Sensible Gun Safety

[Farfromgeneva]

This is a fully religious viewpoint that rejects biochemistry in human beings

Not following you on the religious viewpoint comment....or even how you connected the two. The entire conversation is about hard crime and Guns....I even spelled that out, I am guessing you did not read all of what I wrote. No clue what your point is about your friend....again, you lost me

How do know that increasing incarceration isn’t changing people for the worse. Again, we need to do a better job of investing in our youth. I am a big believer in mandatory social or military service for HS grads with no plan for life after HS. A lot of people end up in the system because of poor choices and lack of opportunities….not because they are bad people. Many ultimately become the hardened criminals you keep ranting about…..I am going to give you a “clue” as to why I believe our system needs improvement…..we have a lot of people in jail that don’t belong there and we have a lot of people on the streets that should be in jail. Do you disagree?….you BAPAB….

I know b/c the current system is NOT working, where they know it's NBD and a badge of honor to say I served time with their cohort. So it tells me, we did not serve them well while incarcerated...they need more time and attention to the why they are there in the first place; mental health therapy. So if you want to throw money at something....throw it at mental health for those in prison.

Yes, I agree. And they would not view themselves as hardened criminals if they are receiving value for their time served and understand 'the why' they were there in the first place.

Consider SOF members in the military by comparison. Many of them entered the military with similar trauma, little direction, behavioral issues as youth, then experience even more trauma while Operators, coupled with CTE, TBI, PTSD, and prescription drug addictions etc....and then never talk about all mental health struggles within their own community b/c it shows weakness (similar to inner city demo) Only difference.....these men seldom commit crimes and yet have the highest suicide rates. Sure, two different demographics...one commits crime and takes other peoples lives for money and drugs, and the other takes their own life. And the fix......mental health for both work, and often finding purpose in Faith and serving others i the community.

No idea what BAPAB means.

Here’s a movie you might enjoy (not sarcasm on this one you won’t open it and find my sequel to the RayJay/KK seminal movie)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harsh_Times_(film)

[youthathletics]

One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp

I'm not saying lock them all up and throw away the key. There are a number of very bad actors that should be locked up for a very long time. I gave the example of Arthur Shawcross. I'm sure your very familiar with Artie. He served 16 years for murdering one young person and in reality was never charged in another murder of a young child. Was 16 years a fair sentence?? When he was paroled for being such a model prisoner they secretly and unknowing to law enforcement relocated him to Rochester. The rest of the story is pure Artie. Is Artie the exception to the rule? Locally where I live there have been a plethora of violent crimes allegedly committed by criminals recently released from prison. A tiger can't change its stripes. Career criminals will most always resort back to what they do best.

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

The last time I remember there pilgrim Timothy McVeigh was executed by the federal government for his crimes. Apparently you forgot that simple fact? Arthur Shawcross murdered 2 young children in Watertown in the early 70s. He was released after 16 years for being a model prisoner. He then chose to murder prostitutes in the Rochester area for quite awhile. He murdered 11 prostitutes before the model prisoner he was was finally caught and sent to prison where he died. Just thought I would catch you up to speed since you are so totally clueless. I'm glad to help you out there pilgrim.

Arthur was hardened criminal, that’s why he got worse. He should have been let out even sooner.

[DMac]

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

Never heard anyone who insists this, have only heard mention of it from you.
Plenty of bad apples have served and have been seen as bad apples by their
fellow citizens despite their having served. By the same token many who
were headed down the wrong path, might have had a minor run in or two
with the law, lacked self-discipline, were easily influenced by their friends
to do stupid things, were given waivers and granted the opportunity to serve.
As a recruiter I did this many times and saw a whole different person with
some self-respect, pride, focus, and direction when they returned.
Based on some of the stories you've shared with us here I don't believe I
would've been able to get a waiver through for you, methinks you would
have been rejected.

[Farfromgeneva]

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

Never heard anyone who insists this, have only heard mention of it from you.
Plenty of bad apples have served and have been seen as bad apples by their
fellow citizens despite their having served. By the same token many who
were headed down the wrong path, might have had a minor run in or two
with the law, lacked self-discipline, were easily influenced by their friends
to do stupid things, were given waivers and granted the opportunity to serve.
As a recruiter I did this many times and saw a whole different person with
some self-respect, pride, focus, and direction when they returned.
Based on some of the stories you've shared with us here I don't believe I
would've been able to get a waiver through for you, methinks you would
have been rejected.

