in insurrection, but I suspect SCOTUS will find a narrow way to overturn the decision that he can't be on the ballot...

And its not as if you could have just commented on the video to which I drew attention, triggered fits perfectly. And, proves yet again the inability to collect or receive data from places that are outside the tunnel vision of mainstream view.

What you fail to see, b/c your political cathexes with Trump/MAGA, is that these X cites also include tons of commentary for and against a posted comment, just like posts by Biden or anyone else you perceive as 'stand-up', no different than here on Fan Lax, just to a far higher degree of engagements on X. Hey....we can google any topic just like you and make ourselves sound omniscient...many of just have the ability tune out the noise and not be triggered by things that take up bandwidth from which we are unfamiliar or disagree. You should try it, it may very well help with MAGA trigger complex.

[kramerica.inc]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

It's not as if you couldn't go to CNN itself for the story.
Nope, you chose to share that hate-mongering drivel hound's twitter thread.
That was your choice.
Just putting it out there...

On the actual merits of whether this will strengthen Trump, I think that's likely true insofar as to hardens against any slippage in the primaries. I don't think it helps him the general, though.

The reality is that a court as found him to be engaged in insurrection and an appeals court agreed (on that point 6-1)...and MAGA people respond that he's being persecuted. This particular finding is going to be fully subsumed by lots of other court findings before it's all done, and no doubt MAGA support will further harden along the way...much to their ever living shame, I think.

Meanwhile, I think the Colorado Court got it right, at a minimum on the finding that Trump engaged in insurrection, but I suspect SCOTUS will find a narrow way to overturn the decision that he can't be on the ballot...

And its not as if you could have just commented on the video to which I drew attention, triggered fits perfectly. And, proves yet again the inability to collect or receive data from places that are outside the tunnel vision of mainstream view.

What you fail to see, b/c your political cathexes with Trump/MAGA, is that these X cites also include tons of commentary for and against a posted comment, just like posts by Biden or anyone else you perceive as 'stand-up', no different than here on Fan Lax, just to a far higher degree of engagements on X. Hey....we can google any topic just like you and make ourselves sound omniscient...many of just have the ability tune out the noise and not be triggered by things that take up bandwidth from which we are unfamiliar or disagree. You should try it, it may very well help with MAGA trigger complex.

+1

Many outlets shelter the public from the news.

Google "Biden tax lien."

Fox News, NY Post, Telegraph. pop up.

CBS, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC not even a news brief. Crickets.

Odd. Especially when those same outlets crave content, any content.

And publish things like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/denver-zoo ... ka-father/

[dislaxxic]

How deliciously ironic is it that the guy who tried to get Obama declared ineligible via birtherism, now is on a collision course with a SCOTUS packed with his toady appointees...over the issue of...ELIGIBILITY!!

Have you seen Justice Goresuch's opinion of a similar case when he was on the...

WAIT FOR IT...

COLORADO SUPREME COURT?!?

Katyal says "There are three things the Constitution requires of a President: Must be 1) 35 years old, 2) a natural citizen, and 3) NOT AN INSURRECTIONIST!" That's it...three things to be eligible.

This fat dude is toast. The hard core MAGAts aren't enough to pull this train wreck over the finish line.

RESIST mad authoritarian ala/Orange Numbnuts.

..

[CU88a]

2xIMPOTUS doesn't testify in his own defense at NY trial, after demanding his time to speak in court.

2xIMPOTUS says he is innocent and has full immunity and demands that the SCOTUS shut down Jack Smith; but now appeals expedited SCOTUS on the matter and says "Haste makes waste".

DEPLORABLE LIAR

[a fan]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

It's not as if you couldn't go to CNN itself for the story.
Nope, you chose to share that hate-mongering drivel hound's twitter thread.
That was your choice.
Just putting it out there...

On the actual merits of whether this will strengthen Trump, I think that's likely true insofar as to hardens against any slippage in the primaries. I don't think it helps him the general, though.

The reality is that a court as found him to be engaged in insurrection and an appeals court agreed (on that point 6-1)...and MAGA people respond that he's being persecuted. This particular finding is going to be fully subsumed by lots of other court findings before it's all done, and no doubt MAGA support will further harden along the way...much to their ever living shame, I think.

Meanwhile, I think the Colorado Court got it right, at a minimum on the finding that Trump engaged in insurrection, but I suspect SCOTUS will find a narrow way to overturn the decision that he can't be on the ballot...

