Sensible Gun Safety

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PizzaSnake
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by PizzaSnake »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:42 pm
“Keep “them” in jail longer” won’t change much of anything.
:roll: While we're at it, just give them their gun back when they leave early.... I'm sure there are more people for them to victimize. Maybe if they go in the military or find recovery in religion, you can then blame that, like you did earlier today. Or just dole out about 20k per teen in areas where there is gun violence....will that cover it? What's that cash upfront going to fix...maybe a new set of rims, self-help books, private school?

It's really hard to leave the city and absolve yourself from criminal activity when your focus is making cash with little effort and your value for human life outside immediate family, is essentially zero. They are really just lazy opportunists, that need more time in structured institutions away from the crime riddled comforts from which they grew up.
How have crime rates gone up since the advent of widespread legalized sports betting?

Said it before: this shite is a bad idea.


“Gambling is “getting to be a younger activity”, Ruderman observed. As brains do not typically finish developing until people reach their mid-20s, those placing bets before this point cannot fully process the associated risks, he said. “They’re very susceptible to dopamine, endorphin rushes.”“

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -addiction
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
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youthathletics
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by youthathletics »

PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:42 pm
“Keep “them” in jail longer” won’t change much of anything.
:roll: While we're at it, just give them their gun back when they leave early.... I'm sure there are more people for them to victimize. Maybe if they go in the military or find recovery in religion, you can then blame that, like you did earlier today. Or just dole out about 20k per teen in areas where there is gun violence....will that cover it? What's that cash upfront going to fix...maybe a new set of rims, self-help books, private school?

It's really hard to leave the city and absolve yourself from criminal activity when your focus is making cash with little effort and your value for human life outside immediate family, is essentially zero. They are really just lazy opportunists, that need more time in structured institutions away from the crime riddled comforts from which they grew up.
How have crime rates gone up since the advent of widespread legalized sports betting?

Said it before: this shite is a bad idea.


“Gambling is “getting to be a younger activity”, Ruderman observed. As brains do not typically finish developing until people reach their mid-20s, those placing bets before this point cannot fully process the associated risks, he said. “They’re very susceptible to dopamine, endorphin rushes.”“

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -addiction
Great comparison...gambling is equal to shooting people. :roll:
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:42 pm
“Keep “them” in jail longer” won’t change much of anything.
:roll: While we're at it, just give them their gun back when they leave early.... I'm sure there are more people for them to victimize. Maybe if they go in the military or find recovery in religion, you can then blame that, like you did earlier today. Or just dole out about 20k per teen in areas where there is gun violence....will that cover it? What's that cash upfront going to fix...maybe a new set of rims, self-help books, private school?

It's really hard to leave the city and absolve yourself from criminal activity when your focus is making cash with little effort and your value for human life outside immediate family, is essentially zero. They are really just lazy opportunists, that need more time in structured institutions away from the crime riddled comforts from which they grew up.
Maybe if all prisoners spent more time with the prison chaplain crime would go down. Putting more people in prison longer solves the problem. We incarcerate more people than any other first world country and our low rate of crime reflects the effectiveness of it. We should double down.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:04 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:56 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:42 pm
“Keep “them” in jail longer” won’t change much of anything.
:roll: While we're at it, just give them their gun back when they leave early.... I'm sure there are more people for them to victimize. Maybe if they go in the military or find recovery in religion, you can then blame that, like you did earlier today. Or just dole out about 20k per teen in areas where there is gun violence....will that cover it? What's that cash upfront going to fix...maybe a new set of rims, self-help books, private school?

It's really hard to leave the city and absolve yourself from criminal activity when your focus is making cash with little effort and your value for human life outside immediate family, is essentially zero. They are really just lazy opportunists, that need more time in structured institutions away from the crime riddled comforts from which they grew up.
How have crime rates gone up since the advent of widespread legalized sports betting?

Said it before: this shite is a bad idea.