Should I respond since you’re stepping in or do you just want to lob things and not have any interaction?

I’m talking to a specific dense as hell audience and tailoring my message to that. You want to have a separate discussion that’s fine but then understand my approach with you may be different.

And if you don’t see that here on these very boards with the common refrain/rebuttal then that only informs me in how your choosing to observe the other acts and behavior on here shaded by your own biases.

Or are you going to go poof again, which you did twice which either told me you felt compelled to have the last word or were sharding yourself while typing.

I would’ve been rejected with a clean record and high academic scores along with partial athletic scholarships and recommendations from clergy and politicians/holders of state and federal seats, amongst others? Maybe that says something about the system given the problems in it today..or maybe you are either taking a rabbit punch shot which I’m not going to lie down for as you might expect like a female victim per Reggie Jackson’s old advice, which I’m sure you get a chuckle at to this day, or you are making broad assumptions which are deeply flawed and telling others you have the answer. You tell me what it is.

You clearly aren’t reading all of what I write but being selective. I don’t care if your not paying attention but then your informing yourself with incomplete information when it’s readily available which is lazy. Meanwhile implying you can read people better than others which is failing you here greatly.

I actually don’t like arguing with you but you step and in talk turd because you think these guys are your friends or are your friends or whatever and it’s nonsense. I agree with more than I disagree with you but I hate clown rabbit punchers and this is what I’m seeing form you directed specifically at me here lately.

For one thing I’ve written about here is my closest cousin who was discharged for having a side weed business while stationed in SD, had a felony from getting shot in the leg while in that side hustle and is one of the best folks who got his right to vote back over time. My only objections with him are his constant guns and cigar Harley posts all…the…time hiring my FB feed. And he needs to get rid of his mullet being in his 60s. Rural guy who couldn’t hack York college for a year before service which led to all that. I’ve held this cousin up here on these very boards in the pst explicitly. Feel free to ignore that when evaluating me however.

[Farfromgeneva]

One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp

I'm not saying lock them all up and throw away the key. There are a number of very bad actors that should be locked up for a very long time. I gave the example of Arthur Shawcross. I'm sure your very familiar with Artie. He served 16 years for murdering one young person and in reality was never charged in another murder of a young child. Was 16 years a fair sentence?? When he was paroled for being such a model prisoner they secretly and unknowing to law enforcement relocated him to Rochester. The rest of the story is pure Artie. Is Artie the exception to the rule? Locally where I live there have been a plethora of violent crimes allegedly committed by criminals recently released from prison. A tiger can't change its stripes. Career criminals will most always resort back to what they do best.

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

The last time I remember there pilgrim Timothy McVeigh was executed by the federal government for his crimes. Apparently you forgot that simple fact? Arthur Shawcross murdered 2 young children in Watertown in the early 70s. He was released after 16 years for being a model prisoner. He then chose to murder prostitutes in the Rochester area for quite awhile. He murdered 11 prostitutes before the model prisoner he was was finally caught and sent to prison where he died. Just thought I would catch you up to speed since you are so totally clueless. I'm glad to help you out there pilgrim.

Arthur was hardened criminal, that’s why he got worse. He should have been let out even sooner.

https://counciloncj.org/from-service-to ... -veterans/

By Ugur Orak, Ph.D.

Introduction
In 2021, there were an estimated 16 million veterans in the United States, with roughly 200,000 additional service members transitioning to civilian life each year.1,2 For most of these individuals, military service is transformative in valuable ways, providing important skills and opportunities. For some, however, the military experience and associated risk factors may lead to adverse life outcomes, including criminal behavior and contact with the criminal justice system. Recent studies show that approximately one-third of veterans report a history of arrest, compared to one-fifth of the non-veteran population.3-5

While this statistic suggests that veterans are more likely to encounter the criminal justice system, it does not necessarily indicate that military service, on its own, increases the likelihood of criminal behavior. Rather, it underlines the importance of investigating the role of military service in criminal offending, including the risk factors that might make veterans particularly susceptible to justice involvement. Determining these factors can inform efforts to identify veterans who have the greatest probability of criminal behavior and help ensure that they receive services and support to reduce that probability, assisting our nation’s veterans and protecting public safety.