And its not as if you could have just commented on the video to which I drew attention, triggered fits perfectly. And, proves yet again the inability to collect or receive data from places that are outside the tunnel vision of mainstream view.

What you fail to see, b/c your political cathexes with Trump/MAGA, is that these X cites also include tons of commentary for and against a posted comment, just like posts by Biden or anyone else you perceive as 'stand-up', no different than here on Fan Lax, just to a far higher degree of engagements on X. Hey....we can google any topic just like you and make ourselves sound omniscient...many of just have the ability tune out the noise and not be triggered by things that take up bandwidth from which we are unfamiliar or disagree. You should try it, it may very well help with MAGA trigger complex.

+1

Many outlets shelter the public from the news.

Google "Biden tax lien."

Fox News, NY Post, Telegraph. pop up.

CBS, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC not even a news brief. Crickets.

Odd. Especially when those same outlets crave content, any content.

And publish things like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/denver-zoo ... ka-father/

You think a $5k tax lien is National News? As in: stop the presses, this is IMPORTANT.

Ashley Biden failed to pay $1,691 in income taxes to Pennsylvania in 2015 and $1,956 in 2021. As a result, the Commonwealth imposed a $2,736 and $2,249 lien respectively on her property, along with a $94 filing fee.

This is serious news to you, Kram?

[kramerica.inc]

I didn't take you as a Maury guy.
Thought you were more of a Jerry Springer fan.

[a fan]

I didn't take you as a Maury guy.
Thought you were more of a Jerry Springer fan.

Translation: no, you realize that a $5k tax lien is NOT National "need to know" news.

[youthathletics]

I didn't take you as a Maury guy.
Thought you were more of a Jerry Springer fan.

Translation: no, you realize that a $5k tax lien is NOT National "need to know" news.

Ha….Bill Barr would agree with you, not worth the time, right?

[a fan]

I didn't take you as a Maury guy.
Thought you were more of a Jerry Springer fan.

Translation: no, you realize that a $5k tax lien is NOT National "need to know" news.

Ha….Bill Barr would agree with you, not worth the time, right?

I get Kram's point....but this is the wrong hill.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

It's not as if you couldn't go to CNN itself for the story.
Nope, you chose to share that hate-mongering drivel hound's twitter thread.
That was your choice.
Just putting it out there...

On the actual merits of whether this will strengthen Trump, I think that's likely true insofar as to hardens against any slippage in the primaries. I don't think it helps him the general, though.

The reality is that a court as found him to be engaged in insurrection and an appeals court agreed (on that point 6-1)...and MAGA people respond that he's being persecuted. This particular finding is going to be fully subsumed by lots of other court findings before it's all done, and no doubt MAGA support will further harden along the way...much to their ever living shame, I think.

Meanwhile, I think the Colorado Court got it right, at a minimum on the finding that Trump engaged in insurrection, but I suspect SCOTUS will find a narrow way to overturn the decision that he can't be on the ballot...

And its not as if you could have just commented on the video to which I drew attention, triggered fits perfectly. And, proves yet again the inability to collect or receive data from places that are outside the tunnel vision of mainstream view.

What you fail to see, b/c your political cathexes with Trump/MAGA, is that these X cites also include tons of commentary for and against a posted comment, just like posts by Biden or anyone else you perceive as 'stand-up', no different than here on Fan Lax, just to a far higher degree of engagements on X. Hey....we can google any topic just like you and make ourselves sound omniscient...many of just have the ability tune out the noise and not be triggered by things that take up bandwidth from which we are unfamiliar or disagree. You should try it, it may very well help with MAGA trigger complex.

+1

Many outlets shelter the public from the news.

Google "Biden tax lien."

Fox News, NY Post, Telegraph. pop up.

CBS, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC not even a news brief. Crickets.

Odd. Especially when those same outlets crave content, any content.

And publish things like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/denver-zoo ... ka-father/

You think a $5k tax lien is National News? As in: stop the presses, this is IMPORTANT.

Ashley Biden failed to pay $1,691 in income taxes to Pennsylvania in 2015 and $1,956 in 2021. As a result, the Commonwealth imposed a $2,736 and $2,249 lien respectively on her property, along with a $94 filing fee.

This is serious news to you, Kram?