“Gambling is “getting to be a younger activity”, Ruderman observed. As brains do not typically finish developing until people reach their mid-20s, those placing bets before this point cannot fully process the associated risks, he said. “They’re very susceptible to dopamine, endorphin rushes.”“

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -addiction
Great comparison...gambling is equal to shooting people. :roll:
Shooting people is the only crime we need to worry about…. This article is stupid. Lock them up longer.

https://dbhdd.georgia.gov/sites/dbhdd.g ... _09_11.pdf
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:45 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:42 pm Thoughts? When it comes to perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior, oftentimes committed with illegal firearms - receiving "kid glove" treatment after arrest makes me shake my head in wonderment. I think most of us grew up having no problem whatsoever with someone convicted of horrific violent criminal acts receiving profoundly long "you're goddam right it is harsh" corrective sentences. Rehabilitation chances slim. Recidivism upon release highly likely. It breaks my heart when the inevitable headlines of "Violent criminal released on (you choose: bail, early, parole) arrested after (you choose: raping, robbing, murdering) again.

Looks like Baltimore is in recovery mode after an extended debacle of plea bargaining madness, obscene bail reform, early release insanity, and magical wishful thinking that the worst of the worst "criminals won't re-criminal".

Voted out:
https://www.mdpolicy.org/research/detai ... ee-to-kill
Perhaps some Maryland posters hereabouts can weigh in on how Ms. Mosby - who was just convicted of perjury by the US Attorney's Office in Maryland - got elected in the first place.

Voted in:
Ivan Bates. Writer Dan Rodricks in The Baltimore Sun a few days ago caught up with Mr. Bates: Monday morning the Baltimore Police Department updated its year-over-year count of homicides and nonfatal shootings, reporting 240 people killed by others, 61 fewer than at the same point last year. In that time, 584 people were wounded by gunfire, 58 fewer than in 2022. That’s still too much death and pain. But, for a city that suffered through eight straight years of 300-plus homicides, ending 2023 with numbers south of that depressing mark must be regarded as a sign of progress in the city’s varied efforts to prevent violence.

Voters elected a new chief prosecutor last year, and Ivan Bates became Baltimore State’s Attorney on Jan. 3, succeeding Marilyn Mosby, whose two terms were marked by the high homicide counts. In Bates’ first year, which still has another month left in it, the State’s Attorney’s Office has recorded 125 guilty verdicts or pleas in homicide cases against 17 acquittals and three dismissals. That’s significantly ahead of the total for 2022, when there were 93 guilty verdicts or pleas in homicide cases. In an interview last week — edited here for length and clarity — I asked Bates about his first year in office.

What was the staff situation like when you took over?

I’d have to say, for a word to describe the office when I got here, they were demoralized. There were people who were beaten down, people who didn’t feel heard, people who didn’t want to be here, people who hated their jobs. They did the jobs, but they didn’t feel appreciated. I had homicide prosecutors carrying almost 30 open murder [cases] and 20 open investigations. They were working almost seven days a week.

You must have lost some people. That happens with every turnover.

We lost some. But we didn’t come in firing people. The senior people we wanted to keep, we were able to keep. … The most important speech that I’ve made wasn’t the speech that any television camera or community group saw. It was a speech I made in January inside Courtroom 400 to the people in the office: Why they needed to stay, why I wanted them to stay. But we lost some people. When I took over, there were about 134 lawyers. We’ve hired almost 60. Realistically, we need 220. We can go to City Hall to ask for additional [prosecutors], but we’re not in a position to do that until we’re able to do our job first.

It looks like you’ve had a good start, with increased convictions. The drop in homicides looks promising.

We’re doing better than last year. We know 125 people were found guilty of murder. In Baltimore, that’s a big number of people who are going to get 30 years to life [in prison]. Those are the individuals that were doing some sort of violence to someone and now are taken off the street.

Besides hiring and training new staff, what were your biggest challenges of the year?

To decrease crime, it’s never a “me,” it’s always a “we.” I had to re-establish the relationship with the Baltimore Police Department.

How did you do that?

It was going over there, sitting down, addressing the [police union]. I went to a roll call in the Central District. I have to have a real relationship with the police commissioner. We go to lunch every month and we have an executive meeting with the BPD, and we talk about the issues that we see and what’s going on. … And truly, to me, the biggest relationship I had to get was with the U.S. Attorney, Erek Barron.

What was the status of that relationship, given that the feds had indicted your predecessor on perjury charges?