This research brief summarizes what is known about the association between military service and criminal justice involvement. It breaks down the factors that might predict criminal behavior among veterans into three categories: veteran characteristics (individual-level risk factors), veteran experiences during or related to military service (service-related risk factors), and veteran experiences following military service (post-service risk factors). While space limitations prevent a discussion of all risk factors, this brief covers those factors that have received the most attention in the existing research, with an acknowledgment that many common risk factors discussed in the criminal justice literature have not been examined in research on justice-involved veterans (e.g., affiliation with antisocial peers).6 The brief then identifies the limitations of previous research and concludes with recommendations for new directions for researchers and policymakers.

[DMac]

When you post idiotic garbage such as what I quoted above you're liable to get some input from me, beyond that I don't find you much worth engaging with.

[cradleandshoot]

One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp

I'm not saying lock them all up and throw away the key. There are a number of very bad actors that should be locked up for a very long time. I gave the example of Arthur Shawcross. I'm sure your very familiar with Artie. He served 16 years for murdering one young person and in reality was never charged in another murder of a young child. Was 16 years a fair sentence?? When he was paroled for being such a model prisoner they secretly and unknowing to law enforcement relocated him to Rochester. The rest of the story is pure Artie. Is Artie the exception to the rule? Locally where I live there have been a plethora of violent crimes allegedly committed by criminals recently released from prison. A tiger can't change its stripes. Career criminals will most always resort back to what they do best.

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

The last time I remember there pilgrim Timothy McVeigh was executed by the federal government for his crimes. Apparently you forgot that simple fact? Arthur Shawcross murdered 2 young children in Watertown in the early 70s. He was released after 16 years for being a model prisoner. He then chose to murder prostitutes in the Rochester area for quite awhile. He murdered 11 prostitutes before the model prisoner he was was finally caught and sent to prison where he died. Just thought I would catch you up to speed since you are so totally clueless. I'm glad to help you out there pilgrim.

Arthur was hardened criminal, that’s why he got worse. He should have been let out even sooner.

It makes on wonder, except for a few folks on this forum, how a child killer only serves 16 years in prison and is anointed a model prisoner and then released anonymously back into the human race. What could possibly go wrong??? I'll bet there is an entire new crop of Artie Shawcrosses out there just looking to outdo the original. In the big scheme of things they are just a bunch of disposable human beings that nobody really cares about and few people outside of family will ever miss. The audacity of some folks out there thinking that people who murder children belong in jail for a very long time. Especially when those child killers become model prisoners...

[Typical Lax Dad]

One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp

I'm not saying lock them all up and throw away the key. There are a number of very bad actors that should be locked up for a very long time. I gave the example of Arthur Shawcross. I'm sure your very familiar with Artie. He served 16 years for murdering one young person and in reality was never charged in another murder of a young child. Was 16 years a fair sentence?? When he was paroled for being such a model prisoner they secretly and unknowing to law enforcement relocated him to Rochester. The rest of the story is pure Artie. Is Artie the exception to the rule? Locally where I live there have been a plethora of violent crimes allegedly committed by criminals recently released from prison. A tiger can't change its stripes. Career criminals will most always resort back to what they do best.

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

The last time I remember there pilgrim Timothy McVeigh was executed by the federal government for his crimes. Apparently you forgot that simple fact? Arthur Shawcross murdered 2 young children in Watertown in the early 70s. He was released after 16 years for being a model prisoner. He then chose to murder prostitutes in the Rochester area for quite awhile. He murdered 11 prostitutes before the model prisoner he was was finally caught and sent to prison where he died. Just thought I would catch you up to speed since you are so totally clueless. I'm glad to help you out there pilgrim.

Arthur was hardened criminal, that’s why he got worse. He should have been let out even sooner.