Biden Crime Syndicate

[MDlaxfan76]

Colorado Supreme Court holds Trump ineligible to be on ballot.

Seems polling, argues that the move will help Trump get elected. It is what many have been saying since 2015....the more you attack Trump (without negative legal outcome), the more you put on full display the argument of legitimate deep state. The more negative you go on Trump, the more his favorability rises amongst the majority of those that just 8 short years ago, never cared about politic.

CNN clip --> https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1737475 ... 70307?s=20

Go to the January 6 thread. But thanks for more "Collin Rugg" thoughts. Jesus help you.

JHC....what the EFF does Collin Rugg have to do with Frank Lutz and CNN?

It's Rugg's commentary that you linked as well as the ridiculous idiot commentary of those who responded to him.

BFD - i even said......CNN Clip. You guys are so easily triggered. sheesh.

It's not as if you couldn't go to CNN itself for the story.
Nope, you chose to share that hate-mongering drivel hound's twitter thread.
That was your choice.
Just putting it out there...

On the actual merits of whether this will strengthen Trump, I think that's likely true insofar as to hardens against any slippage in the primaries. I don't think it helps him the general, though.

The reality is that a court as found him to be engaged in insurrection and an appeals court agreed (on that point 6-1)...and MAGA people respond that he's being persecuted. This particular finding is going to be fully subsumed by lots of other court findings before it's all done, and no doubt MAGA support will further harden along the way...much to their ever living shame, I think.

Meanwhile, I think the Colorado Court got it right, at a minimum on the finding that Trump engaged in insurrection, but I suspect SCOTUS will find a narrow way to overturn the decision that he can't be on the ballot...

And its not as if you could have just commented on the video to which I drew attention, triggered fits perfectly. And, proves yet again the inability to collect or receive data from places that are outside the tunnel vision of mainstream view.

What you fail to see, b/c your political cathexes with Trump/MAGA, is that these X cites also include tons of commentary for and against a posted comment, just like posts by Biden or anyone else you perceive as 'stand-up', no different than here on Fan Lax, just to a far higher degree of engagements on X. Hey....we can google any topic just like you and make ourselves sound omniscient...many of just have the ability tune out the noise and not be triggered by things that take up bandwidth from which we are unfamiliar or disagree. You should try it, it may very well help with MAGA trigger complex.

I am frequently mightily impressed by your vocabulary as my own is not too shabby. However cathexis (properly spelled I think) is not a word I have in my ready vocabulary. Had you read that word somewhere recently or is that a word you have at the ready? Either way, good word choice!

I did respond to the topic of the clip. Pretty fulsomely, IMO.

However, the choice to link the commentary of an a-hole (short for " hate-mongering drivel hound") like Rugg was yours and yours alone. His commentary was what led the link and following were the predictable a-hole reactions from those who follow his posts.

If you don't intend to incite reaction here to such a-holishness, just link the CNN piece. Google is a simple tool, it was easy to find without Rugg's wrapper. Indeed, it was on the front page of the CNN website. Unless you think that CNN is not "mainstream"?

[Seacoaster(1)]

The rot at the top:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 004514007/

"Then-President Donald Trump personally pressured two Republican members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers not to sign the certification of the 2020 presidential election, according to recordings reviewed by The Detroit News and revealed publicly for the first time.

On a Nov. 17, 2020, phone call, which also involved Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, Trump told Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, the two GOP Wayne County canvassers, they'd look "terrible" if they signed the documents after they first voted in opposition and then later in the same meeting voted to approve certification of the county’s election results, according to the recordings.

"We've got to fight for our country," said Trump on the recordings, made by a person who was present for the call with Palmer and Hartmann. "We can't let these people take our country away from us."

McDaniel, a Michigan native and the leader of the Republican Party nationally, said at another point in the call, "If you can go home tonight, do not sign it. ... We will get you attorneys."

To which Trump added: "We'll take care of that."

Palmer and Hartmann left the canvassers meeting without signing the official statement of votes for Wayne County, and the following day, they unsuccessfully attempted to rescind their votes in favor of certification, filing legal affidavits claiming they were pressured.

The moves from Palmer, Hartmann and Trump, had they been successful, threatened to throw the statewide certification of Michigan's 2020 election in doubt.