Unfortunately, there was no relationship. And, to be honest, I think it is the most important relationship for us because they’re the hammer. … When I was a defense attorney, I knew my clients [in gun cases] were terrified of the U.S. Attorney’s Office. The guys who are really doing the shooting and the killings are a select group. They’re the trigger pullers, the people who are inflicting crime on so many of the citizens. If the police are going out and arresting them, we need to figure out a way to hold them accountable. We re-established the relationship with the U.S. Attorney’s Office so that they look at every single handgun case that the city has. We sit down at least once a month to decide who can potentially be prosecuted over there — that wasn’t happening anymore — and that means, for the most violent trigger pullers, we’re not worried about [prosecuting] you in the state court because it’s not about “me” needing to convict you. It’s about “we,” and the system holding you accountable.

Would you say this is already having some effect?

It’s definitely had a major effect because those individuals aren’t back on the street to pull the triggers to shoot and kill other people. … My homicide unit has 125 [guilty verdicts]. My gun unit has 219 guilty verdicts thus far. Those are the units that had prosecutors in them that were just holding on, but didn’t have the resources over the past two or three years. They were the prosecutors that my speech in Courtroom 400 needed to resonate with because we needed them to be able to hold the office up until reinforcements are [trained] and ready.
END ARTICLE

Sounds like Baltimore, where criminal violence and criminal gun violence are a cancer, is getting some much needed leadership.

Another step in what appears to be a good direction - Community based involvement in criminal justice system accountability:
https://baltimorewitness.org/

I wonder if perhaps the Bloomberg/Everytown Wing at Johns Hopkins can perhaps do MORE research on how criminal gun violence can be mitigated in our most needy communities, and LESS activist "Policy based evidence making" to create new avenues of attack on the rights of law abiding gun owners. Those darn pesky 99.99% of citizens who responsibly own firearms and aren't criminals. Just a thought for a slow Friday.
All this says to me is that a little more money spent on the front end would provide a societal benefit on the backend. You ain’t putting that 18 year old toothpaste back in the tube. “Keep “them” in jail longer” won’t change much of anything.
To waffle's question about Mosby, she was part of a machine politics that was dominant for awhile, and on the surface looked highly attractive to many...but corrupt as all get out, and really bad prosecutor, terrible manager of people.

Took awhile, but Baltimore finally got rid of her...I'm not a resident of the City but supported, along with many friends both in city and outside, the candidacy of Bates. He's a huge improvement.

But I think there's a strong sense in the current leadership that good prosecution and policing practices, while absolutely necessary, are not sufficient to address all of the problem of crime. Gotta be a multi-faceted approach, and the most important is to address ALL of the social determinants of health, including, perhaps especially, for the most poor...and that's not an overnight solution, but it IS a process that CAN gain community trust that had been shattered by horrendously corrupt and racist policing practices and then inept prosecution practices. Takes time. And, frankly, way more money than Baltimore's tax base could handle. It's going to need significant state and federal support.

I'm not sure the Mayor really has what it takes, but he's also world's better than his predecessor...

HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
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WaffleTwineFaceoff
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by WaffleTwineFaceoff »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. John Stuart Mill On Liberty 1859
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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youthathletics
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:24 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
You can’t synthesize information…..you think doing a better job means more people in jail and more prison time? That’s your take?
Last edited by Typical Lax Dad on Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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youthathletics
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:24 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
You can’t synthesize information.
Rather challenging when there is double speak...
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32889
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:37 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:24 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
You can’t synthesize information.
Rather challenging when there is double speak...
What is double speak? I am on record for saying part of the problem with law enforcement is lack of quality training. You believe all jurisdictions have the same training? That’s your take?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
+1
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23267
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Farfromgeneva »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:42 pm
“Keep “them” in jail longer” won’t change much of anything.
:roll: While we're at it, just give them their gun back when they leave early.... I'm sure there are more people for them to victimize. Maybe if they go in the military or find recovery in religion, you can then blame that, like you did earlier today. Or just dole out about 20k per teen in areas where there is gun violence....will that cover it? What's that cash upfront going to fix...maybe a new set of rims, self-help books, private school?

It's really hard to leave the city and absolve yourself from criminal activity when your focus is making cash with little effort and your value for human life outside immediate family, is essentially zero. They are really just lazy opportunists, that need more time in structured institutions away from the crime riddled comforts from which they grew up.
That’s fairly parochial and not very Liberty oriented
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23267
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:11 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:42 pm
“Keep “them” in jail longer” won’t change much of anything.
:roll: While we're at it, just give them their gun back when they leave early.... I'm sure there are more people for them to victimize. Maybe if they go in the military or find recovery in religion, you can then blame that, like you did earlier today. Or just dole out about 20k per teen in areas where there is gun violence....will that cover it? What's that cash upfront going to fix...maybe a new set of rims, self-help books, private school?