It makes on wonder, except for a few folks on this forum, how a child killer only serves 16 years in prison and is anointed a model prisoner and then released anonymously back into the human race. What could possibly go wrong??? I'll bet there is an entire new crop of Artie Shawcrosses out there just looking to outdo the original. In the big scheme of things they are just a bunch of disposable human beings that nobody really cares about and few people outside of family will ever miss. The audacity of some folks out there thinking that people who murder children belong in jail for a very long time. Especially when those child killers become model prisoners...

Again, there are plenty of situations where guys should be held longer. The question is whether our system of high incarceration and high crime relative to our peers can be improved or if putting more people in jail longer addresses the problem…

You PABAP….

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/02/us/los-a ... index.html

[cradleandshoot]

One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp

I'm not saying lock them all up and throw away the key. There are a number of very bad actors that should be locked up for a very long time. I gave the example of Arthur Shawcross. I'm sure your very familiar with Artie. He served 16 years for murdering one young person and in reality was never charged in another murder of a young child. Was 16 years a fair sentence?? When he was paroled for being such a model prisoner they secretly and unknowing to law enforcement relocated him to Rochester. The rest of the story is pure Artie. Is Artie the exception to the rule? Locally where I live there have been a plethora of violent crimes allegedly committed by criminals recently released from prison. A tiger can't change its stripes. Career criminals will most always resort back to what they do best.

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

The last time I remember there pilgrim Timothy McVeigh was executed by the federal government for his crimes. Apparently you forgot that simple fact? Arthur Shawcross murdered 2 young children in Watertown in the early 70s. He was released after 16 years for being a model prisoner. He then chose to murder prostitutes in the Rochester area for quite awhile. He murdered 11 prostitutes before the model prisoner he was was finally caught and sent to prison where he died. Just thought I would catch you up to speed since you are so totally clueless. I'm glad to help you out there pilgrim.

Arthur was hardened criminal, that’s why he got worse. He should have been let out even sooner.

It makes on wonder, except for a few folks on this forum, how a child killer only serves 16 years in prison and is anointed a model prisoner and then released anonymously back into the human race. What could possibly go wrong??? I'll bet there is an entire new crop of Artie Shawcrosses out there just looking to outdo the original. In the big scheme of things they are just a bunch of disposable human beings that nobody really cares about and few people outside of family will ever miss. The audacity of some folks out there thinking that people who murder children belong in jail for a very long time. Especially when those child killers become model prisoners...

Again, there are plenty of situations where guys should be held longer. The question is whether our system of high incarceration and high crime relative to our peers can be improved or if putting more people in jail longer addresses the problem…

You PABAP….

Of course in your astute opinion those instances where dangerous criminals receive lengthy sentences in jail should be few and far between. Unless of course if you were a part of January 6. Then you should lock the mother effers up and throw away the key. So if you sexually abuse a child and are convicted in a court of law do they deserve max sentence or the minimum sentence?? IMO if you put these lowlife degenerates in general population their fellow inmates will be happy to deal out their own special brand of justice. No questions asked. Or we could just let them out of prison early and hope for the best. Especially if they were model prisoners like Arty was. Early release from prison is a crapshoot. Sometimes it works well but more often than not it doesn't.

[Farfromgeneva]

I love examples that are older than me half the time thrown out without any comparison of environment and conditions between the timeframes! Tony the Tiger level ITS GREAT!

[Typical Lax Dad]

One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp

I'm not saying lock them all up and throw away the key. There are a number of very bad actors that should be locked up for a very long time. I gave the example of Arthur Shawcross. I'm sure your very familiar with Artie. He served 16 years for murdering one young person and in reality was never charged in another murder of a young child. Was 16 years a fair sentence?? When he was paroled for being such a model prisoner they secretly and unknowing to law enforcement relocated him to Rochester. The rest of the story is pure Artie. Is Artie the exception to the rule? Locally where I live there have been a plethora of violent crimes allegedly committed by criminals recently released from prison. A tiger can't change its stripes. Career criminals will most always resort back to what they do best.

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

The last time I remember there pilgrim Timothy McVeigh was executed by the federal government for his crimes. Apparently you forgot that simple fact? Arthur Shawcross murdered 2 young children in Watertown in the early 70s. He was released after 16 years for being a model prisoner. He then chose to murder prostitutes in the Rochester area for quite awhile. He murdered 11 prostitutes before the model prisoner he was was finally caught and sent to prison where he died. Just thought I would catch you up to speed since you are so totally clueless. I'm glad to help you out there pilgrim.