The revelation of the contents of the call with the former president comes as he faces four counts of criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States and its voters of the rightful outcome of the election. Efforts to prevent certification of Democrat Joe Biden’s 154,000-vote victory in Michigan are an integral part of the indictment.

The call involving Trump, McDaniel, Hartmann and Palmer occurred within 30 minutes of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers meeting ending on Nov. 17, 2020, according to records reviewed by The News.

The recordings further demonstrated the direct involvement of Trump, as an incumbent president, with Republican officials in Michigan in a bid to undermine Biden's win and how some details of his efforts had remained secret as he launched a campaign to win back the White House in 2024.

Neither Palmer nor McDaniel, through a spokeswoman, disputed a summary of the call when contacted by The News. Hartmann died in 2021.

The News listened to audio that was captured in four recordings by someone present for the conversation between Trump and the canvassers. That information came to The News through an intermediary who also heard the recordings but who was not present when they were made. Sources presented the information to The News on the condition that they not be identified publicly for fear of retribution by the former president or his supporters.

The timestamp of the first recording was 9:55 p.m. Nov. 17, 2020. The time was consistent with Verizon phone records obtained by a U.S. House committee that showed Palmer received calls from McDaniel at 9:53 p.m. and 10:04 p.m.

Palmer acknowledged to The News that she and Hartmann took the call from Trump in a vehicle and that other people entered the vehicle and could have heard the conversation. She said she could not, however, identify who entered the vehicle or might have heard the conversation.

Palmer told The News repeatedly that she didn't remember what was stated on the phone call with McDaniel and Trump.

McDaniel, a Wayne County resident, said she stood by her past push for an audit of the election in Michigan, a request she and then-Michigan Republican Party Chairwoman Laura Cox made in a Nov. 21, 2020, letter to the Board of State Canvassers.

Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel has said she stands by her past push for an audit of the election in Michigan.

“What I said publicly and repeatedly at the time, as referenced in my letter on Nov. 21, 2020, is that there was ample evidence that warranted an audit," McDaniel said in a statement.

Trump’s campaign didn’t respond to a request for comment.

But Jonathan Kinloch, who was a Democratic member of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in November 2020, said what happened on the call with Trump was "insane."

“It’s just shocking that the president of the United States was at the most minute level trying to stop the election process from happening," said Kinloch, a Wayne County commissioner.

Monica Palmer, Wayne County Board of Canvassers chair in 2020, said at the time that her vote to certify the election was contingent on an audit of out-of-balance counting boards.

Despite the urging from McDaniel to seek an audit or not sign the certification, Michigan law required county canvassers across the state to prepare a statement of the votes in their counties and advance the findings to the Secretary of State's office.

About 18% of Michigan's population resides in Wayne County, and there were about 878,000 votes cast there for the November 2020 election.

Palmer previously said she left the Nov. 17, 2020, Wayne County Board of Canvassers meeting prior to physically signing the certification. As she was leaving, Trump called out of a "genuine concern for my safety," Palmer told reporters three years ago.

Back then, she described the contents of the Nov. 17, 2020, call with Trump as "Thank you for your service. I’m glad you're safe. Have a good night.”

The segments of the call reviewed by The News didn’t include those comments.

However, in the days after the call on Nov. 17, 2020, Palmer and Hartmann publicly attempted to rescind their votes and said "intense bullying and coercion" plus bad legal advice forced them to agree to certify the election after they had voted no.

'Never know what happened'

During an interview in September 2021, Palmer told the U.S. House's Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol that she couldn't recall the exact words that Trump used on the call and whether he raised issues related to the election.

The recordings reviewed by The News, which covered four minutes of a longer exchange that could have lasted no more than 11 minutes, according to phone records, clearly showed that Trump was focused on the 2020 election.

Trump said Republicans had been "cheated on this election" and "everybody knows Detroit is crooked as hell," according to the recordings.

Donald Trump speaks at his rally at DeVos Place in Grand Rapids after midnight on Nov. 8, 2016. Nine days later, he would pressure Wayne County canvassers not to certify the 2020 vote.
McDaniel said if Hartmann and Palmer certified the election without forcing an audit to occur, the public would "never know what happened in Detroit."

"How can anybody sign something when you have more votes than people?" Trump asked the canvassers, according to the recordings.

About 13 hours after the call, Trump posted on social media about Wayne County, again saying there were more votes than people.

"The two harassed patriot canvassers refuse to sign the papers," Trump added, referring to Hartmann and Palmer.