It's really hard to leave the city and absolve yourself from criminal activity when your focus is making cash with little effort and your value for human life outside immediate family, is essentially zero. They are really just lazy opportunists, that need more time in structured institutions away from the crime riddled comforts from which they grew up.
Maybe if all prisoners spent more time with the prison chaplain crime would go down. Putting more people in prison longer solves the problem. We incarcerate more people than any other first world country and our low rate of crime reflects the effectiveness of it. We should double down.
https://youtu.be/79fzeNUqQbQ?si=LOHvMoqDW43Lp1Cs
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 15205
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by youthathletics »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:37 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:24 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
You can’t synthesize information.
Rather challenging when there is double speak...
What is double speak? I am on record for saying part of the problem with law enforcement is lack of quality training. You believe all jurisdictions have the same training? That’s your take?
You also bolded the portion about DA's and Prosecutors (I underlined it) as part of your 'good post' comment, to which you did not address in your latest rebuttal. That, is the double speak to which I am referring, as you earlier argued serving more time in jail will do very little.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 32889
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:30 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:37 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:24 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
You can’t synthesize information.
Rather challenging when there is double speak...
What is double speak? I am on record for saying part of the problem with law enforcement is lack of quality training. You believe all jurisdictions have the same training? That’s your take?
You also bolded the portion about DA's and Prosecutors (I underlined it) as part of your 'good post' comment, to which you did not address in your latest rebuttal. That, is the double speak to which I am referring, as you earlier argued serving more time in jail will do very little.
I am not sure more time in jail for many criminals will do any good versus working on a solution to create more opportunities and therefore reducing the population of criminals. Many people end up there for a variety of reasons. Locking more than people up for longer periods of times don’t seem to be working. There is a place for conviction without the chance of parole but it seems as though the crux of the problem begins long before that heinous crime is committed. Use the god given intellect that you have to think. For many many crimes, more time in jail is probably counter productive. You know many former “felons”?
“You lucky I ain’t read wretched yet!”
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 14543
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by cradleandshoot »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:24 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:30 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:37 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:24 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
You can’t synthesize information.
Rather challenging when there is double speak...
What is double speak? I am on record for saying part of the problem with law enforcement is lack of quality training. You believe all jurisdictions have the same training? That’s your take?
You also bolded the portion about DA's and Prosecutors (I underlined it) as part of your 'good post' comment, to which you did not address in your latest rebuttal. That, is the double speak to which I am referring, as you earlier argued serving more time in jail will do very little.
I am not sure more time in jail for many criminals will do any good versus working on a solution to create more opportunities and therefore reducing the population of criminals. Many people end up there for a variety of reasons. Locking more than people up for longer periods of times don’t seem to be working. There is a place for conviction without the chance of parole but it seems as though the crux of the problem begins long before that heinous crime is committed. Use the god given intellect that you have to think. For many many crimes, more time in jail is probably counter productive. You know many former “felons”?
You sound even more stupid than you normally do. So why don't we just close all of the prisons and release every god damn one of them?? Will that float your boat there Skippy? After all to paraphrase Father Flanagan there is no such thing as a bad boy. Every hardcore criminal in your eyes is Whitey Marsh just waiting for someone to believe in him. :roll: :roll: This may come as a stunning revelation to your sensitive nature but there are actually a lot of bad guys out there that have earned their life in prison with no parole sentence. You don't get LIPWNP for singing too loud in the church choir on Sunday.You already knew that though didn't you? :roll:
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
DMac
Posts: 9061
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by DMac »

One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 14543
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Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by cradleandshoot »

DMac wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:12 am One man's opinion who has a few years experience, cradle. As much as we like to "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the US, prison doesn't work, and we have a whole lot of years of experience that proves that. As the long time leaders in the world of incarcerating people one would think we'd have enough experience to come up with a system that actually does some good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r ... &FORM=VIRE
Most people are in jail for drugs but lock 'em up and throw away the key god dammit!!!!! I'd say legalize all drugs and stop making criminals out of these people....educate, rehabilitate. Nope, lock 'em up in a cage, put 'em in an environment that is nothing but detrimental to making them productive citizens. That makes sense, eh?
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp
I'm not saying lock them all up and throw away the key. There are a number of very bad actors that should be locked up for a very long time. I gave the example of Arthur Shawcross. I'm sure your very familiar with Artie. He served 16 years for murdering one young person and in reality was never charged in another murder of a young child. Was 16 years a fair sentence?? When he was paroled for being such a model prisoner they secretly and unknowing to law enforcement relocated him to Rochester. The rest of the story is pure Artie. Is Artie the exception to the rule? Locally where I live there have been a plethora of violent crimes allegedly committed by criminals recently released from prison. A tiger can't change its stripes. Career criminals will most always resort back to what they do best.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23267
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Sensible Gun Safety