Arthur was hardened criminal, that’s why he got worse. He should have been let out even sooner.

It makes on wonder, except for a few folks on this forum, how a child killer only serves 16 years in prison and is anointed a model prisoner and then released anonymously back into the human race. What could possibly go wrong??? I'll bet there is an entire new crop of Artie Shawcrosses out there just looking to outdo the original. In the big scheme of things they are just a bunch of disposable human beings that nobody really cares about and few people outside of family will ever miss. The audacity of some folks out there thinking that people who murder children belong in jail for a very long time. Especially when those child killers become model prisoners...

Again, there are plenty of situations where guys should be held longer. The question is whether our system of high incarceration and high crime relative to our peers can be improved or if putting more people in jail longer addresses the problem…

You PABAP….

Of course in your astute opinion those instances where dangerous criminals receive lengthy sentences in jail should be few and far between. Unless of course if you were a part of January 6. Then you should lock the mother effers up and throw away the key. So if you sexually abuse a child and are convicted in a court of law do they deserve max sentence or the minimum sentence?? IMO if you put these lowlife degenerates in general population their fellow inmates will be happy to deal out their own special brand of justice. No questions asked. Or we could just let them out of prison early and hope for the best. Especially if they were model prisoners like Arty was. Early release from prison is a crapshoot. Sometimes it works well but more often than not it doesn't.

You are developing brain lesions.

[DMac]

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

I really like this line, thanks. Have mentioned several times that I'm not too fond of people saying thank you for your service to me as I think there are too many people who just mouth the words because they think that's what they're supposed to do/say while there's not an ounce of sincerity in those words. Thanks for further confirmation of this.

[MDlaxfan76]

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

I really like this line, thanks. Have mentioned several times that I'm not too fond of people saying thank you for your service to me as I think there are too many people who just mouth the words because they think that's what they're supposed to do/say while there's not an ounce of sincerity in those words. Thanks for further confirmation of this.

I think most people mean it when they "mouth those words" to those who they are acknowledging, typically in uniform actually in service.

But the fact that someone has served in the military is NOT a guarantee of positive character. Are you saying otherwise?

[DMac]

Nope, not at all saying otherwise.
Not so sure about the most part
but plenty for sure. Many, many
of the posters ilk who mouth the
words with nary an ounce of sincerity
too (what they're thinking and what
they're saying are two different things).
JMHO from experience.

[cradleandshoot]

Timothy McVeigh every time you insist any service equals sitting next to god in another life as opposed to taking the entire portfolio of an life into account.

I really like this line, thanks. Have mentioned several times that I'm not too fond of people saying thank you for your service to me as I think there are too many people who just mouth the words because they think that's what they're supposed to do/say while there's not an ounce of sincerity in those words. Thanks for further confirmation of this.

I think most people mean it when they "mouth those words" to those who they are acknowledging, typically in uniform actually in service.

But the fact that someone has served in the military is NOT a guarantee of positive character. Are you saying otherwise?

I can speak for myself. The US Army trained me how to shoot and how to respect my weapon and keep it clean. That responsibility was part of a process that earned me my expert badge with the M16 rifle. Your free to doubt me MD but you would be hard pressed to find a person more responsible about weapons than I am. There is no one on this forum who has put more 5.56 ammunition down range than I have. The 5.56 round was designed specifically to kill people. I'll say it again, the 5.56 caliber of weapons is poor choice for home security and self defense. If your objective is to plink rounds down range and have fun doing so, then knock yourself out. I totally understand the affection shooters have for this weapon. I'm am all for anyone that wants to purchase this type of weapon go through the same extensive training I went through. The US Army didn't hand me a rifle and say go out and shoot young private.

[NattyBohChamps04]

The 5.56 round was designed specifically to kill people. I'll say it again, the 5.56 caliber of weapons is poor choice for home security and self defense.

Your two sentences seem to be at odds with each other.


Why are AR-15 Rifles Ideal for Home Defense?