Trump's statement about there being more votes than people was inaccurate. There were only out-of-balance precincts in Detroit where there were mismatches between the number of ballots counted and the number of voters tracked. The absentee ballot poll books at 70% of Detroit's 134 absentee counting boards were initially found to be out of balance without explanation, an outcome that was not unusual for the largest city in Michigan.

In addition, Trump performed better in Detroit in 2020 than 2016, with his percentage of votes rising from 3% to 5%, and the Republican receiving 5,200 more votes in 2020 than four years earlier, according to the city's official results.

Jonathan Brater, Michigan's election director, said in an affidavit that the overall difference citywide in absentee ballots tabulated and names in poll books in Detroit was 150. There were "fewer ballots tabulated than names in the poll books," Brater said.

"If ballots had been illegally counted, there would be substantially more, not slightly fewer, ballots tabulated than names in the poll books," Brater said.

A call at night

The high-profile Wayne County canvassers meeting drew a national spotlight as supporters of Trump publicly urged the board not to certify the election based on unproven allegations of widespread fraud focused on vote counting in Detroit, a Democratic stronghold that's located in Wayne County.

Hartmann and Palmer initially voted to block the certification of the county's election, withholding the votes needed to approve certification. But later in the meeting, they changed course and supported certifying the election based on the condition that an audit take place of some precincts within Wayne County.

Later, Hartmann and Palmer refused to sign the official certification paperwork and publicly acknowledged they received a call from Trump and McDaniel.

Palmer and Hartmann participated in the call inside a vehicle that was parked outside the county's election department building on East Jefferson Avenue in Detroit, Palmer said. Hartmann was sitting next to Palmer during the call, she said.

Kinloch said Hartmann and Palmer left the meeting room on the night of Nov. 17, 2020, and never came back to sign the official statement of the votes for Wayne County.

The Michigan Bureau of Elections later told county officials the vote that occurred and the signatures of the chair or vice chair of the four-member canvassing board and the county clerk were the only things necessary to advance the certification to the State Board of Canvassers, Kinloch said.

The state board certified the 2020 presidential election on Nov. 23, 2020, solidifying Biden's victory in Michigan.

During the Nov. 17, 2020, call, Trump specifically told the Republican canvassers they'd look "terrible" if they signed the certification after initially voting against certification.

Chris Thomas, a lawyer who served as Michigan's elections director for more than three decades, said the Republican canvassers in Wayne County had no legal reason to block certification of the election.

It's pretty unfortunate, Thomas said, that Republican leaders offered to give them something, legal protection, for not doing their jobs.

"Offering something of value to a public official to not perform a required duty may raise legal issues for a person doing so," Thomas said."

[jhu72]

The rot at the top:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 004514007/

"Then-President Donald Trump personally pressured two Republican members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers not to sign the certification of the 2020 presidential election, according to recordings reviewed by The Detroit News and revealed publicly for the first time.

On a Nov. 17, 2020, phone call, which also involved Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, Trump told Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, the two GOP Wayne County canvassers, they'd look "terrible" if they signed the documents after they first voted in opposition and then later in the same meeting voted to approve certification of the county’s election results, according to the recordings.

"We've got to fight for our country," said Trump on the recordings, made by a person who was present for the call with Palmer and Hartmann. "We can't let these people take our country away from us."

McDaniel, a Michigan native and the leader of the Republican Party nationally, said at another point in the call, "If you can go home tonight, do not sign it. ... We will get you attorneys."

To which Trump added: "We'll take care of that."

Palmer and Hartmann left the canvassers meeting without signing the official statement of votes for Wayne County, and the following day, they unsuccessfully attempted to rescind their votes in favor of certification, filing legal affidavits claiming they were pressured.

The moves from Palmer, Hartmann and Trump, had they been successful, threatened to throw the statewide certification of Michigan's 2020 election in doubt.

The revelation of the contents of the call with the former president comes as he faces four counts of criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States and its voters of the rightful outcome of the election. Efforts to prevent certification of Democrat Joe Biden’s 154,000-vote victory in Michigan are an integral part of the indictment.

The call involving Trump, McDaniel, Hartmann and Palmer occurred within 30 minutes of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers meeting ending on Nov. 17, 2020, according to records reviewed by The News.