Post by Farfromgeneva »

youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 7:30 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:17 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:37 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:33 pm
youthathletics wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:24 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:50 pm
WaffleTwineFaceoff wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:18 pm HOWEVER, I'm not sure what "perpetrators of the worst of the worse violent criminal behavior" means on the "Sensible Gun Safety" thread. Surely that's not to say that gun murders in poor urban neighborhoods are worse than mass shootings wherever they happen? I may have misunderstood, but I'm always wondering what someone is saying when they point to crime in poor urban, typically formerly redlined neighborhoods and don't point to crimes committed by others...If that wasn't the intent, and we're just talking about how murder and rape get treated in any jurisdiction, cool...Are rapes and murders prosecuted more forcefully in say Louisiana when the perp is white? I don't know the answer, but it's a reasonable question given the high rate of homicides in Louisiana...not just New Orleans, all of Louisiana...
Appreciate your thoughtful reply. And goodness no, my intent regarding "worst of worse" spurred by seeing the Baltimore example/article posted, and following that to the making of my earlier post, wasn't intended as a broad stroke or condemnation - but rather a granular case study that seemed to have positive possibilities inherent. I am race/color/gender/creed blind when it comes to violent criminal perpetrators, from rural to inner city. No intent other than "really bad criminals who have been caught doing really bad things" need really meaningful sentencing deterrents. I remember that example years ago about that Stanford swimmer kid who raped that girl and the judge was one of those "We don't want to ruin this fine white man's life over an indiscretion" kind of guy, who was if I recall correctly show to have sentenced a young black man for the same offense with a "We need to lock you up and throw away the key you irredeemable monster" kind of sentence.

A big part of all of this points to reforms such as this threads last day or two of posts, and moving through the system with policing the police (who's unions protect bad apples like the Catholic church did with bad priests), to training law enforcement, to holding our DA's/prosecutors to task for doing or not their jobs well - as gatekeepers of the fork in the road where those who need help and have a chance to be off-ramped toward productive lives - which as a society we all know is an excellent investment - are placed on that path, while the monsters in our midst from hickville to Chicago's south side, are placed forcefully on their earned path to - after a jury of their peers weighs in - serious consequences which is an investment in all of our safety. Judges need oversight with sentencing. Parole boards need oversight. And once someone has completed their debt to society, we do need to do better at having ways they can assimilate and prove they have been rehabilitated.

The cost, commitment, cooperation politically, and consistency needed to begin to make real progress is daunting. And it seems we're stuck with a few hot button issues that keep us divided and take the focus away from any chance for real dialogue and change.
Good post.
How is it you call this a great post (in BOLD), and yet, want less time in jail....if DA's and Prosecutors do their job (and win) to the letter of the law without compromise to the Defense and plea deals reducing the actual charge....the criminals are in jail are far longer. That is against your beliefs just moments ago.
You can’t synthesize information.
Rather challenging when there is double speak...
What is double speak? I am on record for saying part of the problem with law enforcement is lack of quality training. You believe all jurisdictions have the same training? That’s your take?
You also bolded the portion about DA's and Prosecutors (I underlined it) as part of your 'good post' comment, to which you did not address in your latest rebuttal. That, is the double speak to which I am referring, as you earlier argued serving more time in jail will do very little.
Prosecutors and DAs job description isn’t merely or even at all codified as “to the full extent of the law”, especially DAs. They are managing their piece of a justice system with broader responsibilities which has to take a bigger picture into account than “go for max sentence and never cut a deal” which is what you seem to be saying. Fact is they ask for more knowing how ineffective they often are despite having the force and resources of the entire govt behind them and so it becomes a poker game where the mandate gets lost. In other words they ask for worse sentences knowing they’ll get cut back often not because they think it’s right.

“Justice system” and “no compromise” are incongruous as absolutes.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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