5.56 and .223 For Home Defense: Is it Right for You?
Ballistically, the right 5.56mm and .223 Rem. cartridges offer superior performance without fear of overpenetration, regardless of where you live.

The Best 5.56 Round for Home Defense and CQB: Diving into the Research

Why An AR-15 For Home Defense Is The Best Choice

The AR-15 Rifle For Home Defense? Absolutely!

[MDlaxfan76]

Nope, not at all saying otherwise.
Not so sure about the most part
but plenty for sure. Many, many
of the posters ilk who mouth the
words with nary an ounce of sincerity
too (what they're thinking and what
they're saying are two different things).
JMHO from experience.

Certainly possible, but I'd always err to assuming positive good will of someone bothering to say it at all.

I don't think we get that said much on here, as it's not particularly relevant to the discussions, though we do have some posters who seem to think that merely having served in the military, or that having done so with some degree of bravery in the face of real danger, does confer some special, immutable character, no matter what the person otherwise has demonstrated in other ways.

It's the demand for that special, unquestioning 'respect' that I think rankles other posters, not any lack of appreciation of whatever service someone has done for others.

[cradleandshoot]

The 5.56 round was designed specifically to kill people. I'll say it again, the 5.56 caliber of weapons is poor choice for home security and self defense.

Your two sentences seem to be at odds with each other.
I'm

Why are AR-15 Rifles Ideal for Home Defense?

5.56 and .223 For Home Defense: Is it Right for You?
Ballistically, the right 5.56mm and .223 Rem. cartridges offer superior performance without fear of overpenetration, regardless of where you live.

The Best 5.56 Round for Home Defense and CQB: Diving into the Research

Why An AR-15 For Home Defense Is The Best Choice

The AR-15 Rifle For Home Defense? Absolutely!

Not at all at odds. I'll try and splain it for you. The maximum effective range of a 5.56 bullet is over 300 meters. That is a greater distance than most of us can see with any certainty. It is a poor choice for this reason. If you plink off 6 rounds at say 10 yards and you miss. Those bullets can travel way far down range than you can see. That is what makes it a poor choice for home defense. My personal choice today is a single shot 410 gauge shotgun. The shells are double aught shot with less lethal plastic pellets. This is for close in personal defense. These are pretty much totally ineffective at over 50 ft. I hope that clears up any confusion you have. If that zombie apocalypse ever becomes reality then all of us will wish we had an AR-15.
The fact that there are AR-15 owners that think the caliber is right for them, that is their personal preference. I would never fire a rifle at any target I didn't have a clear line of sight on up to the maximum effective range of that bullet.
If your target shooting with an AR-15 type weapon you should be shooting on a dedicated range with a properly constructed earthen berm.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The 5.56 round was designed specifically to kill people. I'll say it again, the 5.56 caliber of weapons is poor choice for home security and self defense.

Your two sentences seem to be at odds with each other.


Why are AR-15 Rifles Ideal for Home Defense?

5.56 and .223 For Home Defense: Is it Right for You?
Ballistically, the right 5.56mm and .223 Rem. cartridges offer superior performance without fear of overpenetration, regardless of where you live.

The Best 5.56 Round for Home Defense and CQB: Diving into the Research

Why An AR-15 For Home Defense Is The Best Choice

The AR-15 Rifle For Home Defense? Absolutely!

Not at all at odds. I'll try and splain it for you. The maximum effective range of a 5.56 bullet is over 300 meters. That is a greater distance than most of us can see with any certainty. It is a poor choice for this reason. If you plink off 6 rounds at say 10 yards and you miss. Those bullets can travel way far down range than you can see. That is what makes it a poor choice for home defense. My personal choice today is a single shot 410 gauge shotgun. The shells are double aught shot with less lethal plastic pellets. This is for close in personal defense. These are pretty much totally ineffective at over 50 ft. I hope that clears up any confusion you have. If that zombie apocalypse ever becomes reality then all of us will wish we had an AR-15.
The fact that there are AR-15 owners that think the caliber is right for them, that is their personal preference. I would never fire a rifle at any target I didn't have a clear line of sight on up to the maximum effective range of that bullet.

The smaller caliber is more effective if you can’t shoot straight?