The recordings further demonstrated the direct involvement of Trump, as an incumbent president, with Republican officials in Michigan in a bid to undermine Biden's win and how some details of his efforts had remained secret as he launched a campaign to win back the White House in 2024.

Neither Palmer nor McDaniel, through a spokeswoman, disputed a summary of the call when contacted by The News. Hartmann died in 2021.

The News listened to audio that was captured in four recordings by someone present for the conversation between Trump and the canvassers. That information came to The News through an intermediary who also heard the recordings but who was not present when they were made. Sources presented the information to The News on the condition that they not be identified publicly for fear of retribution by the former president or his supporters.

The timestamp of the first recording was 9:55 p.m. Nov. 17, 2020. The time was consistent with Verizon phone records obtained by a U.S. House committee that showed Palmer received calls from McDaniel at 9:53 p.m. and 10:04 p.m.

Palmer acknowledged to The News that she and Hartmann took the call from Trump in a vehicle and that other people entered the vehicle and could have heard the conversation. She said she could not, however, identify who entered the vehicle or might have heard the conversation.

Palmer told The News repeatedly that she didn't remember what was stated on the phone call with McDaniel and Trump.

McDaniel, a Wayne County resident, said she stood by her past push for an audit of the election in Michigan, a request she and then-Michigan Republican Party Chairwoman Laura Cox made in a Nov. 21, 2020, letter to the Board of State Canvassers.

Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel has said she stands by her past push for an audit of the election in Michigan.

“What I said publicly and repeatedly at the time, as referenced in my letter on Nov. 21, 2020, is that there was ample evidence that warranted an audit," McDaniel said in a statement.

Trump’s campaign didn’t respond to a request for comment.

But Jonathan Kinloch, who was a Democratic member of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in November 2020, said what happened on the call with Trump was "insane."

“It’s just shocking that the president of the United States was at the most minute level trying to stop the election process from happening," said Kinloch, a Wayne County commissioner.

Monica Palmer, Wayne County Board of Canvassers chair in 2020, said at the time that her vote to certify the election was contingent on an audit of out-of-balance counting boards.

Despite the urging from McDaniel to seek an audit or not sign the certification, Michigan law required county canvassers across the state to prepare a statement of the votes in their counties and advance the findings to the Secretary of State's office.

About 18% of Michigan's population resides in Wayne County, and there were about 878,000 votes cast there for the November 2020 election.

Palmer previously said she left the Nov. 17, 2020, Wayne County Board of Canvassers meeting prior to physically signing the certification. As she was leaving, Trump called out of a "genuine concern for my safety," Palmer told reporters three years ago.

Back then, she described the contents of the Nov. 17, 2020, call with Trump as "Thank you for your service. I’m glad you're safe. Have a good night.”

The segments of the call reviewed by The News didn’t include those comments.

However, in the days after the call on Nov. 17, 2020, Palmer and Hartmann publicly attempted to rescind their votes and said "intense bullying and coercion" plus bad legal advice forced them to agree to certify the election after they had voted no.

'Never know what happened'

During an interview in September 2021, Palmer told the U.S. House's Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol that she couldn't recall the exact words that Trump used on the call and whether he raised issues related to the election.

The recordings reviewed by The News, which covered four minutes of a longer exchange that could have lasted no more than 11 minutes, according to phone records, clearly showed that Trump was focused on the 2020 election.

Trump said Republicans had been "cheated on this election" and "everybody knows Detroit is crooked as hell," according to the recordings.

Donald Trump speaks at his rally at DeVos Place in Grand Rapids after midnight on Nov. 8, 2016. Nine days later, he would pressure Wayne County canvassers not to certify the 2020 vote.
McDaniel said if Hartmann and Palmer certified the election without forcing an audit to occur, the public would "never know what happened in Detroit."

"How can anybody sign something when you have more votes than people?" Trump asked the canvassers, according to the recordings.

About 13 hours after the call, Trump posted on social media about Wayne County, again saying there were more votes than people.

"The two harassed patriot canvassers refuse to sign the papers," Trump added, referring to Hartmann and Palmer.

Trump's statement about there being more votes than people was inaccurate. There were only out-of-balance precincts in Detroit where there were mismatches between the number of ballots counted and the number of voters tracked. The absentee ballot poll books at 70% of Detroit's 134 absentee counting boards were initially found to be out of balance without explanation, an outcome that was not unusual for the largest city in Michigan.

In addition, Trump performed better in Detroit in 2020 than 2016, with his percentage of votes rising from 3% to 5%, and the Republican receiving 5,200 more votes in 2020 than four years earlier, according to the city's official results.

Jonathan Brater, Michigan's election director, said in an affidavit that the overall difference citywide in absentee ballots tabulated and names in poll books in Detroit was 150. There were "fewer ballots tabulated than names in the poll books," Brater said.

"If ballots had been illegally counted, there would be substantially more, not slightly fewer, ballots tabulated than names in the poll books," Brater said.

A call at night

The high-profile Wayne County canvassers meeting drew a national spotlight as supporters of Trump publicly urged the board not to certify the election based on unproven allegations of widespread fraud focused on vote counting in Detroit, a Democratic stronghold that's located in Wayne County.

Hartmann and Palmer initially voted to block the certification of the county's election, withholding the votes needed to approve certification. But later in the meeting, they changed course and supported certifying the election based on the condition that an audit take place of some precincts within Wayne County.

Later, Hartmann and Palmer refused to sign the official certification paperwork and publicly acknowledged they received a call from Trump and McDaniel.

Palmer and Hartmann participated in the call inside a vehicle that was parked outside the county's election department building on East Jefferson Avenue in Detroit, Palmer said. Hartmann was sitting next to Palmer during the call, she said.

Kinloch said Hartmann and Palmer left the meeting room on the night of Nov. 17, 2020, and never came back to sign the official statement of the votes for Wayne County.

The Michigan Bureau of Elections later told county officials the vote that occurred and the signatures of the chair or vice chair of the four-member canvassing board and the county clerk were the only things necessary to advance the certification to the State Board of Canvassers, Kinloch said.

The state board certified the 2020 presidential election on Nov. 23, 2020, solidifying Biden's victory in Michigan.

During the Nov. 17, 2020, call, Trump specifically told the Republican canvassers they'd look "terrible" if they signed the certification after initially voting against certification.

Chris Thomas, a lawyer who served as Michigan's elections director for more than three decades, said the Republican canvassers in Wayne County had no legal reason to block certification of the election.

It's pretty unfortunate, Thomas said, that Republican leaders offered to give them something, legal protection, for not doing their jobs.

"Offering something of value to a public official to not perform a required duty may raise legal issues for a person doing so," Thomas said."

... it will never end. We will be finding this type of sh*t 20 years from now.

[Kismet]

Saltine Warrior will be telling us all to wait for all the evidence to come out...and be patient.

Never mind this is the SECOND recorded call of what looks to be criminal activity with regard to the 2020 election.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Saltine Warrior will be telling us all to wait for all the evidence to come out...and be patient.

Never mind this is the SECOND recorded call of what looks to be criminal activity with regard to the 2020 election.

He will tell you that he really hasn’t been paying much attention

[Brooklyn]

Biden says he 'can't think of one' reason for total presidential immunity

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... -immunity/


President Biden said he “can’t think of one” reason for presidents to receive total immunity from prosecution, as former President Trump pushes for the courts to grant him immunity, Bloomberg reported.

Biden reportedly made the comment Saturday in response to a reporter’s question before he left the White House to travel to Camp David, where he’ll spend Christmas, according to the outlet.

Trump’s legal team on Saturday asked the District of Columbia Circuit Court of Appeals to dismiss the federal election interference case against him that special counsel Jack Smith has brought on grounds that Trump’s actions should be protected under presidential immunity.

Trump previously made the argument to Judge Tanya Chutkan, who has been overseeing the proceedings of the case, but she rejected it, ruling that the “position [of president] does not confer a lifelong ‘get-out-of-jail-free’ pass.”



There is no federal law or provision in the Constitution which confers immunity:

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/cour ... eme-court/


Under the Anglo-Saxon Common Law a former king could be prosecuted for law violations as shown in the example of Charles I who was prosecuted in 1647. As I have written before on this forum, the Common Law is entrenched in the Seventh Amendment.

Therefore, tRump does not have legal immunity. Now let's see if the Republican controlled Supreme Court will do something about that.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I hear now and again how Trump leads in some polls. I'd be stunned if he actually won the republican nomination. It seems well nigh impossible given all that's happened during and after Trump's presidency. Do I have that right? Or is there a chance he could win the nomination and actually run for president again?